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25 Jun 17
22:33
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Date Joined:
16 Aug 05
Ryan Moore book of rides for the Royal Ascot meeting 2017
Race Course Horse Draw Run Place SP Money Earned WinDraw
Queen Anne ST Deauville 6 16 3rd 12/1 73,706 1
Coventry ST Murillo 4 18 3rd 8/1 16,140 9
Kings Stand ST Washington DC 17 17 15th 8/1 0 18
St James Palace R Churchill 5 8 4th 1/2f 21,440 4
Ascot Stakes R Thomas Hobson 11 18 1st 4/1f 49,800 11
Windsor Castle ST Declarationofpeace 14 22 22nd 13/8f 0 12
Jersey Stakes ST Whitecliffsofdover 12 20 15th 12/1 0 10
Queen Mary ST Happy Like A Fool 18 23 2nd 10/11f 23,650 20
Duke Cambridge ST Smart Call 11 14 4th 9/2 10,800 10
Prince of Wales R Highland Reel 6 8 1st 9/4 425,325 6
Royal Hunt Cup ST Ballet Concerto 11 29 4th 20/1 8,155 26
Sandringham ST Rain Goddess 18 24 2nd 7/1 17,200 11
Norfolk Stakes ST Sioux Nation 2 17 1st 14/1 56,710 2
Hampton Court R Orderofthegarter 14 13 2nd 10/3f 19,350 6
Ribblesdale R Alluringly 4 12 6th 5/2 2,902 1
Gold Cup R Order of St George 13 14 2nd 5/6f 86,000 7
Britannia ST City of Joy 17 29 10th 8/1 0 3
King George V R Homesman 16 18 5th 8/1 2,097 22
Albany Stakes ST Clemmie 2 20 7th 7/1 0 13
King Edward VII R Sir John Lavery 13 12 9th 8/1 0 11
Commonwealth ST Caravaggio 5 12 1st 5/6f 226,840 5
Coronation Stakes R Winter 7 7 1st 4/9f 243,853 7
Queens Vase R Belgravia 7 13 4th 5/1f 8,643 9
Duke of Edinburgh R Mainstream 11 19 6th 5/1 936 19
Chesham Stakes ST September 6 15 1st 11/8f 45,368 6
Wolferton R Ayrad 14 16 5th 16/1 2,152 5
Hardwicke St R Dartmouth 4 12 4th 9/4f 12,060 7
Diamond Jubilee ST Limato 15 19 3rd 2/1f 64,560 3
Wokingham St ST Raucous 21 27 8th 11/2f 0 1
Queen Alexandra R US Army Ranger 7 16 3rd 7/2 7,456 3
30 Races Wins 6, 2nds 4, 3rds 4, 4ths 5, Unplaced 11 Total 1,425,143
Won on 4 of 13 favourites
Hard to know where to begin on a subject that is likely to run until Moore chooses to retire as there are very few riders around who could be considered as challengers to his position as No 1, that is not to say that I believe him to be a great jockey when compared to past legends bur certainly in this era with his contacts and longevity he has maintained a position of top rider rather easily through the lack of viable competition.
The fact that he alone had rides in all 30 races at Royal Ascot speaks volumes for peoples willingness to put him up on their animals albeit 66% of his rides came from one stable, there can be little doubt if Ballydoyle had not had runners in so many races he would still have picked up a full book of rides such is his popularity with other trainers clamouring to use him when he is available. Recalling the vintage years that someone of my age always reflects on, I cannot ever remember any of the greats like Piggott, Eddery, Cauthen, Mercer, Breasley etc ever having a year when they had a full book of rides for what was then a four day meeting.
Looking at the 30 rides only 6 (20%) failed to earn any place money, the other 24 (80%) earned a total of £1,425,143 which is a fairly hefty return for less than 2 actual hours riding in the saddle.
When you consider this is a meeting that all stables have their entries fighting fit for, is a win return of 20% really that bad when you compare it to a career percentage of 17.5%, in my book it is a decent win ratio and one that plenty of others would like to achieve.
Second best was William Buick who had 4/26 (15%) whose own career percentage is 16.29%, it is strange why Moore has been criticised continuously and Buick has escaped without much being said, perhaps it is because Moore is adjudged to be on the best the majority of the time because of the link to Coolmore whereas Buick is excused because he rides for Godolphin of whom the public expect very little these days with all the in-house fighting and bickering going on.
To the rides themselves as they are what is really under the microscope rather than whatever the figures say.
Churchill – The horse appeared to be given every chance, just was not able to quicken to get involved, already victorious in two Group 1’s, perhaps this was one race too far too soon for him, the winner Barney Roy had come straight from the Guinea’s and the longer recovery time allowed I believe was the deciding factor.
Orderofthegarter – First surprise for me was that this horse started favourite, had looked distinctly average in the French Guinea’s and Derby, ridden from off the pace, he made his move wide and failed to pick up the winner who had finished fifth in the English Derby, whilst it looked visually that he may have caught Benbatl if he had made his run earlier, did he have any right to, given that the Derby form appears to be strong this year.
Order of St George – The amount posted on this has been astonishing, yes Moore came from a long way back but his horse headed Big Orange only to be out battled near home, if he was guilty of anything it is that he got there too soon which enabled Big Orange to rally.
Belgravia – Not sure why this started favourite either, other than because of connections, is a slow one paced galloper, was caught out in a rough race because the horse did not have the gears to go when he needed to, when it did get going the principles had stolen the race, will be better suited by a longer straight like either the Curragh or Doncaster.
Mainstream – Started slowly, was held up then ran into trouble when making its run, there were at least five others that suffered the same fate, a facet of the round course whenever the field is large, luck will always play a major part.
Dartmouth – Another false favourite, perhaps because of the publics will to see a winner for the Queen and the bookmakers knowledge that they could keep shortening it and money would still come for it, did well to get it into any kind of contention, indeed it probably lost two places because the ride was to give it a chance to win rather than to achieve best placing, Idaho had every right to beat it whereas second and third did so because Moore went too early and finished 4th rather than possibly being second.
Limato – A decent animal but very much over hyped, never looked likely to win and the interference only served as an excuse for his failure to fire on the day, his recent record of 2/8 tells you that he is not a superstar sprinter just one of a few who on their day can beat the others.
Raucous – How anyone could voice dissent at this ride is beyond belief, drawn on the wrong side he was never going to win and those who played him at single figure prices should give themselves a good hard slap, even if there had of been pace on his side, he would still have needed luck to weave a clear passage through, the horses record speaks volumes , one of those unlucky in running sorts who will go in when everyone has given up on it, did well to finish 3rd in the race on the stands side, makes the runs of the 3rd and 4th in the race worth marking down as exceptional.
