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23 Jul 19
09:54
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Date Joined:
10 Jan 07
I don't think I have seen the phrase used for decades. I wonder if some of the under-40s on here ( if there are any ) even know the term.
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Replies: 65
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Used to be under every bookmakers sign, or on a sign dangling by the window, which you couldn't see through!
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A misnomer now, but then so is bookmaker.
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Very True!
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On my birth certificate it states my fathers occupation as a Commission Agents Clerk rather than just a bookmakers clerk on course.
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Betting is supposed to be about risk. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. That used to apply to both punter and “turf accountant”.
Today’s off course Bookmakers have decided that they must never lose, and winning is a divine right. They have been allowed to control FAR too much in both horse racing and greyhound racing and, in my opinion, both sports have suffered because of it.. |
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Oh yes. Commission agent is even more archaic ! The term bookmaker had pejorative overtones (has again now)so I think a number of more respectable terms were tried.
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dick pickering ,,, commision agent,,, just those 4 words take me back to a different world , cheers
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Turf Accountant - Think it may have been seen as some sort of way of legitimising their presence on the High Street - alongside Solicitors, Estate Agents, and regular Accountants.
- following the legalisation of 'Betting Shops' in the early 1960s 'Bookies' were not allowed 'over-advertise' their presence - and, as you say, stewarts - people were not allowed to be able to see inside a Betting Shop from the street. |
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FOBTs and other guaranteed win products (eg Virtuals) “happened”.
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I'm under 40 and know the term my bets were placed at a local Independent Turf Accountants (R O'Farrell) by my old man in my Primary School years,the same shop was then taken over by another independent WBM bookmakers then Reuben Page then Coral before closing,can remember the R'O'Farrell Turf Accountant slips and shop sign.
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denzil went round to o'farrell's to collect his winnings then into the boozer for a few pints on his way home from primary school ... them were the days
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Anyone use the Scottish cash postal Bookies before shops were legalised ? You could also post your credit account bets to English Bookies.
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Rather than being archaic the term accountant is more appropriate than it has ever been to "layers",only the turf has disappeared,even Bookmaker is a misnomer to the big firms.
Btw oldgit......I had a fair few postal bets with Freddie Williams in the 80s and most bets were by post when overseas so consequently ante post although if I could find a hotel with a direct International line it helped. |
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I went to work in London when I was 19 and my father was a postman in Edinburgh. One of the sorters said to him that I was getting a lot of registered letters from Bookies.
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 At Oldgit. Brilliant! Kids today eh, don't know how lucky they are with their privacy! |
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Nosy tw@t
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Had a browse through the bookie ads in some of my early annuals, and even as far back as 1971, none of them used the term turf accountants. I did find an ad for a firm I'd never heard of, a north east bookie called Wanless and Pallister - anybody remember them?. And also a real throwback, one for the Track Betting Agency (TBA) who were commission agents that would place your bets at 'SP or Tote odds'.
The shop I worked in as the Saturday boardboy around 1963/64, that was definitely a 'turf accountant' - Bruces in Friern Barnet, North London. Which remarkably was still there the last time I was in the area a few years ago, although it's moved three doors along from the original site next to the pub. |
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Ah Bruces in Friern Barnet...remember it well. Used to visit my mum who lived next to Friary Park at the time. On the walk from New Southgate station always used to pop in to
said shop. |
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its called evolution they started off with big balls cahonas which over time shrivelled, shrunk and morphed into big ****S
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pus
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seys
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Remember Wanless & Pallister adverts Anorak,may have seen them in the HIT books my Dad always got?
Remember as a 13 year old we had a class with the careers master,had to fill a form in and the main question was what you wanted to be and half jokingly put "Turf accountant" which I remember the master finding very amusing. The rest is history as they say. |
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well anorak , im minded to ask you to tell me more about your Annuals,,, i got topper and beezer annuals for xmas , it seems you got more interesting stuff
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Fully agree with Aladdin Sane’s post,SS.
RE Dettori And Royal Ascot,the firms were in a panic the following day — like,he was gonna have the first four again ? Don’t think so. |
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ribero1:
I had an account with Wanless and Pallister at one time. Did they not go out of business or get taken over. |
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Looks like they were formed in 1960 - and taken over by Corals, at some time - Gala Coral Secretaries became Director in 2000 - Dissolved in 2014
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They have regrouped, and renamed 'forensic' Turf Accountants eg Ladcrookes/ok koral, billies, ***way, boils, etc.
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Think its been mentioned before but remember plenty of Guntrip adverts from that era.
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I go back before betting shops when you only had ‘bookies runners’.
They were illegal, so the “runner” was either down a side alley or in the case of a factory it would be a person who worked there. You wrote your bet out on a slip and the ‘runner’ would put it into a large leather purse with a time lock on it. Only people who had bank accounts could bet with ‘Turf Accountants” and that was usually just an office above a shop in the high road. Other than that it was ‘postal betting’ whereby you had to have the envelope time-stamped and recorded delivery at the Post Office. You can imagine the scams that went on there. One firm I remember was a Scottish firm called McLauchlan’s- anyone remember them? My wife worked in one of the early betting shops, John Crosby’s, in Wood St Walthamstow (glamour pulled the punters in ). If anyone swore the manager would ask them to leave the shop. How times have changed.One firm I remember was a Scottish firm called McLauchlan’s- anyone remember them? |
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You just put them in the pillar box. There was no need to go to the post office. The P.O was efficient in those days with at least six collections a day and letters were postmarked within 45 minutes. I could post one for the noon collection with my first bets of the day and get a later one in the post for the 3pm collection.
I was also fortunate to have a Bookies daughter work at the company and would give her bets that she took home at lunch time and would phone others home to her Mum during the afternoon. |
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Another Edinburgh postal one was J. Johns.They used to have a full page ad on the back page of racing publications.
I still have a McLauchlan’s ready reckoner that is no good now as it was Pounds, shillings and pence. |
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Oldgit1,
You are right about the pillar box, that jogged my memory, and it was in the Post Office time-stamping where there was always one trying to beat the system. Two shillings and sixpence Each Way. = Dollar |
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harrysandwich.
Used to bet with PTS ( Postal Turf / Tote ? Services ) in the early 70's. Wrote your slip out and had to post before 10am on the day of the race . I think they were taken over by Corals ? |
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Remember being sent to post my dads bets to McLaughlin,although a Scottish name I seem to remember the envelopes were addressed to hayling island,Portsmouth area.
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Anyone remember "GREYFORM" they used to do the card for Hackney on a Saturday morning? My local independant shop barred it as it was too good!
A typical comment, "Trap 5, Curryhills Boy, if it started yesterday it might make the frame today"! |
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One betting shop or turf accountant I very much remember in the 1960s was Morry Israel's in Aldgate East London. This shop would never have less than 50 people in during racing hours and every so often the manager would climb onto the board markers platform and shout "I'll Lay 7/4 this favourite" when the blower was calling 6/4. Different world altogether.
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Ribero.
I had a Guntrips account for many years but stopped using it when they were taken over by Sunderlands. Very friendly lady telephonists and handwritten weekly statements. If you Google Big Mac did an online feature on them. |