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I see a lot of talk regarding Betfairs premium charge. Does this only apply if you are a trader? If you were to successfully find horses to win or lose races without any form of trading, would the Premium charge still apply if you were successful with your approach?
Thank you
Thank you
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Replies: 77
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Yes.
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no
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SS.........that doesn't sound fair if you are right.........I think the best advice is join one of betfairs rivals
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Surely by correctly identifying winning or losing horses without resorting to trading, should not carry a penalty? Bookmakers used to charge a % when placing a bet or take a percentage from winning bets if tax was not paid prior. Tax was abolished. So how can Betfair tax a successful punter based on the above criteria. It is pretty much a similar position as a bookie banning you for knowing what you are doing. As Betfair acts as a middle man, they have no right in theory.
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cranky.........I pay it but I used to trade .....I don't trade anymore so this account is almost never used.........20% takes away any chance of doing a bet on here
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cranky.........I pay it but I used to trade .....I don't trade anymore so this account is almost never used.........20% takes away any chance of doing a bet on here
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oops
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I have an account on another exchange..........get my bet on at roughly same odds...........no 20%
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someone has to pay for betfair's MASSIVE promotion of the exchange for goodness sake
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OK Let's look at it another way. Any income accrued from GAMBLING cannot be taxed by any Government. So if I decide to gamble ( note the word gamble ) on the favourite winning or losing the first race, and I am successful, how can Betfair take on the role of HMRC and tax me for being good at my job. They can't. From my winnings they have already taken a percentage. In my opinion as I do not trade, they have no more entitlement
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big surprise that no other exchange as taken advantage of betfair charging PC.........other firms have a massive advantage but even with an handicap betfair are still miles ahead of all the other firms combined...............its a mystery
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Indeed
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if you are a very successful layer the way the PC is set up I suppose you will be caught in the net
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What about if you only backed horses to win or be placed without any laying involved, would Betfair still apply their charge?
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SS will know but if you was a value punter and backed big prices so you would have far more losers than winners but still show profit I don't think you would be liable for PC charge
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It looks like if Betfair continue being greedy, at some point I shall have to have a family member or friend open an account from which I can start all over again. Seems the only way around it.
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ive payed £3700 in PC charges which is tiny compared to most people
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cranky......what sort of bets do you do??
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Yes. Consider what Mr Shafter is likely to be paying each month. But that is understandable as he is a trader. On an average day, I would place a win and place bet on between 1 - 8 races. In other words 2 - 16 bets daily. 20% stake on the win market & the other 80% on the place market
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I don't know if you would be caught...........willie would be the one to tell you............knowing betfair probably......you first need to win 5k............so up to then you don't need to worry.
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they give you a £1,000 allowance once that's gone you start paying..
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Thanks for your input Cardiff
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cranky............is your allowance still £1,000??
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I would not know how to find out
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click on to your account............then betting activity.................you will see premium charge.........that will tell you how much allowance you have left??
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I do have another selfish reason for wanting to understand how Betfair apply their charges in relation to non traders. I admit to being a geek and over the last 6 years have designed a number of systems. Some which were sold directly, others which involved a subscription. Un fortunately subscriptions tend to have a short life span as people do not have the intelligence to keep info to themselves to achieve the top end profits. Once it becomes evident that tips are being spread and odds are tumbling, which in effect was reducing my top end, such services were closed. I had a guy design a betting bot which targeted the average odds on Oddschecker within a certain price range just before the off. Everybody was making a fortune. But after a while, Oddschecker refused the bot access. And as the system was quite complicated, that pretty much finished it. Seems gamblers are not allowed to prosper sometimes.
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trade, back , lay , lay to back , etc
makes no difference. PC is calculated as to your profit versus how much commission you have generated to get that profit . so a person on 20% PC win £100 profit , but generated £20 in commission , no PC to pay win £100 profit , but generated £10 in commission , PC to pay is £10 that's it in general terms |
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Pablo..........its possible anyone could be caught
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Pablo.......what type of punter would escape the net??...
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Someone with lots of wins and losses who is paying plenty of commission organically.
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win £100 profit , but generated £20 in commission , no PC to pay
cardiff , someone who has lots of wins and lots of losses MAY escape the net . it's all about commission you have generated compared to profit. |
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 laltalomne |
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Pablo............seems an unfair tax..........anybody not trading should not be liable
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cardiff, it is an unfair tax . i know this may sound silly , but not even betfair like it anymore . it's just they have become so use to it as an income to bolster profits .
only when it accounts for 1%-2% of their profits will they drop it , or if the USA have an exchange , they may have to re-jig it |
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just my opinion of course
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read on here that in the future this could be a ppi type situation where people might be able to claim the money back.....that would be nice
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20% is fair enough (if calculated on actual commission). Anything above that is robbery particularly when it isn't based on actual commission but the (3% + x%)/2 method.
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Excuse me but Mr Shaffer ain't a dirty trader
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Firstly shafty aint a trader, though I dont quite know what your interpretation of a trader is.
Secondly it doesnt matter how you operate, if your commission paid to gross profits are under a set % they come and unaturally take the rest upto a certain leel depending on how much you have won in total since being here. Thirdly, they are reviewing the PC, 50 of us are given allowances for being large net layers in markets and have our PC reduced each week as a result, its a trial hopefully it will be permanent. |