Forums
There is currently 1 person viewing this thread.
themightymac
21 Sep 16 18:17
Joined:
Date Joined: 05 Apr 02
| Topic/replies: 35,029 | Blogger: themightymac's blog
What a great horse he was. I may be wrong but I think Matt McCormack (future trainer) looked after him.

I thought his colours were in a race at Beverley yesterday but they weren`t. Very very similar though except the sleeves. Dr Carlo Vittadini owned some great horses over the years and there is a G2 race, Premio Carlo Vittadini, staged at Milan in his memory.

Habat was a great 2-y-o and first horse I can remember him running in this country was Brook who finished 4th in the Queen Anne Stakes and was awarded the race? Then there was Orange Bay (his third Italian Derby winner after Ortis and Ardale) all trained in Italy by Mario Benetti and later the Peter Walwyn horses including Patch, who almost landed him his 4th European Derby in 1975 when failing narrowly by a short head to Val de L`Orne.

Henry Cecil trained a few for him including Quexioss who won 3 races in 1987 and I think Luca Cumani also trained for him during this period?



No one will ever forget the clash with the Brigadier in the King George VI at Ascot which was dubbed the race of the Century.

Post your reply

Text Format: Table: Smilies:
Forum does not support HTML
Insert Photo
Cancel
Page 1 of 3  •  Previous 1 | 2 | 3 | Next
sort by:
Show
per page
Replies: 112
By:
themightymac
When: 21 Sep 16 18:19
And do you remember his daughter Franca Vittadini a great jockey who won the Ladies Diamond Race at Ascot on King George VI day at least 4 times? I wonder what became of her?
By:
foxy
When: 21 Sep 16 18:21
bustino was the horse he beat in the king george.
By:
onlooker
When: 21 Sep 16 18:31
Mattie McCormack - future trainer of Horage, and others - was Peter Walwyn's Travelling Head Lad

Ray Laing - future trainer - was Head Lad
Alan Bailey - future trainer - was his Feeder
Pat Eddery was retained jockey

No wonder Peter Walwyn had a golden era
-----------
By:
onlooker
When: 21 Sep 16 18:33
^ - and then the whinging Wildenstein came along.
By:
foxy
When: 21 Sep 16 18:44
peter walwyn
By:
foxy
When: 21 Sep 16 18:45
sorry that should have said peter walwyn conducted many interviews with future staff over a game of ludo.
By:
themightymac
When: 21 Sep 16 18:46
LaughLaugh Thanks foxy for clarifying that typo error. Honest guv, I ain`t had a drop, yet Crazy
By:
themightymac
When: 21 Sep 16 18:50
Peter Walwyn was a legend as a trainer but he came across as a hard man to work for. Was he Fulke`s brother or cousin or no relation? He stood by Eddery and told Wildenstein to remove his horses following the Buckskin saga. Pity Pat didn`t show the same loyalty when he jumped ship to Ballydoyle.
By:
lead on
When: 21 Sep 16 18:50
I remember backing Bold Shot,trained by Ray Laing,beaten by Steve Cauthen's first winner over here..Marquee Universal...bit off topic but...
By:
verbotene liebe
When: 21 Sep 16 19:22
Another in the Vittadini colours was Saros, who was runner up to The Minstrel in the 1977 Dewhurst.
Think the yard had the virus in the late 70's and was gradually going downhill and the owners started to leave. People forget that Nureyev was in the yard straight from the Keenland Sales - he was moved to Boutin before he ever ran as the Niarchos family realised things were not right though they kept some in the yard - Cracking Form being one.
By:
Lee Ho Fooks
When: 21 Sep 16 19:34
Grundy's record could have been better if he hadn't had a few bits of bad luck at the start of his 3-y-o season. From memory he was held up in his work leading up to the guineas when he was badly kicked in the face by another horse in the yard/on the gallops (Consol or Corby ring a bell) then on Guineas day there was a stable lads strike & they ran the Guineas with a flag start at about the 7 to 7 and a half furlong mark & he was pipped by the specialist miler Bolkonsi (ridden by Lanfranco Dettori, Frankie's dad)Sad
By:
brigust1
When: 21 Sep 16 20:51
I saw Humble Duty win the 1970 1000 Guineas by 7 lengths the widest margin that century. She won the Coronation Stakes and Sussex Stakes among others. She was the top rated 2 year old 7lbs behind Nijinsky. Brilliant on her day. Trained by Peter Walwyn.
By:
themightymac
When: 21 Sep 16 21:39
Anybody remember the horses that Franca Vittadini won the Ladies Race at Ascot on?
By:
verbotene liebe
When: 21 Sep 16 22:16
Too wine induced to look in the books but think aforementioned Cracking Form is one of them.
On the subject of Orange Bay - does everyone remember the old Schweppes Calendars before they spoilt them with 'action' photographs from the late 80's onwards. Originally each month would have a horse on the lawn in the yard with jockey up in silks. Just 12 horses for the year, split between NH and flat and most were deserving. However, I think PT Walwyn had the second luckiest to get included - St Leger placed Classic Example -the luckiest was Stoute's Schweppshire Lad, owned by the firm themselves.
By:
themightymac
When: 21 Sep 16 22:21
Here is a great article by Alistair Down on Peter Walwyn.

