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Johnson 7 day ban £6000 fine

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Replies: 144
By:
wondersobright
When: 16 Mar 18 20:18
look at it another way BB...owners of horses ridden by jockeys that stick within the rules would benefit
not advocating money be taken away from the prize fund
if 600k is the value of the race, 600k is to be distributed
By:
The Headmaster
When: 16 Mar 18 20:20
Not harsh on owners at all.  They ultimately give instructions and are more than capable of issuing them.  It's a team.  That's the same as saying it's harsh on the rest of the squad when a defender gives away a penalty.
By:
The Headmaster
When: 16 Mar 18 20:21
Yes, wsb, very easy to just adjust the distribution.  2nd gets 1st, 3rd gets 2nd etc.
By:
StillLearning
When: 16 Mar 18 20:23
For wanting to win, pathetic. Dodgy jockeys all over the gaff pulling horses left right and centre getting away with murder.
By:
the dealer
When: 16 Mar 18 20:24
i dont know many owners who give jockey's instructions before a race, so i would say harsh on them
By:
Barton Bank
When: 16 Mar 18 20:27
You really think the owner tells the jockey how many times to hit the horse, The Headmaster?
Good god.
By:
the dealer
When: 16 Mar 18 20:27
the football analogy must be one of the worst comparisons i have seen on here
By:
The Headmaster
When: 16 Mar 18 20:30
No I don't BB.  But I know if the rule was in place they could, would or should remind them how many times not to hit them.
Get it?
By:
wondersobright
When: 16 Mar 18 20:31

Mar 16, 2018 -- 8:30PM, The Headmaster wrote:


No I don't BB.  But I know if the rule was in place they could, would or should remind them how many times not to hit them.Get it?


and then simply refuse to use them in future

it would soon be out of the game imo

owners pay the bills, not jockeys

By:
The Headmaster
When: 16 Mar 18 20:32
It's really simple, the dealer.  Deal with the transgression as a team transgression.  I think that would change the culture.
Do you not?
By:
wondersobright
When: 16 Mar 18 20:32
*refuse to use them if they transgress the rules
By:
the dealer
When: 16 Mar 18 20:33
i personally think your talking nonsense with regards that and imo hitting the owner isnt the answer
By:
The Headmaster
When: 16 Mar 18 20:33
Correct wsb.
By:
the dealer
When: 16 Mar 18 20:34
if you'll pardon the pun
By:
The Headmaster
When: 16 Mar 18 20:35
Well then you are never going to effect change, the dealer.  What was your solution, out of interest?
By:
spudmurphy
When: 16 Mar 18 20:35
So why have they not fined the girl who won the Foxhunters for not using the whip enough lol, god watch every American Horse racing they beat the crap out of them off the home bend now that is serious.
By:
the dealer
When: 16 Mar 18 20:38
i dont know the solution but i do know if i owned a horse that a jockey decides to break the rules by striking it too many times, then the punishment should be on the jockey, not the owner. whatever that punishment should be is of course open to debate because the present situation isnt working
By:
wondersobright
When: 16 Mar 18 20:40

Mar 16, 2018 -- 8:33PM, the dealer wrote:


i personally think your talking nonsense with regards that and imo hitting the owner isnt the answer


owners (as a population) are not being hit though
they are completely unaffected by this proposal

its only the owners of the rule breakers who are disadvantaged...and its in favour of the owners who have been disadvantaged by being beaten by a horse that has had an unfair advantage

there is no net advantage or disadvantage to the collective owner

By:
wondersobright
When: 16 Mar 18 20:44
dealer...stop using that jockey then
and the trainer insists on using him/her, remove your horses from that trainer

that is the ultimate punishment for a jockey

no owner will use a jockey that is willing to compromise prize money
By:
Dr Crippen
When: 16 Mar 18 20:44
Any jockey who got a horse disqualified for using too many stokes would find it hard getting good outside rides in future. Especially in big races.
They'd never live it down.
We might find one or two getting disqualified at the start, but the message would soon sink in.

