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you going with crottley, knotty?
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no delta he don't drink.it's winter ladies day i will book you a seat. |
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foxy, i guess no Kelso for you this Sunday even if it does miss the snow?
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i never really cared for the gaff when they put the AW in, used to like the easter saturday there on the old turf track
always been surprised in 20 years following racing they only have one decent days jumping there a year |
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not sure intheknow a lot depends on the runners/weather for wetherby,kempton and kelso.
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fashion fever
which is the one day ? |
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Wetherby will be artic tomorrow foxy.
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i should stay at home really but been here all week not healthy doing nothing.
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I agree,tomorrows business is useless at the best of times but tomorrow will no doubt be even worse but I guess i'll turn up for the first appearance of the year.
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i should think i will go to kempton after all i cant spend the last 4 days up in arms over its possible closure and then not go.you never know might even get a members revolt going and hound anybody there from jcr.
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Wetherby are inspecting at 8.am foxy, I think it will be on myself.
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yes i saw there was an inspection ribero.
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Foxy on the picket line at Kempton. Now there's a thought - I must make sure to watch the National news !! Yes I know, before the smarties tell me, that's run at Aintree !!!
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i think it is the wise move to sacrifice one track as long as they invest all the monies in their other tracks cos whatever the defenders of kempton say it is a two day a year track and to for go 100 million pounds for that is ridiculous
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Is it **** what about the meeting in late Feb 3 gr 2s and a very good handicap chase the fixture the day after the festival the Monday in November where Albion made his chase debut.another thing the money will not be used to improve national hunt racing it will be used to keep Newmarket happy and to sort out there debts.
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so none of those races mentioned above could not be run elsewhere and still be satisfactory contests and wouldnt the crowds be at least the same.
remember we are talking of at least 100 million here!! |
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well we might as well close many more then as those races could also be run somewhere else why have thirsk when ripon is close by why have wincanton just run there races at taunton and so on.good card at kempton tomorrow.
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100 million they 115 million in debt
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i have this vision of Foxy shouting at his laptop
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i need a break intheknow |
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i cant believe how many people have been brain washed into thinking the only racing thats any good at kempton is the christmas meeting worse still some think only boxing day is any good,the truth is meeting for meeting kempton stages better jump racing than sandown but your not allowed to think that for some reason.
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Now stop it foxy - this is not a stage for putting across your anti- Sandown views !
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love sandown democrat always have but jump racing on the whole is better at kempton.
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youre not going to make 100 million shutting most tracks so that is a pointless arguement. i do lay at aw tracks but dont want more but can see a track at newmarket is realistic and probably should have been the first place to build one anyway and will certainly hit the fred done project which can only be good news
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yes the chelmsford part of it is good news and yes newmarket should have had one not great leighs right from the start jcr bhb or whoever was in charge at the time messed up but dont punish national hunt racing for there mistakes.
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Very good article by Tom Kerr in the RP today slating the jockey club.
foxy, entirely agree with the quality of the jumps cards outside of boxing day at Kempton, never missed a meeting for many years. |
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I quite agree with foxy that people are in danger of thinking that Kempton is only a one or two day meet a year.The NH cards invariably attract good quality horses ,particularly from Lambourne and no getting away from the fact it is one of the fairest courses in the country.
I shall be there today and will be interested to gauge the views of members.Am wearing green cords if anyone wants to come up and say hello. |
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Foxy you know the future is a streamlined product. Currently the sport is overegged with begging bowls from non profitable tracks staging egg and spoon betting shop fodder. You know this because you mention Thirsk, Ripon and I'll throw in Beverley as too much competition for the area in a sport of dwindling interest. Too many meeting have turned off seasoned punters, two a day midweek is sufficient and 4 at weekends. In the summer we could have an evening meeting every other day. Extend the cards to 8 races but the industry needs streamlining and the level of runners needs to improve and be racing to higher marks. If horses can't reach a mark of 65 then they aren't good enough to be racing, or at least betting on. All those not grading on can race each other entry monies at meeting organised by Always Trying.
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good morning ph
you may be surprised but i happen to agree with most of what you say,2 meetings a day 4 at the weekends without question is the way to go ,although more on bank holidays,8 race cards yes that would be good,i would go further and other than aw racing i would have no night racing,in the winter i like the irish approach to national hunt racing they tend to race thurs/fri/sat and sunday although for some reason it nearly always seems to be dundalk on a friday,you misunderstood my point about thirsk and ripon i merely picks those at random,other than chelmsford i dont want to see any race course close. |
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The racing writer of the year Tom Kerr savages the Jockey Club and grasping developers in the RP ...