Peter Walwyn is a cult figure among those who abhor the petty tyrannies of the politically correct. Some of his views might have the more liberal denizens of Hampstead choking on their muesli of a morning but there are two things to bear in mind about Walwyn. First, there is a rugged kindness that underpins his outlook and, second, he is a very fine character actor and the role he has become quite brilliant at is playing himself.

And to talk to him is to take great leaps back in British history. His father fought in the Boer War and on the Western Front and must have been a notably courageous officer, as he was awarded the Military Cross and DSO and was mentioned in dispatches on three occasions.

It is incredible to relate that Walwyn's grandfather was at the Second Relief of Lucknow during the Indian Mutiny of 1857, an engagement of such unbridled ferocity that on November 16 of that year more VCs were won - a total of 24 - than on any other day in military history.

Walwyn says: "My father was a far better horseman and horse master than I have ever been. He was involved in the opening artillery barrage of the war in 1914," and by way of proof he pops into the next room and returns with the polished brass casing of a 13-pounder shell. You might think Walwyn's National Service rank as corporal in the Intelligence Corps marked something of a disappointment in terms of a military career, but he says: "I had back trouble which meant I was refused a commission, but that actually rebounded to my advantage. "I had undoubtedly led something of a sheltered life as a boy but suddenly I was thrust into a different world with people from absolutely every walk of life. It gave me insight and understanding into ordinary, everyday people and the lives they lead. It was invaluable." His first job in racing was with Geoffrey Brooke in Newmarket. Brooke had been private trainer to Major Lionel Holliday, a hugely successful Yorkshire owner-breeder of fiery temperament and a choleric disposition. One day Holliday rang up and said: "Brooke, what happened to my filly at Ripon last night? One of my friends said she didn't run well and she didn't look well either." Brooke replied: "I did not know you had any friends" and put the phone down.

If that was brave, he showed it was no flash in the pan by taking on Walwyn as his first pupil-assistant when he set up on his own in 1952. Walwyn says: "I was in charge of the bottom yard, which was a sea of mud and populated entirely by completely wild Irish lads. But we had a wonderful head man, Bob Ruttle, and I began to learn about feeding and dealing with problem horses. "In those days a lot of horses still went to places like Doncaster and Manchester by special train with a carriage for the travelling head lads, then the horses and a guard's van on the back." Out of the blue Walwyn was approached by his first cousin Helen Johnson Houghton, sister of Fulke Walwyn, to join her at Blewbury. Her husband Gordon, an immensely promising trainer, had been killed in a hunting accident back in 1951. As women were not officially allowed to train, others had held the licence for her, and now she wanted Peter to do so.

