Got my doubts that there will ever be another Triple Crown wnner. There's not much respect for the St Leger these days in relation to the Arc.

i had given up on it barton but we nearly got one in 2012 so you never know,if john gosden can get a 2,000 guineas winner he might have a crack at it,ballydoyle as proven in 2012 might have another go.

You could argue that another US Triple Crown winner was even more unlikely, considering how weird 12f for a 3yo in June is in the context of American racing. Yet it finally happened.

But you're right that lack of respect (or more accurately fear of defeat) weighs on the Leger. For a nation which supposedly celebrates coming first above all else, it's funny how Americans at the same time seem to respect trying and failing. You only have to compare the numerous failed attempts at the Belmont before American Pharoah with the dreadful way Hamdan ducked the Leger with Nashwan.

Very true about the Americans, screaming. They never seem to duck a challenge with their horses.

Hi guys, diverted here by Sparrow. I spend most of my time in France so miss much of what goes on on here. It's a bit of shell though, don't you think.

Where do I stand on the Brigadier Gerard v Frankel issue? Let me think.

Brigadier Gerard won over a wider range of distances.
He won on a wider range of goings.
He won more Group 1 races
He was unbeaten in 15 races, not 14.
He beat better horses including a Derby and two Arc winners.
He broke 3 course records.

Baffert referred to Secretariat who raced at the same time as Brigadier Gerard with similar credentials.
He won over a wider range of distance than Arrogate.
Won on turf and dirt.
Smashed more course records.
Won more top races.
Beat better horses.

Both Arrogate and Frankel were fortunate in that they were born lucky. The best horse Arrogate beat was California Chrome even the Sporting Life's Ben Linfoot says the other horse he has beaten are second rate.
The best horse Frankel beat was Cirrus des Aigles who had been beaten 27 times before Frankel beat him. A horse who couldn't win a top Group 1 race in the heat of the season only before May or in October. When he ran in races the top horse were trained o win he couldn't win one.

When Dancing Brave raced, like Brigadier Gerard the top horses at 5f, 6f, 1m, 10f and 12f were from the UK and France and Dancing Brave beat them all. When Frankel was racing the top 5f horse was from Hong Kong, the top 6f horse was from Australia, the top miler from the US, the top 10f horse from Australia and the top 12f horse from Germany. And Frankel never met any of them.   

Foxy in the St James Palace Stakes the going was heavy and they had a flag start. When BG met the 2nd horse, Sparkler, a multiple Group 1 winner, he gave him 7lbs and beat him 6 lengths in course record time.

*four

As usual, brigust1, a fine defence of your champion ......

As I am sure most of us are, I am a massive fan of both these mighty beasts (and I was pretty good myself!!)

In spite of your evidence brigust1, I have my doubts about the Brigadier out sprinting Frankel ......

Good morning Crepello, I hope your legs are a lot better now.

I understand your questioning BG's ability to out sprint Frankel but can I remind you that when BG ran at York in the now named Juddmonte International a week before the race there was a lot of rain and the going looked like being soft at best so in order not to let down the racegoers at York BG was entered in the 5f Group 1 Nunthorpe Stakes to be run on the Thursday. That's how fast he was and don't forget he had just won the King George at Ascot over 12f.
Could you see Frankel ever doing that?

Thanks for your good wishes brigust1 !!!!

We just have to disagree - Frankel had speed to burn - Henry protected his champion and who can blame him for that given where he was at at the time .....

Great champions the both of them - just thinking about them puts a smile on my face.

That's OK Crepello we all have our favourites. I try to base my opinion only on the facts not on my opinion, unlike Asparagus.

The facts tell me that Henry Cecil was a top trainer so I suggest running a horse first time out over a straight mile on soft ground does not point to him having speed to burn. Similarly HC never ran him over 12f because he must have thought he would be vulnerable in the stamina department. To think otherwise is not to trust the trainer's judgement. BG did have speed to burn and took on winners in a conditions race over 5 furlongs first time out winning by a hard held 5 lengths and he did run over 12 furlongs on rain softened ground at potentially the stiffest 12f racecourse in the country.
Any other suggestions are purely conjecture and personal opinions. Nothing wrong with that of course but the facts don't back it up.

One thing I will say in Frankel's favour is that he had to endure the services of Tom Queally. I don't want to be unkind but he was only ever brought over as a job jockey for Barney. He would not be within 7lb of the likes of Mercer etc.

Is the thoroughbred bloodline progressing? Ie do they run faster now, than they did say 20 or 30 years ago? Or is that noting to do with progression and just down to the fact that they have no desire to do so like a human would drive them self to run on and break a record?

People are saying BG is better than Frankel. What sort of horse would BG have been with todays modern technology and advanced training methods? Also given, technology, training, blood testing feed etc have all advanced, has the racehorse got faster? Are racetimes faster now than BG's or previous eras? Would Sir Roger Bannister be as good as Seb Coe or worse?