Overuse of the whip in a finish would be a thing of the past.
By:
the dealer
When: 16 Mar 18 20:44
if you are the owner of the winner that the jockey has digressed on then you are. the assumption being of course that in todays example you are saying it wouldnt have won had he only hit it the designated amount of times. its very hard to prove one way or another.

i do agree that it cant go on the way it is but imo that isnt the solution
By:
Barton Bank
When: 16 Mar 18 20:44
I think it is naive beyond belief to assume that such a policy would do anything other than alienate people within the sport, The Headmaster. I understand the point you are making, but I think it is a ridiculous idea.
By:
the dealer
When: 16 Mar 18 20:45
well you wouldnt use them but you are still punishing owners when he first digresses and imo that just isnt right
By:
wondersobright
When: 16 Mar 18 20:46
no I think native river probably would have won for 8 smacks but I don't feel its overly relevant
we are trying to get jockeys to ride to within the rules for the welfare of the sport
By:
Barton Bank
When: 16 Mar 18 20:46
My solution would be to fine the jockey their percentage of the prize money and give them a suspension which would increase every time they commit a whip offence. If the owner chooses to compensate the jockey for a significant win then they are hit in the pocket but wouldn't lose all their prize money for a transgression which (whatever you choose to believe) is essentially beyond their control. The jockeys would be far less likely to offend if the suspensions were longer than they are currently.
By:
wondersobright
When: 16 Mar 18 20:46
*the horses ffs
been a long week
By:
The Headmaster
When: 16 Mar 18 20:49
What is this idea that jockeys will do whatever they want with no regard to the trainer or owner who has put them up?  I find that hard to swallow and don't understand who is being 'alienated'.
By:
wondersobright
When: 16 Mar 18 20:49
I think if dickie was banned for 3 weeks and fined all his prize money he would still have ridden native river the same
By:
wondersobright
When: 16 Mar 18 20:56
give it a while to sink in and after a handful of 4, 5 or 6 figure prize money re-distributions, there would be no jockeys breaking whip rules or riding to win at all costs
By:
unclepuncle
When: 16 Mar 18 21:03
I guess because he won fairly comfortably it doesn't get much attention and like most I don't think it affected the result at all.
But imagine if he had won a short head and Nico had used his whip correctly within the rules.
Surely, like in a normal stweards eqnuiry where they have to decide if an infringement caused by poor / illegal jockeyship cost the other horse a race the stewards should have the option of disqualification.

Still be a grey area (eg. what if he won a neck and only went one over the allowed number of strikes) and open to debate like most stewards decisons (see the Imperial Cup last week) but at some point there will be a high profile race where a whip transgresser gets home by a whisker and there will be a big furore.
By:
The Headmaster
When: 16 Mar 18 21:04
Totally agree wsb. Jockeys will continue to take a bullet for the team while we separate them from the other connections.  The team analogy again.  Connect the dots and you find the answer imo.
By:
Poppydog.
When: 16 Mar 18 21:09
unclepuncle (see my earlier post)

There were 3 I posted that cheated and won by half length or under, this week and got whip bans,
when the 2nd home lawfully stuck to the rules of racing.

I am sure there were others.

Katie Walsh really gets to me, because she has had several high profile whip bans and
couldn't care less again this week and was flagrant in her cheating.
By:
brendrew
When: 16 Mar 18 21:11
dont think johson will be bothered one jot
By:
wondersobright
When: 16 Mar 18 21:12

Mar 16, 2018 -- 9:11PM, brendrew wrote:


dont think johson will be bothered one jot


correct, and that's the problem

By:
TELL DEL
When: 16 Mar 18 21:21
Still a grey area these whip rules. And what is the point in having whip rules if the result is allowed to stand. Agree with unclepuncle don't think it affected the result at all here but what if a horse wins by a neck and jockey went over allowed number of strikes. No point in having whip rules if jockeys are just going to ignore them and win at all costs.
By:
Shrewd_dude
When: 16 Mar 18 21:24
Nothing will ever work unless there is some sort of downside to the owners by a jockey transgressing.

You could severely penalise the jockey but there would still be pressure from the owners in big races for the jockeys to be one who takes it for the team when need be. It would be the ones who stick by the rules who get jocked off when they stick to the limit when the money is down or it's a big race.
By:
wondersobright
When: 16 Mar 18 21:29

Mar 16, 2018 -- 9:24PM, Shrewd_dude wrote:


Nothing will ever work unless there is some sort of downside to the owners by a jockey transgressing. You could severely penalise the jockey but there would still be pressure from the owners in big races for the jockeys to be one who takes it for the team when need be. It would be the ones who stick by the rules who get jocked off when they stick to the limit when the money is down or it's a big race.


could not agree with you more SD

By:
Dr Crippen
When: 16 Mar 18 21:29
Break the whip rules and disqualification follows.

Now who in their right mind is going to break the rules and lose the race?

Nobody, so there's the answer.
By:
Poppydog.
When: 16 Mar 18 21:44
Maybe a group of connections hammering the lay button?
By:
The Headmaster
When: 16 Mar 18 21:45
Yes totally agree, SD.  Consider the horse, jockey, owner and trainer as a single unit and we'll start seeing some improvements.
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