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Get out now lads. This place will ruin your life and skin you.

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Replies: 205
By:
atom burns
When: 19 Feb 13 18:55
i win on hear and post' you are not winning because you do not what to win=fact
By:
bf_fananatic
When: 19 Feb 13 18:55
Many run swiftly and far, but the problem stays with themWink
By:
the dealer
When: 19 Feb 13 19:01
correct me if i'm wrong but did you not post this after comeonginger lost. was your main point posted on another thread that because of the betting it couldnt win.
if you had worked this out, why didnt you just lay it on both the win and place markets?
maybe this place isnt for you SPDC.
By:
atom burns
When: 19 Feb 13 19:02
so true / bf fananatic
By:
Roger De Bris
When: 19 Feb 13 19:06
a small part of the puzzle is determining which horses are trying.
A bigger part is knowing which horses have the ability to win.
By:
bf_fananatic
When: 19 Feb 13 19:06
Many fools could be the wisest people around but prefer to wait for the world to change just for them.
By:
FELTFAIR
When: 19 Feb 13 19:09
However much you are down triple it and put it on Sprinter Sacre in the Queen Mother and you`ll feel better.
By:
DirkDiggler
When: 19 Feb 13 19:21
To the thread starter:


The horses are the biggest mugs game going, to make money at this game (and it is a game, barring the really big meetings which you can probably reasonably trust) you have to be in the know, or extremely shrewd indeed. Are you one or the other or both?

If not pack it in, and go and bet on something less bent. Because this game is as bent as it goes, always has been and always will be. Why? because it's so easy to cheat and swindle.


The horses are for idiots, were it not for bookies, horse racing would not exist, can you say that about any other sport? (with the exception of the dogs)

Horse racing is the bookies benefit.
By:
11kv
When: 19 Feb 13 19:26
from all the mugs doing there dough on here week in week out of which i have been 1 but you wont. I'm done.




Their*


Sorry it was annoying me.
By:
Slicer
When: 19 Feb 13 19:35
I am saddened to read this thread and thought that just before I switch to football mode I would just add my 3 rupees worth.

A few years ago BetFair issued figures that showed that approx 1.1% of BetFair users made over £15k profit. That was over ALL sports. Some on here will argue that the figure is higher now. So you have to be better than approx 99% of other users to make something worthwhile on here.

Now this is most important. A lot of gamblers are delusiomal. Some on here not only refuse to admit they are losing, but they actually believe that they are winning, when in fact they are not. It would be quite an occurence if everyone posting on this thread is actually winning what they believe they are winning.

With regard to horse racing, I have joked in the past that ITCANTBEDONE. Now this is NOT the truth, BUT IT IS ALMOST THE TRUTH! We have all seen races where certain horses were not performing how they should for whatever reason. In my Slicer's List of Sayings, I state "There are lies, damn lies, statistics and then there is form!" Look at it this way: If there really was such a thing as reliable form there would be no bookies and no BetFair! Everyone would be winning! Now don't get me wrong. I know some are making a fabulous living from horse race betting. They are few and far between, but I have indeed met one. He was quiet, shy, wouldn't tell me how he did it other than to say it was very hard work taking up hours of reading and TELEPHONING!!!!! I've ridden in his car and been entertained in his faboulous residence.

Wasn't it the US actor Mickey Rooney who said something like it cost him 5 million dollars to try to win back his first 5 dollar losiing bet at the races!

To summarise, I, too, have tried almost everything to win consistently at horse racing. That includes trading, systems and much much more. I have proved that I CAN'T DO IT! And the fact is that most other BetFairians can't do it either. Horse race betting is like a game od snakes and ladders. A lot of BetFairians would be richer and would have lived a better life if BetFair had not been invented. But it has and so people must wake up. My specific advice to the OP who has lost a six figure sum is to close his account, put it down as a very very expensive hobby that has just ended and start afresh doing something less expensive and more useful. Never gamble again and seek help if you need it!

