There is currently 1 person viewing this thread.
He really does. I dont touch races he has a runner in now.
Genuinely hate the man and want nothing more than a slow torturous professional demise
Genuinely hate the man and want nothing more than a slow torturous professional demise
sort by:
Show
per page
Replies: 77
|
By:
agree
|
|
By:
I agree all the way but, today's winner wasn't exactly a hidden gem, he had the form in the book and the only one with small field scenario to help.
|
|
By:
I agree, along with.... J.P McManus, C. Brynes, T.Martin, Denis Hogan, Dagleish, Tim Vaughan, and many many more..... Jockeys, we will be here to midnight...
|
|
By:
I thought i was the only one, to be thinking like the OP
|
|
By:
i'm sure he does it to throw punters off.
he messes about with his horses so much its no wonder he hardly ever wins group ones, even though he gets better backing than anyone. i dont know if he bets but he sure doesn't like punters winning on his horses. when he gets a good horse he runs them into the ground & they hardly ever train on. all in all hes bad for racing. of course, its just my opinion |
|
By:
Always Trying? really , who is he trying to kid?
why would you have that as a yard slogan anyway just runs them obviously down the field...almost as bad as no.1 sinner Jp Mcmanus |
|
By:
just runs them obviously down the field
If you paid attention, you would have noticed that the stable's preferred running style is up with the pace. |
|
By:
i certainly pay attention..it is very noticeable when he jumps em out in front and when its clear today is a no go..they tend to 'leave them alone'
and its just the sheer quantity of runs they have..you might have form figures that look like this 0112OOO230000000001002000000000000001(40/1) How can any punter make any sense of that i heard instead of 'training them at home, he runs them on the course..and of course is'always trying' also that his stable is a bit of a factory...and i thought Braveheart was alright never known a trainer so widely disliked for his pattern of running horses and ridiculous results |
|
By:
Do you think Charlie Appleby, Stoute and Gosden runners in hcps bounce back more or less often than MJ runners after they have been beaten 10l or more lto in a hcp?
Both in terms of % strike rates in this scenario and also actual vs expected winners, these 3 trainers are all more likely to return to the winner's enclosure. |
|
By:
enigma
 |
|
By:
If you look at his hcp runners that were beaten 2l or less (including lto winners) again running in a hcp NTO Stoute,Suroor, Fahey,Charlton,Cumani all are no better at converting with % strike rates or actual/expected winners.
The erratic nature of the runners is not something I've ever been able to demonstrate. It's a common perception but it doesn't hold up, certainly not with hcp runners. Whether MJ gets the best out of his horses is another matter entirely I know plenty feel he should get better results from the stock he has. |
|
By:
8 st 9lbs or less last 14 days,l l won 8/1 isp,l ,won7/1 isp .+12 isp off 5.
 |
|
By:
200 horses runs them more than most,hard to win races so obviously the more races they run the more inconsistent they are,look at this years group ones especialy the sprints different winner every race,in years gone by top sprinters,stayers would rack up a sequence of wins doesnt happen very often these days,the so called best yard,best trainer in the world obrien,s horses are even more inconsistent than MJ,S just at a different level
|
|
By:
Mark Johnston does something that NO other trainer can do...
He is able to get very exposed horses to improve when it is felt they have reached their ceiling. Others can do this on occasion obviously but he is able to do it time and time again. I find that amazing and I am by no means a fan of his - in fact, I go along with the opinion expressed by the OP |
|
By:
saying all that he does my nut in as well, would loved to have bet oriental fox but his last 2 runs were shocking,but his presence in the race made me wary of backing the fav
|
|
By:
he,s going to be a bigger nightmare than usual next year,because he,s changed his MO this season he,ll have loads of 3 yr old sprinters next year notoriously hard to place in their 2nd season
|
|
By:
He found a good race for oriental fox who clearly has struggled of it's rating this season in hcps. The odds on fav hadn't won a race for over a year, yes it had been running in group company this year but it hadn't actually won a race above yesterdays class. The 2nd fav was stuffed like OF in the cesarewitch, yesterday's race was a race that did have plenty of question marks over the rivals.
|
|
By:
*off it's rating
|
|
By:
1TP
The relaxing of the 3yo allowance in the 3yo+ hcps will be an interesting factor next season. |
|
By:
Sounds interesting SE
Remind me next season what it is Yes Dasher btw |
|
By:
3yo's not getting so much weight allowance in hcps against their elders hatters.
|
|
By:
Good thread totally agree with the comment above regarding horses exposed suddenly out of the blue flying home. I laid his 50/1 winner last week 25s in running and lost all that I'd won that weekend and more.
