Shop bet placed late

Willie

and you think the cashier who took the bet will be able to enable payment...?

no chance wotsoever you wont get paid.


If the bet had been with Hills, and the circumstances as described, it's almost certain to have been paid as a discretionary payment by line management who have the level of authority to pay that amount, not the cashier

RP need to highlight this what shop punters must now do is check their slips and demand their money back if the oss loses and bet has been placed after the official off. You cannot have cake and eat it.

of course he should get paid..its simply a rule they exploit to avoid paying.

Thanks for all the comments. In terms of 23 secs, I said myself this doesn't look good. However I'm convinced I was not that late. My question to any shop staff is does the bet get time stamped when scanned or when I hand over cash, as I said, there may have been 15-20 sec delay in actually getting cash. But slip had been scanned at that stage. I estimate that to be well within 10 secs. The stalls opened as I finished writing bet and I had about 5 steps to counter, no other punter in front of me, cashier took slip and scanned it immediately. All that in 10 secs I reckon. Will find out Monday. I can't get to shop today

your bet shouldnt be put through until you pay for it.

like i said get upon time your paid and the situation doesnt arise.

MD collecting peoples voids is nigh on impossible due to cctv and the checks secuity do.

deepdales explanations are spot on

you can stick a bet in the scanner but until you enter a stake and press enter, your bet isnt officially placed

never understand punters that are late with bets, you have all the time in the world before the race and then you decide to put it on 2-3 seconds after the race has gone, if youre a fobt regular im sure thay will pay you out otherwise no chance

how much was the stake and at what odds

Popped back to collect around 715 after work

I initially thought that was the amount due, I now think that was the time he went back to the shop though.

Thanks dealer for confirmation of when time stamped. I did mention stake and returns earlier, 9 win, 14ew, total stake 37, returns 215ish

Dealer: doesn't my copy/paste of their rules suggest my bet is on. After all, I have a receipt. I accept obvious deciet like placing a bet on a race already finished. I know I am partly to blame, however there is a lot of things in my favour I believe. Being told the bet was on, and not being told anything to the contrary for the duration of the race whilst I was watching. As people have confirmed, it only takes 10 secs to translate a bet into system, and the shop wasn't that busy that there would have been a backlog on system. Problem I have is verbal confirmation from cashier. Will she back me up assuming she's there Monday, and even if she does, will manager pay me out?

yes your bet will be on but the time it was officially placed is when the stake is confirmed and it prints your receipt. having a backlog or not makes no difference to your bet. when it is translated,the time on your slip is the time it was entered on tot he system i.e. when the process above has been completed.

you should get paid but some companies offer little leeway regardless how little it was after the off.

or the distance of race

Dodadae
can not understand why the cashier told you the bet was on when it was  not on
sad to say if epos says no then that is the final answer.
ronnie

Hope you're wrong Ronnie!

dodadae
at corals ALL late bets have to go through security the answer is always the same he should have got his bet on in time,
I still can not understand why the cashier said your bet was ON when epos said it was void.
good luck
Ronnie.

Dodadae, your namesake was a standing dish at Hackney Wick back in the day, I remember that dog well.

If I put on a bet that I thought may be late I just insist it gets translated immediately when I'm at the counter. A decent manager/cashier can translate a single in about 5 or 6 seconds so there is no doubt whether you are on or not.

Slippy
good advice but the op did and was told it was ON when it was clearly NOT ON
hope you are well
regards
Ronnie.

but it wouldnt say immediately it wasnt on would it?

correct it wouldnt

When DOES it, then, 'say' NOT on?

an off is sent to epos when every event goes off, bets taken after this will come up void whenever they are translated i.e when whoever is working brings up the bet and types in what the bet is.

i dont know the PP system but i imagine they are all similar as they work off the same principle

That being the case - Why do shop staff  still take ANY bets after they have seen the race go 'Off'?