US Army Ranger – My view beforehand was that he should win on class alone if he stayed the trip, on reflection I think he did stay perfectly well but will never give himself a decent chance of victory because he refuses to co-operate when the rider asks him to.
Overall on reflection in the cold light of day I believe that people expect far too much from Moore and allow their emotions to run away with them when posting immediately after a race. It is all too easy to blame the rider than yourself when backing a loser and because Moore is viewed by some as the top jockey he receives more criticism than most, especially as the majority of his rides start favourite or far shorter than their true odds should be. That is not to say that Moore is faultless or above criticism, he makes plenty of errors but is fortunate that in many cases the horses he rides are superior enough in quality to give him the option to put things right before the finishing line.
For me Moore is a decent rider in an era where the competition is limited, all the time he is in favour with Coolmore the victories will continue to stack up and historically he may well be viewed as better than many of those before him, because the statistics will say as much, that does not mean to say he is equal with those before him on the score of talent though, and I have no doubt that in all the recent era’s he would be second tier at best behind the likes of Murtagh, Kinane, Fallon, Eddery, Piggott, Mercer, Breasley etc etc.
That is not to imply that those listed did not make errors, difference is that Moore is under the microscope for each and every race he rides in, the stars of yesterday were only ever judged on maybe 4 races on a Saturday or 16 over a festival meeting like Royal Ascot, that meeting alone advertises the disparity perfectly, as Moore was being watched 30 times and by a far larger number of people, who supposedly know what they are looking at, though reading some of the posts on here it would make you wonder whether they actually do, as the ignorance shown by some is quite incredible.
Race Course Horse Draw Run Place SP Money Earned WinDraw
Queen Anne ST Deauville 6 16 3rd 12/1 73,706 1
Coventry ST Murillo 4 18 3rd 8/1 16,140 9
Kings Stand ST Washington DC 17 17 15th 8/1 0 18
St James Palace R Churchill 5 8 4th 1/2f 21,440 4
Ascot Stakes R Thomas Hobson 11 18 1st 4/1f 49,800 11
Windsor Castle ST Declarationofpeace 14 22 22nd 13/8f 0 12
Jersey Stakes ST Whitecliffsofdover 12 20 15th 12/1 0 10
Queen Mary ST Happy Like A Fool 18 23 2nd 10/11f 23,650 20
Duke Cambridge ST Smart Call 11 14 4th 9/2 10,800 10
Prince of Wales R Highland Reel 6 8 1st 9/4 425,325 6
Royal Hunt Cup ST Ballet Concerto 11 29 4th 20/1 8,155 26
Sandringham ST Rain Goddess 18 24 2nd 7/1 17,200 11
Norfolk Stakes ST Sioux Nation 2 17 1st 14/1 56,710 2
Hampton Court R Orderofthegarter 14 13 2nd 10/3f 19,350 6
Ribblesdale R Alluringly 4 12 6th 5/2 2,902 1
Gold Cup R Order of St George 13 14 2nd 5/6f 86,000 7
Britannia ST City of Joy 17 29 10th 8/1 0 3
King George V R Homesman 16 18 5th 8/1 2,097 22
Albany Stakes ST Clemmie 2 20 7th 7/1 0 13
King Edward VII R Sir John Lavery 13 12 9th 8/1 0 11
Commonwealth ST Caravaggio 5 12 1st 5/6f 226,840 5
Coronation Stakes R Winter 7 7 1st 4/9f 243,853 7
Queens Vase R Belgravia 7 13 4th 5/1f 8,643 9
Duke of Edinburgh R Mainstream 11 19 6th 5/1 936 19
Chesham Stakes ST September 6 15 1st 11/8f 45,368 6
Wolferton R Ayrad 14 16 5th 16/1 2,152 5
Hardwicke St R Dartmouth 4 12 4th 9/4f 12,060 7
Diamond Jubilee ST Limato 15 19 3rd 2/1f 64,560 3
Wokingham St ST Raucous 21 27 8th 11/2f 0 1
Queen Alexandra R US Army Ranger 7 16 3rd 7/2 7,456 3
30 Races Wins 6, 2nds 4, 3rds 4, 4ths 5, Unplaced 11 Total 1,425,143
Won on 4 of 13 favourites
Hard to know where to begin on a subject that is likely to run until Moore chooses to retire as there are very few riders around who could be considered as challengers to his position as No 1, that is not to say that I believe him to be a great jockey when compared to past legends bur certainly in this era with his contacts and longevity he has maintained a position of top rider rather easily through the lack of viable competition.
The fact that he alone had rides in all 30 races at Royal Ascot speaks volumes for peoples willingness to put him up on their animals albeit 66% of his rides came from one stable, there can be little doubt if Ballydoyle had not had runners in so many races he would still have picked up a full book of rides such is his popularity with other trainers clamouring to use him when he is available. Recalling the vintage years that someone of my age always reflects on, I cannot ever remember any of the greats like Piggott, Eddery, Cauthen, Mercer, Breasley etc ever having a year when they had a full book of rides for what was then a four day meeting.
Looking at the 30 rides only 6 (20%) failed to earn any place money, the other 24 (80%) earned a total of £1,425,143 which is a fairly hefty return for less than 2 actual hours riding in the saddle.
When you consider this is a meeting that all stables have their entries fighting fit for, is a win return of 20% really that bad when you compare it to a career percentage of 17.5%, in my book it is a decent win ratio and one that plenty of others would like to achieve.
Second best was William Buick who had 4/26 (15%) whose own career percentage is 16.29%, it is strange why Moore has been criticised continuously and Buick has escaped without much being said, perhaps it is because Moore is adjudged to be on the best the majority of the time because of the link to Coolmore whereas Buick is excused because he rides for Godolphin of whom the public expect very little these days with all the in-house fighting and bickering going on.
To the rides themselves as they are what is really under the microscope rather than whatever the figures say.
Churchill – The horse appeared to be given every chance, just was not able to quicken to get involved, already victorious in two Group 1’s, perhaps this was one race too far too soon for him, the winner Barney Roy had come straight from the Guinea’s and the longer recovery time allowed I believe was the deciding factor.