Well, that's my opinion. You can scream me down, insult me, or whatever, but I know what I am talking about. Winning at horse racing consistently is ALMOST impossible, but football betting, now that's another matter!

Good luck to all and especially to the OP in  his new life away from gambling.

This is posted in good faith and not in my usual jocular manner as I regard the loss of a 6 figure sum and its implications a very serious matter!

Best wishes,


Dr Aristotle Slicer
By:
mange
When: 19 Feb 13 19:38
thank you doctor
By:
Stake & Chips
When: 19 Feb 13 19:41
Slicer is very shrewed Silly
By:
Slicer
When: 19 Feb 13 19:45
Mr Chips- as ever your second opinion is valued, especially from someone as longstanding a forumite as what you is!
By:
bf_fananatic
When: 19 Feb 13 20:09
99% of horses run at there marks though not always as well in as the market would fool us

But punters are a different matter as vast amounts are left in the stalls, brought down by the odd

hurdle, slip up big time, fall at the first fence, run completely out and over the hills, stop in the middle

of the race to play games, fall over themselves at the first win.

The list goes on and on and unfortunately no steward can reprimand a punter for getting it wrong most of the time

and punters of many differing silks are forced to address there own problems one day soon before they are run ragged and

dance on the spotWink
By:
toronto44
When: 19 Feb 13 21:25
Good post SlicerThere may be a  very very few who can make money from racing but the vast majority of that 1% who do,are as others have said connections and people getting information or placing bets for connections,in running thieves,bot users and bookmakers.

I like to think I know my horses and I made a reasonable 2nd income for 20 years but its beat me for the last 4 years.If you are not receiving information I think it's nearly impossible.
By:
metro john
When: 19 Feb 13 21:25
I agree with steak and chipsWink you need a large bank balance to start,you need lots of time alone,and then if you do win(which i do not) they will knock you back ,close your accounts,and tax you for your efforts(Well done get out sir)Cool
By:
duncan idaho
When: 19 Feb 13 21:26
SteadyPaceDontChase
Joined: 26 Apr 11

Duncan you don't win. I can take one look through your posts and tell you that



As you wish....no skin off my nose.
By:
Whippin Piccadilly
When: 19 Feb 13 21:44
I find it quite amazing what some people expect from the game. They want to win lots of money by betting on horse racing, but without doing the required hard work. If most punters showed the same attitude in their "normal" jobs, with their sheer lack of effort. They wouldn't be in their jobs for too long! I find those who don't want to put the work in, are the type of people who don't enjoy the game. But, just want the buzz of gambling. Btw, I enjoy the game so much that the hard work that is required to beat the book, I find is not hard work at all.
By:
toronto44
When: 19 Feb 13 21:49
Cue all the fantasy winners
By:
metro john
When: 19 Feb 13 21:50
Laugh
By:
bf_fananatic
When: 19 Feb 13 21:52
Well lets look at Taunton today and if I rate the horses using a computer, then instruct the computer

to show me 2 outputs.

Out put 1  Horses that are rated and have been on average under 8/1 last three races.

Out put 2 Horses that are rated and 8/1 or over on average last 3 races.


Which output would be in profit today and on average profitable all year if you ignore the total

rubbish market constructed by touting Bookmakers that want an easy income out of folk like this OP?
By:
metro john
When: 19 Feb 13 21:53
The Secret^Love
By:
bf_fananatic
When: 19 Feb 13 21:54
The struggling gambler in you would force you to follow the market, all the way down the river every time!

