How long can ATR survive?

As long as they have enough viewers for it to be worth advertisers using the channel would be my guess.

Will chappers have his top hat and tails on next week I wonder

Doncaster looking very isolated now

probably duffy, he's probably at ascot with big mac

Perhaps the question should be asked of RUK - they only have @50000 viewers so is their model sustainable long term - whilst viewers pay for the privilege of watching, they also rely on  advertisers - they are also partially financed by the major flat courses but if they thought they could get more through the turnstiles by dropping the TV coverage perhaps they might consider doing so

No chance in my opinion. They still have a massive part of the fixture list with the AW tracks owned by ARc...who also own them.

The likes of Fred Done and ARC are extremely influential and they're in the ATR/SIS camp where they can control everything (unfortunately).

Not for long I hope. Any self respecting racecourse should cross over

Given that public interest in horse racing is in a constant decline, I find it hard to believe that the sport can support two dedicated racing channels in the long term. Which will survive? Who knows?

here here,they deserve to go under treat viewers with contempt

The only thing wrong with ATR is that interminable and inexcusable delay. Irish racing brilliant and they have returned millions to the tracks.

Apart from the excessive delays to the "live" coverage, the poor picture quality, the constant repetition of annoying adverts (not their fault, tbf), terrible decisions about which races to give preference to in the event of clash and a handful of really awful presenters they are fine.

ATR will struggle, look at the advertisers paying for airtime, look how many have not renewed from one or two years back, no one is watching the ads, they flick over or mute and advertisers are catching on

c4s decline has propped up Saturday figures short term but RUK have all of the cream

Probably correct re the advertisers. Anyone who has both Racing Channels will not sit and watch the adverts and will channel hop between races.

Not had the sound on for nearly 12 months.

All their other faults, which are many as BB points out, could be forgiven if they would only reduce the ludicrous delay to RUK's level.

I catch up on my ever growing backlog of all creatures great and small episodes in between races.

time delay has long been an issue, but probably 90% using live vid on daq and bf would use atr if they were even comparable speed wise to free up their pc screens

Perhaps if they realise that there may be some hope of the delay being reduce, elise.

perhaps, also losing ascot amongst others will show them 12 months from now a different set of figures, with the recent course closures and the loss of tracks to ruk things will only get bleaker

i can see ruk making a play for ireland now they have the scottish monopoly

RUK declined the Irish last year didn't they?

RUK would need a second channel to take on all the Irish racing. They don't want loads of clashes. Perhaps they will have a crack at trying to get Punchestown, Leopardstown and the Curragh on board though.

well pulled out the bidding I mean

I thought that the general consensus from a year or two back regarding the delay was because it was to keep the SIS boys happy, well now live video has put that to bed, what's the reason now?

Don't see how there would be loads of clashes myself.

There would be if they had ALL the Irish racing. ATR has plenty of clashes now.

they will go again tom, i can't see a more obvious next target and re the 2nd channel they did it before where they split coverage in a similar way to atrs red button so ruk could do it again

on the red button, that was what , 2 secs faster than the main atr channel before it got binned?

What makes you think RUK want loads more courses clogging up their schedule? Would think the obvious target would be Doncaster. They are probably happy not to show All The Rubbish.

partly i suspect the long term model has evolved to be stand alone, partly i secretly hope atr are going to shoot themselves in the foot and drop the lot

hope your right elise,hate ATR with a passion

According to todays RP,ATR just had their best ever year. How fecking saddening is that

i think if atr could get their speed in line with ruk and remain fta there's a place for them in the market, competition etc, not only that but no new viewer will leap straight to ruk subscription until they've taken to the sport, so ruk if they do increase track coverage need to reduce subscription costs to allow growth

that's why i asked, if you look behind the figures it's not as good as it seems trd

Another typically ill conceived ATR thread with the usual suspects spouting the same old arguments.

RUK is the height of arrogance and unfortunately it appears that attitude rubs off on some of its subscribers.

Amazing that some people still don't seem to grasp that having the Irish racing throughout the season is actually the jewel in the crown. Even on the Flat ATR can exclusively show 6 Classics to RUK's 4. As for National Hunt racing even though they actually have Cheltenham the situation is summed up by their preview which with no Irish racing to show is bordering on the pitiful. They have tried to fill the void by having a contrived five minute chat with Ruby Walsh. 

ATR has always had a programme structure. RUK still offers little more than live racing and endless repeats. It continues to get away with the bare minimum. Even for Festivals like Aintree the coverage doesn't kick off until the afternoon and embarrassingly ATR is the source of all earlier information. The RUK website has never been anything but awful.

