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Question mark over Black Caviar as steroids saga takes new twist
Question mark over Black Caviar as steroids saga takes new twist
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people saying "it's not fair she beat horses at Ascot who aren't drugged like she was"
what about Soul?  spyker • May 1, 2013 12:03 PM BST Not to mention spyker, even if she was on a severe steroid program leading up to Ascot, there is every chance she wasn't on as much as the rest of the horses running around at Ascot. FACT Proof please - no conjecture and guesswork on this thread please - there is a poster lurking that is very hot on people making it up as they go along and he will break you! Prove to me she was drugged then you can start throwing around your wild claims and accusations, all good when it suits you but you won't have a bar of it when it goes against you, double standards I believe is the term oh and by the way, never ****g bring my family into an online discussion you dirt piece of human. |
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Go to bed, your drunk
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is that all you got? ffs man, you have to do better
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Ridding the world of steroid menace is a complex issue
While Hong Kong has little tolerance, finding a level playing field will take some doing Alan Aitken South hinaa Morning Post alan.aitken@scmp.com The events of last week in England involving trainer Mahmood Al Zarooni and anabolic steroids is clearly something that will be occupying racing's top administrators for some time. Harmonisation of rules even in respect of the (relatively) simpler areas like protests have proved difficult, but those are pebbles when stood against the monolithic obstruction of the different management of steroids issues in different jurisdictions along the road to a level playing field. In the immediate aftermath of the Al Zarooni findings, leading British trainer Roger Charlton was the one to voice a view doubtless held by other trainers there regarding the use of steroids with Australian sprinters which have cleaned up Royal Ascot sprints in the last decade or so. British trainers aren't permitted to use steroids without breaching their rules but Australian trainers would be within the rules training up their horses at home with steroids, as they are presented at Ascot drug free on race day. There have long been mutterings from European trainers about what goes on in Dubai, with certain horses that have emerged from there and not been able to take elsewhere what seemed invincible talents. That's just three jurisdictions - and don't even think about the United States. Actually, if there is to be any hope of getting everyone on the same page, the first step would be to leave the US out of discussions altogether. US racing seems to have no inclination to address even the concept of drug-free racing, let alone implementation, so even having it at the table would put a brake on the whole process before it starts. Issues on steroid use go beyond the therapeutic argument or the horses in-or-out-of-training argument and reaches to areas beyond the actual athletics involved in races, because steroids can do so many things. Steroids occur naturally in horses as hormones but can be added artificially and they can control, boost and accelerate so many of the normal bodily functions from increasing appetite to creating muscle to assisting healing or recovery or withstanding injury, and so on and so on. Hands up any owner or trainer who bought a horse off a barrier trial somewhere or bought a yearling - and that includes anywhere, even Britain - and found it shrunk in the wash when he or she got it home. Ah, yes. A sea of hands, as we suspected. The issue goes to the residual worth or qualities of stallions or broodmares which may have spent their racing careers in jurisdictions where steroids are permitted in some fashion or another. Winfried Engelbrecht-Bresges, in his role as vice-chairman of the International Federation of Horseracing Authorities (IFHA), delivered a clear message on Sunday: whatever discussions are undertaken and conclusions emerge on steroids, the first target has to be the anabolics that are used to inflate horses like bodybuilders. Their purpose is performance enhancement, whatever else they might be able to do, and perhaps the only option for the world's ruling body will be to make even possession of them punishable under the rules, never mind their use. That probably isn't a black and white issue either - few things are - but there are more than 50 shades in the discussions that come after that. There are other types of steroids, the kind permitted here in joint injections that have caused so much angst between trainers and vets this season, for example. There will probably be jurisdictions that will argue about whether horses should be injected to ease joint problems like that during a racing campaign, while others will argue that horse welfare is served with therapeutic used of certain types of steroid. Or that horse racing will collapse without them. The Al Zarooni case was said to have opened a can of worms, but it is no ordinary can and these are worms like anacondas. |
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Prove to me she was drugged then you can start throwing around your wild claims and accusations, all good when it suits you but you won't have a bar of it when it goes against you, double standards I believe is the term oh and by the way, never ****g bring my family into an online discussion you dirt piece of human.