But the budding professional punter in you wold only settle for VALUE.
By:
bf_fananatic
When: 19 Feb 13 21:54
One of many secrets that point to profitWink
By:
Whippin Piccadilly
When: 19 Feb 13 21:57
Toronto, hasn't made the game pay for the last 4 years (And I very much doubt your second income statement too). So, that must mean nobody has. Crazy
By:
bf_fananatic
When: 19 Feb 13 21:59
Here are the 2 outputs and its no surprise that output 2 is profitable today and at all my Cheltenham workbooksWink


Output 1- rated under 8/1 last 3 races

    2:00 »          points   
    Kauto D'Aloes         36   
               
               
    2:30 »          points   
    Realignment         2   
               
               
    3:05 »          points   
    Big Jer         38   
    Awbeg Massini         16   
    Comeonginger         3   
    3:40 »          points   
    Sametegal         30   
    Oscar Nominee         29   
    Home Run         21   
    4:15 »          points   
    Admiral Blake         14   
               
               
     4:45          points   
    Shadow Cruise         51   
    Torgamah Lad         19   
               



Ouput 2 rated and 8/1 or over last 3 races

    2:00 »          points   
    Edmund Kean         26   
    Minella For Party         15   
    Upswing         8   
    2:30 »          points   
    Bernard         44   
    Gilzean         17   
    Starlet Mandy         16   
    3:05 »          points   
    Return Spring         16   
    Neltara         16   
    Highland Retreat         11   
    3:40 »          points   
    Barizan         9   
    Chesil Beach Boy         8   
    Meganisi         3   
    4:15 »          points   
    Man Of Leisure         25   
    Spirit Of Lake         16   
    Kastani Beach         14   
     4:45          points   
    River Dancing         27   
               
               
By:
bf_fananatic
When: 19 Feb 13 22:01
Average industry price last 3 races...

Its not horses that beat punters, its the booksWink
By:
metro john
When: 19 Feb 13 22:04
http://youtu.be/EP685Q43BdQ
By:
toronto44
When: 19 Feb 13 22:08
Whipping P if you can't understand "there may be a very very few who can make money out of racing etc"
So that does not mean nobody does.Read it again WP I would have thought an understanding of basic information would be a requirement of making money!!!!!!!
By:
bf_fananatic
When: 19 Feb 13 22:08
Nice one Metro John.

Might treat you all to a demo of this simple filter applied at all last years Cheltenham races and lets

see what sifts outHappy
By:
metro john
When: 19 Feb 13 22:11
Good stuff BFF,i like to see and think about all methodsWink
By:
Whippin Piccadilly
When: 19 Feb 13 22:13
toronto44
19 Feb 13 21:49
Joined:  12 Jan 02 | Topic/replies: 1,488 | Blogger: toronto44's blog
Cue all the fantasy winners


ALL the fantasy winners? Confused
By:
metro john
When: 19 Feb 13 22:13
I was reading a article by Matt Gardner(american horse blogger) he seems to be using similar methods to your goodself.
By:
bf_fananatic
When: 19 Feb 13 22:20
You have to be careful though as for instance the AW, if you chuck out short priced runners you wont make profits

as its confirmed course horses or consistent type that are profitable and not the bigger odds, but at Wolverhamton

you get a really good spin out of the bigger priced horses.

