Welcome to Live View – Take the tour to learn more
Start Tour
There is currently 1 person viewing this thread.
An average Joe with no experience could get the results he does, hes a layers dream.
Show More
it's not so much the training, it's the placing of horses that counts for a lot,
some trainers get plenty of winners by simply aiming their horses at the right class of races !
some trainers get plenty of winners by simply aiming their horses at the right class of races !
Tregoning told Hamdan to sell the 2010 Guineas winner as he thought he was no good. That tells you everything you need to know about the man's training skills. Can you imagine Cecil, Stoute, O'Brien, De Kock or even up and coming trainers even Keith Dagleish and David O'Meara not realising they had the bloody Guineas winner by the autumn of its 2yo career?! Clueless trainer, totally reliant on his public school tie (s).
No,think the Godolphin crew are worse than Tregoning.It's a close call though
same as b meehan dont understand how someone hands these guys 300/400 k to buy a horse.............prescott is another guy who has lost it when was last time he had group winner or premier handicap
Marcus does not get nowhere near the amount of horses he used to from Hamdam they now go to Varian and Haggas he was told to sell Makfi as a 2yr old.
People seem to forget he trained Nayef also Mawatheeq who are doing well at stud,
When Dick Hern was being stabbed in the back by the Caernavons he stood by him and helped him when he was confined to a wheelchair and had multiple heart surgery.
I would say with the horses he has he has done wonders Madbool went up 13lbs for his last win and Hesbaan not the best.
People seem to forget he trained Nayef also Mawatheeq who are doing well at stud,
When Dick Hern was being stabbed in the back by the Caernavons he stood by him and helped him when he was confined to a wheelchair and had multiple heart surgery.
I would say with the horses he has he has done wonders Madbool went up 13lbs for his last win and Hesbaan not the best.
I never felt he got the best of the crop , seemed to get slow maturing types
I did expect his career to go upwards though and still a little surprised it didn't , seems a great chap all the same and comes across direct and honest when asked anything by media
Wasn't just Caernavons habin , nothing happens without the queens say so and they all will be forever stained by what they did to the major
I did expect his career to go upwards though and still a little surprised it didn't , seems a great chap all the same and comes across direct and honest when asked anything by media
Wasn't just Caernavons habin , nothing happens without the queens say so and they all will be forever stained by what they did to the major
None of it was Lord Huntingdon's fault he was put in a position where he had no choice to take on West Ilsley, I am just saying Marcus worked for what he had and was loyal to Major Hern as was Neil Graham when he took over Kingwood Stables everything was fine and produced plenty of winners until numbers dwindled and the Rent on Kingwood was put right up.
@habin67 Tregoning was not told to sell Makfi. He knew colts were culled from the operation is they were no good and recommended to Angus Gold that Makfi wouldn't make it as a good horse. http://uk.reuters.com/article/2010/05/01/us-horse-racing-guineas-makfi-idUST...
I always remember an ex high standing owner saying "withered on the vine" when asked about his horses with this trainer.
i was at salisbury one day and there was a 2yo race where a very high-priced Tregoning colt was making his debut and was the hot favourite. I was staggered when the colt came into the paddock as he was incredibly unfit, virtually broodmare fat. Just as an aside it turned out to be a cracking race with the first two home, trained by Andrew Balding and David Elsworth, becoming solid Group One performers but I can't remember their names!
I've just looked up the race it was when Norse Dancer just held Phoenix Reach at bay and the Tregoning horse, Albareq, ran third at 4-1 having opened more like 2-1.
Tregoning has had the reputation of taking half the season to get his horses fit. The Makfi sale will not have helped, and was there not an incident a few seasons back concerning the distribution of money that Sheikh Hamdan tipped the stable staff?
David Lanigan is even worse just look who he trains for and the results.
He was not helped by his relationship with Richard Hills
He also does seem to have lost motivation since Sir Percy passed the post.
He was not helped by his relationship with Richard Hills
He also does seem to have lost motivation since Sir Percy passed the post.
Marcus is a very good old fashioned trainer. Honest as they come with the cleanest horses in Newmarket .
The plight of Marcus says more about the game today.
Comparing him to de kock , o'meara and dagleish ???
The plight of Marcus says more about the game today.
Comparing him to de kock , o'meara and dagleish ???
tregoning,bell,meehan and in the nh ranks charlie mann. Absolute bluffers the lot of them and how they survive is a modern day miracle.
tregoning,bell,meehan and in the nh ranks charlie mann. Absolute bluffers the lot of them and how they survive is a modern day miracle.
They survive because it is even harder to judge whether a trainer is any good than it is to compare jockeys.
Alastair Down alluded to this years ago when reviewing the Timeform annual. To paraphrase, if you or I had trained Lammtarra [RIP] to win a couple of handicaps, there is no way Timeform would have said we'd have made a complete cods of it and he should have won the Derby, King George and Arc.