Mrs Johnson Houghton was a horsewoman of towering reputation and Walwyn stayed for five successful years before the moment came to strike out on his own. Peter and Bonk were married in January 1960 and later that year they bought Windsor House in Lambourn and for pounds 12,000 got a nice Georgian house and two cottages which included a hostel, 30 boxes and 11 acres. HE RECALLS: "Our first winner was with our second ever runner, Don Verde ridden by John Lawrence [now Oaksey] in a novice hurdle at Worcester when, despite making a hash of the second-last, they won by eight lengths." In 1961 a yearling arrived who would become one of Walwyn's stalwarts. From 1963 Be Hopeful won every year for a decade and landed his last triumph at Brighton in 1973 at the age of 14. He trained many finer racehorses but none more durable. But it is Seven Barrows that became the yard indelibly associated with Walwyn and he bought it off Henry Candy's father, Derrick, in late 1965. Walwyn says: "It was a fabulous place but it needed a huge amount doing to it.

The lads' hostel had more rats than the Pied Piper led out of Hamelin and the stables needed complete renovation with new floors. "We had our first winner, Crozier, from Seven Barrows at Easter 1966 and training is only about winners because it is winners that keep owners and stop them looking over their shoulders to see if the grass is greener elsewhere." In just a couple of years the yard took off and by 1969 he was approaching the pinnacle of his profession. Lucyrowe won the Coronation Stakes at Royal Ascot - where Town Crier took the Queen Anne - then the Nassau Stakes. Humble Duty, with stable jockey Duncan Keith up, took the Lowther and the Cheveley Park before sealing her greatness by taking the following season's 1,000 Guineas, Coronation and Sussex Stakes. Walwyn says: "Once a year I still read George Lambton's famous book 'Men and Horses I Have Known' as you always find something more in it. I never forgot his dictum to trainers, 'curb your curiosity', by which he meant don't keep going and asking them questions at home that should only be answered on the racecourse. It is very easy to do, particularly on the hills round here." It was Grundy who provided Walwyn with the zenith of his career.

He says: "We went to Overbury, the Holland-Martin stud in Gloucestershire, and there was this flashy looking bugger, but he had great style about him and their very knowledgeable stud groom Peter Diamond said, 'This is a horse you should buy'. "Usually it took a month to break a horse in but Grundy was boisterous and he took two. It is all about steady perseverance, getting their mouth right and their deportment and never, under any circumstance being cruel. "He looked encouraging in his early work, so one morning I worked him with a three-year-old who had won a handicap on the heath day of Royal Ascot. "You sit there all those mornings on your hack and perhaps six or eight times in a lifetime one will go past that sends that cold shiver down your spine. It is the fascination of excellence - seeing a horse you have broken in from nothing suddenly change into something else in front of your eyes. Grundy was the most marvelous mover and as tough as old boots." If there is one place Walwyn loves as deeply as he does Lambourn it is Epsom on Derby Day.

A lifelong water colourist who still goes to lessons once a week, he says: "William Frith's magnificent painting Derby Day captures it all - toffs, touts and tarts, a complete microcosm of life. "I had already trained the runner-up twice before Grundy won. I watched it from Lord Derby's box and I am sure I deafened the lot of them and after the race we all went up to be congratulated by the Queen, which was marvelous. "It turned into a very long day. On the way home we stopped as a pee was needed and there was some graffiti on the wall which read 'the future of England is in your hands' and on that day I remember thinking that it probably was.

"We had a great party when we got home and one of our oldest friends, who was quite mad, turned up at midnight in a black cab still in his top hat with yet another case of champagne. He was still here three days later and when we finally got rid of him he got on the wrong train and ended up somewhere in Somerset rather than London." And, of course, Grundy's defeat of Bustino in the King George was yet to come. It is hard to define why many believed it to be the race of the century. After all there have been even closer finishes in the big race and greater winners, though not many.