Ahh - up to your usual standard I see Sc - please point me to my posts where i have been anything other than unreasonable on this issue and made any claims (wild or not) abut BC or any other Aussie horse. BTW - you're allowed to say what you want and insult how you like but others aren't? I've not even bothered reading that thread (or the aussie forum) since as your replies simply aren't worth replying to - well unless you accuse me of things i haven't done and it helps expose you as the liar and fool that you so obv are Please search away sc search away..... |
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In the immediate aftermath of the Al Zarooni findings, leading British trainer Roger Charlton was the one to voice a view doubtless held by other trainers there regarding the use of steroids with Australian sprinters which have cleaned up Royal Ascot sprints in the last decade or so.
British trainers aren't permitted to use steroids without breaching their rules but Australian trainers would be within the rules training up their horses at home with steroids, as they are presented at Ascot drug free on race day. There have long been mutterings from European trainers about what goes on in Dubai, with certain horses that have emerged from there and not been able to take elsewhere what seemed invincible talents. lol.. So the steroids they use in Dubai wear off at the border, but the steroids we use help us world wide? Oh dear... If steroid use was so beneficial, I am sure that horses in Dubai could easily run a campaign in "drug free" England and clean up.... "Training up their horses with steroids"...... Clearly an unbiased view of the subject. A must inclusion for all threads, not only the ones regarding drugs in racing.... What hope do you really have if this is the kind of baloney you subscribe to? |
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spyker 27 Apr 13 09:55
Sc why do you post on here? You bring nothing to any 'discussion' you get involved in and ruin any chance of any sort of debate. You display no knowledge of anything ever and just insult people you take a dislike to. Other forum contributers obv humour you and you feed off it like algae. I have not been anti Aus in anything i have said yet you still write the tosh you do. If you fecked off for a month the aussie forum might go back to being worth a read and the people that left a while ago might come back. Do everyone a favour and go and post your drivel on whatever other forums you pollute. I imagine you've behaved as you do on here throughout your life and now realise that you are lonely and are going to get lonelier as you get older. You've driven anybody that has cared for you away, you have a terrible relationship with your kids (though everybody pretends it's fine) and your wife hates you. This and other forums are the only places left where you still feel 'the boss' - I pity you i really do. Now like i said feck off, go to your ibuprofen thread as that is just about your level. that doesn't expose me, that exposes you. I am a fair enough kind of guy, sure I have a little fun and push a few boundaries but I would never EVER make it so personal to bring my family into it as I said the other day it says more about you then it does about me. |
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But you're the forum daddy sc who has us pommies running for cover - why let what an insignificant oik such as myself affect you so much? I apologise to your wife and kids - there is obv no truth in what i said.........
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before this debacle ,I had no idea aus,Dubai ,could legaly use steroids out of training,I can see now why British trainers moan like hell when overseas horses run UK
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She came back, ran 3 more times, at least 1 of those times was a free entry for the last time she would be seen racing.
Retirement has been on the cards for a long time, and it was planned. Was it feck planned. Co-owner Neil Werrett admitted he did not know last Saturday's race at Randwick would be Black Caviar's swansong. "I didn't know Saturday was her last run," Werrett said. "I thought she would be racing again." |
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Asked if Black Caviar had ever been given steriods, Moody told the Melbourne Herald Sun: "Nil. Steroids increase bulk. Black Caviar was a huge mare, from the day she was born. It would have been absolutely counter-productive.
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"out of training" is being used to confuse with " off course" lets be clear "out of training" means not registered imo and hence a horse "out of training" in the uk could be given anything its owner wanted to give it ,it would not come under BHA ect jurisdiction ,the cart horse down at the milk yard is "out of training" .
