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been on Betfair for around ten years and iv never seen liquidity so bad if Betfair was a job I would be taking a pay cut every year automation and premium charge has destroyed what once was a great product try putting even a monkey on a big price horse in the run on override say 28s you'll end up getting matched at an average of even money was speaking to two people who are full time on here and they are putting the cue in the rack at the end of the flat season am thinking about doing the same it's becoming dire
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liquidity is definitely down . betfair know this too . they say all other markets are growing except for horse racing .
what would you do to improve it ? how do you think premium charge affects liquidity genuine questions, not taking the p!ss |
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Loads of us stopped after the PC. Problem is because other markets have grown they think the PC was a wise move but actually it's hindered growth, people at the top aren't very smart.
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games Finnish, turn the light off Willie
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ι ( ¯ ö¯)ﾉ
Margins are naturally getting tighter..so if expectation remains stupidly overblown, it can only lead to disappointment. Money is more thinly spread..but this increases volatility(+ & -)..stakes need to be adapted accordingly. And people need to stop accusing betfair of "not being very smart". They know exactly what they're doing to squeeze the max amount of profits from the collective. Unlike those who sit like one-dimensional bots at their desk and expect everything to remain the same forever, these people make/adapt/get creative to the changes around them. |
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the problem with i/r for most is level playing field, picture speeds have taken too long to improve with the technology available now there should be no excuses, the reliability of Betfair live video if the there was a delay in picture speeds or a problem with live Betfair would notify people on the forum a few yrs ago now there couldn't give two hoops, and if your new to Betfair why would you bother with i/r on horses the odds are heavily stacked against you Christmas time the pictures were the fastest iv ever seen everybody had a fair crack at the whip but it didt last long and if they did make it a level playing field it would kill off the people paying 40% commission so imo it will never be a level playing field and will continue to die year in year out.
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ive told my acc manager on numerous occasions the fact bf are stopping people betting pre event becos of a PC charge is probably the most embarrassing business decision ive ever came across..
simply mind boggling. |
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and the madness in that is that you may be a winner say IR on horses, yet PC on that will stop you betting pre race on EVERYTHING else, even tho you could be a lifetime loser on pre event horses, footie, etc, just sends them punts to the opposition ...
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they are of the opinion that PC is not detrimental to the exchange/horse racing .
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Pre-event still churning plenty. PC was introduced to allow them to get their share. No PC simply gives more adv to those already milking an adv. They obv have the cistern finely balanced to a satisfactory point. If the day comes when they need to change something(to boost dying profits) you can be sure they will.
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how is RTV/SSR/LV an advantage ?
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why would anyone play pre event snipey whilst having to give away 20/40%?
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Those playing more fairly are "conveniently" caught in the trap. Nobody has to play pre-event on here. With no PC, why is purple not stacked with all these pre-event heavy backers/layers monies?
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i associate with dozens of pro punters..i dont know any who use bf for pre event..madness,who would?
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It would be giving with one hand and taking 2 from the other, in your favour. On their terms it's giving with 1 hand and taking back 1+¾
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PC gained per week v commission lost on pre event.
would like to know. |
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Angie, you should apply to join their team. They'd really appreciate having a superior brain to iron out all their flaws, show them exactly where they're going wrong, and to guide them out of their current mire..to propel them back into their riches..
Shafty, they already know all the answers. Which is why it is the way it is. If you think these people are doing their sums and then going against what the math is telling them.......... U need sectioned. |
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it has had a massive impact, they are clueless if they truly believe otherwise
that may be true AR . i'm certainly not in favour of PC, before i paid it , and definitely not now . without seeing any figures it's hard to converse with them on a fair basis as they can say the usual lines and it's hard to disprove . |
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their bot ensues a profit from every click.
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It's September the Golden Goose has flown, wait till March when it will return
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sniper I don't know anything about this, but if you think these geniuses have it all figured out i'll refer you to lehman brothers and leave it at that.
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Course I don't, Angie. And neither do betfair. We're all dummies bar those who attack a thriving business. Who is next for criticism? Zuckerberg? Let's all start accusing him of being clueless when it comes to technology..
 Charlty, you're being ridiculous by comparing the 2. betfair's profits are built on commission/margin. It's expenditure can't possibly exceed its intake. They only way they could go bust would be if they started gambling. If you think that will ever happen, you're a fool. |
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Said it b4 and will say it again....
PC charge wasnt introduced to hit "single" players but more for other businesses that started raping and pillaging the exchange and continue to do so to this day simples   |
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lehman quants did sums. the math told them something. their managers went against what the math told them. qed
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Difference is, betfair's "mistakes" would at worst be marginal either way. It's all about balance. Whatever they generously give somewhere, they lose somewhere else. They're clearly happy with their intake from the current structure. As soon as they're not, we'll see some sort of shift..with obv aims to improve it.
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Premium Charge of course costs them volume. My 5 year plan is built around the charge and will eventually lead to me moving away from betfair once I get to a certain P&L position. It also impacts the way I trade now.
I'm sure they have calculated that at least the short term profit upside from the charge more than compensates for lost profit from lower volume. Whether they have considered the very long term impact I'm not so sure as business these days is about a quick return to the share holder and little interest in anything more than 5 years away. |
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I agree with you on the quick returns. But again, it was either them getting those quick returns, or losing plenty to a few of the larger players that were taking money out of the cistern at an alarming rate. It's similar to a poker table, where the host eats up the rake. All that happened here was bf decided to increase its rake. For instead of watching a few larger players swallowing pie after pie, weakening the ecocistern as each chunk is removed, they at least guaranteed to be getting a nice chunk of that for themselves.
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eg corals ladbrokes baldy willy hill et al
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If people are winning less it's not because of PC.
PC payers are winners and if any decide to leave it would result in greater profits for the other winners. |
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im considering going back on the tools..
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I've just been on the tools at one place since May. Long time since I did much and I've quite enjoyed it tbf, but it's early starts and the routine seems relentless, I don't know how people live like that for poor wages.
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do army & navy shops still do ballys for a quid?
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Rico - back to Brough Park where you can’t lews
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Short termist principles, build up interest then ride it till it's legs fall off
Bf showed signs of attempting to keep the beast on it's feet last year with the PC trial of the first £500 waiver a week. It couldnt be rolled over or anything like that or offset against lifetime profit, it just meant you kept a bit more of your own winnings. They should do it on a tier scale as they do with the calculation of wins to losses to determine PC bracket. For those who churn lots, make hardly anything above minimum wage due to PC it would encourage them to continue and not quit....which is seemingly what has been happening in the slow death knock of the exchange. |
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Bots and the PC have gradually been allowed to ruin the founding principles of the Exchange.
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did they stop the trial then
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I dont know what the planning was tom, I've since heard rumours that they have done it at other times.
But they do it over a 3 month period with an end date I wonder if they do it as standard to certain people who have cut their liabilities down to how they used to bet to try and encourage them to go back to what they were doing as I was risking more then tightened up before I got the offer |