The Op states he started writing his bet out after the Stalls had opened.

some systems dont off when the stalls open, would imagine its a company decision how they are set. you wouldnt know if it was late or not till the bet is translated

Finished writing my bet as stalls open, my bet was on counter within 10 secs (max) of start. My money followed after the cashier had scanned. As I was actually 23 secs after the off. PP had an allowance of 22 secs before their system declared no more bets. So, my outcome depends on how flexible this rule can be flexed. Their website states two exceptions for in shop bets. Fairly sure I do not qualify on either.

Paddy Power accepts bets on markets up to the No More Bets time for that market. If the time a bet is accepted (as determined by the time printed on the receipt) is after the No More Bets Time, the bet will be void, however there may be circumstances where Paddy Power could use its discretion to honour certain bets.
- If Betting-in-Running is available, the bet will be placed on the Betting-in-Running market at the price (and handicap and point values where applicable) available at the time the bet was placed. This applies to all bets with the exception of Racing bets and bets placed on Soccer Coupons neither of which will go onto the Betting-in-Running markets.
- If the bet is placed on a Soccer Coupon, the soccer match is underway less than five minutes, the score is still 0-0 and there have been no red cards in the match then the bet will stand at the price (and handicap and point values where applicable) that the customer would have received if the bet was placed immediately before the match kicked-off.

looking at that i doubt they will pay but good luck

When the bet has been translated, it will say 15 seconds late or whatever it was, it's up to the translator to accept the bet at that point to accept or void it. That's my take on it anyway.

Another rule about their "voiding of bets"
If at the time the bet was taken, the outcome of the market was resolved or the customer could have had an unfair indication of the outcome, then the bets involved will be void.
Clearly this is open to interpretation, and in a neutral situation it could be argued 23 secs might provide an unfair advantage. However, my true and faithful arguement is my bet was handed to cashier no more than 10 secs. But clearly the evidence of the time stamp doesn't help me.

23 seconds late to me Dodadae would mean they are within their rights to void your bet, as I said it's up to the manager at the time. I would say 23 seconds late you won't get paid out.

Slippy i agree if there is a doubt the bet should be translated as soon as possible, it might not stop an argument but at least everyone knows where they stand

Why do shop staff  still take ANY bets after they have seen the race go 'Off'?

because if it loses nobody's ever coming back up to ask for a refund, so that's another one for the kitty ....

like i said earlier hulk that is nigh near impossible now and void payouts are one of the first exceptions security checks

it will still go on dont get me wrong but its way odds on they get caught

There is/will be nothing in any Bookmaker's Rules as to - 'when the bet was handed to cashier' - as that cannot be determined  ... unless they have got perfectly time sequential CCTV - and, even then, will accept such evidence.

As you say, they can only go off when the bet was Time-Stamped.

I am not a Betting Shop punter - so I am left to ask ...

As the race was 2 mins 40 secs long - Presumably, the bet, and maybe others, was 'Translated' well before the race was finished  - Therefore ...

a) Could shop staff not then inform the Punter - 'Your bet was late'?
b) The punter ask the cashier - 'Does the  Translation show that the bet was On in time?

The (potential) situation seems to require a degree of responsibility from BOTH sides of the counter ... otherwise, every bet in a Betting Shop becomes a lottery - Win or Lose.

your a and b Onlooker are 100% right

if a bet is late as soon as the horse is entered in it will show void

by late i mean the time on bet is later than the time the system offed the race

every bet in a Betting Shop becomes a lottery - Win or Lose.

only bets struck right on the off or after it

^ Provided that the Cashier has not got a pile of slips - waiting to be processed/Translated
- due to busy taking a rush of bets.

I appreciate that they are probably not allowed to do that nowadays - but it certainly used to often be the case in years gone by.

in the OP's example having bets in the system would only matter for the time it would take for them to find his bet. bets can lie in the system for any amount of time, purely dependant on when the staff get round to translating them

Dodadae2    02 Jun 18 21:32 
Finished writing my bet as stalls open, my bet was on counter within 10 secs (max) of start.

10 secs is around 100yds.

More than that- Willie ..."10 secs" is around 180 yards - nearly a Furlong

I was going to post earlier - "23 seconds," is practically 2 Furlongs

Average 12 secs per furlong - 220 yards per furlong.

