There is currently 1 person viewing this thread.
After 3 weeks of the turf season, the table is taking a more familiar shape.
wins in GB only to 19.00 today.
Invincible Spirit 21
Kodiak 20
Shamardal 19 (9 in April already)
Dubawi 18
Dark Angel, Pivotal 17
Cape Cross, Kheleyf, Kyllachy 16
Acclamation, Oasis Dream 15.
wins in GB only to 19.00 today.
Invincible Spirit 21
Kodiak 20
Shamardal 19 (9 in April already)
Dubawi 18
Dark Angel, Pivotal 17
Cape Cross, Kheleyf, Kyllachy 16
Acclamation, Oasis Dream 15.
sort by:
Show
per page
Replies: 59
|
By:
No COOLMORE stallions?
|
|
By:
No. They mostly stay in Ireland apart from in Group races. Galileo does better on turf so might just make the top 20 by the end of October.
|
|
By:
They don't mostly stay in Ireland.
|
|
By:
More than half of the winners by Galileo are trained in Ireland. Which other ones do you have in mind?
|
|
By:
The gotchee ,did john magnier bully u at school and steal your lunch money ,as u seem to have a serious problem with this outfit .It's like deja vu of the 2014 thread
|
|
By:
No lingbleed, he didn't bully me and I don't have a serious problem with the outfit. In relation to the list, what do you see that I'm not seeing?
The fact of the matter is they don't have a single horse in sageform's list. Would you not think that is baffling, considering that their stallions cover thousands of mares each year? |
|
By:
14 of the current 21 irish coolmore 'flat' stallions havent any runners yet, if none of them make it into a top 10 in 3/4 years time then the will have a gone badly wrong. I doubt that will happen.
|
|
By:
They will probably make the top 10 including Irish races on money won and perhaps races won, but they are less likely to do so in GB. Current stallions that have plenty of progeny are:
Rock of Gibraltar 45, 7, Mastercraftsman 40, 4, Henrythenavigator 16, 8, Holy Roman Emperor 38, 7 Galileo 80, 7, and Dylan Thomas 41, 7. The figures after each sire refer to GB wins in 2014 and 2015 to date respectively. Only Galileo featured in the top 20 in 2014. |
|
By:
sorry the Gotchee my comments were only tongue and cheek ,i go by the sire tables at the back of the irish field and the coolmore stallions finished very high on the lists last year ,But my mistake that is done by money earned ,not sure of runner's to winner's ratio but will be looking this year to see how they compare with other's .the list does both u.k and irish results ,1 year .2 year sire etc .and i do understand sage your list is u.k only and for betting purposes .
|
|
By:
GB not UK. UK would include the Northern Irish courses. It is a minefield that has been created by the racing statisticians down the years and it gets worse. We now have trainer and jockey championships with strange start and finish dates, annual statistics for both, worldwide pattern race stats for sires etc. This is why I collect my own GB stats to try to make sense of it. Irish and French based sires have proportionally more progeny competing on turf and on softer surfaces than American or English ones which I think is significant.
|
|
By:
Hi Sage, I detect in your last post a little streak of pedantry, so please don't be too offended if I expose mine. I find your figures interesting and understand your aims but always become distracted by the Kodiac spelling. Sorry.
|
|
By:
Thanks for that. I had genuinely never noticed it. I might be pedantic about statistics but not on spelling. I would describe my view of sire statistics as accurate rather than pedantic. There is a big difference between GB and UK politically and it is yet another of the anachronisms of our favourite sport that racing in Down Royal and Downpatrick are included in Ireland. It is understandable from a practical point of view.
I have never seen a rational reason why sire tables include GB and Ireland while owner, trainer and jockey ones do not. |
|
By:
how has teofilo been performing, good stallion who gets some good types. dont suppose will get that many winners in england. know there was some excellent winners over the last weekend. and good one just now
TWO JABS, hoping that will keep improving this season. |
|
By:
Teofilo and Pastoral Pursuits are both now on 15 after wins today.
|
|
By:
Does Down royal and Downpatrick have flat racing ,if so i've never seen it ,i some how never think of northern ireland when it comes to horse racing .But i get ur point ,and been irish i would happily let GB have both doe's two course's .
|
|
By:
Good point, may be they don't have flat racing. I should know but I don't.
|
|
By:
Down royal has flat racing media puzzle won ulster derby before winning melbourne cup.
|
|
By:
You can be forgiven sageform its not GB .The ulster derby ,i taught you where taken the p1ss beacon light ,so googled it ,and i stand corrected ,all these year's watching flat racing in ireland and liven quit close to the border i cant believe i'd never seen or heard of that .Learn something new every day
|
|
By:
Just to add to the accuracy discussion, GB includes Channel Islands. May we take it Sageform that your excellent and interesting statistics exclude the splendid racing in Jersey and Guernsey, being perhaps mainland GB only!
|
|
By:
Good point-do the Channel Island results get included in any Jockey Club/Weatherby statistics? Or are they included in the French? Yet another anomaly. If Scotland eventually get their independence, will the Scottish results be included?
|
|
By:
Top 10 GB sires by wins to end of April 2015.
