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ONCOURSE BOOKS ASSOCIATION PONTY DISGRACE
ONCOURSE BOOKS ASSOCIATION PONTY DISGRACE
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Replies: 148
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mug...stop trying to trip adge up....the silver 11 was up on auction over the winter the figures adge mentions are just about correct
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With just one Butts bookmaker turning up for midweek meetings and approximately ten silver books turning up it is clear that the Butts enclosure has much to gain. Sundays are the best days in the silver ring, but even those are struggling, whereas the Butts books prosper as punters struggle to ‘get on’ some Sundays. Would it be unreasonable to suggest that 9 Butts books would be insufficient to service the silver AND butts punters? Currently 25 (16+ silver and 9butts) service these punters. Let’s face it, Pontefract is a deprived area, not being rude st all. Silver punters will use the new Silver ring. Another point worth noting is that a silver ring will exist in some form. Wouldn’t it make sense that if no bookmaker is to lose their pitch, we have a Silver and Lower Silver ring? As for this ‘when it comes to minor rings it is all about pitch values’ I think this is a load of rubbish! It is supply and demand AND profitability that determines a pick value. I have t on good authority (BRBA director) that Norman can do as he pleases and will not be dictated to by us mere bookmakers.
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First of all a correction....the silver ring pitch I refered to in my 21.02 post was in fact sold in september....not January as the bookmaker concerned had told me....but the principle absolutely remains the same. What Artful dodger, if silver 11 HAD reached it's reserve of £4000 in January with the BRBA knowing the ring may close.... would Adge or CH be saying to factmachine....foxy....or mugbookie.....'sorry guys, we knew the ring may be closing 6 months ago but we had to keep it quiet until the location of the new burger bar was sorted....and you have to understand....in every negotiation.....there are 'winners and losers'....but rest assured we at the BRBA have your best interests at heart....by the way, your membership renewal is now due...we'll let you pay monthly since you've just unknowingly set fire to 4k !!!!
Now Artful...regarding your other accusation of me 'trying to trip Adge up'...he's tripped himself up over this....and he knows it....with the very significant conflict of interest he has.....he should NOT have gone anywhere near this silver/butts negotiation with the world's biggest bargepole....and as a trained accountant he'll be fully aware of his legal responsibilities....That's why he kept a close eye on silver ring pitch sales whilst in America....and emailed the Ponte management asking for list position transfers to be suspended...as they should of been !!! Foxy...Agree that very few silver ring punters will migrate to tatts....somebody like you with significant knowledge of the silver ring should of had some input into the changes. Footyexpert...based on what Foxy suggests....it's not unreasonable to suggest that 9 books will be insufficient to service a combined silver/butts...but on the positive side,the 46 books in tatts.... probably.... won't have the same problem ! |
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all should read their contract with the racecourse. " the best contract lawyers that money can buy " [ FRB quote ] cover this on page 8 sections 3.7, 3.8 and 3.9...will see you all , or most of you this evening.
and BRBA subscriptions are overdue ...should have been paid by now |
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Adge...Relevant parts 3.8...'having taken account of the interests of all relevant parties'....i'm a member of the ARB... are they not a 'relevant party'....also, with the ring being earmarked for closure...nobody from the silver ring was consulted...despite them being 'the most relevant party'
'The licensor ' shall have no liability to the bookmaker for any loss incurred as a result of relocation or closure of a ring.....that would very quickly fall down in any court of law where the licensor or the BRBA knowingly withheld information that was prejudicial to the interests of either a purchaser....or vendor.....the operative word being 'knowingly' |
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According to Norman, 2 pitches have changed hands at Pontefract ‘recently’. He was concerned that people were buying pitches not knowing the changes that were coming. He failed to do anything about it, though.
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the BRBA were invited by mr gundill to discuss bookmakers interests if plans to close the silver ring were to be made. we were asked to make an assessment as to how bookmakers in all four rings would equally best retain their pitch values under such a circumstance.
yes , i know it's clear that all would not be exactly even in this process. one of the very first suggestions i made was that mark ryan representing AGT should be included. mr gundill agreed that when firm plans were completed with architects plans in place the AGT would be informed immediately , which is exactly what has happened. to repeat we were included by invitation |
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Norman has personally asked Belinda Carlisle not to open up tonight with "We Want The Same Thing"
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Thank you ITK for that very constructive interjection...if you're outfit are looking to sell the Ponte rails pitch....let me know first will you
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sometimes a thread needs lightening up, usually where bookmakers are involved
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hope she has wellington boots with her , we are having an absolute monsoon here at presnt
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You're right...but they all 'want the same thing' MONEY !!!!.....be sure to keep me in the loop over the Ponte rails pitch....it may turn out to be no good with getting half the Tatts stand.
