^sorry B our posts overlapped.

I'm wrong about Eddery riding him - the years don't add up. Memory fail there.

Sept 13th 1969 to be exact. Knotty Pine R Hutchinson won by 8 lengths at 9/2.

thanks for the reply brigust i had a feeling mill reef would be the answer i can only go back to what i saw 77 the minstral was my first year your modern day call dancing brave would have been my 2nd best.

ged and I forgot to look at my 69 Timeform.  He was well backed for that Newbury race apparently.  T are perhaps understandingly dismissive though - "Brilliant hurdler but is only a moderate staying handicapper on flat"

Thanks Onlooker that's great. Mind you I now have to convince a friend the Reg didn't win 2 races in him. Thank you.

Thanks Foxy. Can I say they are not my picks emotionally I do actually think that is what the ratings should show. If these horses were all running today what would have happened?
Well BG would not have run in the Juddmonte because he was clearly a sick horse and the scopes, we never had them then, would have shown that. Also he wouldn't have had to carry penalties in the Lockinge, Prince of Wales Stakes and QE11 because they are now Group 1 so it is likely he would have won these more easily and by further. 
Mill Reef would have swerved the Coronation Cup because he was found to be suffering from the virus going round his stable.
Nijinsky was suffering from ringworm at the time he won the Leger so he may have missed that given today's restrictions and could possibly have won the Arc instead.
Sea Bird, Dancing Brave and Frankel no change required.
So I think achievement wise the list I gave you is just about right and if the ratings guys were honest they would show that as well. But please don't tell anyone eh?

Tf have DB and Nij on the same rating today so I guess had Nij won the Arc, and through Blakeney who finished 4th, he clearly should have done then I guess he would have edged DB. The BHA for 30 years had DB on a rating that put him ahead of Fr until they recalibrated (hugely suspect) imo. Sea Bird 11 did well over a short period but deserves to be up there whereas BG and MR proved themselves over a wider range of distances and a longer period. So when you pull it all together you have BG, MR, SB, Nij/DB and finally Fr.

GYR was well-regarded, especially by the press - as were all French challengers at the time - partly because he was one of Sea-Bird's first offspring.

He had won his two French trials before the Derby - and went on to win the Grand Prix de Saint-Cloud following Epsom.

NIJINSKY actually beat GYR (4th) a length further in the Arc, than at Epsom, when GYR was runner-up.
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Nijinsky’s winning the Triple Crown was a magnificent achievement, but it came at a price.

“The Leger would not have helped his preparation for the Arc,” O’Brien reflected, and 22 days later, Nijinsky was controversially beaten in Paris – his first defeat following 11 successive wins.

For Piggott, the writing had been on the wall before the race.

“Longchamp on Arc day is always packed, but in 1970 it was heaving with people who had come to see Nijinsky,” he recalled. “Too many of these worshippers were inside the paddock, and with camera crews and photographers fighting in a desperate scrum to get shots of the most famous horse in the world on his biggest day, Nijinsky became very stirred up. By the time I walked into the parade ring, he was pouring sweat, and there was a look of panic in his eye.”

The Triple Crown winner was beaten a head by Sassafras, and argument raged about whether Piggott had left too much ground for Nijinsky to make up in the short straight. The rider was characteristically unapologetic.

“Certainly Nijinsky would have won had he not swerved almost in the shadow of the post, and certainly he would have won had his initial finishing run not been blocked on the final bend,” Piggott said.

But no matter how many times you studied the replay of that contentious contest, Nijinsky had been beaten, and with retirement beckoning, Engelhard and O’Brien agreed that the colt should have one more race, in order to end a famous career on a winning note.

Thirteen days after the Arc, Nijinsky was at Newmarket for the Champion Stakes, and again Piggott entered the paddock to an alarming sight.

“The moment I saw Nijinsky in the parade ring, I could tell that he had not got over the Arc experience: He was a nervous wreck, and the huge crowd, which had turned out to bid him farewell, just made matters worse. In the race, he never gave me the old feeling, and when I asked him to go on and win there was precious little response.”

Nijinsky was beaten a length and a half by Lorenzaccio – according to Piggott, “a good horse, but one Nijinsky in his prime could have picked up and carried.”

Thanks for the details on Persian War, onlooker.

He made his debut over hurdles on 26th October at Ascot, for Tom Masson, so perhaps that is why he is listed under his name at the end of the flat season. He was beaten on that debut, receiving weight, in a 5-runner race. Surprisingly (!), it was the 2nd division of a juvenile hurdle - the first div had 8 runners. The card was a mixed one. Joe Mercer had one mount on the card, in the following race, for Peter Walwyn. Coincidentally, Mugatpura, who became a rival for Persian War over hurdles, and won the Fighting Fifth, was running in a 7f race in the last race on the card.

Just imagine Nijinsky owned by Charles Engelhard, trained by Vincent O'Brien and ridden by Lester Piggott. Talk about a press frenzy.

Can't have it, sorry.  another Tf stitch up.

i am not for one minute suggesting he could compare with the greats you mention brigust but on his last performance you could never be sure how he would have gone on for the rest of his time racing.

You could say that about Sea Bird, Dancing Brave, Mill Reef and Nijinsky but that would only be guesswork foxy.

no you couldnt they all ran again after there best performances.

Although he won 6 races in his career - Harbinger's greatness can only be judged on that one performance in the King George & Queen Elizabeth Stakes.

Rather like Hawk Wing's win in the Lockinge - by, a remarkably coincidental, similar 11 lengths.

Although, as foxy points out - who knows what Harbinger may have on to achieve.
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Whilst we are talking about 'double-digit' distance winners -

This thread has not thrown up SHERGAR, yet - 10 lengths at Sandown, 12 lengths in the Chester Vase, and 10 lengths, again, in the Derby.

Onlooker that race in which you say promoted him to greatness was fatally flawed. I cannot for one single moment believe it was anything other than a scam by Tf and immediately put me on my guard from them and, true to form their deftness at inaccuracy continued.

Yeah, I thought it Grundy and Bustino (1975). Surely, The Brigadier was a different era before then. I remember Grundy and a 10cc song being in the charts at the same time, 'Life Is a Minestrone.' Grundy was a really striking looking horse and goes down as one of my favourite Derby winners of all time. Have really liked loads of Derby winners and had luck backing them including Shirley Heights, Troy, Slip Anchor, Shahrastani (although Dancing Brave should have won), Reference Point, Lammtarra and Sea The Stars. One of my luckiest races, although recent years a bit lean

Foxy I sent a message.

another horse who falls into the harbinger category as in his best performance was his last performance before injury was golden fleece impossible to say where he would of ranked among the great middle distance horses.