Orderofthegarter – First surprise for me was that this horse started favourite, had looked distinctly average in the French Guinea’s and Derby, ridden from off the pace, he made his move wide and failed to pick up the winner who had finished fifth in the English Derby, whilst it looked visually that he may have caught Benbatl if he had made his run earlier, did he have any right to, given that the Derby form appears to be strong this year.
Order of St George – The amount posted on this has been astonishing, yes Moore came from a long way back but his horse headed Big Orange only to be out battled near home, if he was guilty of anything it is that he got there too soon which enabled Big Orange to rally.
Belgravia – Not sure why this started favourite either, other than because of connections, is a slow one paced galloper, was caught out in a rough race because the horse did not have the gears to go when he needed to, when it did get going the principles had stolen the race, will be better suited by a longer straight like either the Curragh or Doncaster.
Mainstream – Started slowly, was held up then ran into trouble when making its run, there were at least five others that suffered the same fate, a facet of the round course whenever the field is large, luck will always play a major part.
Dartmouth – Another false favourite, perhaps because of the publics will to see a winner for the Queen and the bookmakers knowledge that they could keep shortening it and money would still come for it, did well to get it into any kind of contention, indeed it probably lost two places because the ride was to give it a chance to win rather than to achieve best placing, Idaho had every right to beat it whereas second and third did so because Moore went too early and finished 4th rather than possibly being second.
Limato – A decent animal but very much over hyped, never looked likely to win and the interference only served as an excuse for his failure to fire on the day, his recent record of 2/8 tells you that he is not a superstar sprinter just one of a few who on their day can beat the others.
Raucous – How anyone could voice dissent at this ride is beyond belief, drawn on the wrong side he was never going to win and those who played him at single figure prices should give themselves a good hard slap, even if there had of been pace on his side, he would still have needed luck to weave a clear passage through, the horses record speaks volumes , one of those unlucky in running sorts who will go in when everyone has given up on it, did well to finish 3rd in the race on the stands side, makes the runs of the 3rd and 4th in the race worth marking down as exceptional.
US Army Ranger – My view beforehand was that he should win on class alone if he stayed the trip, on reflection I think he did stay perfectly well but will never give himself a decent chance of victory because he refuses to co-operate when the rider asks him to.
Overall on reflection in the cold light of day I believe that people expect far too much from Moore and allow their emotions to run away with them when posting immediately after a race. It is all too easy to blame the rider than yourself when backing a loser and because Moore is viewed by some as the top jockey he receives more criticism than most, especially as the majority of his rides start favourite or far shorter than their true odds should be. That is not to say that Moore is faultless or above criticism, he makes plenty of errors but is fortunate that in many cases the horses he rides are superior enough in quality to give him the option to put things right before the finishing line.
For me Moore is a decent rider in an era where the competition is limited, all the time he is in favour with Coolmore the victories will continue to stack up and historically he may well be viewed as better than many of those before him, because the statistics will say as much, that does not mean to say he is equal with those before him on the score of talent though, and I have no doubt that in all the recent era’s he would be second tier at best behind the likes of Murtagh, Kinane, Fallon, Eddery, Piggott, Mercer, Breasley etc etc.
That is not to imply that those listed did not make errors, difference is that Moore is under the microscope for each and every race he rides in, the stars of yesterday were only ever judged on maybe 4 races on a Saturday or 16 over a festival meeting like Royal Ascot, that meeting alone advertises the disparity perfectly, as Moore was being watched 30 times and by a far larger number of people, who supposedly know what they are looking at, though reading some of the posts on here it would make you wonder whether they actually do, as the ignorance shown by some is quite incredible.
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Not a personal attack Cork, but I would love to see 'could of' completely abolished and a return to universal use of 'could have'.
Yes, when did George head BO?!
Yes, when did George head BO?!
i watched it a few times and the closest he got was at the line,in my opinion he was
too far back,made hell of alot of ground to get to Big Orange.
US Army Ranger was the same.
too far back,made hell of alot of ground to get to Big Orange.
US Army Ranger was the same.
Good post Cork, agree with most if not all of that. On a forum where the jockey seems to be the be all and end all most of the time, it's a refreshing change to read something well thought out and articulate in their regard.
Apologies ellis, allow me to retract the BO/OOSG statement, was confusing it with Highland Reel being headed by Ulysses and Decorated Knight and then getting back past them, just watched again and as you correctly state BO was never headed, if James Doyle is to be believed in his interview he said BO picked up again when OOSG got to his flank, so maybe he wouldn't of ever got past him on that occasion.
Yep, good analysis Cork.
I'd personally cut him a bit of slack on the basis of the volume of rides - 30 rides, discuss with connections beforehand, debrief connections afterwards, media obligations when he rides the winner, hot weather, making sure he keeps hydrated, managing his weight, maintaining concentration during races to make sure he's alert to any potential race defining moves by his counterparts.
He strikes me as pretty tough mentally so I doubt he worries about being under the microscope or the pressure of expectation but there must come a point where the odd error creeps in due to mental fatigue as much as anything. He's not a robot.
At some of the other meetings he could skip the odd ride in the early races to focus on the feature event but the Ascot cards front load the pattern events so that's not really possible.
I'd personally cut him a bit of slack on the basis of the volume of rides - 30 rides, discuss with connections beforehand, debrief connections afterwards, media obligations when he rides the winner, hot weather, making sure he keeps hydrated, managing his weight, maintaining concentration during races to make sure he's alert to any potential race defining moves by his counterparts.
He strikes me as pretty tough mentally so I doubt he worries about being under the microscope or the pressure of expectation but there must come a point where the odd error creeps in due to mental fatigue as much as anything. He's not a robot.
At some of the other meetings he could skip the odd ride in the early races to focus on the feature event but the Ascot cards front load the pattern events so that's not really possible.
no probs cork,i dont think L Piggot would of lost on OOSG or USAR but thats another story 
ReaseHeath,
Good valid points, I was going to point out that the criticism increased on the last day, especially for his last four mounts and perhaps earlier criticism and a mixture of anger and tiredness had an effect on his decision making, but having re-visited the last four rides I didn't think a case could really be made on that basis because to my eyes he didn't do much wrong on any of them.
For me if he did have a poor day, it was most certainly Thursday, which if he could no doubt live again, he would probably have a treble.
Good valid points, I was going to point out that the criticism increased on the last day, especially for his last four mounts and perhaps earlier criticism and a mixture of anger and tiredness had an effect on his decision making, but having re-visited the last four rides I didn't think a case could really be made on that basis because to my eyes he didn't do much wrong on any of them.
For me if he did have a poor day, it was most certainly Thursday, which if he could no doubt live again, he would probably have a treble.