They survive because it is even harder to judge whether a trainer is any good than it is to compare jockeys.
Alastair Down alluded to this years ago when reviewing the Timeform annual. To paraphrase, if you or I had trained Lammtarra [RIP] to win a couple of handicaps, there is no way Timeform would have said we'd have made a complete cods of it and he should have won the Derby, King George and Arc.
My post is being moderated. Must have mentioned the wrong name. Take it from me, it would have been the most astute forum post of the summer.
Hushwing - I do not disagree with the thrust of your argument, but Marcus trains in Hampshire (Whitsbury I think) not Newmarket. Passed one of his wagons on the Chi bypass yesterday morning.
a much needed win for us this morning blackbarn, otherwise we could have been doomed!
these freds have a habit of throwing up a winner.
perhaps sir percy blakeney at lingfield tomorrow might be the one,been running over to short a trip so far.
perhaps sir percy blakeney at lingfield tomorrow might be the one,been running over to short a trip so far.
Agreed Happy Valley. Very welcome! I hate to think where we would be without the Goff.
knot in wood 08 Jul 14 17:40
these freds have a habit of throwing up a winner.
so true ...
these freds have a habit of throwing up a winner.
so true ...
My question is answered, he has just redeemed himself with a 1/2 length winner of a Brighton maiden
always happens shady...uncanny.
i did not even see hit,cannot stand brighton.
i did not even see hit,cannot stand brighton.
Some trainers just simply seem to lose their hunger and it's those who don't need to rely on the sport for a living that have the choice of throwing in the towel. David O'Brien made a cracking start to his career and looked all set to be the future Master of Ballydoyle but by his own admission did not want a life with such pressure and now runs a vineyard in France.
Robert Armstrong packed it in, saying 'there was more to life than racing' and pursued his hobby of following motor sport even more closely. Think David Loder is still involved in purchasing bloodstock but he did comment that he wanted to see more of the world on his own terms, or something similar.
Robert Armstrong packed it in, saying 'there was more to life than racing' and pursued his hobby of following motor sport even more closely. Think David Loder is still involved in purchasing bloodstock but he did comment that he wanted to see more of the world on his own terms, or something similar.
That's 3 winners and 2 places from 6 runners since this thread was started !
All that blue blood must be warming up at last !
All that blue blood must be warming up at last !
Makfi was the final nail in the coffin for Marcus,a real nice guy but i dont think he will last long at Whitsbury the rent is sky high for a start and he is just not making it pay.......Still he had a good run and trained some big winners but it's curtains now.
Any trainer out of form must look forward to these threads appearing.
Guaranteed to change his form!
Guaranteed to change his form!
Is it common knowledge that Marcus Tregoning "told" Hamdan to sell Makfi or is that just an assumption because he was the listed trainer before the horse was sold?
The horse didn't have a 2YO career as it never ever ran at 2 or for Tregoning at any stage and was sent to an end of season auction sale with around 70 odd other Hamdan horses, where I doubt Tregoning made those decisions and was possibly made between the owner and his racing managers and if Makfi never ran as a 2YO then there will obviously have been a reason for that.
There's also a big difference between a smallish owner getting rid of a future star where if they only own a handful it should really stand out and an owner like Hamdan doing so with the number of decent horses he has spread all over with various different trainers.
Tregoning has done as well as can be expected and maybe even surpassed that considering he only really had one very high profile owner and I wonder if many criticising are even aware of the number of big races he has won and might actually be surprised by it. This list doesn't look too shabby to me anyway:
A Derby, Dewhurst, Gran Premio Del Jockey Club, Prince of Wales´s Stakes, Juddmonte International, Dubai Sheema Classic, Dubai Champion Stakes and a total of around 45 group races in all.
The horse didn't have a 2YO career as it never ever ran at 2 or for Tregoning at any stage and was sent to an end of season auction sale with around 70 odd other Hamdan horses, where I doubt Tregoning made those decisions and was possibly made between the owner and his racing managers and if Makfi never ran as a 2YO then there will obviously have been a reason for that.
There's also a big difference between a smallish owner getting rid of a future star where if they only own a handful it should really stand out and an owner like Hamdan doing so with the number of decent horses he has spread all over with various different trainers.
Tregoning has done as well as can be expected and maybe even surpassed that considering he only really had one very high profile owner and I wonder if many criticising are even aware of the number of big races he has won and might actually be surprised by it. This list doesn't look too shabby to me anyway:
A Derby, Dewhurst, Gran Premio Del Jockey Club, Prince of Wales´s Stakes, Juddmonte International, Dubai Sheema Classic, Dubai Champion Stakes and a total of around 45 group races in all.
Post Your Reply
Please login to post a reply.
Wonder
Instance ID: 13539