Kodiac 25 Invincible Spirit 24 Shamardal 23 Dubawi 22 Kyllachy, Oasis Dream 21 Dark Angel 20 Kheleyf, Pivotal 19 Acclamation 18. |
|
By:
Results 2015 Britain@Ireland,same stallions by %
Dubawi 20.78 Shamardal 17.79 Dark Angel 17.01 Cape Cross 16.48 Kodiac 13.62 Oasis dream 13.10 Pivotal 12.94 Kheleyf 11.31 Kyllachy 10.05 Invincble Spirit 10.00 Acclamation 10.00 13.00hrs-01-05-2015. |
|
By:
Thanks. It is quite a revealing contrast. Dubawi and Shamardal have the 2 highest first season win totals I have ever recorded and they started in the same season.
|
|
By:
Three classy meetings today at top courses and the top sires have dominated.
Acclamation 3 Exceed and Excel 2 Shamardal 2 Cape Cross, Dark Angel, Invincible Spirit, Oasis Dream and Teofilo 1 each. For good measure, 3 Derby winners, Authorised, Galileo and Motivator also sired a winner each. |
|
By:
I jumped the gun before the last at Newbury-another for Cape Cross. That is 13 out of 22 races won by my top 12 sires by number of GB wins and another 3 by Derby winners. Lesser known sires might win at the gaffs and on the AW but on Grade 1 tracks put a line through anything not sired by ones on my list.
|
|
By:
Another good day for the leading sires led by Dubawi with an astonishing valuable treble at Newbury backed up by Laurence at Newmarket. Two each for Dark Angel, Cape Cross, Kodiak and Compton Place and also for Tamayuz who is not yet on my top list.
|
|
By:
yes seems the dark angel has hit form in the last few days, had that cape cross winner ALWAYS SMILE has racked up two wins for my list, would be good if can keep winning now. not unusual for those sires to bang in a few winners in a row, seems happening everywhere with jockeys racking up alot of winners in a day. good angle for
people who follow those kinda things. |
|
By:
You should first ask yourself whether there is a reason for a surge of wins for a jockey or a sire or whether it is random chance.
|
|
By:
May had by far the most flat races of the year so the sire table is taking a more familiar shape although we are about 150 races down on last year for the 5 months of 2015.
GB wins to date (includes June 1) Invincible Spirit 44 Kodiac 43 Shamardal 37 Cape Cross, Dubawi 36 Acclamation, Dark Angel 35 Kyllachy 33 Exceed and Excel 30 Oasis Dream 29 Ifraaj 28 |
|
By:
Invincible Spirit now 48, Kodiak 46 as they continue to pull away from the rest.
|
|
By:
The biggest mover in June so far is Pastoral pursuits. Two more in the first 4 races at Salisbury moves him on to 29 for the year of which 7 have been in the first 9 days of the month. He produced 68 wins last year but is on target to exceed that this time.
|
|
By:
Five wins for Kodiak over the weekend brings him level with Invincible Spirit on 52 going into Royal Ascot.
|
|
By:
The Kodiac run continued right through June with a monthly total of 21 and he now has a clear lead for the first time.
GB wins to end of June. Kodiac 63 Invincible Spirit 60 Acclamation 54 Exceed and Excel 52 Dubawi 51 Shamardal 50 Cape Cross 45 Dark Angel 44 Kyllachy 44 Oasis Dream 41 |
|
By:
And Hot Spice extends Kodiac's lead to 4.
|
|
By:
July had 843 flat winner in GB so the table has been changed somewhat. GB flat wins to date with July in brackets.
Kodiac 80 (17) Acclamation 76 (22) Invincible Spirit 75 (15) Shamardal 74 (24) Exceed and Excel 68 (16) Dubawi 62 (10) Cape Cross 61 (16) Oasis Dream 59 (18) Dark Angel 57 (13) Kyllachy 57 (13) |
|
By:
Another nice winner for Sir Percy in Scarlet Dragon at Leicester. He is by far the most prolific producer of GB winners of the Derby winners standing at stud. This latest win was number 47 (7 in August) compared to 41 in the whole of 2014. The next best Derby winner is Galileo on 32 then Authorised on 23.
|
|
By:
shame those sir percy progeny dont seem to rack up wins, maybe that has something to do with distances of the races they run in. will take
a look see if i can find some of the better ones. |
|
By:
The reason why Sir Percy gets more winners than the other Derby winners is that he gets 2yo's and milers as well as stayers. The dearth of staying races makes it hard for sires like Motivator and Authorised to make any impact.
|
|
By:
Just run through Sir Percy's GB wins to check and he has had 10 horses that have won twice and 27 just once. They do not include any really high class offspring with Lady Tiana and Twin Sails the highest rated.
|