Funny you should say that ellis, as beforehand on Saturday morning I had visions of Moore riding US AR akin to Lester aboard John Cherry
Moore as given some of his mounts appalling rides recently , when he continually had his mounts way to far behind in races , one in particular ride was on Humble Hero at Lingfield got beat a nose after coming from miles behind , he seemed to go to sleep . and how he kept Rain Goddess out of the frame at Ascot beggars belief. again way out of his ground... many more examples recently .. he seems to have morphed into Jamie Spencer.
Any other jockey riding THE LADS horses would have as good a record as him, if you think he got there to soon on OOSG, oh dear, he has no idea how to change tact in a slow run race, no plan B, a decent jockey, yes, and that is all
greedy got the gig.
,ponty g1 horse in a listed trotted up evens
,ponty g1 horse in a listed trotted up evens
An excellent analysis Corky, but
the fact remains he does make tactical error's in high profile races ! His positioning of Order Of St George was very poor, and I think you'd have to agree he should of won the race ! ?...
I thought his ride on U S Army Ranger last years Derby was atrocious.. for me if he'd of got the horse in a more prominent position before Tattenham Corner, he'd of won the race ! The horse hasn't won since, and to me he did the beast a lot of harm that day with his ride !
All about opinion's, but like other poster's not a patch on P E, L P, W S, S C, W C, G M, J M, M K et al !
the fact remains he does make tactical error's in high profile races ! His positioning of Order Of St George was very poor, and I think you'd have to agree he should of won the race ! ?...
I thought his ride on U S Army Ranger last years Derby was atrocious.. for me if he'd of got the horse in a more prominent position before Tattenham Corner, he'd of won the race ! The horse hasn't won since, and to me he did the beast a lot of harm that day with his ride !
All about opinion's, but like other poster's not a patch on P E, L P, W S, S C, W C, G M, J M, M K et al !
Moore did not appreciate early enough in the meeting making up ground on the round course was almost impossible
All that effort and you still can't grasp the blindingly obvious. Got there too soon on Order Of St George? If you can't get that right it really isn't worth looking at anything else.
At least four duff rides out of six on the horse. If they cared about the horse he would already have been ditched.
There was nothing iffy about the horse before Moore started taking liberties with him. His two best performances were the Irish St Leger and the Arc. In the first he led three furlongs out and in the other he was sent forward. He didn't need to be held up and he didn't need to lead on the post. It is habitual for Moore to sit out of ground. That is his 'style'. When it doesn't work he is arrogant enough to keep doing the same thing. He got away with a poor ride last year, he didn't this year.
I would consider a good ride to be something that most of the weighing room couldn't achieve. In my opinion Moore rides far more bad races than good ones. Most of his rides are just average because given the quality of his mounts that's all they need to be.
At least four duff rides out of six on the horse. If they cared about the horse he would already have been ditched.
There was nothing iffy about the horse before Moore started taking liberties with him. His two best performances were the Irish St Leger and the Arc. In the first he led three furlongs out and in the other he was sent forward. He didn't need to be held up and he didn't need to lead on the post. It is habitual for Moore to sit out of ground. That is his 'style'. When it doesn't work he is arrogant enough to keep doing the same thing. He got away with a poor ride last year, he didn't this year.
I would consider a good ride to be something that most of the weighing room couldn't achieve. In my opinion Moore rides far more bad races than good ones. Most of his rides are just average because given the quality of his mounts that's all they need to be.
A well written piece Corky, Bit wasted on here though imo.
matso - Rain Goddess finished 2nd, perhaps it was another ride you are thinking about
deptford/differentdrum - if you read the replies, ellis already pointed out my error regarding OOSG, which I retracted and explained
hd - I don't believe anyone is disputing that he makes plenty of mistakes, as I said he is fortunate that he rides the quality of horse that often enables him to get out of trouble that he makes for himself, as for US AR that is pure conjecture and whilst I accept that is your own opinion, personally I would question the horses will to co-operate more than anything else, just seems to have his own ideas when racing.
differentdrum - using the Irish St Leger as an example is pointless, look at the calibre of the opposition that day and what they have achieved since and you will see that OOSG could not have lost that race if you or me had ridden it...!
As for the Arc, being a 12f race, obviously the tactics had to be completely different to those employed before and after, or he would have been left for dead, it is also worth mentioning that those two performances came on good ground in Ireland and France, where good is often softer than good ground in the UK, the three victories it has on good to firm here were all against poor opposition, so perhaps the real fast ground was a contributory factor to it not managing to pass Big Orange last week.
The statistics and the fact that Coolmore primarily, and many others, still see him as the go to jockey would seemingly contradict your opinion of his ability, he is certainly fortunate that the talent pool at this time is so dearth in numbers, or maybe he would be put under pressure to retain his position of number one.
deptford/differentdrum - if you read the replies, ellis already pointed out my error regarding OOSG, which I retracted and explained
hd - I don't believe anyone is disputing that he makes plenty of mistakes, as I said he is fortunate that he rides the quality of horse that often enables him to get out of trouble that he makes for himself, as for US AR that is pure conjecture and whilst I accept that is your own opinion, personally I would question the horses will to co-operate more than anything else, just seems to have his own ideas when racing.
differentdrum - using the Irish St Leger as an example is pointless, look at the calibre of the opposition that day and what they have achieved since and you will see that OOSG could not have lost that race if you or me had ridden it...!
As for the Arc, being a 12f race, obviously the tactics had to be completely different to those employed before and after, or he would have been left for dead, it is also worth mentioning that those two performances came on good ground in Ireland and France, where good is often softer than good ground in the UK, the three victories it has on good to firm here were all against poor opposition, so perhaps the real fast ground was a contributory factor to it not managing to pass Big Orange last week.
The statistics and the fact that Coolmore primarily, and many others, still see him as the go to jockey would seemingly contradict your opinion of his ability, he is certainly fortunate that the talent pool at this time is so dearth in numbers, or maybe he would be put under pressure to retain his position of number one.
jesus corky thats some read ffs, u got far too much free time on ur hands i feel lol, my actual opinion is that hes just a jockey of no class compared to the piggotts cauthens etc and a very fortunate man to be riding amongst such a shower of colleagues
Long time no hear "thomas", things still ticking over and keeping your head above water I hope....
Think you have summed up most peoples view of him, very much a case of being in the right place at the right time, any of the greats and a few others who had limited chances in their own careers because of the competition for rides would ensure that Moore stayed in the shadows rather than being in the limelight.
