Owner bans Fallon from riding his horses

Carrot man sees the future couldn't see a gap from 4 furlongs out.Thats four 4 furlongs out you ever wrode a horse.

"

ima_mazed66
05 Jul 13 16:31
Joined:
12 Oct 09
| Topic/replies: 4,795 | Blogger: ima_mazed66's blog
No wonder Afsare couldn't win a Gr1 either with or without Fallon on if the horse can't even win once dropped to Listed company.

Some of these owners are deluded when it comes to the quality (or lack of) of some of their horses.


why don't you just front up and admit your his agent,or someone close to him, as somebody else pointed out, Afsare was beaten today by a genuine Gr 1 horse which gives genuine depth to this Listed race so much so that it is, to my eyes, a Gr 3 quality at least.

"Some of these owners are deluded when it comes to the quality (or lack of) of some of their horses."

and he had a 30% win rate for the guy that sacked him so it must be something else as that is a very sound win to ride ratio

LOL....you wouldn't be the first to accuse me of being his agent or someone close to him but I can assure you that I'm not and have never even met him, so that makes as much sense as me accusing everything on here who has it in for him of being close to Henry Cecil and their problem is Fallon supposedly broke up the Cecil's marriage, even though he didn't.

My point was Afsare has only won 4 races and Listed company has been the highest level and has been beaten at Gr1/2/3 level every time, so of course the horse is going to run better back at Listed company and would have done so regardless as to whether Fallon was on it or not. My main point though is the owner thinks his horses are better than they actually are and so was well beaten at Gr1 level at Royal Ascot with Richard Hughes on it.

The winner yesterday is decent but you describe it as "a genuine Gr 1 horse" but what exactly does that mean anyway? It's never won a Gr1 but ran and was placed in one last time but so has Afsare but I wouldn't consider that horse a "genuine Gr1 horse" personally. The Gr1 that Mandor ran in and placed 3rd had it 1¼L behind Maxios and that one was 3L in front of Afsare in the Prince of Wales's Stakes at Royal Ascot where they were 6th and 8th, so for Maxios to beat Afsare ¾L would make the latter a Genuine Gr1 horse if the former is, which I don't actually feel applies to either of them.

oh dear spencer,nargys.woefull

kieron 4.6.haddock.

How are you getting on with your 60 Quid profit from last IMA ? did you invest any on the King just there in the Old Newton Cup. OI OI the King of the Pink Lady

KIERON 4.6.

Facts     05 Jul 13 09:22 
saddo     05 Jul 13 09:15 
His character is very relevant imo, he is on one of my fancies tomorrow and I cannot help but wonder if he wants it to win or not.


Are you talking about Opinion ?





Seemingly not saddo.

Don't normally knock a jockey - but that was a poor poor ride in my opinion.
Opinion could have - and should have - won that race.

Cant help feeling he should have made more use of his good draw

Obviously.

LOL...I give up with some of the ludicrous opinions on here so think I'll just laugh and move on.

SHEIK OBAID ,8 RUNNERS  ALL LOST ALL DIFFERENT JOCKEYS,SINCE KIERON SACKING, GET A LIFE FALLON BASHERS.

FALLON....GENIUS...LEGEND.....

There are plenty of things that havent been proved in a court of law for a variety of reasons, that did happen.
You sound like someone who needs a conviction to believe something took place. Sounds naive to me, but each to their own.

JEFKA 05 Jul 13 17:22 Joined: 27 Jun 02 | Topic/replies: 314 | Blogger: JEFKA's blog
Again you're insinuating Fallon defrauded punters . To my knowledge there has never been any proof of this.

Prior comment made in reference to this opinion.

Would you buy double glazing from him?

Well surely tinkler if it's supposedly such common knowledge the average Joe Punter on Betfair's forums knows it then you would think the authorities and some of the best legal brains in the country could unearth a shred of evidence or two. Why don't you contact the BHA and give them the stack of it you clearly have on him and do all punters a favour then?

The Old Bailey case didn't end with a jury finding Fallon not guilty and had that been the case then you might have  a point. Instead it ended when a judge chucked out the case because there wasn't one to answer, thereby everyone else who did have one to answer "got off" by association considering the media had labelled it he Fallon Trial. Practically everyone else involved has since been banned or warned off considering they did have something to answer to, including some who even admitted their guilt. Yet what did anyone supposedly have on Fallon? That fine upstanding newspaper the News of the World (whatever happened to that?) were bugging his phone and trying to set up a sting that died a death when Fallon didn't bite, yet as soon as he made a monumental human error c0ck up on Ballinger Ridge, they must have thought Christmas had come early!