"on course" "off course" if its registered as in training it cant be given steroids ,if its out of training in the uk it can be given anything imo . do the rules of the BHA state a horse can not race under rules of racing if at any time IN ITS LIFE it has been administered a banned substance under the rules of "racing" i very much doubt it . what constitutes "out of training " in the diff countries uk/aus/uae/ire/usa ect ? should mean not registered as in training and under the jurisdiction of the racing authorities ,it should not be used as "off racecourse " imo ....stand to be corrected  |
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Castiron
You obviously have little idea how steriods work. So why don't you tell me what you know and then I'll tell you what I do know? BJT So how exactly do you know the stats on how many European horses race on drugs in America? And they are actually breaking the rules. You know the ones that say European horses aren't allowed drugs in training or spelling. Whether they do them off shore is really irrelevant. Unless you are suggesting you have no issue with European horses to spell overseas and receive a steroid training regime for their upcoming European races? I don't but I doubt Moody does either but my point was some raced on drugs and some didn't and that's all anyone needs to know. Smoking marijuana in this country is illegal but isn't in other places so if I go over there and smoke some, I don't expect to have the police waiting for me at the airport to arrest me once I get off the plane. Like I said, when in Rome and all that, you go by the rules of where you are, otherwise foreign jockeys would be coming over here and using their whip 101 times and then claim it's OK where they come from. megsy maybe the 2011 St James's Palace Stakes was frankels true running, maybe he was on jellybeans uh?? you are so full of it, take a newspaper with you next time your sitting down and read the funnies, you certaintly aint getting knowledge reading the racing pages. english racing is more or less had it, what now since your cotton wool kids gone into retirement. you have nothing, absolute nothing, except drug cheating trainers and others who whinge when beaten inside their own little turf. LOL....I should have known it was beyond you to be able to work out the not to subtle differences between BC's Jubilee run and Frankel's SJP, so let me see if I can help you a little here. BC didn't run her race that different to most of her others, it's not as if she blasted out from the off and was treading water at the line or sat way out the back in last place and then only just got up on the line or that she kicked at full pace from a fully 4f out, like I said, she just basically ran her usual race of being generally well placed throughout the race and starting to quicken around the 2f mark. Frankel in the SJP went full pelt for 4f of the mile to try to chase down his pacemaker when his jockey was worried it had gone off far fast after not being able to get to the lead in the 2000gns. If BC kicked 4f out in a 6f race let alone a mile one she would be treading water too but according to you horses do there fastest sectionals in the final furlong and aren't actually slowing compared to a couple of furlongs before that and that is totally wrong. Here's a clue too of why you shouldn't judge Frankel on the SJP run alone and that's because he kicked so fast and early that that was his second smallest winning margin ever (the first being on debut when beating Nathaniel) and was only 2¼L in front of Excelebration that day despite previously having beaten that horse 4L at only 7f earlier and since the SJP has also beaten him 4L, 5L and 11L at a mile. I don't really know why I bother wasting my time educating you as you will only either bury your head in the sand and ignore these facts or will have trouble retaining them and is why I've not bothered again to correct you on other things that you have claimed I have said that I haven't because you will only repeated the claim again anyway. |
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Thank feck they are fast asleep the whining Aussies
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Godolphin steroids fallout will not stop Australians at Royal Ascot
• Half-brother to Black Caviar on course to travel • Track will continue to pay some travelling costs Greg Wood at Ascot The Guardian, Wednesday 1 May 2013 @Greg_Wood_ Senior executives here said that the course will continue to subsidise the travelling costs of horses from around the world to enable them to race at the track, regardless of the drugs policies in operation in their native jurisdictions. "It's a rule thing," Nick Smith, Ascot's head of international racing said. "We don't make the rules, we couldn't stop them coming and as long as they are complying with the rules of racing, that's fine." At least two runners are expected to travel to next month's Royal meeting at Ascot from Australia, where anabolic steroids can be used to improve the condition of racehorses as long as the drug clears their system by the time of a race. All Too Hard, a half-brother to the brilliant Black Caviar, the winner of the Golden Jubilee Stakes at last year's Royal meeting, is expected to contest the Queen Anne Stakes, while Shamexpress is entered in the King's Stand Stakes. "My guess would be that if we weren't, for instance, paying a travel allowance, they would come anyway," Smith said. "It's now an established fact in international racing that that happens. No one comes because of the travel allowance, it doesn't even cover the trip, or half the trip. It's not it's all of a sudden that it's been found out that steroids are sometimes used in Australia, it's common knowledge. I understand that it's in the public eye now, but nothing has changed, our policies haven't changed. "We carry on as normal, business as usual. This is the international