You are quite right I do have too much time on my hands these days, might have to consider taking up the dogs and US racing again....!
Think you have summed up most peoples view of him, very much a case of being in the right place at the right time, any of the greats and a few others who had limited chances in their own careers because of the competition for rides would ensure that Moore stayed in the shadows rather than being in the limelight.
You are quite right I do have too much time on my hands these days, might have to consider taking up the dogs and US racing again....!
lol get back on the bags scene corky crayford misses you yeah and im good hope your winning
Moore mistakes like everybody but still the best jockey in Europe by far. We get much more in the way or racing on tv, replays and analysis than ever before and consequently people can pick holes in Moore and the others like they could never before. Piggott was in a league of his own but Moore is the best since then. The reason nearly all the top trainers clamour for his services is because he's the best. Anyone who thinks that jockeys in previous generations were much better needs to go back and look at old video's. They simply weren't. It's just whilst now we see thousands of races per year, we only used to see a small percentage.
After reading the stuff on here about Moore. Makes you think that he'd be better off packing in riding and getting himself a milk round.
What a load of toss.
What a load of toss.
asparagus - respect everyone is entitled to their own opinion, couldn't agree that Moore is the best since Piggott, in saying that you are putting him ahead of someone like Cauthen, the Kid would have left him in his wake imo
Dr Crippen - that is not what is being said in this quarter, he is the best currently for me, but only because the competition is so poor with no obvious pretender in our midst
Dr Crippen - that is not what is being said in this quarter, he is the best currently for me, but only because the competition is so poor with no obvious pretender in our midst
Dr Crippen - yes I appreciate that, but anyone reading your post may have thought you were inferring that the whole thread was criticising him
Of his 30 Royal Ascot rides, 20 were for Coolmore and 6 for Stoute so only 4 were spares.
I have no problem at all with Ryan Moore but there are probably 30-40 jockeys based in UK and Ireland alone who could do the job just as well. There really isn't much between any number of senior jockeys. Smullen was offered the Coolmore job twice. If he had taken it he would now top the opinion polls for the world's/Europe's top jockey. Having a big name retained rider is very useful when things go wrong and owners are not happy with a ride.... " hey it was Ryan Moore,he's the best jockey in the world,these things happen now lets move on".If it keeps the lads happy then that's fine but I would safely say Aiden O Brien would have no problem with any of his own jockeys getting the top job.
I have no problem at all with Ryan Moore but there are probably 30-40 jockeys based in UK and Ireland alone who could do the job just as well. There really isn't much between any number of senior jockeys. Smullen was offered the Coolmore job twice. If he had taken it he would now top the opinion polls for the world's/Europe's top jockey. Having a big name retained rider is very useful when things go wrong and owners are not happy with a ride.... " hey it was Ryan Moore,he's the best jockey in the world,these things happen now lets move on".If it keeps the lads happy then that's fine but I would safely say Aiden O Brien would have no problem with any of his own jockeys getting the top job.
Jockey Min Weight Wins Rides Strike Rate Level Stake Win Prize Total Prize
Silvestre De Sousa 8-2 56 254 22% +12.56 £317,889 490,224
Ryan Moore 8-7 36 155 23% 16.95 £2,234,847 3,366,708
what do people think of this ?
Silvestre De Sousa 8-2 56 254 22% +12.56 £317,889 490,224
Ryan Moore 8-7 36 155 23% 16.95 £2,234,847 3,366,708
what do people think of this ?
Tells me one has membership of the inner circle and the other doesn't and never will do, irrespective of his will and ability to get horses home in first place
good thread corks 
RM expected number of winners from BSPs was 6.6 so 6 winners about a par week
SDS a top jockey on the long term jockey figures but if you speak to people who have had dealings with him it is mostly not positive feedback
I think that might have a lot to do with it
RM expected number of winners from BSPs was 6.6 so 6 winners about a par week
SDS a top jockey on the long term jockey figures but if you speak to people who have had dealings with him it is mostly not positive feedback
I think that might have a lot to do with it
Agree wonders, not as obliging or savvy when it comes to protocol which is why he has missed out with a number of stables/owners
I would love to see Soumie riding for Coolmore. The man has all the talent in the world.
As for Moore, i actually think day in day out he is very decent, but , he does make far too many
mistakes in big races to my eye.
Obviously his employer(s) do not agreee.
i would have Greville Starkey before Moore as an aside.
As for Moore, i actually think day in day out he is very decent, but , he does make far too many
mistakes in big races to my eye.
Obviously his employer(s) do not agreee.
i would have Greville Starkey before Moore as an aside.
who happened to make the biggest balls up of all time in the Derby itself of all races
Royal Ascot top jockey seven times in the last eight years. Says it all for me.
Moore hasn't been quite at the same level as he was at before his back injury for me. Also, tactically he doesn't control enough races. Dettori is still head and shoulders in front in that regard. Moore gets away with it in most of the top races, as there's pace or his firm ensures there's a strong pace. Of the current crop, I still have Dettori in front, albeit he's probably not quite as strong in a finish as he was at his very peak.
I think you brought up some good talking points Cork, thank you.
Jun 26, 2017 -- 5:00PM, Cider wrote:
Moore hasn't been quite at the same level as he was at before his back injury for me. Also, tactically he doesn't control enough races. Dettori is still head and shoulders in front in that regard. Moore gets away with it in most of the top races, as there's pace or his firm ensures there's a strong pace. Of the current crop, I still have Dettori in front, albeit he's probably not quite as strong in a finish as he was at his very peak.
I think most people, if they're honest, would agree with that. I also think he hasn't become as good as he can be because of the tripe that now rides on the flat in the UK. He only has to be a cetain level and no more. Far too many bad jockeys are earning a good living because there's so much racing.
Best since Lester, lol.
I think he generally sits too far back as he thinks he is playing the percentages. ie he is on the best horse and is likely to pick them up whatever happens. If they go too quick, spot on if not my lad can still get there. As we see regularly this doesn't work out a lot of the time.
Tactically inept, to say he is better than the likes of Fallon, Frankie, Kinane, Eddery is laughable. These guys could ride all types of races and rarely f**ked it up in the big ones.
Today I would put him behind Smullen, Soumillion, and a few others.
I think he generally sits too far back as he thinks he is playing the percentages. ie he is on the best horse and is likely to pick them up whatever happens. If they go too quick, spot on if not my lad can still get there. As we see regularly this doesn't work out a lot of the time.