But ask anyone who watched it and they will tell you of the immediate certainty they felt as they trooped down from the stands that there had been something primal and almost savagely noble about the struggle they had witnessed. Everyone just knew in their marrow that Grundy and Bustino would be talked about as long as there were people left on the planet to whom hard battles between horses on high summer grass were matters of importance. OF COURSE, Walwyn's black and white persona inevitably led to the occasional drama and disagreement with owners, none more so than with the Wildensteins, whom he regards with a cordial loathing to this day. The horses came to Walwyn from Angel Penna in France, and mastering his distaste Walwyn says: "One day there should be a party for the former trainers of the Wildensteins and I think the Albert Hall would be a very suitable venue. Alec Wildenstein was always the most troublesome of them all. After Buckskin, who had the most awful feet in the world, was fourth in the Gold Cup they said that Pat Eddery was not to ride for them again. Having counted to about 100 I told them that if Pat couldn't ride 'em they could go and take their horses with them. They went the following morning." It was perhaps the skirmishes with the Wildensteins and others that led Walwyn to invent his famous bus that is always on its way over Beachy Head packed with those he would happily never see again. He says: "That Alec Wildenstein is the driver and Willie Carson is the conductor. And the other people I don't get on with each has a seat in the window with the best view as they go over the cliff. Job done." For all his occasional bombast Walwyn has been hugely touched by having had nearly 500 letters of congratulation since the announcement of his MBE. Lameness apart, he is in good form, but even if he wasn't he would never let on. Three years ago he had a major scare, but even that has passed into legend, and Bonk takes up the tale: "We were coming back in the car from seeing the grandchildren and he was mumbling away a bit more than usual. I said 'Peter, are you having a stroke?' and he replied 'I don't know, I've never had one before'." She adds: "Another time when he had a bad fall out hunting he went a very odd colour, so we shot him into hospital. Eventually, before they let him out, a very serious doctor came to me and said 'Mrs Walwyn, I am afraid he may not be quite the same as other people. He could be a bit tricky, have mood swings and jump up and down and shout a bit'."

History does not relate whether the doctor was surprised or reassured to receive the reply, "Nothing new there then". It is unlikely that Lambourn ever had a greater benefactor and friend than Walwyn and last Monday there was a not-much-of-a-surprise party for him at Oaksey House with more than 90 on hand to celebrate his forthcoming gong. Bonk says: "It was a marvellous and, I must admit, an emotional occasion. His mother and father weren't too keen on him going into racing - they thought it was a 'bit fast' as they used to say. But we've been here in Lambourn 52 years, have survived and still love it and its people. "He is so chuffed about his MBE, completely thrilled. Mind you, our daughter Kate and I have had to have new outfits for Windsor Castle and when he sees the inroads we've made in his cheque book he may be lost for words for once! But life's about laughing - at least it always has been here."

What they say about Peter Walwyn ... He is a curiously difficult man to assess and all that Basil Fawlty stuff belittles him and his record. Back in the 1970s it was Peter and Henry Cecil who were always hammering on each other's door in terms of big races and championships.

Henry had the advantage of being the younger man and there was a fierce degree of competition between them and not much love lost, although I don't know exactly why. Peter achieved a huge amount, particularly in the glory days of Humble Duty and Grundy, and for some years he seemed to win just about every Classic trial going. He was remarkably consistent and hugely successful, although as everyone knows he lost a few owners along the way. Towards the end of his career he suffered, rather like me, from owners growing old, falling off the perch or taking to strong drink! But he has been a splendid turfiste of very long standing and, like many others, I am delighted for him that he has got this MBE. He has been blessed with the most splendid wife and I have great admiration for the pair of them.

P Walwyn is lucky in that he doesn't really care what the rest of the world thinks. He has a huge heart that means well, but there is an element of "my way is the right way" and everyone else is just wrong. It is all black and white with him and that can come over as arrogance in remarks like "my horses are too fast to catch a virus", which was something of a hostage to fortune and wouldn't endear him to anyone struggling with sick horses. Yet he couldn't care less where someone has come from, or that they have a humble background, because he has always wanted to be a giver and seeing the good side of people is an important part of him - just look at all the work he has done providing housing in Lambourn. And his staff loved him and many stayed with him for donkey's years.