ATR couldn't have given Ascot more exposure. It is a shame the decision makers seemingly thought that counted for nothing.

Think most people glad Irish racing doesnt clog up RUK

And you're welcome to the hourly news bulletins, pointless interviews, ad breaks every 2 mins and picture quality from the 60s


That said, RUK still make some bizarre decisions...fair play for trying to introduce some features but they then go and stick them on all Sunday morning when they've often got 4 or 5 quality meetings to replay...then come Mon we get Market Raspberry or Ayr on loop

bilbobaggins
12 Jun 14 19:51
ATR's...Irish racing brilliant and they have returned millions to the tracks


How the fook do you come up with that figure?

elise
12 Jun 14 20:20

i think if atr could get their speed in line with ruk..there's a place for them in the market


A fine example of the Betfair forum bubble...the speed matters to the few people that bet IR. As part of ATR's business plan, that 'few' people barely register imo

bilbo, if you were referring to euro rather than people, i withdraw my comment!

disagree duncan, the package that attracts viewers needs to encompass all and for a station designed round an advertising model getting viewers to turn on and stay turned on means meeting their needs

a major factor in c4s viewing loss is the turn off of analogue last year, despite what people want to say about presenters, format etc a large slice of switch off is actually down to people moving to faster streams

and it's not a forum bubble, it's a racing bubble, something both tv channels and the racing post continually miss the point on, we are their customer and it's betting that drives their existance

a large slice of switch off is actually down to people moving to faster streams..i'd have a large wager on that being nonsense

racing bubble is hundreds of thousands...Betfair bubble of In-Runners and market traders etc is a small fraction of that..most people cant get there head around how the exchange works

majority of C4 Racing viewers are 50+...they arent all diving for faster streams so they can get the kettle on quicker after race is run imo

id take your wager duncan so we'll have to disagree

differentdrum,well said.Also £20/month compared with £0/month.As stated many times,many can afford to pay the subs.,but choose not to,as a matter of principle.
Re. Chelt.,the majority of races are on Ch4,as is the case with Royal Ascot,so there is a clash in that respect with RUK.
   Yes,ATR does show a lot of the "low grade" stuff,but it isn't costing viewers extra fees.Besides which that isn't the fault of ATR,just the way our racing has gone.
Assume Chelmsford City will be on ATR too.

They were touting for business on the channel today, chapman asked the arc chief to pitch to the racecourses to come over to the dark side!

fair enough, elise. good luck today

you too duncan

You have to be on drugs

differentdrum
differentdrum 13 Jun 14 09:39 Joined: 05 Oct 11 | Topic/replies: 2,264 | Blogger: differentdrum's blog
Another typically ill conceived ATR thread with the usual suspects spouting the same old arguments.

RUK is the height of arrogance and unfortunately it appears that attitude rubs off on some of its subscribers.

Amazing that some people still don't seem to grasp that having the Irish racing throughout the season is actually the jewel in the crown. Even on the Flat ATR can exclusively show 6 Classics to RUK's 4. As for National Hunt racing even though they actually have Cheltenham the situation is summed up by their preview which with no Irish racing to show is bordering on the pitiful. They have tried to fill the void by having a contrived five minute chat with Ruby Walsh. 

ATR has always had a programme structure. RUK still offers little more than live racing and endless repeats. It continues to get away with the bare minimum. Even for Festivals like Aintree the coverage doesn't kick off until the afternoon and embarrassingly ATR is the source of all earlier information. The RUK website has never been anything but awful.

ATR couldn't have given Ascot more exposure. It is a shame the decision makers seemingly thought that counted for nothing

RUK have offers on all the time,recently it was £10 p/a or a free month trial but if you choose not to out of principle then that is your prerogative. ATR is NOT free to air, it is in the £21.50 package with Sky don't know about virgin.

RUK is essential if you play IR,ATR serves a purpose if you don't care when the race is run,the audience from people I know,consists of small,multiple bet placers who are semi/retired and just want to watch the race,fair enough but all them adverts them presenters and lack of anything professional make it an instant no go if you are serious about making money.We have to put up with a small screen if we want to get anywhere need the speed for live and why they can't just do what RUK do is beyond me.