Still 2 mins 17 secs of the race left to run, though. 

was a standing start ydc

Think I'll just see how things pan out on Monday. I'll ask for the manager of the cashier is not working. However, PP are generally the kings of offering "concessions" although that's generally money back....but let's hope everyone can use a bit of common sense. Regardless of how it looks with the timings, I clearly didn't have 23 secs to assess the situation. I didn't take any notice of either the pictures or commentary, except to note the race was off. However I understand this is all irrelevant. Hopefully goodwill will come into play and common sense will prevail and I'll get my cash

Moral of story, don't forget my phone, and then I'd have had no probs having a bet in running on BF

the till clock and track clock are a million to be within a second.

Allowed for that - willie

They do NOT take 22 seconds for the first furlong - which would equate to your calculation.

6L per second x 10 = 60yds 2yards a L = 100yds approx allowing for standing start..

6 Lengths per second = 72 Lengths per Furlong

So your misquoted/mistyped, "60 yds" - (Surely you meant '60 Lengths') - for "10 seconds," then equates to 60/72nds  or 5/6ths of a Furlong

5/6ths of a Furlong (220 yards) = 184 yards (as I quoted)... NOT "100 yards".

Thus, your defensive explanation/calculation defeats itself.

6L per second x 10 = 60L @2yards a L = 100yds approx allowing for standing start..

Just waded through this thread and having made it to the end my overriding feeling is what vile places modern day shops have become ! If the OP is a regular, as he states, and he has been told in good faith that " he is on " then he should be paid no question. If PP hide behind some technicality and refuse payment then they are just vermin !! I wonder how Dorothy Paget would have coped - 23 seconds - wasn't she getting on with Billy about 23 hours after the race

dodadae - I hope you get paid as it is unfair. Happens to thousands of punters in shops everyday, horse gets beat they leave thinking bet was on but it wasn`t. Staff under instructions not to tell them, but some fair minded managers do but would get into trouble for doing so. It only come to punters attention when horse their horse wins and they try to collect. I have been in shops and seen this. Staff only know if bet is valid when they settle after race. System is all wrong. Bad for punters and very bad for staff who are on the front line and have to deal with angry customers. Never had these problems with old manual tills when manager stamped no more bets slip in till. Like I say, I hope you get paid, but I very much doubt it. It would set a precedent if they did. Only way to avoid this scenario is to place ones bet in plenty of time.

Steve Has picked something up TBH

So the OP Has rushed the 3yds to the counter then asked if he was on , then roared the Shop down as it won ..

Then swiftly Left to go back to work  ?

But popped back in afterwork  at 7.15 to Collect his bet ?

I am sorry but if I have just roared the Shop Down I am collecting then Returning to work ,with me Money in me Pocket ,,

Why did OP not try to collect said winnings then return to Work  ? Can only be a couple of Minutes in it

I never collect my winnings straight away. I can't see the point in rushing up to the counter two or three minutes after the race has finished, only to be told it's 'not in yet'. I'll collect the next time I'm in the shop (with all my other winners!!!!).

Surely it is when the bet is taken that is of utmost importance and not when the bet is captured on the screen by a member of staff. Imagine on Grand National Day if bets were written, nearly every bet would be void.

no 123..plenty winning bets been voided when computer sorts time out.

Surely it is when the bet is taken that is of utmost importance and not when the bet is captured on the screen by a member of staff. Imagine on Grand National Day if bets were written, nearly every bet would be void.