Tactically inept, to say he is better than the likes of Fallon, Frankie, Kinane, Eddery is laughable. These guys could ride all types of races and rarely f**ked it up in the big ones.
Today I would put him behind Smullen, Soumillion, and a few others.
Stayed out in the middle again tonight,most of the winners came up the stand rails,guys a joke imo.
GS would have been 46 when he rode Dancing Brave, sad that he is always remembered for one ride, personally I prefer to recall some of the better moments like Star Appeal, Fair Salinia and Shirley Heights, people often overlook the fact he did the double in 78 of Oaks and Derby, not many have that on their CV
he also won the Irish Oaks on Fair Salina in 78 if I remember corretly.
Thought that was what I had said, apologies, should have added Anglo/Irish before the word double in previous post ie he won all four that year
Moore looked near the same class as Piggott,Cauthen,Fallon who would be the best I have seen,but has now fallen down into the pack. I agree that the weight of racing is allowing mediocre jockeys to make a decent living these days but to tbf not as good a living as VERY mediocre footballers.
Jun 26, 2017 -- 4:31PM, wondersobright wrote:
good thread corks RM expected number of winners from BSPs was 6.6 so 6 winners about a par week SDS a top jockey on the long term jockey figures but if you speak to people who have had dealings with him it is mostly not positive feedbackI think that might have a lot to do with it
Could you elaborate on the SDS stuff wonders? I'm interested, is it that he is too hard, or that he won't do jobs, doesn't know when to give up? I'm interested as he should really have a stable job on his figures.
Believe you will find that his appreciation of racing protocol and etiquette is not of the required standard expected by those who provide the riding opportunities higher up the scale
Thought I would do a quick exercise to see if the numbers support the above, using a number of "old school" trainers from which I omitted Stoute and Hannon for obvious reasons, in the last five years the remaining trainers provided Moore with 233 mounts and de Sousa with just 97, which implies to me that there is some truth in it.
What constitutes as the 'best jockey'?
Being in the correct position at the right time? Power in a finish? Difference between winning a short nut or losing a short nut? Judgement of pace?
As far as being the best rider today, i would have Pat Smullen every day of the week. Moore does have some horror rides,[ Rhododendron, Order St George]. Gave Big Orange way too much rope when he was always going to be OOSG's biggest danger.
Has horses too far back [when riding for AOB] when usually he is on the best horse. Why take that risk when he could be closer to the pace, and in a position to attack no matter what happens up front?
Being in the correct position at the right time? Power in a finish? Difference between winning a short nut or losing a short nut? Judgement of pace?
As far as being the best rider today, i would have Pat Smullen every day of the week. Moore does have some horror rides,[ Rhododendron, Order St George]. Gave Big Orange way too much rope when he was always going to be OOSG's biggest danger.
Has horses too far back [when riding for AOB] when usually he is on the best horse. Why take that risk when he could be closer to the pace, and in a position to attack no matter what happens up front?
the best flat jockeys understand the importance of 2 things imo
1 going as close to even pace as possible for their horse (for even distribution of energy principles) and
2 they understand the balance between the benefit of saving ground by not going too wide but also the need to be in a position where you are not likely to be boxed in or hampered whilst also appreciating that there is a need for cover for some horses in some situations
1 going as close to even pace as possible for their horse (for even distribution of energy principles) and
2 they understand the balance between the benefit of saving ground by not going too wide but also the need to be in a position where you are not likely to be boxed in or hampered whilst also appreciating that there is a need for cover for some horses in some situations
neill most of it is in the public domain about SDS, think back to the time when he was with godolphin and he lost his job (ok he wasn't the 1st with them and certainly won't be the last) but no smoke without fire, he's moved around quite a lot which is worrying
I've read stories on here about him being booked to ride and doing the opposite of what a trainer/owner have asked, that's a sure fire way of p1ssing people off
also he has that don't want to be here attitude in interviews which I don't like
ok I know moore is like that and a few others but is moore like that with connections pretty obvious if you look at body language that he is not
also you cited his riding style, yes I do think he is too hard (for the progression of a horse)
great for on the day for a punter, low grade horse he wins on then next week he switches over to the horse that's fancied that week
stable jockey jobs are about a lot more than just getting a win out of a horse
) but no smoke without fire, he's moved around quite a lot which is worryingI've read stories on here about him being booked to ride and doing the opposite of what a trainer/owner have asked, that's a sure fire way of p1ssing people off
also he has that don't want to be here attitude in interviews which I don't like
ok I know moore is like that and a few others but is moore like that with connections pretty obvious if you look at body language that he is not
also you cited his riding style, yes I do think he is too hard (for the progression of a horse)
great for on the day for a punter, low grade horse he wins on then next week he switches over to the horse that's fancied that week
stable jockey jobs are about a lot more than just getting a win out of a horse
Best Jockey riding by a country mile.....Of Course he has his bad Day's like everybody else......But give me Moore over any other Jockey at the momment......Any Day.
Every yard in the country & every owner would take Moore over anyone else currently riding in a heartbeat if he was offered to them, That in itself tells you all you need to know.
People only appreciate how good someone is once they're gone, If Cauthen, Eddery, Piggott, F Archer ect ect were riding today you'd get threads on here saying how average they are & they make too many mistakes.
People only appreciate how good someone is once they're gone, If Cauthen, Eddery, Piggott, F Archer ect ect were riding today you'd get threads on here saying how average they are & they make too many mistakes.
Jun 27, 2017 -- 11:37AM, Blackrock wrote:
What constitutes as the 'best jockey'?Being in the correct position at the right time? Power in a finish? Difference between winning a short nut or losing a short nut? Judgement of pace?As far as being the best rider today, i would have Pat Smullen every day of the week. Moore does have some horror rides,[ Rhododendron, Order St George]. Gave Big Orange way too much rope when he was always going to be OOSG's biggest danger.Has horses too far back [when riding for AOB] when usually he is on the best horse. Why take that risk when he could be closer to the pace, and in a position to attack no matter what happens up front?
Think they actually tried to get Smullen, first, but he wanted to stay in Welds. Personally, I think Moore had the name value & CV they probably needed & I'd say they are just as happy with him.
Thanks a mill, Wonders & Cork, you are dead right Wonders, Moore looks a different person with connections.
Sorry Cork Langer you are right It was not Rain Goddess.. I meant to say Homesman , how Moore managed to keep it out of the frame I do not know.. Hes riding so many bad races recently I think I'm a bit punchy with it all.