*£10 per month for 12 months

forget betting for a second, even just seeing the paddock, race build up, the way they continually chop to ads just ahead of the race, full screen betting shows blocking the viewing, studio pictures with off topic pieces,the list is endless

i've just had equidia on one screen and atr on the other for the last 2 races, the comparison on production / content is light years apart (as is the speed of transmission)

Whether a punter plays in running or not,in this day and age the in running game plays a major part in betting on horse racing  The fact that ATR are content to pump out pictures 7 secs behind live is nothing short of a disgrace,treating their viewers their with utter disdain and contempt

in running market is 50 ppl on track/fast pics and 50 hermits, it doenst play a major part of anything as the awful liquidity shows

if we had a proper governing body they'd realise the importance of looking after the shop window and making racing a) accessible to as many as possible b) making it meet all customers needs c) making it enjoyable relevant and watchable to attract new business

we have ending up with a dogs dinner on c4 and what's evolving into an upper and lower class system on the specialist channels

so why bother to slow the pictures ?

Tom Hunt

Like the unicorn, the imaginary bookie offers and the legendary standing 20 grand bets these RUK offers are only any good if you can actually get them. They sent me an email offering that £10 a month offer and I thought I'd take them up on it. A dozen phone calls later and I hadn't even been put in a queue. I sent them am email complaint. They never responded. I only watch the jumps. I asked them a while back if I could have it for 6 months to cover the jumps season. They weren't interested. It still strikes me as the most myopic shoot yourself in the foot decision to expect potential customers to pay to walk through the door. Tesco don't chagre you to enter when you are spending thousands a year in their store. Racing has dammed up the lake preventing new fish entering and are confused that their customer base is shrinking.

all feedback suggests RUK customer services dept is made up of one lass with a phobia of telephones and no computer

who is Scottish and hates men

Eeternal I usually get a response from this e-mail..customerservice@racinguk.mgtplc.com  gl

Rider don't be ridiculous,in running on RUK is fine

who is Scottish and hates men

made me laugh anyway

Jun 13, 2014 -- 2:21PM, TRD.Racing wrote:

Rider don't be ridiculous,in running on RUK is fine

ridiculous? the IR market is a lemon due for obvious reasons

atr is here to stay theyre  not going to change

Whenever anyone posts ,like myself,that ATR costs £0,as opposed to £20/month for RUK,there is always a reply saying that ATR ISN'T FREE.Nobody is claiming it to be free,the claim is that it is sub. free,and doesn't cost £20/month EXTRA to receive,in addition to whichever Virgin or Sky package a person uses.
  Amazing,well not really,why posters fail to grasp that simple fact.

£20/month compared with £0/month was your quote..so if you had freeview in your home and rang Sky for ATR they would give it you for nowt?

Bit like a Boss suit being a monkey,one from Asda for £40,they do the same thing,but the difference is immense and there for all to see

So if you had the sports package and the original bundle channels, then wanted ATR you wouldn't have to upgrade to the variety bundle?

There are free to air channels when you take the basic sky package but ATR is not listed as one of them therefore some monies are paid to them,your subs run out to Sky,you have 5 channels you can watch on the box,you want to watch Luke Harvey then they will charge you £21.50 for ATR..fact

john just looked and you are correct,it is £27 a month now! it started off on the news package at £11.50 then progressed to the basic package at £21.50 and now it's in the variety so yes you would

Thanks Tom. I'll send that one an email and see if they can be bothered.

Mine was a rhetorical question to unbiased, I looked it up before I posted

In short, if you have the basic package and the sports, then decide you want ATR you have to pay extra.

not  long .... why they have all the rubbish .. ok its free  but  you cannot sell rubbish

perhaps, also losing ascot amongst others will show them 12 months from now a different set of figures, with the recent course closures and the loss of tracks to ruk things will only get bleaker

i can see ruk making a play for ireland now they have the scottish monopoly

But Ireland has nothing to do with the UK so why would Irish Racing be shown on a station with such a name?

ATR to retain Irish racing rights until 2017

At The Races and SIS sign new deal with Horse Racing Ireland and Irish Racecourses

At The Races today announced that, along with partner SIS, the Company has agreed terms for a new media rights deal with Horse Racing Ireland and the Association of Irish Racecourses that will cover the period from January 2014 to December 2016.

Under the terms of the new agreement ATR will have exclusive, cross platform, non-LBO media rights worldwide to all Irish fixtures. SIS retains all domestic and international betting shop rights under the terms of its current contract with HRI.

The new agreement includes significantly improved terms across multiple media rights revenue lines. At The Races forecasts that its returns to Irish racecourses will more than double in 2014 versus the returns it generates in 2013 for current rights holder SIS. Further growth is anticipated through the term of the agreement from both domestic and international services, particularly via online and new media channels.