I would suggest shudacuda the problem there is more about the product and sales methods that that industry has so quite a poor analogy if you don't mind me saying.......Apart from anything else, I wouldn't buy double glazing from Kelly Brook if she rang my doorbell naked. I might be tempted to let her in though and listen to her sales pitch, although "listen" might be stretching it a bit.

Top Cees

'proof' in a continuous stream for years - in what world is there any absence of proof?

was gonna say that one meself^^

overwhelmingly often, it is the cry of the guilty, not the wrongly accused : 'where's the proof?'.    Almost enough for a conviction in and of itself it's such a giveaway

Atzeni gave Emirates Queen a peach in the Lancashire Oaks, I can't decide if Deadbrain is fishing or not here.

dm...funny how there are no swaffham handicap uploads on youtube

Facts     06 Jul 13 15:48 
Facts     05 Jul 13 09:22 
saddo     05 Jul 13 09:15 
His character is very relevant imo, he is on one of my fancies tomorrow and I cannot help but wonder if he wants it to win or not.


Are you talking about Opinion ?


Sorry, facts, got my days wrong, it was Diapenko on the Friday, was weak during the morning but nowt untoward, went laim.

He's on a cheaply bought one her at Ripon , hasn't set world alight but well backed

For what it's worth I have said on here several times that the Top Cees ride was iffy and still believe so and whilst not excusing it, that was nearly 20 years ago when Fallon's career was at a much lower standing than it was for Ballinger Ridge ride, which itself was almost 10 years ago but is that really the best people can come up with? The suggestion over BR was he deliberately threw the race apparently for payment but surely nobody is suggesting that was the case with Top Cees? Again whilst it doesn't make it right regardless, wasn't that actually a case of the trainer's husband giving Fallon shall we say "specific" instructions bearing in mind the Chester Cup was the horse's main target later on?

Something 101 other trainers and jockeys do so where are the continuous threads every time one of theirs is beaten that you find is the case almost without fail whenever it involves Fallon? So despite there apparently being a "continuous stream for years" we have to go back almost a decade for a genuine human error c0ck and almost another decade before that for a ride where he gave the horse an easy time in a prep race for a main target next time out.

PIGGOT WENT TO JAIL.

ima_mazed66     09 Jul 13 00:20 



Thought you were 'moving on ' ?

I did.....I moved on to another day and my next posts on the subject.

A figure of speech although I actually said I "think" (key word there) I will just laugh and move on but even if I was saying I wasn't going to post any more on the subject, never heard or this quaint little thing called changing your mind? When people such as yourself direct a post to me by my user name it would just seem rude not t respond, hence this post here now.

* of

Oops typo.....I would have got away with it too if it wasn't for those pesky meddling keys.

A continuous typing error habit of mine with R and F so close on the keyboard and the spell checker not picking it up due to both being actually words. I've even "spelt" my name wrong in the past via hitting the wrong key and "teh" is another old favourite of mine too and you won't believe the number of times I've wished some good "lick" before.

I was actually thinking of starting up a support group for dodgy typists:

All crup tipysts uf teh wurld untie!

and its another for cumani 9/4.

If that winner was Sheikh Mohammed Obaid Al Maktoum's he would probably be supplementing it for the King George now!

and its another win for kieren,/stouty.

Pity it wasn't last saturday !

For the same connections/owners as he rode the winners of the Derby, 2000gns, King George, Prix Niel, Musidora Stakes, Nassau Stakes, Yorkshire Oaks (twice) and Breeders' Cup Filly & Mare Turf.

Amazing what some of these jockeys can do when they get on a half decent one eh?

The ultimate irony Facts that I'm afraid you seem to be missing a little is that for much of both races he has given both horses practically the same ride.

It really shouldn't be a massive surprise though if with a field of 17, run 4 seconds slower that average and with the whole field there or thereabout after 10f of a 12f race that a few won't get a run, compared to today's race with only 8 runners and where half the field dropped away when beaten around the 2f pole.

RP comments for each race:

Saturday/Opinion - Held up in mid-division, driven over 4f out, not clear run 2f out until switched right just inside final furlong, ran on well

Today/Northern Meeting - Took keen hold, held up on inner towards rear, took close order over 5f out, switched right and headway 3f out, led well over 1f out, soon pushed clear, easily

And the thing is mid-division in a 17 runner field is roughly the equivalent of at the rear in an 8 runner one and in both instances Fallon generally had both horses around 6L off the pace. If anything he was in a worse position during stage of today's race if the whole field had been able to stay competitive for longer.

ima whos your fav jockey?.

ima

The ultimate irony Facts that I'm afraid you seem to be missing a little is that for much of both races he has given both horses practically the same ride.