YOU CAN almost imagine how the grandees on the Jockey Club board convinced themselves it was a good idea to sell off one of the sport's most treasured racecourses for housing. You can picture them sitting there, perhaps in the sumptuous Jockey Club Rooms in Newmarket, the walls lined with priceless artwork, as one by one they all agreed there was simply nothing else for it, the sport needed £100 million more than it needed historic Kempton. The track had to go. For the good of racing, you understand. Wrong, wrong, wrong. Never in my years of following racing have I seen a more misguided, crude, treacherous act of vandalism, and all perpetrated by the so-called guardians of British racing. This is gamekeeper turned poacher and the poacher has turned up at the estate with a barrel of napalm to burn the place to the ground. Each and every person associated with the decision should hang their heads in shame. How can they claim this is for the good of the sport? The Jockey Club has framed this decision as a commercial imperative, but the financial case for closing Kempton is far from being made. It would provide £100m, maybe more, towards £500m of planned investment over the next ten years, but the Jockey Club has failed to adequately explain why it is essential to pop Kempton on the table like a poker player chucking the wife's car keys into the pot. An all-weather track will be built in Newmarket and a plan to "transform" Sandown has been announced. If you think that is an equitable swap you're more than likely drinking your breakfast coffee in Suffolk, but what this is really about is a racecourse group unable to carry out its investment plans without cashing in one of its most valuable and profitable assets. Some will see that as pragmatic business sense but many more as evidence of a group that has lost its way. If we do accept that a sale of something is necessary, perhaps the Jockey Club could instead look to some of its considerable non-racecourse assets, which encompass 4,500 acres of land at Newmarket, 550 acres of land at Lambourn and 90 properties, including the aforementioned Jockey Club Rooms, which turned over just £1.24m in 2015. As has been pointed out elsewhere, the art collection that adorns the Jockey Club Rooms alone is worth tens of millions of pounds. That is an almost priceless piece of racing's heritage, just like Kempton, but unlike Kempton it is enjoyed principally by the rich, powerful and well-connected. The Jockey Club Rooms is a private members' club. Naturally, its art was never going to go. That's not how things work in this country. £100m for Kempton is not even a deal too good to turn down. The racecourse is worth so much more alive than dead. It sits amid the largest urban conurbation in western Europe and perhaps the richest city in history. That means it is an irresistible prize for property developers, who would pave over Hyde Park, turn the British Museum into a Westfield shopping centre and convert the Houses of Parliament to luxury flats if they could. That desirable location should make Kempton, with its excellent transport links, one of the sport's most prized possessions. Clearly it is underperforming: the track, while profitable and heaving on its busiest days, is frequently half-deserted. Yet I was there in 2010 among thousands of racegoers on a Wednesday night, lured to a winter all-weather meeting by free tickets. The atmosphere was tremendous, and is it not better to have several thousand eating, betting, drinking and - most crucially - enjoying racing, than several hundred paying for entry to a graveyard? Yet regular free nights were never trialled. It seemed sometimes as if the Jockey Club were happy enough to let Kempton rake in the millions in media rights payments rather than worry too much why it wasn't appealing more to the people on its doorstep. And as for those people: if Kempton goes, there will be just two racecourses inside the M25, an area home to around ten million. 'We must stand up and fight' Meanwhile, the Jockey Club proposes building a third racecourse in Newmarket, population 20,000. What a way to promote the sport. This is not just a commercial argument, however; it is an issue that brings to mind the hoary old Wilde quip about people who know the price of everything but the value of nothing. Racecourses are about more than just numbers, whatever philistine developers and detached racing grandees believe. A city without sport, without culture, without green spaces and relief from the sheer scale and crush of the place, is no place worth living. This is why the leader of Spelthorne council, who recognises this fundamental truth, is in the bizarre position of being the protector of Kempton against the Jockey Club and its property developer allies. Worst of all, though, is what this means for the King George VI Chase, arguably the fairest test of chasing excellence there is. This move will, in effect, kill it as a great race. Oh yes, transfer it to Sandown, where the similarities to Kempton extend as far as having grass and fences, and it will do all right: still draw a crowd, good horses, all that. But Kempton, as Desert Orchid's owner said this week, is unique because it rewards brilliance. Without that distinction the King George's prestige will be diminished, and what was the best chase outside of Cheltenham will become just another Grade 1. The significance of its history will fade and in times long hence no-one will speak of the epic King George legends of yesteryear, of Kauto Star and Dessie, because the track at which they achieved their feats of wonder is all Tarmac and Tescos, their towering achievements rendered perfectly irrelevant to the future. Eventually, many years down the line, there will just be a few old men left to carry the flicker of Kempton's past with them, to recall roaring home a great champion in the crisp cold air of Boxing Day. What will even be left of racing in that distant