Sir Tom. 25/1,20/1, 25/1 14/1. (place)

You should change your forum name, imo...

Evening Martyn

evening harvey

bet both the two he tipped in the 5.0 75quid ew lad brook paid 5 places layed the lot bk both win and place . only got to lay 4 places. so the 5th place on gamesome and the 5th place on watchable became a free bet so i got 75 on a 7 to 2 shot with no risk if it hadnt have come 5th , i also got 75 ew on the first at 33 to 1. layed at 20 to one . happy days

You're making ' pennies '. Ew betting means you're either halving your stake, or you're doubling it . Either way, long term stats prove that win only with full stake, gives bigger ROI/ profit than betting each way.

utter garbage Facts

Why ?

Large % of my profits are from ew multiples which I do on a daily basis..

facts your a bit dissolutioned or completely ignorant there is BIG  money to be made here with tom 3 ew dobles and a ew treble yesterday made me good profit . 33 to1, 25to1, and 14 to 1, as well as betting em all and a bit of clever trading

Facts is 100% correct, you can't back E/W without either halving, or doubling your stakes.

Jun 21, 2015 -- 2:36AM, Facts wrote:

Why ?

Because there are races where the structure of the race means that the win bet isn't profitable at Betfair prices but an each way bet with a bookmaker is profitable even though the win price is lower than the betfair price.

Dirty ew thieving innit

I agree with you Dave, but most of us all bet to the same point system, whether that be a pound a point or a thousand pound a point. Now we've got a race where we fancy a horse E/W, do we go 0.5 points E/W or 1 point E/W?

The PW Sheep's new delusionary tactics, we back em each way but only when they place. Fecking laughable

Exactly

To s.kenbo

use this calculator for good ew races. It will show when the book gives a better return than bf and therefore when an EW bet is best.

http://www.sportspreadsheet.com/eachwaycalc2.html

His p/l is based on his what he suggests as a stake very rarely does he suggest ew sounds like his followers are clutching at straws to justify his losers.

If you are having an each way bet you are either halving or doubling your stakes?

Never heard such rubbish in my life.

There were many bookmaking concessions which made a massive difference to betting stategy. Paying a 6th place made a huge difference to backers of Amazour, in The Britannia on Thursday, who got a 7/1 place, at early prices, in singles and multiples.

Not so big a difference as backers of Music Master found yesterday however, betting with firms paying 4 places, who got a 25/4 successful leg in their multiples, instead of a loser.

How much difference did that make to returns on investments, do you think?

So if my normal stake is £10 win, how much should my E/W bet be?

Do you mean "stake" from an optimal risk management/bankroll growth perspective or a "I bet a tenner on a race" perspective?

If the former I haven't a clue, if the latter a £5 ew

hth

Not so big a difference as backers of Music Master found yesterday however, betting with firms paying 4 places, who got a 25/4 successful leg in their multiples, instead of a loser.

There ended up only 15 runners in that race.

Indeed there were only 15 runners; but it wasn't a handicap, so the point is irrelevant.

365 and Hills (maybe others too, I don't know) were paying four places.

Four places.

but  did tom tip them e\w..........i have seen him tip e\w.............but what about when he tips 20 losers that dont get placed.........do they just back them to win??

EW has nothing to do with TS unless he suggests it which is very few times i believe, and if this is a new departure for his followers then how can they determine what his P/L is over season.

Dod, the clueless 'followers' just want the action, without the work.

If it wasn't 'Sir Tom' it would be some other Pied Piper...

I think we'll go with latter there Dave. Optimal risk management's a bit over my head!

Half my win stake it is then.

you cant select one horse as an example like music master to justify an ew bet it was placed ,what about the winners you,ve backed ew but have halved your stake,
ive argued it for years on here when the likes of nevo,the shoe etc say its an ew bet to nothing,they are pro punters why are they trying to get their stake back[ thats easy just dont have a bet], the hard part is finding winners without halving their value when you find one
i can understand social punters as i call them such as myself wanting a pick up, but for someone trying to make a living out of it so called ew bets to nothing must be a mugs game,doesnt matter how many get placed if there not winning you wont be winning,for years on here people say you cant even win unless your winners are at a value price never mind halving or doubling your winners,losers

ive argued it for years on here when the likes of nevo,the shoe etc say its an ew bet to nothing,they are pro punters why are they trying to get their stake back[ thats easy just dont have a bet], the hard part is finding winners without halving their value when you find one

I think their argument is based more on smoothing out the P&L and avoiding big drawdowns  It's no good hoping for a bigger payout if you can't stay at the table

Ive had some vino but i will av a good read of this when the mists clear

in investment terms, you would just say ew-to-nothing has a higher Sharpe ratio than win only and that would be the end of the discussion

sugarfoot..................who trained sugarfoot?.........tinkler?

remember that sugarfoot,
we were all crowded round a tv at york on magnet cup day when sugarfoot was running in that good mile race at ascot on the same day

It was N Tinkler used to have shares in horses with him once upon a lifetime ago

Not selecting one horse, as evidence; but the circumstance in which it became a great bet, each way.