racecourse for Europe, and if they co-operate and run within the British rules of racing, they will be welcome." International rules on the use of anabolic steroids in racing have come under intense scrutiny since it emerged last week that Mahmood al-Zarooni, the former trainer in charge of Godolphin's Moulton Paddocks stable in Newmarket, had administered the performance-enhancing drugs to 15 of his horses. Zarooni, who claimed to be unaware of Britain's zero-tolerance policy on anabolics, was banned from racing for eight years by the British Horseracing Authority's disciplinary panel last Thursday, but would not have faced any sanctions in Australia, America or his native Dubai, where anabolics can be used outside competition. Paul Bittar, the chief executive of the BHA, has expressed hope that the fallout from the Zarooni scandal will persuade international racing authorities that the variance in doping rules must be addressed. The chance that there will be any imminent standardisation of the regulations appears remote, however. "It's not up to us what the rules are, that's a matter for the BHA," Charles Barnett, Ascot's chief executive, said. "They do the rules, we try to get horses here because they want to run and punters want to see them, and we do the promotion." The track also remains confident that an Australian winner at next month's Royal meeting will be warmly received by the spectators in the immense grandstand. "We're not worried at all," Smith said. "On the day, it will be absolutely fine." Ascot's commitment to international competition came on the same day as a statement from Peter Moody, the former trainer of Black Caviar, that she had never been given steroids. "Nil," Moody said when asked if Black Caviar had ever received the drug. "Steroids increase bulk. Black Caviar was a huge mare, from the day she was born. It would have been absolutely counter-productive." Moody added that Black Caviar had been dope-tested shortly after arriving in Britain on 7 June last year, and again a few days before her victory at Ascot on 23 June, returning a clean test on both occasions. The Queen's colours could be aboard one of the favourites for the Gold Cup at next month's Royal meeting, following the victory of Estimate in the Group Three Sagaro Stakes, the feature race on Wednesday's card. The four-year-old filly, who took the two-mile Queen's Vase at the 2012 Royal meeting, started favourite and readily went clear of her field in the closing stages. "That was great, very exciting," John Warren, the Queen's bloodstock advisor, said after the race. "I asked Ryan Moore [Estimate's jockey] whether she would stay another half-mile and he said 'we won't know until we try'. "Whatever runs in the Gold Cup, they are not bred to do it but she has got every chance as her pedigree is all stamina." |
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I can't believe that this thread is still alive......AD you are a master of this Piscary.....
I have tried to explain to BJ the Bluffer and his compatriots/aliases in the simplest possible terms what Anabolic steroids are and yet still they seem determined to defend the indefensible....and so alas i shall have to respect their right to be stupid.... ignorance is apparently bliss after all. |
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it's all mindless bullshit, another thing you can go around accusing our horses of doing, the rules are different but you can't prove who is and isn't injecting their animals, therefore you can't take away the things she achieved all because of the rules associated with our racing
I don't see people belittling ZENYATTA's feats or GOLDIKOVA's feats, wonder why  btw, if SHAMEXPRESS comes to your back end paddock in Ascot and wins, well nothing more proven could be said about the quality of Black Caviar AD is the master of 1 thing only, the c0ck. |
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Frankl the greatest flat horse of all time not as much as an Aspirin, lean and slick. BC as big as a Shire horse and balls bigger then Bullock ...yep indeed she was never giving anything
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greatest of all time? not even listed here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_historical_horses I know what you like to give, you dirty little c0ckmaster. |
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You'd want to be pretty naive to think BC was never given a few courses of steroids when you consider its completely legal to do so, all the other aussie trainers are doing it so you keep up with the Joneses if you don't want to fall behind, but it would also be naive to think (amidst the recent Godolphin and Butler controversies) that many top horses in Britain and Ireland never received certain medications when in training but due to lax testing procedures by the BHA many of them were never caught?.
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Anaglogs relaxing
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Anaglogs in dress ups
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Anaglogs having a dummy spit because he feels inferior to aussies
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Three things Australian more famous up in the northern hemisphere then Black Caviar . . A 80 YEAR OLD MAN THAT DRESSES UP AS A WOMAN, AN 83 YEAR OLD WHOM IS HELPING POLICE WITH THEIR ENQUIRIES do you get the picture yet . . And Watered down larger ...strewth
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family portrait of Anaglogs
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So you are stating that all trainers in Australia issue steroids to improve performance?
Obviously not all of them can afford them, but those that can, do. |
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the tendency for Australian trainers to geld colts meant horses needed an artificial replacement for natural hormones.