Jun 27, 2017 -- 1:08PM, gutfeeling wrote:
Every yard in the country & every owner would take Moore over anyone else currently riding in a heartbeat if he was offered to them, That in itself tells you all you need to know.People only appreciate how good someone is once they're gone, If Cauthen, Eddery, Piggott, F Archer ect ect were riding today you'd get threads on here saying how average they are & they make too many mistakes.
Did you ask them all?
I expected some pedant to ask this question, No surprise it turned out to be you
Jun 27, 2017 -- 8:14PM, gutfeeling wrote:
I expected some pedant to ask this question, No surprise it turned out to be you
I could generalise just as well and say there's no Irish trainer or owner would have Moore ahead of Smullen
other than the biggest trainer & owners in Ireland you mean
Jun 27, 2017 -- 8:37PM, gutfeeling wrote:
other than the biggest trainer & owners in Ireland you mean
You mean the people Smullen turned down before Moore was offered it?
Nah, Smullen would have won a few more big races for them. He wasn't first choice for nothing
Hard to make a case for PJ on the stats, only hit 20% s/r once in his career, Moore has managed it 11 years running, fairly safe to say the boys are delighted at being rejected by Pat
Jun 28, 2017 -- 7:20PM, Cork Langer wrote:
Hard to make a case for PJ on the stats, only hit 20% s/r once in his career, Moore has managed it 11 years running, fairly safe to say the boys are delighted at being rejected by Pat
If he rode the exact same horses your comparison might have a semblance of truth
It could be argued that riding for DK he rides a lot of horses in races where there is limited competitive opposition
Jun 28, 2017 -- 7:37PM, Cork Langer wrote:
It could be argued that riding for DK he rides a lot of horses in races where there is limited competitive opposition
I think you're clutchng at straws there.
Not at all, are you saying the races he rides in here at home are more competitive than those that Moore rides in over in England....
Leave aside 2017 because PJ is having limited success and there is still half a year to go, take the last full year ie 2016, PJ managed 6 pattern race wins for outside stables, in the same period omitting both O'Brien and Stoute runners, Moore managed to ride 11, it is only your belief (and some others), which I respect, that PJ is a better rider than Moore.
There is no factual evidence to support your opinion but that is not to say you are wrong, just that at this moment all the stats and percentages put Moore in a different parish to PJ.
Leave aside 2017 because PJ is having limited success and there is still half a year to go, take the last full year ie 2016, PJ managed 6 pattern race wins for outside stables, in the same period omitting both O'Brien and Stoute runners, Moore managed to ride 11, it is only your belief (and some others), which I respect, that PJ is a better rider than Moore.
There is no factual evidence to support your opinion but that is not to say you are wrong, just that at this moment all the stats and percentages put Moore in a different parish to PJ.
Jun 28, 2017 -- 9:02PM, Cork Langer wrote:
Not at all, are you saying the races he rides in here at home are more competitive than those that Moore rides in over in England....Leave aside 2017 because PJ is having limited success and there is still half a year to go, take the last full year ie 2016, PJ managed 6 pattern race wins for outside stables, in the same period omitting both O'Brien and Stoute runners, Moore managed to ride 11, it is only your belief (and some others), which I respect, that PJ is a better rider than Moore.There is no factual evidence to support your opinion but that is not to say you are wrong, just that at this moment all the stats and percentages put Moore in a different parish to PJ.
Fair enough. How many of Moore's pattern wins for outide stables were in Ireland? I'm sure there is some stat out there that says Richard Johnson is a better jockey than Barry Geraghty, going by the last year or so. That would be bolix of course but the stat says otherwise so it must be true.
Not sure about the relevance of your question, but none of them were, perhaps you would care to elaborate
Smullen is riding in Ireland in big races mostly against O'Brien hotpots. Hardly a fair comparison to Moore in big races in England when O'Brien doesn't have a runner(if he did Moore would be on it).
The referred to outside pattern races were Worldwide and PJ's only victory outside of Ireland/UK came at Meydan, Moore had victories in Hong Kong, Dubai, Germany and Japan on his CV, which implies he is more successful and more sought after than PJ for other stables.
So because Smullen doesn't travel all over the place it's because he's never asked? As I was saying you can have stats to prove anything you like, but your eyes can tell you the truth. No coincidence these days that as soon as he gets a winner, even if it hacks up, Aidan is going out of his way to say how 'fantastic' the ride was from Ryan. He knows people at Irish tracks have been criticising Ryan and is doing his best to change that.
They say the Premier League does not lie.All around the world performances by Ryan Moore do not lie.Pat Smullen mid table at best.
The Premier league are you saying its the BEST in the world.... If Moore was a American jockey he'd be a workrider at best!
If Moore was a American jockey he'd be a workrider at best!
AOB, said this morning Ryan USUALLY rides our first string, oh yeah
You tell me MJK, I am merely working with the evidence that is documented and before me, I would have no idea about PJ's preference, but in my 50 years of following racing I don't remember ever seeing any reports or stories circulated about jockeys declining an invitation to ride abroad on occasions when the opportunity arose or was offered, unless already engaged elsewhere or suspended.
To use your own words, I think it could be said you are now clutching at straws, when you say about AOB waxing lyrical about Moore's rides, anyone that listens to any interview with him will tell you that any winning ride is world class, be it he is talking about Moore, Heffernan, O'Donoghue or Beggy, that is just a habit that he has unfortunately gotten into, and not a diversionary tactic to convince anyone about Moore.
I somewhat doubt that AOB would take any notice of people voicing dissent on track about Moore anyway, he would perhaps think again if the "boys" said it to him, but given who else is available at this time I think that very unlikely.
To use your own words, I think it could be said you are now clutching at straws, when you say about AOB waxing lyrical about Moore's rides, anyone that listens to any interview with him will tell you that any winning ride is world class, be it he is talking about Moore, Heffernan, O'Donoghue or Beggy, that is just a habit that he has unfortunately gotten into, and not a diversionary tactic to convince anyone about Moore.
I somewhat doubt that AOB would take any notice of people voicing dissent on track about Moore anyway, he would perhaps think again if the "boys" said it to him, but given who else is available at this time I think that very unlikely.
What a great read this thread is.. many thanks Mr (or indeed Ms) Cork Langer for some grown-up writing.
Jun 29, 2017 -- 7:30AM, workrider wrote:
Boy I thought I was early !