I am astounded that there are so many posters who appear to search for the best available price, but can't be arsed looking for the best circumstances in which, and where, to place a bet on it....

And then, for example, having the gall to say an each way bet is either half your biscuit, or two of them; in a my way, or no way, exposé of their approach to betting.

http://www.sportspreadsheet.com/eachwaycalc2.html

Feck me that has to be the worst ever website - I can calculate quicker in my head Dave 123489..

As regards backing horses ALWAYS back the creatures each-way and look for value..

If you can get 25/1 with four places then you are a mug to back the same horse at 20/1 with five though in say a 26 runner handicap..

Those alleged "Bookmakers" have to make their margins somehow ...

Bet win only in a Lucky 15..

If you can get triple the odds one winner then you cannot lose in the long run..

My local shop was 4 times a winner at Royal Ascot(and seemingly all other races) and guaranteed odds...

Trouble was that they were not competitive odds but you can take the sp...

boingingbaggie     21 Jun 15 18:41 
Not selecting one horse, as evidence; but the circumstance in which it became a great bet, each way.

I am astounded that there are so many posters who appear to search for the best available price, but can't be arsed looking for the best circumstances in which, and where, to place a bet on it....

And then, for example, having the gall to say an each way bet is either half your biscuit, or two of them; in a my way, or no way, exposé of their approach to betting.


Dave 1357 answered s.kenbo's  question. ......' If £10 win is my bet, what would the stake be if the bet was each way.? ...'
With the statement it would be £5 ew.
If that became the strategy to use , I can tell you over the long term , you would make less profit, than betting to win only ( £10)

You may think that's rubbish. But I have at least 8 years evidence that proves otherwise,

Facts under certain circumstances an EW bet is profitable when a win bet isn't. Under certain circumstances both bets are profitable and obv sometimes place bets aren't profitable when win bets are.

If you can get the advertised prices and enhanced places at meetings like R Ascot for example then EW betting makes sense to me.

Homefortea drunk as usual doesn't understand what that calculator does

is THERE nobody left on betfair that trade to make money , its dead easy to make money out of toms tips the guy moves markets , it doesnt matter if your a sheep or any other stupid name you want to call me , i mcan make a nice profit out of tom and i can proove it . the each way thimg is left to your own discretion , i play eachway if they are massive prices as on satday and a small ew tixie paid handsomely. the 5 places on offer is fantastic cos i lay ew only 4 , so you get a free stab at 5th place. as on satday , happy days for me . but its not rocket science any one can do it

Aye, right.

I find that place only betting can be profitable but you need to look at the odds relative to the bookmaker place terms. At Royal Ascot I was able to get some place bets at less than 1/3 of SP win odds which in the long run has to make sense. Clearly there is no point in backing no hopers in low grade races whatever price they are, but in competitive valuable races most horses have some chance of making the frame. Its frustrating when a horse you have backed for a place only wins but you have to take a long term view.

I do one or two place bets if the odds are over generous such as 5-1 or 6-1 a place for a 16-1 or 20-1 shot..

Cracker has it sussed. Wins and multis when they win, e.w multis when they place, and don't post for weeks when they are not placing, great stuff.

sageform     25 Jun 15 09:23 
I find that place only betting can be profitable but you need to look at the odds relative to the bookmaker place terms. At Royal Ascot I was able to get some place bets at less than 1/3 of SP win odds which in the long run has to make sense. Clearly there is no point in backing no hopers in low grade races whatever price they are, but in competitive valuable races most horses have some chance of making the frame. Its frustrating when a horse you have backed for a place only wins but you have to take a long term view



...and the long term view is.....win single every time.imo

Dead right saddo i do
have it sussed im happy with the way i bet and the money i make and if ignorant people like you cant see the wood for the trees thats your problem . its easy