Oops, pressed wrong button. Ok in reply to impossible, bit of confusion on your understanding of the situation. If by captured, you mean translated, or physically typed in the system this time is irrelevant. However, when a customer hands over a bet it is scanned (put thru a scanner) and, my assumption from this thread, then the cashier types in stake and presses enter, and your receipt is printed. In my case, did cashier wait until she had my money until she entered my stake? (seems probable given my insistence I was nowhere near 23 secs late handing over the bet) clearly any well trained/ customer friendly cashier would do the whole process asap to ensure rushing-up-to-counter punter gets on. However I do take on board that alternative training might be to counteract the possibility of being slow counted. Anyway...... we'll see what happens tomorrow

As I am not a Betting Shop user - and am of similar thought to impossible123 - could you, or others, kindly confirm ...

a) Is the bet TIME-STAMPED when SCANNED - and a RECEIPT ISSUED? - and/or -

b) Are bets then Submitted - AGAIN- for (this strange term) 'TRANSLATION' - and are  (ONLY) THEN TIME-STAMPED?

If BOTH are the case - Then WHICH TIME-STAMP governs ON or NOT? -

As impossible123 states - "surely it should be when Scanned and Receipt Issued.

If it is the latter - Then that is ridiculous - as it would then appear your bet could be ...

1. Accepted
2. Scanned
3. Receipt Issued

............. But NOT on - because the Bet has not YET been 'TRANSLATED'.

'Translated' could be ANY time LATER - If that is so.

His bet is on when the receipt is printed

It's definitely NOT on translation. Translation is simply someone entering the bet (from a scan of betting slip) into system. E.g. see a scan of £100 win Saxon Warrior. Type into computer: stake: 109, type of bet: win, selection: Saxon Warrior. The system will know it's running in 430 Epsom, cashier just confirms. I guess at this stage computer might throw up an alert, bet placed 2 seconds after NMB, cashier may/should have option to accept/override. Clearly if it was 7mins or 4 hours, the bet would be void, either automatically or prompted to person entering. I am only assuming the bit above about the "tolerance". It's the same if someone takes a "back" price, system will say price was such and such at time of bet or might even state how long since it was price taken. Surely all bookies would allow a little leeway. Again, down to who the punter is. Regular small stakes man, no probs. Clearly if he continuously takes the pi** and asks for 7/2 when odds are 5/2, via 3/1, then bookie may have a word....

I second after rhe off will bring it up void on epis. No override in any system i know of

Epos

Thank you for the answers.

Just to confirm ...

Bet is TIMED when RECEIPT is ISSUED..... AND THAT SHOULD determine ON or NOT - according to the dealer - who seems to have a good grasp of all this.

Is TRANSLATION then a FURTHER Process - AFTER Issue of RECEIPT? - or the Scanning process - That has still NOT been clarified in any posts.

If TRANSLATION is a Further (who knows how long delayed) process  - Why are so many answers on the first 2 pages of this thread 'banging on about' the bet being verified by "TRANSLATION"? ........... CONTRARY to what the OP Dodae2 has just posted ...

Dodadae2     Jun 18 18:28 

It's definitely NOT on translation.

From my very limited knowledge, I think translation is the cashier manually typing the bet into the system.

I've been in shops the next day to collect bets that hadn't been translated.

Translation tells the system what the bet is, translation can be done at anytime, just like old settling days where the bets were settled manually.

I been in the bookies when this happens.The bet wins you go collect and they say sorry it was put on after the off.What i've never witnessed is the cashier telling a punter you can have a refund because your bet was late on.Not once.

Thank you - the dealer

You appear to be one of the few who were/are  not 'having something of a guess' on this thread.

You appear to be one of the few who were/are  not 'having something of a guess' on this thread


Thought i'd explained it reasonably well onlooker.i'll have to brush up on my English lol!

Good luck tomorrow dodadae

Skygeenzone

re "I been in the bookies when this happens. The bet wins you go collect and they say sorry it was put on after the off. What I've never witnessed is the cashier telling a punter you can have a refund because your bet was late on. Not once."

It all comes down to the individual member of staff, I can proudly say I have on every occasion; even as the race is in running: called a punter back to tell them they were to late and give them a refund.

The only time you will see me in the bins is to empty them

Guesser signing in!

I don't know the ins and outs of how things work, but I do understand words!

I've been told plenty of times during the race that 'I'm not on', Ronnie. It's post race, when it's won that people mind.

s.kembo

As I have said on here for years always double check if the price is correct and If the bet is on before leaving the counter, you shouldn't have to but sad to say with most staff you need to.

ronnie


are all bets translated these days?