It is rare for colts to be gelded in Britain usually a gelding is injected after his racing season has ended so he can thrive in the paddock, but most injections at administered into bone joints not muscles. maybe rewilding was doped up to beat SYT? if you want to call it cheating. |
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It is rare for colts to be gelded in Britain
eh? Jeezus where do you get this stuff from |
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"My guess would be that if we weren't, for instance, paying a travel allowance, they would come anyway,"
"No one comes because of the travel allowance, it doesn't even cover the trip, or half the trip." So Ascot are just throwing their money away with these payments then? And they are happy with this? If only they would spend it on heating the grandstand instead  |
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mugsy • May 2, 2013 7:48 AM BST
'It is rare for colts to be gelded in Britain'........ ....clueless as usual. |
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"Steroids increase bulk," Moody said.
"Black Caviar was a huge mare, from the day she was born. I think Moody is the one on drugs |
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It's friday night down under so the boys are out clubbing in their special club 'no women allowed' all the chaps dancing around megsys handbag...So they'll be here about 2pm-3pm out of their minds on man love talking utter ball locks
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it's thursday night mate
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Friday morning
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I have to work tomorrow I won't be getting knackered tonight unfortunately
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Does the wimps down under not start their weekend on their phiss-weak larger till a Friday?... Tut tut tut no wonder they were lying all over the ground in Ascot after 4 hours drinking.
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Work...hahaha...ye wouldn't work off the national grid
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LOL....at ComingSecond for digging me out for using Wiki (even though I didn't) as a source for facts and then resorts to using it just because someone hasn't bothered to put Frankel on a list there of historical horses on it......I'm guessing the clue there is in the word historical whereas Frankel might be considered as contemporary.
I know Black Caviar was there and had I thought they were capable I'd even suspect someone from here edited her in just to make a point.  But an even bigger LOL goes to mugsy who just made himself look like a total d1ck with the claim that colts are rarely gelded in the UK? Did you get that from Wiki too? Just about every male NH horse and plenty of other flat ones that might or might not go NH racing are gelded every season. |
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Drug twist in More Joyous racing feud
Mat Mackay, WWOS & AAP http://wwos.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=8651778 07:30 AEST Thu May 2 2013 Racing stewards are reportedly investigating whether More Joyous, the horse at the centre of the row between John Singleton and the Waterhouse family, was injected with an anti-arthritic drug before racing last weekend. Fairfax Media claims the mare was injected with pentosan polysulfate five days before the race and did not eat all her food that night, triggering concerns for her welfare. The drug is legal and commonly used in racing to relieve pain and inflammation in horses’ joints. It is usually administered in the neck, the area in which More Joyous later suffered soreness. She was given antibiotics to treat that soreness. The latest twist in the saga comes after retired jockey Allan Robinson said he was horrified by the public falling out of Singleton and trainer Gai Waterhouse that followed a phone call he made to the millionaire businessman over the condition of his horse. Singleton has accused Waterhouse's son, the bookmaker Tom Waterhouse, of telling people the champion mare could not win the All Aged Stakes at Randwick last Saturday. He has since withdrawn his stable of horses from Gai Waterhouse. "I'm horrified," Robinson told Today Tonight on the Seven Network, referring to the fallout following the race when More Joyous finished seventh in a field of eight. He defended Gai Waterhouse saying she would not let a horse run if it was not 100 per cent, but then pointed out that something must have been wrong, because More Joyous finished seventh. When asked if he would do the same thing again, Robinson made a lengthy pause, before saying: "Should you let it lie? Don't know." At a trackside inquiry on Saturday, Singleton refused to divulge the names of "trusted friends" who had told him Tom Waterhouse was saying there was a problem with More Joyous. On Tuesday Singleton's friend and rugby league legend Andrew Johns released a statement dismissing claims Tom Waterhouse had tipped him off about the condition of More Joyous. But on Wednesday night, Singleton broke his silence. "Names have already been named so my reluctance to name names has been taken away by the names naming themselves," he told the Nine Network. When asked if Johns and Robinson were those people, Singleton replied: "Yeah, they're both the people who rang me, yes." Tom Waterhouse has denied the accusations and will front the reconvened inquiry next Monday. It was revealed during Saturday's preliminary inquiry that More Joyous had been treated with antibiotics leading up to the All Aged but she had been cleared to run by two vets, including the one employed by Singleton |