One of the most ludicrous posts I've ever read on here. What an earth have those two races got in common other than the trainer and the jockey. Completely irrelevant comparing the two totally different fields/horses to answer why Opinion lost on saturday.

Usually whoever has just ridden a winner for me deadbrain59.

Fallon has his flaws both a a jockey and a man but nowhere near what some on here seem to suggest.

I didn't particularly compare the races, I compared the rides so that's another point you have clearly missed I'm afraid Facts.

I even highlighted the ppst race comments that shown the similarity in rides, that's rides not races. I'm glad though that you have somehow inadvertently stumbled on the answer that they were two different fields and therefore field sizes and seeing as one was double the field size of the other, then which do you reckon you are most likely to have traffic problems in if coming from off the pace, the 17 runner one where most of the field were still in contention late on or the 8 runner one where half the field had dropped away by late on?

If you still want me to answer your question all the same then both races were 12f so it's not as if it's a 5f sprint and a 12f middle distance to staying race where the rides are being compared. Both were on left turning tracks so it's not like a ride comparison with a straight race where you are less likely to get boxed in and I've already told you how both rides were similar for much of them, it's only the final outcomes that were different and for the reasons I've said about half a dozen times now.

Please excuse me for elaborating and backing up what I say rather than just spout stuff like "the most ludicrous posts I've ever read on here" and leaving it at that as you have, without actually telling us why that is supposedly the case. And I don't think merely saying "different fields/horses" for the reason you intended saying it qualifies, otherwise you might just as well say if two different horses run the same race in the King George and Arc, say if they both made all or both came from last to first then you can't compare the rides because it's "different fields/horses."

Fallon written an article on Corruption in today's weekender.
Difficult to put out anything meaningful on these Fallon threads without it being removed.

ima - do you actually think you're making a relevant point with all your pontificating ?


Your argument is based on the following:-

Both races were 12f
Both were on left turning tracks

and make the conclusion that :- it's only the final outcomes that were different

Really ?

There are  huge differences in the two races, namely :-



[b]Northern Meeting   - Grade 4 track, Class 5 £4,500 Maiden Auction


Opinion            - Grade 1 track, Class 2 £100,000 Old Newton Cup (Heritage H'cap)

Hardly the same as your example ( King George/Arc)


Give up ima - you are making yourself look a fool - which I'm sure you're not !

I think it's you Facts who needs to give up and is making a fool of yourself I'm afraid.

I really can't make this any easier but what part of I was comparing the rides rather than the races didn't you quite understand the previous few times I have already said it? I even tried to emphasis the key words with the Italic feature on here for the words rides and races and have now done so with the bold option too, plus even described a couple of examples of how you can still have horse be given basically the same rides on two different courses when pointing out they can either make all or come from off the pace, despite Ascot/KG and Longchamp/Arc not having very man similarities course wise anyway.

I had also thought it was fairly obvious that if I was talking about the two Fallon rides being very much the same for much on the races, adding only the final outcome being different then things like track grade, prize money and so on are largely irrelevant. If Lionel Messi scored the winning goal in the Champions League final via a penalty placed in the top left corner and Kevin Phillips also scored the same kind of penalty to win his side promotion in the play-offs, by me comparing the manner of how those penalties where executed doesn't actually mean I'm comparing the players or the level that they are competing at does it?

There's only one of the two of us comparing the races here and it certainly isn't me.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Puerile, REPORTED.

See oldgit1's post 23.33 yesterday.

saddo

Interesting holywell. Whatever the reason for the performance - I agree he's a smart horse - and shall invest in him again this season.A good race ( h'cap) is there for the taking imo.

Just noticed he has an entry in the Ebor at York ( 24th Aug)

Backed Opinion, and he gave it a bad ride, pure and simple, and then
a litany of excuses in the paper, says it all really. Don't get many rides for
Stouty, so he wont be happy he fcuked it up, and in a valuable race. I'm afraid Mr Fallon
is on the downgrade these days.

12/1 jolly, aunty post.

oh dear motley you will be bored to death now by im amazing for someone who is 66

saddo

that's a decent price

Will it run, will it stay, has it gone up? Best rating band appears to be 90-101

I've bumped into I'm a mazda many times on here Facts, he's like our dear friend
brigust, thread tends to go on and on and on. Replies become like mini thesis'es
and my give a sh-t meter just runs out

It's an early closer saddo, runs off same mark 103, if it
got fast ground and a low draw?

I seem to remember high is best for some reason.

At York? maybe if it's heavy, and they come up the stand side,
prefer low draw every time.

Just quoting what I read, m8.