And Bonk is a miracle - just like a second heart pumping away next to Pete's. As in all great marriages she makes a virtue of his faults as well as enjoying his gifts - she's always jolly and makes everything fun. If Pete lost a dog in the mincer she'd make a great story of it, which would always be accompanied by a decent gin and tonic. He and Bonk adopted two children and that is all about having a big heart as well, isn't it? I've said before that he is someone to celebrate because he is a character who has the self-belief to stay one. And, most of all, his enthusiasm is enduring and undimmed - something that is rarer and more admirable than you might think.

COPYRIGHT 2012 MGN LTD
No portion of this article can be reproduced without the express written permission from the copyright holder.
Copyright 2012 Gale, Cengage Learning. All rights reserved.
By:
themightymac
When: 21 Sep 16 22:22
Sadly his wife Bonk has passed away since the article was written.
By:
themightymac
When: 21 Sep 16 22:22
He was a wonderful trainer and is a great character of the Turf.
By:
themightymac
When: 21 Sep 16 22:27
Yes VL, I remember the Schweppes calendars well. Some terrific photos on the old ones like you say. A bit like this one below of Glint Of Gold

By:
blackbarn
When: 21 Sep 16 22:34
fine article by Down. I particularly like the Grundy quote from Walwyn....

"He looked encouraging in his early work, so one morning I worked him with a three-year-old who had won a handicap on the heath day of Royal Ascot. "You sit there all those mornings on your hack and perhaps six or eight times in a lifetime one will go past that sends that cold shiver down your spine".
By:
verbotene liebe
When: 21 Sep 16 22:50
Yep, just like that' something nostalgically warming about them. There were actually some action photos in the 70's - Davy Lad jumping last in the Gold Cup, Red Rum jumping the last in the National - Night Nurse and Monksfield in action too, plus home gallop ones - Godswalk and The Minstrel( but not together of course) - however, from the late 80's they were all action, some zoomed in too close, soulless photos . As if they thought, jockey in silks on horse at home is something outdated like cigarette cards.
Great Down article, there was also plenty of good PT Walwyn stuff in 'Pat On The Back' published end of 75 or early 76, a good read if you can forget the Claude Duval is the author. The PT Walwyn biography is an OK read too though imo no better than that. Lots of stuff left out.
By:
ged
When: 21 Sep 16 22:55
I remember the Schweppes calendars because my uncle worked in the Schweppes distribution factory in Sidcup, so always had the calendar up on the wall of their house. He and my aunt both had betting accounts with Copes, then Hills (so had back copies of the Copes yearbooks). I loved looking through the colour pictures. Black and white TV in those days (very early 60s) made the colour pictures seem very special.
By:
blackbarn
When: 21 Sep 16 23:13
ged - good stuff, and reminded me that my complete and mint collection of Schweppes Calendars went to a "silly" offer from a friend. Never got around to replacing them although they are easily available. I have still got all my Uncle Jack's Cope's Encyclopaedias though!!!
By:
themightymac
When: 22 Sep 16 00:01
blackbarn, have you got the complete set of Copes? Do you know when they started publishing and when they ended? They were great little books. Hardback too. No cutting corners back in the day. The internet has killed off these wonderful little year books that were great to get. Sad
By:
themightymac
When: 22 Sep 16 00:02
I think PW doesn`t like WC. I got that impression after reading the article Laugh
By:
onlooker
When: 22 Sep 16 00:08
COPE'S Racegoers's Encyclopedia - First published in 1939 - then again in 1940.

