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Ryan Moore took the bait a bit quick.
Ryan Moore took the bait a bit quick.
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The last time I revealed my name (ordinary bloke) when being challenged years ago by Barry Dennis, I got yellow carded. Graham Cunningham is entitled to his opinion, as is Ryan Moore. Imagine these jockeys had to take the same level of criticism as football players, how would they handle that?
We all know that horses aren't machines, but jockeys aren't immune to opinion, debate and criticism of their rides. Ryan mentions the pundits he respects. Does he respect them because he doesn't get criticism from them, or is it coincidence? Only he could say, I guess. My name is John Nolan, I've been a BF customer since 2002, and I made the above post. I'm not questioning Ryan Moore's ability, only his apparent (or his ghost writer's?) apparent suggestion that Graeme Cunningham's criticism was not well founded. Whether you think it was or wasn't, it wasn't slanderous by a long chalk, therefore it falls between the same parameters that sportsman and people in the public domain have to read every day. Journalists are paid to report, provoke discussion and be insightful within the sport they cover, supposedly. If everyone - or anyone - is to be immune from criticism, then someone can lock the door on the way out. |
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Not bad for a crayonist, johnn..
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Why does he feel the need to demand names from people? Aren't the cards already dealt far enough in the racing mafia's favour as it is? Simply give honest answers, or are they so far up themselves that they have forgotten how to do it?
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What response are you after prism?
You write your thoughts, your arguments for and against, and Ryan gets his name put on it. Saying in the statement "i'm not going to mention this, this and this" means that you have mentioned it. |
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Well said john.
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Smacks of McCarthyism this 'name names' sh*t, they want to isolate the critics so they can continue on their merry way.
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average 7 posts a year ....
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Unlike your 7 a minute Delta...
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good value here Johnn
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No disagreement, mate.
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but therein lies the point johnn
no contribution to the ailing forum until it suits and then they want something, too many of them! |
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Does he respect them because he doesn't get criticism from them, or is it coincidence? Only he could say, I guess.
Interesting you should say that because he mentioned Willoughby who was the first to slate the ride on Racing UK. Of course what he didn't do was to suggest the Doyle announcement had anything to do with it. I'd find it hard to believe that nobody has alerted Moore to what Willoughby said during the past week. |
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Such is life.
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If you think the way a ghost writer operates is to pursue his own agenda, and get it rubber stamped by the person putting their name to it, then you are ever so slightly mistaken.
Johnn - good shout. I dont think he has any problem whatsoever with criticism and only twice in two seasons have we done an article like this. One with Lee Mottershead last year, which was quite punchy, and then today's. And I would have said today's was pretty mild myself. I remember Lee having no problem after the article was talked through with him by RM. It was good old fashioned give and take, as it should be, and today's was small beer. If journalists can pen articles, making some questionable assumptions and inferences, then surely people like Moore or Hughes in his RP column have a right of reply. |
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Still cant get my head round why Moore would post this response. He has just opening himself up to ridicule, which he certainly got and deserved imo. (Well done).
Take the smack and get on with life lad, more importantly, learn from it. Hope Cunningham's colleagues back him up. |
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prism/tony, thanks for replying.
If journalists can pen articles, making some questionable assumptions and inferences, then surely people like Moore or Hughes in his RP column have a right of reply. Absolutely, as I said above, much of this is subjective and it works both ways. I think Hughes' column on a Saturday in the RP has been hugely insightful, and helpful to his reputation. I assume it is ghost written? |
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Yes, Lee Mottershead writes it.
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Sorry for repeating myself but I'd be grateful if you could let us know how they do work, the blogs.The national newspapers have on a Saturday a column by so and so, yet I'd be surprised if the person at the head of the column has any input.How do the columns on here work ,how much input do the jockeys/trainers have , do you write them and run it by them or do they actually come up with the topics. TIA.
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I suspect the usual suspects in media will close ranks, when they needn't do anything of the sort. Same goes with jockeys. the more debate, anmd exchange of views, in this sport the better. A lot of the time it is just back-scratching.
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Biscar - I am happy to.
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will yifter be barred from the forum now iyo?
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Take another angle, before I turn in for the night.
Ryan says he has more respect (in so many words) for several other journos, who incidentally didn't criticise him at any time in the past the way GC has. Given that the inference is that criticism is ok as long as it is justified, does the fact that these people have never criticised him mean that... 1)He has never made a mistake 2)They are not doing their job properly 3)An element of both I'm off to bed now. Criticism of my performance in the next hour will no doubt exist, I can only hope that she doesn't blog about it.. Night all. |
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Goodnight john,
thanks for the input. Take her gently.  |
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"Ryan says" and all the reference to "Ryan's" comments might well be irrelevant until we know what input if any he actually has on the blog.In effect they might not be his thoughts at all.
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Everyone has a right of reply Prism
But pointless inane blog ramblings not written by themselves is purely a waste of time Having seen Moore when confronted with a mike - he wouldn't give us the time of day Unless it suited him A la the blogs Can't fault you for taking the Betfair dollar But to expect most here to believe the shenanigans is belittling to the forum |
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Prism
"I dont think he has any problem whatsoever with criticism and only twice in two seasons have we done an article like this. " Can we see the Betfair light thru this ? |
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John
She says its not a sprint btw  |
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I tend to rate jockeys by which one makes the fewest mistakes, and who I can trust to give the horse I want to back the best ride possible.