Market forces for course!
By:
thegiggilo
When: 19 Feb 13 22:23
There must be some healthy accounts on here knowing where they get the picks from!!CoolShockedWink
By:
Greg_Gory
When: 19 Feb 13 22:24
GrinExcitedTongue OutShocked
By:
StillLearning
When: 19 Feb 13 22:32
wondered how long it would be before bf_fananatic would hijack the thread
By:
Roger De Bris
When: 19 Feb 13 22:35
bf fanatic takes over another thread with his s**** tables....LaughCry
By:
mepoor
When: 19 Feb 13 22:42
this actullay was one of the better threads as was about betting to win or betting to enjoy.or might add betting because addicted.
now there nothing wrong with the first two reasons, but the third is worrying.
the name of the thread starter is worrying also as he likely did chase at one time, maybe learning to not chase was his answer and stay solid in betting pattern ,thats why he now relized that the form isnt working all the time.
wee all know racing is lets say not run true all the time but that is part of the game handicapping.
so if we know they race to get better handicapp and we cant be sure when they are trying or not surely the only time they can try is when conditions are correct. now barbizan defied that today by winning on soft going although you go back 4 years he had run well of 12 higher mark at cheltenham on heavy.so if it takes 4 years  ago form to give him chance today then how can you trust that.
i know bf gave stats to prove that works on last three runs over 8/1 but that surely is tosh as i could give some stats that work after racing.
there was one horse run other day in four horse race the other three needed good ground he had won on soft twice i think, not going back to check horse but anyway he was around the 10/11 mark, right away i said he his a absolute banker bar fall ofcourse.
now if you want to back to win at horse racing he was the bet and could have won your weeks amount on him.
he hacked up and there was the form in book with no dangers in my eyes.
now the problem lies with do you want to wait for one like him every so often maybe one or two a week then fine.
but 99.9% dont and there is the answer why not chasing and betting for enjoyment are two differant things.
alot of people bet with there own stratagies but in my opinion, yiouy can either bet in running that is nbot to say no study  of form as u need to know what might happen next as race is running along with what your eyes are seing. or trust in the form book which we all know the better the race the better chance  form working,but back to earlier how far do we go back many years of form do we study.
i personnely think current  is what where looking at and if you see some thing which i missed with barizan  at time they beware of bad result, and look else where easier said than done ofcourse.
ENJOY ENJOY ENJOY OR DONT BET ON SOME THING YOU DONT ENJOY, JUST LIKE WORK TRY AND ENJOY OR YOU WILL BE MISERABLE.
By:
bf_fananatic
When: 19 Feb 13 22:48
Well I will use my latest creation though this is V 5.1 and not 5.2 which means i can ask

the computer to spectrum compare ratings relative to form ranges and progression vectors

to arrive at pretty accurate predictive strike rates, then find the most proftiable relative

to Predicted ROI% and rank them, in v5.2 I can apply many filters but this is 5.1 so I will

simply produce 2 tables as thus.

Table 1 predicted profitable runners at supposed strike rates and known BSP but under 8.0 BSP


Some well known runners including the last appearance of Kauto StarLove


Table 2 predicted profitable runners at supposed strike rates and known BSP but over 12.0 BSP

Some heavy weight prices defying the marketWink






Here goes.....




Table 1 predicted profitable runners at supposed strike rates and known BSP but under 12.0 BSP


Interestingly the computer cant find many shorties that seem to have any value which makes you wonder why

such an abundance of short prices at this track?

                    Ran        32.00        32.00   
                                       
                    Won        5.00        16.00   
                    SR%        15.63        50.00   
    Combined rating                                    
                    P/L        -5.51        5.60   
                                       
                                       
    1:30 »  Cheltenham         points        Result        Pl/s        place   
                                       
                                       
                                       
    2:05 »  Cheltenham         points        Result        Pl/s        place   
                                       
                                       
                                       
     2:40 »  Cheltenham         points        Result        Pl/s        place   
    Hold On Julio66          34        10        -1        -1   
                                       
                                       
    3:20 »  Cheltenham         points        Result        Pl/s        place   
                                       
                                       
                                       
    4:00 »  Cheltenham         points        Result        Pl/s        place   
                                       
                                       
                                       
    4:40 »  Cheltenham         points        Result        Pl/s        place   
                                       
                                       
                                       
    5:15  Cheltenham         points        Result        Pl/s        place   
                                       
                                       
                                       
    1:30 »  Cheltenham         points        Result        Pl/s        place   
                                       
                                       
                                       
     2:05 »  Cheltenham         points        Result        Pl/s        place   
                                       
                                       
                                       
     2:40 »  Cheltenham         points        Result        Pl/s        place   
                                       
                                       
                                       
    3:20 »  Cheltenham         points        Result        Pl/s        place   
                                       
                                       
                                       