Gym at 7. I haven't got this body by accident
Jun 29, 2017 -- 9:43AM, Cork Langer wrote:
You tell me MJK, I am merely working with the evidence that is documented and before me, I would have no idea about PJ's preference, but in my 50 years of following racing I don't remember ever seeing any reports or stories circulated about jockeys declining an invitation to ride abroad on occasions when the opportunity arose or was offered, unless already engaged elsewhere or suspended.To use your own words, I think it could be said you are now clutching at straws, when you say about AOB waxing lyrical about Moore's rides, anyone that listens to any interview with him will tell you that any winning ride is world class, be it he is talking about Moore, Heffernan, O'Donoghue or Beggy, that is just a habit that he has unfortunately gotten into, and not a diversionary tactic to convince anyone about Moore.I somewhat doubt that AOB would take any notice of people voicing dissent on track about Moore anyway, he would perhaps think again if the "boys" said it to him, but given who else is available at this time I think that very unlikely.
Dermot Weld said at the time that the two reasons Smullen didn't take the job were down to loyalty to him and the fact he'd have to travel a lot more than he wanted for family reasons.
MJK, that is all good and well, the obvious question in my mind then would be why did DK feel the need to speak for PJ, quickly followed by whilst understanding loyalty, would many let it stand in the way of being offered the biggest job in racing, having served someone for countless years already, if you were the employer (DK) would you not be encouraging the person (PJ) to take up such a challenge that only comes once in a career if you are lucky, I know that I would personally.....
With regard to travelling in this modern era, do you really feel that would be an issue or is even a viable excuse, virtually everywhere that there is top class racing is accessible in less than a 48 hours round trip and given the Coolmore resources probably less than that.
From an outside perspective it is difficult to conclude anything other than that PJ either lacked the confidence to take the job on or the motivation to give it a go.
With regard to travelling in this modern era, do you really feel that would be an issue or is even a viable excuse, virtually everywhere that there is top class racing is accessible in less than a 48 hours round trip and given the Coolmore resources probably less than that.
From an outside perspective it is difficult to conclude anything other than that PJ either lacked the confidence to take the job on or the motivation to give it a go.
Jun 28, 2017 -- 7:20PM, Cork Langer wrote:
Hard to make a case for PJ on the stats, only hit 20% s/r once in his career, Moore has managed it 11 years running, fairly safe to say the boys are delighted at being rejected by Pat
Some of those Irish handicaps with massive field sizes Smullen rides in make it tough to maintain a high ratio, I'm only guessing.
Both very good.
Weld gave Smullen a Derby winner.
Smullen 100/100 would rather ride a Derby winner for DK than coolmore.
Moore needs to go he just simply needs to go. There is no pressure on him to perform and he rides accordingly.
Smullen 100/100 would rather ride a Derby winner for DK than coolmore.
Moore needs to go he just simply needs to go. There is no pressure on him to perform and he rides accordingly.
neill d, No dispute that it is near impossible to do a comparison between the two that would be acceptable or agreeable to people who hold different views about the respective riders, which is why I dug out the numbers on outside of main stable pattern race wins, as level a playing field as I could find, which Moore came out ahead by almost 2 to 1 (11/6).
jonjon, Would agree that PJ is grateful to DK for the opportunities he has afforded him in a 20 year period, as an individual though, if put in his place, I am certain that the competitive element within me would have convinced me to take the role at Coolmore, for no other reason than to avoid forever questioning or wondering what might have been if I had, how about you, do you feel that you could have resisted if Coolmore had come calling for your services....
As for dispensing with Moore's services the "boys" would need a superior alternative to him, at this moment I don't believe that there is one, that they would be prepared to take a chance on, as all the stats are at this moment working in Moore's favour.
jonjon, Would agree that PJ is grateful to DK for the opportunities he has afforded him in a 20 year period, as an individual though, if put in his place, I am certain that the competitive element within me would have convinced me to take the role at Coolmore, for no other reason than to avoid forever questioning or wondering what might have been if I had, how about you, do you feel that you could have resisted if Coolmore had come calling for your services....
As for dispensing with Moore's services the "boys" would need a superior alternative to him, at this moment I don't believe that there is one, that they would be prepared to take a chance on, as all the stats are at this moment working in Moore's favour.
Yeah I would believe Smullen is probably the type of guy who is happy with the money he had made(rare for a jockey), similar to a footballer who earns a good living and is happy at the club he's at, even though he could earn more if he moved elsewhere. I think the travelling thing was a thought that riding for Coolmore meant that you're away every weekend somewhere. No idea if Moore has a family of his own but Smullen always comes across as a real family man.
moore has family MJK but he takes time off during the week sometimes to compensate (entitled to)
Perhaps it is just as simple as that, in which case no one could hold it against him for opting for the security of continuing with his biggest supporters rather than taking a step into the unknown and then finding it didn't suit him, don't suppose we will ever know for sure unless he decides to write a book when he retires from the saddle, for the record, both are very much family orientated.
The simple reason i prefer Smullen, is he nearly always has his horse in a position to challenge whereas Moore sometimes gives his horses a mountain to climb.
Both are strong in a finish so nothing in it there. Imo Smullen would have ridden the more winners for AOB than Moore has done on the same mounts. Can't prove that of course just an opinion.
Both are strong in a finish so nothing in it there. Imo Smullen would have ridden the more winners for AOB than Moore has done on the same mounts. Can't prove that of course just an opinion.
Jamie Spencer is a brutal waste of talent, the biggest ever waste of talent, lads?
Someone used the word enigma in a post the other day, a more apt word you could not wish for, where JPS is concerned, it is a shame that he reversed his decision about retiring, if he had of retired though, the forum would be bereft of posts...!
T true !
In fairness, Ryan has got talent, is he sometimes over confident, or tactically not on his ''A'' game, or possibly arrogant ?
I would suggest the answer (') is yes !
true !In fairness, Ryan has got talent, is he sometimes over confident, or tactically not on his ''A'' game, or possibly arrogant ?
I would suggest the answer (') is yes !
Let's be honest about it... Joseph won his fair share of G 1 races !
Coolmore, are totally dominating the sport in Great Britain & Ireland !
Coolmore, are totally dominating the sport in Great Britain & Ireland !
And, not doing badly in The States, France & Australia !
You proved the point in a nutshell Halcyon,Joseph riding so many G1s is the giveaway!
The Coolmore dominance is easily explained...its not Ryan Moore, its not Aiden O Brien, it is Galileo
Also what must be taken into consideration is the team Magnier has put in place,excluding Ryan of course.
10 smacks with the stick there...and that's my argument
great for people who backed the fav
but a lot of trainers don't want their horses ridden like this
great for people who backed the fav
but a lot of trainers don't want their horses ridden like this
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