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Funny that Adge....i'm sat in the garden....laptop on the table.....sunbathing.....in ....MANCHESTER...!!!!!!!!!
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please form an orderly queue
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I notice a number of posts mentioning that BRBA directors were consulted in this. Please can someone let Norman know that he was speaking to BRBA representatives? The reason I ask this is that each and every response I get from email (I hope everyone is emailing him with their concerns!) he mentions that he has spoke to CH - the FRB representative! You couldn’t make it up! I hope CH doesn’t find out that Norman is referring to him as the FRB rep!
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When will the revised Ring lists be in place ? Does adge know ?
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murky world
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still need to get all their ducks in a line , democrat...full detailed planning position , funding for work , grants etc.
work expected to begin in late october and all completed by late march ready for the first race meeting of 2019 |
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FWIW it takes a bigger person to answer their ‘critics’ than just to hide away. Mugpunter - you say AP shouldn’t have gone near it with the biggest barge pole in the world (or words to that effect) but you can’t have it both ways. Do you want the BRBA to represent you or not? The BRBA advises them to suspend all transfers, but the racecourse refused. That is certainly worth considering, as they were happy enough to keep taking the 8% on deals that were unjustified after finding out what the plans are. My beef is with the racecourse. Surprise surprise, a Racecourse making decisions with no consultation.. NG doesn’t want to have to deal with dozens of books every meeting. He wants a single point of contact. The problem is that it doesn’t work like that, ALL stakeholders should be engage.
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FOOTYEXPERT,THE WHOLE POINT OF MUGBOOKIES POST WAS THAT HE DIDNT WANT THE BRBA TO REPRESENT HIM,HE IS A MEMBER OF THE ANOTHER ASSOCIATION THE ARB AND AT NO STAGE DID THE BRBA CONSULT WITH THE ARB OR ANYONE,NOT EVEN THEIR OWN MEMBERS THAT HAVE PITCHES AT PONTY REGARDING THE "NEGOTIATIONS" THAT BOTH BRBA NEGOTIATORS WOULD CONSIDERABLY BENEFIT FROM. MUGBOOKIES POST IS SPOT ON IN THE FACT THAT POSITIONS WERE BOUGHT AND SOLD IN THE 2 YEARS THAT THIS INSIDE KNOWLEDGE WAS KNOWN AND COULD HAVE HAD VERY SERIOUS REPERCUSSIONS FOR ANY DIRECTOR OF AN ASSOCIATION THAT WAS INVOLVED.RACECOURSES CANT AND SHOULDNT BE ALLOWED TO HAVE A "SINGLE POINT OF CONTACT" BECAUSE THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THEY DO,SELF INTEREST,SELF INTEREST,SELF INTEREST!
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i don't like the word negotiator as i consider that i was asked for help with advice only.
i repeat that i knew nothing of the news that the silver ring was going to be closed until 3 or 4 weeks before christmas. since then i have been working with the racecourse on how every ones contracts are affected by a ring closure and succeeded in all silver ring pitch holders still being able to have a pitch to bet in in the future, despite many bookmakers not agreeing that they should. as regards the ARB , i welcome any thoughts that they may have as i'm sure norman gundill would too. this last year we had a situation very near the ARB headquarters at warwick where the silver ring was closed and it's bookmakers lost their pitches and their investment...these very same pitches are now being used by tattersalls bookmakers at some meetings . the same could so easily happen at pontefract without the BRBA sometimes you need to know who is on your side in these situations. |
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THEY SAY THERES NO SUCH THING AS A CERTAINTY,WELL ONE THING THAT IS, IS THAT THE BRBA OR ANY OTHER BOOKMAKER ASSOCIATION ARE NOT ON THE SIDE OF THE MAJORITY OF ONCOURSE BOOKMAKERS!
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ADGE HOW MANY LETTERS DID THE BRBA SEND TO WARWICK REGARDING THE CLOSURE OF THE WARWICK SILVER RING,I WOULD HAZARD A GUESS AT NONE ?????????
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as you probably know , factmachine , warwick racecourse is one of the jockey club racecourses.
following the fiasco with the FRB it is a slow progress building relationships back up but something the BRBA are working on. i don't know the answer to your question as we prefer to meet in person . the point i am making is that most who lost their pitches are ARB members...whereas a very high number of silver ring bookmakers at pontefract are represented by the BRBA |
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I AM A MEMBER OF THE BRBA (LIKE MOST PEOPLE JOIN ANY ASSOCIATION, FOR THE PUBLIC LIABILITY INSURANCE) I HAVE A PITCH OR DID HAVE IN PONTY TATTS,WHO REPRESENTED ME ???????????????????
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the BRBA , FACT , whenever you need them too
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I WOULDNT WANT THEM TO HAVE IT IN FOR ME THEN!
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