    4:00 »  Cheltenham         points        Result        Pl/s        place   
                                       
                                       
                                       
    4:40 »  Cheltenham         points        Result        Pl/s        place   
                                       
                                       
                                       
     5:15  Cheltenham         points        Result        Pl/s        place   
                                       
                                       
                                       
    1:30 »  Cheltenham         points        Result        Pl/s        place   
                                       
                                       
                                       
    2:05 »  Cheltenham         points        Result        Pl/s        place   
    Our Father90         82        15        -1        -1   
                                       
                                       
    2:40 »  Cheltenham         points        Result        Pl/s        place   
    Riverside Theatre26          65        1        4.39        2.02   
                                       
                                       
     3:20 »  Cheltenham         points        Result        Pl/s        place   
                                       
                                       
                                       
    4:00 »  Cheltenham         points        Result        Pl/s        place   
                                       
                                       
                                       
    4:40  Cheltenham         points        Result        Pl/s        place   
                                       
                                       
                                       
    1:30 »  Cheltenham         points        Result        Pl/s        place   
                                       
                                       
                                       
    2:05 »  Cheltenham         points        Result        Pl/s        place   
                                       
                                       
                                       
    2:40 »  Cheltenham         points        Result        Pl/s        place   
                                       
                                       
                                       
    3:20 »  Cheltenham         points        Result        Pl/s        place   
    Kauto Star81 t          74        12        -1        -1   
                                       
                                       
     4:00 »  Cheltenham         points        Result        Pl/s        place   
                                       
                                       
                                       
    4:40 »  Cheltenham         points        Result        Pl/s        place   
                                       
                                       
                                       
     5:15  Cheltenham         points        Result        Pl/s        place   
    Kid Cassidy48          60        12        -1        -1   
                                       
                                       
    2:00 »  Cheltenham         points        Result        Pl/s        place   
    Jimbill36         52        4        -1        -1   
    Medinas15          28        6        -1        -1   
                                       
    2:35 »  Cheltenham         points        Result        Pl/s        place   
                                       
                                       
                                       
    3:10 »  Cheltenham         points        Result        Pl/s        place   
    Native Gallery32          196        3        -1        6.8   
                                       
                                       
    3:45 »  Cheltenham         points        Result        Pl/s        place   
    Hector´s Choice34         99        1        4.99        2.26   
                                       
                                       
     4:20 »  Cheltenham         points        Result        Pl/s        place   
    Water Garden60 p          21        2        -1        2.04   
                                       
                                       
    4:55 »  Cheltenham         points        Result        Pl/s        place   
    Frascati Park53          45        4        -1        -1   
                                       
                                       
    5:30  Cheltenham         points        Result        Pl/s        place   
    Star In Flight28         51        5        -1        -1   
                                       
                                       
    2:00 »  Cheltenham         points        Result        Pl/s        place   
    Russie With Love41          49        5        -1        -1   
                                       
                                       
    2:35 »  Cheltenham         points        Result        Pl/s        place   
    Arctic Ben29          54        2        -1        2.29   
    Back Bob Back28         23        5        -1        -1   
                                       
    3:10 »  Cheltenham         points        Result        Pl/s        place   
    Francesa10          42        2        -1        1.93   
                                       
                                       
    3:45 »  Cheltenham         points        Result        Pl/s        place   
    Inside Dealer18 p         94        3        -1        1.69   
                                       
                                       
    4:20 »  Cheltenham         points        Result        Pl/s        place   
                                       
                                       
                                       
    4:55 »  Cheltenham         points        Result        Pl/s        place   
    Wester Ross12 v          61        5        -1        -1   
    Mister Matt15          32        2        -1        2.31   
                                       
    5:00 »  Cheltenham         points        Result        Pl/s        place   
                                       
                                       
                                       
    5:35 »  Cheltenham         points        Result        Pl/s        place   
                                       
                                       
                                       
