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favourite chaser.. of all time
favourite chaser.. of all time
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Replies: 185
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Re The Fossa, most has been said, but he was one of the "fallers" in Michael O'Hehir's "roight pile up" in Foinavon's Grand National.
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TeetonMill
Sabin du Loir Wayward Lad |
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yes,did you ever notice in the national commentary they always say "as they come to the one before beechers"i was wondering what is the name of the jump before beechers or is it named "the one before beechers"
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cant believe no one myself included put up moscow flyer
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what about bobsline and noddys ride
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Brassneck. I think its because the "fence before Bechers" works for both circuits. Since the fence has no name, they'd have to remember that it was the 5th on the first circuit and the 21st on the second.
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flying bolt.
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Flyingbolt, to you sonny
Always the bridesmaid and never the Arkle bride.12st 6lb ffs - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oK2zxAw6xU |
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best mate !
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noddys ride :-]
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flying bolt and arkle were stable pals.and palled together all day long.
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SUN TZU was a decent chaser back in the day
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just like Annie and the fly.
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brassneck - It's FLYINGBOLT, and they did not "pal" "together all day long". Flyingbolt hated all and anything, the only time they got close together was in ONE JOINT gallop (that Tom Dreaper regretted) where they nearly broke one another's necks
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and who was Arkles stable companion ?
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give me break Blackbarn,im trying to remember back in the sixties,its not easy for a old man like me,you see there was another FLYING,ahh FLYING WILD or something like that,but FLYINGBOLT was about in Arkles days,did you know Arkle liked his bottle of stout.
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Sorry brassneck - Not sure what bit of my post you managed to misunderstand, but I will try to make it easier for you....
Arkle and Flyingbolt were stable companions, both trained by Tom Dreaper These two greats never raced against each other. Arkle and Flyingbolt did ONE (and only ONE) gallop together where they took each other on to such an extent that both jocks feared for their and the horses safety. All contemporary accounts suggest that Flyingbolt was not a horse that you would "pal" with anything "all day long" let alone Arkle. Hope this is clear. |
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Sorry brassneck, missed your Flying Wild post. I know a bit about that mare. She had one remarkable claim to fame.
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thanks bb,you guys know how to use the latest data to check all these facts and figures,but for me it not easy,i am not the sharpest knife in the drawer when it comes to computers,and i have to type with one finger,and as for remembering, all i have is the corridors of my mind to trace back,but if i am correct many people said at the time that flyingbolt was as good as Arkle,and Mill house was his main rival.so mill house was also a great horse.
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Excerpt from Pat Taaffes book :
Flyingbolt was hacking along with Paddy Woods on his back and a funny look in his eye. Upsides on Arkle, I was thinking to myself that I would never see a prouder horse than this. Then he turned his head and slowly looked us over. You could almost see the curl of the lip. This was the 'Who are these peasants?' look of his that I was to come to know so well and I suppose I should have been forewarned. Next thing I knew he's taken a strong hold and was away. Not to be outdone, Arkle took an equally strong hold and got up alongside. And so these two young chasers who were then potentially the best in the world staged their own private race during what was supposed to be a normal session of morning schooling. They took the next four fences, neck and neck, flat out as though their lives depended on the outcome, while Paddy and I held on to them for dear life and waited for the fires to die down. Well, they cleared them all right, but it was a bit too close for comfort and Mr. Dreaper never allowed them to be schooled together again. In character, they were the night and the day. A small child could walk into Arkle's box in absolute safety. No child, no man would ever willingly step into Flyingbolts, at least, not twice. He'd kick the eye out of your head. But over jumps and on the flat he was a superb machine and a brave one. For him, the future was limitless. Certainly he was as good at seven as Arkle was at the same age. If progress had been maintained, he would have been as good, if not better, than Arkle himself. |
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Barry Brogan, Dreaper's assistant and stable amateur during the 1965-1966 season and had ridden both Arkle and Flyingbolt in their work. In his autobiography he says:
"In my view Flyingbolt was probably the best horse I ever rode, even better than Arkle. I honestly believe that he would have beaten Arkle in the 1966 Gold Cup if Tom Dreaper had allowed him to run." In a subsequent interview with the Racing Post in December 2008, more than 25 years after the publication of his autobiography, he re-affirmed his comments when he said, "For all Arkle's brilliance, I felt Flyingbolt was the better horse. If Pat Taaffe was alive, he'd tell you the same." |
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I didn't know Brogan was Dreaper's assistant...just shows you can learn something different every day.
What year did Flyingbolt run in both the big Cheltenham races ? In my view Mill House whilst he might well have been a superstar in a different era was not at all the same level as certainly Arkle and probably Flyingbolt. |
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Once one puts aside the emotion of Crisp's eclipse by Red Rum, we can mention for the first time on this thread the beast who actually put up the best Grand National performance of all time.