No editions during rest of Second World War

Resumed in 1946 up to 1962
By:
blackbarn
When: 22 Sep 16 00:16
The pre-war issues are seasons 1938/39 and 1939/40. The post war copies are titled according to the following racing season year. Starting with 1946 and ending in 1962. I think!!
By:
blackbarn
When: 22 Sep 16 00:18
Onlooker - I believe we are in violent agreementCool.
By:
themightymac
When: 22 Sep 16 18:17


By:
themightymac
When: 22 Sep 16 18:20

HUMBLE DUTY


POLYGAMY


HABAT
By:
themightymac
When: 22 Sep 16 18:21

HUMBLE DUTY


DUNCAN KEITH
By:
verbotene liebe
When: 22 Sep 16 22:29




By:
brigust1
When: 23 Sep 16 08:18
Polygamy is a fond memory. My sister in law looked after the Queens horse Highclere who met Polygamy twice as a 2 year old. The first time Polygamy beat her 3 lengths but next time she showed she had improved because she beat Polygamy at Ascot. Highclere then won her next race and was put away for the Guineas. Polygamy won again and won her Guineas trial. Highclere went straight for the Guineas without a run and wore blinkers for the time.
Over the winter a number of us backed Highclere at 33s for the Guineas with Lads and a couple of us also doubled up with Red Rum at 10s for the Grand National. She had the beating of Polygamy on form, wore blinkers for the first time and Polygamy was favourite. She only won by a short head but she then went on to win the Prix Diane and finish 2nd to Dahlia in the King George. And to put the icing on the cake Polygamy won the Oaks. Happy days.
By:
foxy
When: 23 Sep 16 08:49
good morning brigust

nice story as you say happy days.

we all know who you think is the best horse you ever saw ,but who do you think was the 2nd best ?
By:
ged
When: 23 Sep 16 09:23
brigust - were you there in '66, and if so do you remember Persian War being there? It says on his Wiki page that Astor studs switched him to Tom Masson as a 3yo for whom he won staying handicaps at Salisbury and Wolverhampton, but according to the Glasgow Herald newspaper, he was trained and ridden by Dick Hern and Joe Mercer when he won at Wolverhampton on Aug 2, 1966 over 2m1f at 11/4, and given the comment and the price, I'm presuming that was the 2nd of his wins as a 3yo.
By:
brigust1
When: 23 Sep 16 10:42
Morning foxy good question. Mill Reef, Sea Bird 11 and Dancing Brave/Nijinsky in that order.

Ged I didn't go there until 68, the year before Sir Ivor beat Remand in the Derby. By best mate from those days was an apprentice and the first horse he rode was Persian War. He went on to win 2 maidens that year but he thinks the stable jockey Reg Cartright rode him to both maiden wins. It was a long time ago and I haven't my form books here to check that out.
About Persian War he was my favourite hurdler and when BG ran in the 2000 Guineas I backed him at 12s ante post and doubled up with Persian War in the Champion Hurdle. Sadly PW finished 2nd to Bula that year. I did singles as well though so no complaints.
By:
dod
When: 23 Sep 16 11:21
brigust those were my highlight years as well it was Sea Bird the Brigadier then Mill Reef and Nijinsky but who cares they  were great days and great horses glad i saw them
By:
blackbarn
When: 23 Sep 16 11:28
ged - Re Persian War.  The Wolverhampton win was the first of his two flat wins that season.  The Salisbury(?) race was after and was over 12f.
By:
ged
When: 23 Sep 16 13:03
blackbarn - thanks. That seems surprising. The Herald result has him winning at Wolver by 6 and 12.
By:
blackbarn
When: 23 Sep 16 13:11
Ged - I was using Timeform data, from the 1968 Annual. I do not have the 66 one!, and the records for his 1966 season (in the 68 book!) show 10s 13.3s 16.9d(4th) 16.9(*Won) and finally 12s (*Won) which led me to believe the Wolves win was first.  Just for info, he only ran two more times on the Flat, 6th over 10 furlongs in 67 and 3rd over 2 miles in 68.
Page 1 of 3  •  Previous 1 | 2 | 3 | Next
sort by:
Show
per page

Post your reply

Text Format: Table: Smilies:
Forum does not support HTML
Insert Photo
Cancel
‹ back to topics
www.betfair.com