     6:10 »  Cheltenham         points        Result        Pl/s        place   
                                       
                                       
                                       
    6:45 »  Cheltenham         points        Result        Pl/s        place   
    Unowatimeen20         289        6         -1        -1   
                                       
                                       
    7:20 »  Cheltenham         points        Result        Pl/s        place   
                                       
                                       
                                       
    7:50 »  Cheltenham         points        Result        Pl/s        place   
    Special Portrait6 t         31        1         3.75        1.61   
                                       
                                       
    8:20  Cheltenham         points        Result        Pl/s        place   
    Whizzaar15          18        2         -1        1.97   
                                       
                                       
    2:10 »  Cheltenham         points        Result        Pl/s        place   
                                       
                                       
                                       
    2:45 »  Cheltenham         points        Result        Pl/s        place   
                                       
                                       
                                       
    3:20 »  Cheltenham         points        Result        Pl/s        place   
    Heaney         22        3        -1        1.88   
                                       
                                       
    3:55 »  Cheltenham         points        Result        Pl/s        place   
    Sire Collonges         155        1         5.76        1.81   
    Benheir         28        pu         -1        -1   
                                       
    4:30 »  Cheltenham         points        Result        Pl/s        place   
    Court Minstrel         56        1         7.6        2.48   
                                       
                                       
    5:05 »  Cheltenham         points        Result        Pl/s        place   
                                       
                                       
                                       
    5:40  Cheltenham         points        Result        Pl/s        place   
                                       
                                       
                                       
    2:00 »  Cheltenham         points        Result        Pl/s        place   
                                       
                                       
                                       
    2:30 »  Cheltenham         points        Result        Pl/s        place   
                                       
                                       
                                       
    3:05 »  Cheltenham         points        Result        Pl/s        place   
    Hi Note         55        2         -1        1.96   
    Baby Mix         27        3         -1        -1   
                                       
    4:20 »  Cheltenham         points        Result        Pl/s        place   
                                       
                                       
                                       
    3:40 »  Cheltenham         points        Result        Pl/s        place   
                                       
                                       
                                       
    4:55 »  Cheltenham         points        Result        Pl/s        place   
    Peckhamecho         91        3         -1        1.57   
                                       
                                       
     5:30  Cheltenham         points        Result        Pl/s        place   
    Monkey Kingdom         66        2         -1        2.98   
                                       
                                       
    12:15 »  Cheltenham         points        Result        Pl/s        place   
                                       
                                       
                                       
    12:45 »  Cheltenham         points        Result        Pl/s        place   
                                       
                                       
                                       
     1:20 »  Cheltenham         points        Result        Pl/s        place   
                                       
                                       
                                       
     1:55 »  Cheltenham         points        Result        Pl/s        place   
                                       
                                       
                                       
    2:30 »  Cheltenham         points        Result        Pl/s        place   
                                       
                                       
                                       
    3:05 »  Cheltenham         points        Result        Pl/s        place   
                                       
                                       
                                       
     3:40  Cheltenham         points        Result        Pl/s        place   
                                       
                                       
                                       
    12:10 »  Cheltenham         points        Result        Pl/s        place   
                                       
                                       
                                       
     12:45 »  Cheltenham         points        Result        Pl/s        place   
                                       
                                       
                                       
    1:20 »  Cheltenham         points        Result        Pl/s        place   
                                       
                                       
                                       
     1:55 »  Cheltenham         points        Result        Pl/s        place   
    Boyfromnowhere         21        4         -1        -1   
                                       
                                       
    2:30 »  Cheltenham         points        Result        Pl/s        place   
                                       
                                       
                                       
    3:05 »  Cheltenham         points        Result        Pl/s        place   
    Rock On Ruby         28        3         -1        -1   
                                       
                                       
    3:40  Cheltenham         points        Result        Pl/s        place   
                                       
                                       
                                       
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