Suny Bay gave the winner of the Grand National 23lb when he finished a courageous 2nd to Earth Summit in 1998. The ground was bottomless and barely raceable. Suny Bay carried 12st and beat the rest of the field a distance. Only 6 finished all carrying 10st bar Earth Summit who carried 10-5. Earth Summit is the only horse to have won all the home nationals, English, Scottish and Welsh. Suny Bay also put up one of the great performances in the Hennessy. He all but fell at the 4th fence but stayed upright to win beating Barton Bank. |
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Flying Wild was a grey mare. She won the Massey Ferguson from Buona Notte and Arkle ( carrying 12-10 and having won the Hennessy a week before ). Buona Notte should have won but Mr Haine ( who was of course the regular rider of an even better horse
 )got too cocky,tried to win on the bridle,and the horse made a mistake at the last and couldn't quite recover. |
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Posy, he won the 'big' Cheltenham years in 1965 and 66 (Arkle and QM) and also the Massey F in 1965.
He ran in the 1966 champion hurdle, 24 hours after winning the QM finishing 3rd to Salmon Spray. An incredible performance. |
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Flyingbolt ran twice in 1966. John Haine and Bob Turnell hatched a plan to stop him winning both and it worked-just. John set a suicidal pace on Flash Bulb in the Champion Chase which must have been run on the first day in those days. He ran out of gas by the third last but he had made Flyingbolt run harder than he otherwise might have done. Next day in pouring rain. Salmon Spray and John just outspeeded Flyingbolt and Pat Taaffe in the Champion Hurdle. That was my first day live at a Festival and all we could see in the murk were 2 chestnuts with white blazes but with Flyingbolt at 17 hands and SS at about 15.2 and the huge difference in riding styles, you could tell which was which.
My personal favourite was Jodami. I can remember him winning his bumper and first 2 or 3 hurdles by a distance in every case with Patrick Farrell riding. Once Mark Dwyer took over, for some reason they always rode him from behind and got him beaten in the Hennessy and in his second Gold Cup that he should have won by a street. He was a relentless galloper but couldn't quicken off a slow pace. When he won the Gold Cup, Rushing wild went at a very fast pace and burnt off everything else by the top of the hill but Jodami just kept up the pace when Rushing Wild weakened and won as he liked. Jodami had a head as big as a Shire horse and was as brave as they come. |
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Salmon Spray outspeeded him rather easily imo.
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Somebody should run a computer race with all the great chasers of all time in it.they could get a handicapper to give real weights,and select a distance that suits.in fact ground conditions as well.a hundred horse field,and no horse would get hurt if he falls,and someone could make a nice few quid out of it.we could even have betting on it.chargeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
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SS, just read your post after writing mine and agree about John H. on Buona Notte. He was a great friend of mine and was mortified to get beat that day. He named his house after the horse who was always his favourite along with Charter Party. You must be my vintage to call yourself after SS!
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTVbVh512H8
Just for you SS  |
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brassneck, the only way to compare would be adjusted time ratings but we all know that going and distances are not an exact science.
SS, time has dulled my memory but I do remember that Flyingbolt and SS were just about level jumping the last. |
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Sageform see the link, 2nd video clip
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Thanks for the clip-great to see it again after so long. Interesting that the first 3 in those years were 9 different horses. SS won more comfortably than I realized and John was able to ride a very tidy finish.
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i think someone had a computer contest about the world heavyweight championship at sometime and Rocky Marciano won it.
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I was a teenager at the time. I remember the 60s racing better than I do last week's. A lot of the horses that were my favourites at the time were trained by Turnell. Apart from the obvious,Rondetto,Buona Notte,Meon Valley,Beau Normand and a bit later Tree Tangle,Birds Nest and Beacon Light. I remember Pas Seul as a veteran getting slaughtered by Arkle and Mill House in the 64 Gold Cup,but he had had a lot of injuries and I don't remember him at his best.
You're right about them being more or less equal at the last sageform,but Salmon Spray always had a telling turn of foot and I think he won by 3L from Sempervivum who just caught Flyingbolt. |
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I must admit I had seen that link a week or two ago Andrew
And 3 weeks ago and 4 weeks ago etc etc. |
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The first Gold Cup I remember watching on TV was Pas Seul in 1960. I would have been 16 and although I lived a long bus ride from school, I went to a friends house just up the road and watched it there. Once an addict.... Pas Seuls finest hour was winning the 1961 Whitbread under top weight of 12.00 and Dave Dick riding.
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Thanks Andrew...it was the 1966 meeting I was thinking of...i was at boarding school and feigned illness to spend the afternoons in the senior common room watching the racing. Remember backing him for the Champion hurdle ;was in a state of shock when he came third. Wasn't until much later I really understood what a tremendous effort he'd made to get so close in that ground just 24 hours after the QM.
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I got hooked in 1963 at the age of 12 having blagged a week off school by exaggerating a rather minor cold. Of course mother wouldn't let me go out and the only thing on TV was some horse racing from a place called Cheltenham. Racing was one of the few sports I had no interest in but after 3 days I was hooked.
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Sadly I never saw Arkle or Flyingbolt in the flesh and from my ever fading memory, I don't think I ever had a bet on either, although my grandfather told me many stories about Arkle.
My first venture into betting shops was an EW on Honey End in the 1967 Foinaven GN and a first racecourse visit specifically to back 'unbeatable' Jacinth in the 1000 gns 6 years later  |