As part of the new partnership, ATR has offered HRI/AIR the opportunity to take up a seat on its board. All parties view this as a significant and important new development that will help further the effort to coordinate and align strategies and keep the Irish racing industry integrally involved in the management and direction of its rights exploitation.

Matthew Imi, Chief Executive, At The Races, said:

"We are delighted that our relationship with Horse Racing Ireland, the Association of Irish Racecourses and all twenty six tracks will be continuing next year and beyond.

"Irish racing forms a significant part of our business and since 2004 an important partnership has formed to which we, our shareholders and UK racecourse partners attach considerable value.

"Individually, each of the Irish racecourses has its own characteristics and requirements from us as their media partner and we work very hard to ensure that our business objectives are firmly aligned with theirs.

"Collectively, the racecourses offer a consistent and high quality schedule of Flat and Jump racing across the year which our domestic and international audiences and commercial partners find increasingly attractive.

"HRI and AIR made it very clear that not only did they feel ATR had done a great job monetising their rights across our current distribution platforms but that they were also excited about the long term potential of the business and we look forward to welcoming their representative onto the ATR Board as we start to roll out our growth strategy."

Paddy Walsh, Chief Executive, Association of Irish Racecourses, said:

"I am very pleased that the AIR, on behalf of all our racecourses, has now agreed terms with ATR/SIS in relation to the sale of the non-LBO rights that we recently offered to the market.

"This new deal extends our long standing arrangements with both At The Races and SIS and I look forward to all parties benefiting from the partnership approach that we have always adopted in the past."   27/8/2013

The rancid Irish stuff is where it belongs,on the rancid channel

Unbelievable,the mindset of some posters,arguing like a schoolkid over something.How do they ever make the game pay with that stubborn attitude,and MISREADING of posts.I trust their interpreting of form isn't so misread!

What's so rancid about irish Racing TRD?As apposed to the immaculately clean british racing?

You're just an ignorant fool.

easy with RUK!!

Whenever anyone posts ,like myself,that ATR costs £0,as opposed to £20/month for RUK,there is always a reply saying that ATR ISN'T FREE.Nobody is claiming it to be free,the claim is that it is sub. free,and doesn't cost £20/month EXTRA to receive,in addition to whichever Virgin or Sky package a person uses.
  Amazing,well not really,why posters fail to grasp that simple fact.

This is incorrect. RUK does not cost EXTRA to receive in addition to a Sky or Virgin package. You can subscribe through Freeview and also on Sky without having a Sky subscription.

cheltenham If you can't figure it out just by watching it,there is no help for you

never understand the arguments about ruk costing £20+ a month
cos if you cant afford 70 pence a day to watch class horse racing
you most certainly shouldn't be on here punting

I see very little merit in that argument. By that logic a RUK subscription without accompanying racing info such as a Racing Post subscription means you are also losing the edge. Then of course there is the collateral form from other courses and indeed Ireland which you cannot get from RUK so you need ATR. How much does that stand you at now? I don't think you'll have much change out of £1000 a year and that's before you have a bet. May as well just stick a tenner on at the weekend and watch it on Channel Four. It'll save you money.

I will endorse what is widely known about RUK's customer service.  They have just put me in the hands of debt collectors even though I have been subscribing continuously since December 2004.  They reckon I owe them £30.80 even though they have never asked for it.  Please give me the name of someone I can talk to about this because my emails to Customer Service go unanswered and I am definitely not sitting in their scammy phone queue!

put one up earlier jmdc but heres another

billie.hopewell-smith@racinguk.com

gl

Hope ATR continue
competition is good

Look what happens with lack of comp in utilities..Nightmare scenario for gas & leccy bills now ¬

RUK no need more racecourses
on a saturday, its already crazily busy

the racing post cost  about  £800 plus    RUK  is  ABOUT    £ 240 per  year  that over a grand  for both
here are  the numbers    if your good  and I mean good    you may make 15%  betting or laying .. think about  it you need to turn over  say 12k just to pay for  the  racing  post and  RUK ... THINK about it    it aint a problem for us pros ..but the guys in the street its huge

TRD i see it very well indeed,i also see it every day of the week in the UK,What's your point?

Says in the Racing Post today that ARC have extended their media rights with ATR to June 2019.

i see TRD's last post has been removed,With good reason i'd imagine.

yep, too close to the truth?