future? If a track as storied and profitable as Kempton, a track we all thought was in the safest of hands, cannot avoid redevelopment then where can? I am a believer in the need for cities to develop, to build and rejuvenate, but Kempton is not a failing business ripe for the culling or some derelict antique being kept alive for sentimental reasons. It is profitable. It is functional. It is loved. It is important to a local community and to a nationwide sport. Even at its worst, on those bleak winter evenings with a few hundred diehards huddled in the grandstand, it offers escapism from the vast city pressing at its gates. And at its best, on those frost-tinged Boxing Days when timeless heroes were forged, it was nothing short of glorious. For sporting, civic and historical reasons, it would be an appalling error to knock it down for overpriced houses. Yet this is the way the country is going. In London alone we stand poised to lose our last greyhound stadium, 40 per cent of music venues have shut in the past decade, dozens of historic pubs close every year. Millwall are in effect being evicted from their ground. The cause in every case: not lack of local use, but greed. Kempton is not an outlier; it sits smack bang in the middle of a trend that says 'knock it all down and sell it to the highest bidder'. When even the Jockey Club is joining the side of the destroyers it might seem like there is little hope left, but we must stand up and fight this. If we don't one day we may realise everything that was ever worth protecting is gone, ground to dust beneath the developers' bulldozers. SIGN HERE IF YOU VALUE THE DIVERSITY OF BRITISH RACING : https://www.change.org/p/stop-the-closure-of-kempton-park-racecourse |
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It appears that because Sandown is close geographically to Kempton moving the King George there is a seamless transition .
This of course is nonsense , the tests on the horse are very different. How many times does a Sandown finish get decided by horses running left and right as they struggle up the hill ......far more akin to the Gold Cup than the King George. If they are skint , perhaps just admitting it and why the family silver has to be sold would be understood........but the bluster of how on earth NH racing can be helped and improved by shutting down a jumps track and building more all weather is some story. And as for the 'home of racing' Newmarket being polluted with sand racing .........yeuuckkk |
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morning foxy, some have to close due to unprofitability. They are a drain with poor management, they haven't invested over the years in upgrading facilities and get even less attending nowadays. Lesser tracks can be used for pony racing or flapping to establish connections with racers of the future. Why more aw dirge? We have one decent card at Lingfield card quality wise. If I never had to study another Wolverhampton or Suvvell card it would be no loss to me. The prize money on offer surely can't be a miss to yards and lets remember the AW show performs to keep the tills ticking over on the High St. Now the shops have new focus they neither need nor I believe want the AW bandwagon. Yet the BHA or jockey club can't see the public never cottoned onto or clamoured for the AW. If we have days without racing due to weather then so what? So we agree to limit the product, minimise the meetings and maximise the runners,upgrade the level of performer and race for decent purses ( getting more triers, for fiscal attainment and to run to a level required to keep racing i.e running consistently to a mark subject to Veterinary reasons and a security officer allowing a continuance to race )
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poor management will be one of the reasons jcr are in so much debt haydock in particular has been badly run.i dont mind the tracks with poor facilities like catterick ,brighton,chepstow and wetherby by the way ph i dont know if you have ever been to thurles but they have no facilities but you cant help but love the place.we have flapping at howick not sure haw many punters turn up as i have never been i know it exists as a horse named after my wife ended her racing career there.
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interestingly enough as a counter to the sandown no good as a replacement the two KG contests run there were won by horses also successful at kempton and who thinks desert orchid, kauto star and thistlecrack for example would not have won sandown king georges
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interestingly enough as a counter to the sandown no good as a replacement the two KG contests run there were won by horses also successful at kempton and who thinks desert orchid, kauto star and thistlecrack for example would not have won sandown king georges
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Why have not those people that got 100 million in debt not been sacked?
Distraction from the truth? |
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almost all ftse businesses are run in debt
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metro
sacked ? they will get a bonus ! |
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Quite right foxy. One example I know of - I wont name the racecourse- was totally inept. Instead of getting rid he was appointed to another post. I think 'old school tie' counts for a great deal.
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I might have missed it but it appears to me most racing journalists are pretty pathetic.
If you are looking at financial management and what is going on surely if the chief executive of the Jockey Club was a Trustee as listed on the Jockey Club website of a charity in liquidation this would be big news? Is he the man to lead such a restructuring? Who knows but you would have thought it was worth talking about. |