Never again will I touch a race with his horses in. Enigma describes him brilliantly. I think he's already stated he has little respect for punters. |
|
By:
The point i was trying to make is that they don't transform half as much as is the perception by many and not in terms of other trainers people seem to think are more reliable.
you layed a big priced winner so you won't touch anything he is involved in now ? |
|
By:
Johnston's great advantage is that he is able to get his horses to race prominently or make the running if necessary. This must be something he trains into them. It's hugely advantageous in mid summer with the small fields you often get. This factor is one of the biggest indictments of his fellow trainers, who are often heard whinging that their star horse lost yet another race due to a lack of pace etc etc. Johnston is proof that the vast majority of horses can be trained to perform from the front, and that therefore the vast majority of trainers are failing to maximise the potential of many of their horses.
|
|
By:
Howellsy go back to bed for yourself and stop talking sh ite. Johnston is proof that the vast majority of horses can have form figures of 00000510010000000001. He is a shocking trainer and should be investigated by the BHA. The likes of Tony Martin etc are saints compared to him.
|
|
By:
Howellsy statement can be backed up by results in the small fields during the summer months, not sure too much of this other bluff on here can.
|
|
By:
He says the vast majority of horses can be trained to perform from the front. Wow ground breaking statement there. If all horses were trained and ridden like the Johnston horses i dont think anyone would be betting on horse racing.
|
|
By:
It is surely better to start a horse off by training it to come from off the pace. It is much easier to train it to win from the front if this fails, than vice versa. Seen many a horse ruined by trainers galloping them flat out.
|
|
By:
A horse that is settled should be able to run from anywhere in the field. They are bred to gallop so whilst you are entitled to your opinion I'm not sure I'd give any credence to it.
I want to know primarily how this alleged erratic form of his runners is manifested in fact. If trainers like Gosden and Stoute and many others are scoring more frequently and in fact more than the market expects with horses that were well beat lto, how does this fit? |
|
By:
horrible individual who i despise with a passion wished he would **** off out of racing
|
|
By:
Stridingedge, I can tell you from experience, if you start a two year old off to ping the stalls and go from the front, it is a hell of a task to get them settled enough to hold them up in the future.
|
|
By:
I'm sure you know best
|
|
By:
He ruins his horses and as a vet and a trainer with so many years experience he is utterly clueless.He is also erratic even though there is no tangible evidence of this put forward and his placement of runners is random and scatter gun even though he repeats the same methods year after year to get a lot of his winners.
OK I've got it.Thanks for all your input guys. |
|
By:
I remember when he was interviewed a few years ago when he said that in his view ALL handicap races should be banned. He said that horses should run on their own merits without having additional weight attached to them!
|
|
By:
stride, how many in your table won 8 st 9lbs below?
|
|
By:
nice too see that one get touched off..go white chocolate..obviously doesnt train em off
|
|
By:
Johnston horses are not always easy to evaluate because he runs them frequently and is not scared to lose. I don't see this as a problem though, as punters its up to us to assess each horse. I trust Johnston horses to be trying much more than i do most stables.
|
|
By:
as ive said he does my head in as well but as alot of his horses go from the front its basicaly shoite or bust,lots of the unplaced ones could probably have finished placed or further up the field if they,d forfeited a winning chance by been ridden more conservatively,obviously working out which ones is why our heads are scrambled ,
 |
|
By:
I'd certainly think the front running style which largely prevails is responsible for horses being beaten further than they may have been. I'd think many feel plenty of his have reached their level but then they go up in trip and extra is found especially with regards the 3yo and even 4yo handicappers.
Coming back to erratic though,very unexposed runners at distance (I have classed as 0 or 1 run at trip) running in hcps after being beaten 2l or less (including won lto), these runners just don't deviate negatively from other high profile trainers or the general sample. They are not more unreliable from run to run in this scenario and anyone who thinks they are needs to state exactly what variables they are basing this on. Similarly at the other end of the scale more exposed to very exposed runners at distance (5+ runs at trip) running in hcps that were beaten 10l or more last time do not deviate positively from other trainers and unlike the gains from those you may expect with this type of runner M Appleby,S Dixon,P Midgley, D Evans et al, Johnston's runners show big losses to BFSP, they rarely come to life with this profile. No doubt a few more will appear to say he's a horrible man and his horses are unreadable but will they give me something to get my teeth into that is worth anything in fact. I'm not trying to get up peoples noses but this general perception on this trainer somehow standing away from others with regards erratic runners just cannot be verified from anything I've studied. |