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James Doyle
James Doyle
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well that really is history!!
but watch the 2017 derby again https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVBe5fc9k7g you will see cracksman isn't "close to the pace", he is racing nearer midfield early and here is SRs article https://www.timeform.com/horse-racing/features/sectionals/sectional-timing-debrief-investec-derby-festival-462017 not upgrading cracksman as he didn't race close to the pace |
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gj...for sure his hand was forced to some extent with the draw, field size etc
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he was closer than those than those that beat him!
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No question wonder SOC is the best.....sadly fate worked against her
 unfortunately these days you don’t get remembered ‘properly’ like Dancing Brave either  |
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But it would be wrong to imagine that Wings of Eagles was greatly flattered.
I suppose the article can be interpreted in different ways, if you take the above quote for example, you could interpret that as the hold up horses weren't at an advantage. And Wings Of Eagles failed to confirm the form with Cracksman at the Curragh (some may say that was cuz he was injured, but not sure I buy that seeing as he got so close). |
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There as been quite a few "head Waiters" in my time. e.g. J.Spencer. When it comes off great ride by the jockey, when like in the "Arc" beaten a neck Doyle to far back. You cant blame the horse, can't blame the trainer. Got away with it in Ireland, but not this time.Mrs Haggis very, very annoyed with the ride Doyle gave the horse.
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the figures suggest WOE wasn't greatly flattered relative to the others involved in the finish (cracksman, eminent, COM etc all being much more strongly fancied going into the race)
clearly the o'brien horses who set the pace were disadvantaged but the figures suggest they haven't had much of an impact on the race as the visual impression gives |
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That's not true smartpunter, Mrs Haggas was fine with the ride judging from quotes in the paper. She could only have been annoyed if he'd disobeyed orders, which he did not.
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Agreed George. You cannot blame the jockey. Absolute tosh.
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‘To Smartpunters comment that is’
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doyle is no head waiter
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Definitely not.
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To criticise Doyle on the basis of post-race sectional analysis is bad form imo.
They obviously had a plan to drop in and stuck to it, and that plan wasn't an unreasonable one, given the bad draw and the anticipation of a strong pace from the Ballydoyle mob as that would suit their main hope Kew Gardens. |
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I haven't criticised him
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doyle is no head waiter
^ what's this, Scotch mist? |
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you've completely misinterpreted that comment
head waiter is a term I would use to describe somebody like a carberry over jumps (default style hold horses up) doyle doesn't have a default hold up style imo hence my comment |
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So why bother posting it? The fact you posted it on this thread would suggest you were being critical of his hold up skills.
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ok whatever
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I love that this mofo is still rolling lmao. I do think we are going round in circles though guys. A late finishing hold up ride that doesn't win is a bad ride end of unless it meets exceptional trouble in running which it didn't. Doyle sat too far back and had ample opportunity to move forward much earlier than he did. A length further forward 4 out would have made all the difference but pulling out wide instead of riding through the pack was the biggest mistake. You only need to look at GOD on dancing brave and to see how you ride a hold up horse in an arc. Simailar amount of runners but a much more intelligent jockey.
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The RP has dished out an appraisal of him, a timely and convenient time-space-wasting piece on their part. Doyle is good (Kingman) similarly, Queally on Frankel. And the latter has far less opportunities than the former.
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Doyle wasn't so good in the 200 Guineas impossible lmao but I get what your saying mate. Just think it would be simpler for all his defenders to admit he lost by been too far back. They obviously don't have the testes for that but each to their own. I will agree it was a brave ride but imo to lose like that is still ultimately a bad ride.
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I agree, 2000G was not good; sidetracked by Australia to allow an outsider to triumph. Post that was good though. I'll have Dettori any time or even Starkey in big meetings and races with the exception of Dancing Brave in The Derby.
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Head Waiter ? Harry Wragg must be turning in his grave at some of the riders being given his title.
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Hold-up rides are always open to criticism if they don't end up in victory. I thought Doyle gave her a very good ride under the circumstances.
My favourite hold-up horse of all time is Harmonic Way, who used the tactic in exaggerated fashion to win the 1999 Stewards Cup, 2000 Wokingham and 2001 Cork & Orrery. For one of those wins the jockey was fitted with the Jockey Cam, sadly I can't find it online, but still remember it as 'knife through butter' stuff. |
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Anyone remembers Little Bay? For that matter has anyone tried to get their losses back on him? Still waiting, no doubt.
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That Derby will haunt starkey for a million years lol. I remember little bay but not so much race wise think was Gordon Richards and Ron Barry
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I was at Goodwood for the 86' Select Stakes to watch Dancing Brave post his Derby run; he looked absolutely superb with a glossy sheen on his coat. The crowd started slow-clapping Starkey as he approached the home turn a good 6f out, and louder when Starkey looked over his left shoulder coasting into the lead before stretching out for an easy win en-route to the Arc. Poor Starkey!
Little Bay was a right monkey. He'd pull himself up almost immediately after taking up the running, and had to be kidded along to the line. If not mistaken, Francome had a go too. |
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Think I remember francome on him too mate that's 35 years agoish ffs we getn old mate
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I was in my mid 20's (I think). The race was on tele, and I remembered Francome riding him like a cowboy up the Sandown hill (I believe).
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first two at nottingham not too shoddy
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How dare you! If some Sun reading Yorkshire gobby bloke says otherwise then that is absolutely the end of the matter!!!
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Yes, he has ridden another couple of hold-up winners but on another day those in front don't come back and things don't look quite so rosy. Nottingham is quite often a good track for front runners so conceding plenty of ground is not always such a great tactic.
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best jockey in the business
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That sounds like sarcasm Charwell I'm impressed didn't realise guardian readers understood that particular form of wit lmfao. The thing that the sun and myself have in common is that we are straight to the point and that's the way to be Imo. Btw still think a losing ride is a bad ride regardless of how close you get!!!!!!
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