Ryan Moore is top of my list by a country mile. Jamie Spencer is bottom of the same list with a distance between him and the one above him. Although I appreciate Ryan would never say so as a fellow professional, he'd go up a lot in my estimation if he used his blog to say, "**** me, he's given that a piss poor ride", like the rest of us do. And follow it up with his honest opinion of Derek Thompson. I think we all know what that would be though...... |
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My view is that the article was well intended and much needed. The underlying message was to stop the smoke blowing and the glossing over that sometimes prevails.
But I do think that the Abdulla retainer link was a little tenuous to say the least, in as much as its supposed affect on the race riding abilities of some seasoned pro's. If indeed, that is what was being suggested. There are much more obvious targets to put under the spotlight, for much greater misdemeanors, than the unusual suspects mentioned in the article. If we were getting really forthright (and potentially litigious), we could have a "most wanted" column in the post based on the average number of no shows per jockey, per week. I suspect Ryan Moore's face wouldn't feature very often. |
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No problem with Moore defending himself from any criticism in the media or giving his own version of events, but the inclusion of this statement is a bit pathetic.
beware of people in the media who try to carve out a niche for themselves as controversial or "forthright" It strongly implies that Cunningham may have had a hidden motive for his article, rather than just giving an honest critical opinion of what he sees as a poor ride, something all too rare in the mealy-mouthed world of the racing media. |
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mind you ryan is right........Cunningham is a failed tipster......
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whose lucky to be slurping on the gravy train
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Although I appreciate Ryan would never say so as a fellow professional, he'd go up a lot in my estimation if he used his blog to say, "**** me, he's given that a piss poor ride", like the rest of us do.
but if he did that, trainers might listen to him and get rid of Frank..... leaving Moore having to ride against a better jock. No, much better to say Frank is the bee's knees..... |
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I think GC has done really well recently, Jim Mcgrath's silence on C4 a highlight.
There was no need for Ryan to respond publicly (however much it was Ryan?) He could have given Graham a ring if he had a problem, when was the last time a sportsman/woman responded publicly to such tame criticism? Imagine if all sports people responded like this to every small critique, it shows how pathetic so many racing "journalists" are that GC's comments have become a talking point. This blog post makes him look over sensitive (which I'm sure he isn't) and the It would be very easy for me to respond by mentioning recent mistakes made in print or on TV, or tipping prowess. But I won't go down that route comment makes him look like a tart having handbags (which I'm sure he isn't) As mentioned already these blogs aren't taken seriously/are rarely even read since the Kauto Star schooling fall "Paul is delighted" entry, I'd much prefer to read an interview with Tony Calvin and Ryan or Paul Nicholls or whoever. |
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In fairness, as far as which pundits Ryan Moore is saying he has respect for goes, he lists those names regarding the potential "how many winners you have ridden" line in that he's saying he doesn't use that as his default setting response to any criticism if he or another jockey receives any from a non-jockey and those he names as respecting their views haven't ridden any winners either.
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All this just another reason why the jumps can't come back quick enough. So many ****s/bad jockeys on the flat, everything about breeding, top jockeys and trainers openly schooling in public, jockeys not bothering their hole to ride out for a place etc.
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maybe their ghost writers are their ghost riders as well.
that could explain some of the rides. (I haven't ridden any winners by the way) |
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When a Test Batsman is out, ( for example ) the dismissal is shown over and over again for all to see and the players shortcomings are highlighted by the sport's pundits on TV and Radio and in print . More often than not the said player will just put his hands up and admit to "playing a bad shot" or whatever.
Would it not be great if, for once, a jockey would just front up and admit they got it wrong ( or explain why they did or didn't do something at some certain part of a race).Punters I feel would have far more respect for them if they were more open . Sadly in Horse Racing, Trainers and Jockeys seem to feel they work in a world where the paying public is deemed as not worthy of anything other than the most brief soundbyte,and who are we to question what they do . Well if thats the case maybe they should race their horses behind closed gates on empty tracks with no cameras. |
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johnn
johnn 06 Sep 13 22:22 Joined: 14 Oct 02 | Topic/replies: 4,148 | Blogger: johnn's blog The last time I revealed my name (ordinary bloke) when being challenged years ago by Barry Dennis, I got yellow carded. Graham Cunningham is entitled to his opinion, as is Ryan Moore. Imagine these jockeys had to take the same level of criticism as football players, how would they handle that? We all know that horses aren't machines, but jockeys aren't immune to opinion, debate and criticism of their rides. Ryan mentions the pundits he respects. Does he respect them because he doesn't get criticism from them, or is it coincidence? Only he could say, I guess. My name is John Nolan, I've been a BF customer since 2002, and I made the above post. I'm not questioning Ryan Moore's ability, only his apparent (or his ghost writer's?) apparent suggestion that Graeme Cunningham's criticism was not well founded. Whether you think it was or wasn't, it wasn't slanderous by a long chalk, therefore it falls between the same parameters that sportsman and people in the public domain have to read every day. Journalists are paid to report, provoke discussion and be insightful within the sport they cover, supposedly. If everyone - or anyone - is to be immune from criticism, then someone can lock the door on the way out. Sadly in Horse Racing, we all know that Journalists,with a few exceptions,do NOT do as John writes above |
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He named James Willoughby as one of those he respects. Well Willoughby criticised the ride on Racing UK immediately after the race.
I doubt that Ryan has not been made aware of that over the course of the week. I get the feeling it's not so much the opinion of the ride that's rankled on this occasion and more the suggestion that the Juddmonte announcement may have been a reason for it. |