Draw
Horses drawn the highest 7 stalls: 8-8-70
Horses drawn in the middle stalls: 0-8-65
Horses drawn in the bottom 7 stalls: 2-14-70
All 10 winners have been drawn in the highest or lowest 7 stalls but there is a serious bias to those drawn in the highest 7 stalls, which is where 8 of the last 10 winners came from.

Interesting stats Saddo, where were the last 10 winners drawn on gd or fast grd?
When betting at York, always considered a low draw a big plus, waiting for magnet cup
draw before I bet.

Agree about Opinion winning a nice race, Rye House is another for them imo, Ryan chose him over Opinion at Ascot before it was a nr, he was entered on saturday but has been pulled again, I assume because of the ground.

Facts
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Funnily enough Facts that's the default setting people resort to having just made an arse of themselves.....and on numerous times too.

Like I said before motley01, forgive me for not just saying it wasn't a bad ride and leaving it at that rather than explain why I think that, as opposed to the way those saying is was a bad ride say that but add little evidence to support it.

A few questions for you here regarding the race in question:

1. was it a small or large field?
2. was it a fast or slow time?
3. how many were still in contention at the 2f pole?

and then based on hopefully your accurate answers to those questions

4. so why are you so surprised that Fallon and other jockeys didn't get a clear run in the race?

And oh look, practically the whole field still bunched up and in contention late on in the first at Newmarket just now with only 8 runners and there was a hard luck in running story with the way the race panned out, so why people are shocked when the same things happens with 17 runners is totally bewildering.

I think his give a **** meter has run out, ima.

Probably saddo but I suppose that's the problem with low attention spans and funnily enough that's what tends to happen with people when others don't accept their version of events and instead give their own more accurate interpretations.

It's funny too how the give a sh1t meter never runs out when they are making their own posts though eh?

dannadana moore rode it lost.,will he be sacked.

Nah, he will probably just still not realise his horses aren't as good as he thinks they are so remove them all from Cumani's yard.

Oh and Danadana didn't just lose it was stone bonking last and yet before the last time it ran on unsuitably soft ground, Fallon had won on it 4 times from its last 5 starts so exactly what do some of these owners want?

So anyway, presumably that's Doyle, Hughes, Moore and Spencer all "banned" from riding his horses now too?

ima_mazed66     11 Jul 13 13:51 
Facts
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Funnily enough Facts that's the default setting people resort to having just made an arse of themselves.....and on numerous times too. Happy

Like I said before motley01, forgive me for not just saying it wasn't a bad ride and leaving it at that rather than explain why I think that, as opposed to the way those saying is was a bad ride say that but add little evidence to support it.

A few questions for you here regarding the race in question:

1. was it a small or large field?
2. was it a fast or slow time?
3. how many were still in contention at the 2f pole?

and then based on hopefully your accurate answers to those questions

4. so why are you so surprised that Fallon and other jockeys didn't get a clear run in the race?

And oh look, practically the whole field still bunched up and in contention late on in the first at Newmarket just now with only 8 runners and there was a hard luck in running story with the way the race panned out, so why people are shocked when the same things happens with 17 runners is totally bewildering.




Oh do please fcuk off !

And that's the other kind of response deflated people tend to resort to when shown the facts er, Facts.

I also noticed you chose not to answer the 4 questions too. I wonder why?

You just can't stop can you ? Have you ever seen Planes ,Trains  and Automobiles. The scene where Steve Martin turns on John Candy - and likens him to a talking doll. Where you keep pulling on the string - and she just goes bleh,bleh ,bleh,bleh !! 
You have a problem my friend.The winter nights must just fly by in your house

Oh dear I'm a Mazda, you are really are displaying your lack of race reading skills, yet again.
Let me give you an alternative to the post race comments you have posted.

Missed break from low draw, restrained, got behind on inner, a rival went up inner (general sir wade)
dropped back a further couple of places, rider stayed in same position in moderately run race.
Horse continually denied a clear run all the way up straight, finished really well, unlucky.

You really mustn't let your unjustified, inflated opinion of a jockey, that is clearly on the downgrade.
cloud your ltd ability to read a race. I suggest to you, if it isn't readily apparent to you that, that
was a terrible ride, maybe this games not for you

I just can't stop? Erm, aren't you also still replying yourself? Isn't the lack of self awareness a quaint thing eh?

I assume too that you are also still struggling with your answers to my 4 questions or have answered them and realised they actually support what I have said all along and not what you have.

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/c31ac68de3/ted-bores-fellow-passengers-from...

And I wouldn't disagree with too much of that summing up motley01, so since you are querying my race reading skills, does that suddenly make what you have posted up rubbish too now then?