Delta
one or two have to go into the alien file
regards
Ronnie.

doesnt it take forever then when single man and matey has a 5p super heinz in bad hand writing?

* single manned

delta
went to a shop today 25 miles away and singled manned for most of the day
all bets translated
same on Tuesday.
regards
Ronnie.

Ronnie--what's the alien file?

As far as I know and understand every "written" bet needs to be captured eg it goes thro' the scanner, then physically gets translated (captured) by a member of staff eg £100 on Saxon Warrior at evens - sometimes no time or meeting stated and/or hand writing is so bad the scanner cannot read accurately. So it has to be entered (translate/captured) into the computer system physically by a member of staff.

If the system failed or crashed it would need to be rebooted (if majorly crashed) and the written bets translated/captured prior would be ok but those after would need to be translated/captured before the computer could settle them.

wheres home for tea these days he would tell you the sp

Home for tea hasn't posted in months.--probably banned

jml

Bets that can not be translated have to be manually settled.

Thank you Ronnie.

is there a time limit to translate ronnie, or else the liabilities could be unknown ...

delta
have worked in shops where the  bets translation is up to date  worked in shops where there have been hours behind if the acca cops and its not translated heads should roll but they wont
so short staffed

thanks for the info Ronnie'

Delta
always try to help
ronnie

impossible

As far as I know and understand every "written" bet needs to be captured eg it goes thro' the scanner, then physically gets translated (captured) by a member of staff eg £100 on Saxon Warrior at evens - sometimes no time or meeting stated and/or hand writing is so bad the scanner cannot read accurately. So it has to be entered (translate/captured) into the computer system physically by a member of staff.

If the system failed or crashed it would need to be rebooted (if majorly crashed) and the written bets translated/captured prior would be ok but those after would need to be translated/captured before the computer could settle them.


All bets need to be translated to let the system know what the bet is. The scanner just captures an image, it doesnt read what it actually says. That is what the translation of the bet is for. As Ronnie says, somethings aren't even in the system, they are translated as alien and manually settled. Most things are though. The system doesn't read that the bet says 100 win Saxon Warrior, it knows it has a 100 bet thats all until you tell it, ie translate the bet.

The exception to that is when mark sense slips are used for big events and on sports coupons. They are like lottery slips so the system can translate these autonatically. Thats why on Grand National day the staff are out on the shop floor tryin to get you to use the mark sense slips, where you just put a line through selection & stakes like on football coupons.

This question was asked on page 1...

'So when exactly would she know? If a cashier is asked if it is on and she replies it is,'
----------------

- and it still has NOT been answered conclusively and satisfactorily.

That is why I asked a  similar question - then followed up by impossible123 -  on page 3
-----------------

Deepdale Dreamer    02 Jun 18 09:13 

She wouldn't know it was void until she actually went to translate the bet. Thats when the system flags it up as being late.

Magic__Daps    02 Jun 18 09:41 

She wouldn't know it was void until she actually went to translate the bet. Thats when the system flags it up as being late


So when exactly would she know? If a cashier is asked if it is on and she replies it is, then there is a big issue if it can then be voided. Would he have been told after the race if it lost "by the way your bet was voided and here is your money back"?

Deepdale Dreamer, thanks for the info. I shall make sure my bet is not late if I ever bet in a betting shop again.

Hello all. Just to let you all know, popped into PP shop and was paid out without quibble. The member of staff may have been "senior" (do managers even exist anymore). She said they had a few new starters who didn't realise the importance of getting a late bet on quickly and confirmed the time stamp only happens when stake is entered, so if cashier waited till she saw colour of my money, that would explain that. Whether I got paid out because I'm a regular mug who has lost many times that amount in last couple of years, who knows? But all's well that ends well. Thanks for all the helpful comments.

wd Dodadae2

No doubt this thread was brought to their attention methinks....wd :)

ahh ffs ..... shafters only gone and got you a job lot of superglue for the locks