I've said all along Opinion could have gone closer with better luck in running and it went close anyway despite not getting the clearest or runs, my only disagreement with some other posters is that they have put it down to a bad ride for not getting a clear run and I have done so due to the reasons I have previously outlined and which your post above even supports.

I said it was just bad luck in running due to a big field of 17 runners, run at a slow pace where many were still in contention at the 2f pole in a 12f race. So when your post above mentioned "rider stayed in same position in moderately run race" what's the difference? Both interpretations point out that Fallon had nowhere to go due to the slow pace which in turn would explain why so many so many runners stayed in connections for so long. What else were you expecting him to do, barge his way out and get a ban? He was continuously looking to edge out around runners but couldn't, then when he did he flew at the finish by all to late, so basically you are blaming Fallon for how the other 16 jockeys rode their races then?

Interesting you should mention Sir Graham Wade too because I've already pointed out numerous times that Joe Fanning got no run either so is that also Fallon's fault?

Greeser, I'm fixing the ligature as I post.

LOL....has it ever occurred to any of you that some of us might actually feel the same way with these continuously tedious and unjustified Fallon knocking threads every time he gets beaten on one or are your views as blinkered on that too?

Oh and by the way motley01, Fallon didn't look too shabby on Silk Sari the other day or Northern Meeting for that matter considering he's apparently "clearly on the downgrade."

^ At the risk of joining the zombies - Don't think it takes too much to not look shabby in a 3yo Maiden Filly Class 5 race at a Grade 4 track. But what do I know eh ?- maz666

Very good silverg


The excerpt from T,P & A


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iU0CuPH7akM

Once again Facts you seem to be struggling to master the difference between a jockey displaying a quality ride and a race of quality itself. Do you only get good winning rides in Gr1s then?

I wonder how often Ride of the Week on ATR is won with a Classic winning or Gr1 ride as opposed to the bread and butter everyday stuff?

apart from hughesy ,riding all hannon 2yr olds,there isnt much difference in the winning stats ,hughes fallon?

facts loved that movie probably my favourite comedy of all time.

Yet another of this owner's horses beaten with a different jockey on board.....He'll be running out of finding someone to ride them soon if he sacks them all.

Fallon currently pi55ing himself

*Breaking news*.....Apparently the owner had just asked his racing manager if he can sack the stall handlers.

It's starting to look like Fallon ruined a lot of these horses.

Far too often we get the "poor ride threads",  when we've done our dough, but not nearly enough appreciative threads when a jockey has performed exceptionally to coax an unwilling partner to the front right on the jam stick , or slipped the field , kicked on and held off all comers or overcome poor luck in running but through some genius and quick thinking the pilot has managed to maneuver out of the trouble and still get up in time.  If a jockey/ horse combination regularly gets the better of ding dong battles it's invariable put down to the gutsiness of the horse with little credit given to the man on top and horses that regularly finish a close second are called all sorts of names ,not without good reason, as we all know about the pack mentality . Anyway, we don't know the reasons for Obaid deciding he doesn't want Fallon on board any more. He pays the bills associated with his horses and is fully entitled to put whoever he likes in the plate. There are plenty capable jocks available but I wouldn't ride Kieron off just yet.

LOL @ Brother Mouzone, I thought people only had fish in Friday's?

The Sheikhs next move imo

I think that was a decent effort by both Moore and Dutch Courage there given the run of the race.

Personally, I think the real story was Fallon allowing his horse to roll towards the rail and only bothering to take corrective action after the damage was done. Ruined whatever chance Al Baz might have had and could have been a very nasty incident.

He rides when he wants.
Very dangerous to put a 'spotlight ' jockey up, don't you think?
Next.

and another winner for cumani.

dettori 1/65 rides,

Not really having much luck with his numerous new jockeys this owner is he? I wonder why?

Could see Graham Lee riding a lot for Cumani next year and possibly getting some form of retainership. Some of the Newmarket trainers look
keener to put him up. Could follow in Fallons footsteps going from North to south. Doubt he'll reach the level of riding ability Fallon achieved at his
peak 15 years ago. But has already displayed a level of common decency Fallon could only dream about.

In your opinion Tinler (Lol)

lee has a lower strike rate than kieren.

It has to be said that Sheikh Obaid stood by him a lot longer than most of the top trainers seeing as Fallon's been shunned for big race rides for quite a while now. Godolphin used him quite a bit over the winter in Dubai but despite the fact they've been using numerous different jockeys lately he hasn't ridden many for them this summer.

Can't really see why he'd want to carry on beyond the end of the season to be honest.

same strike rate as hughes.

Stuck in traffic again tonight, first race missed so far.