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Is this the beginning of the end for Betfair...
Is this the beginning of the end for Betfair...
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Replies: 152
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I can't see why Laddies would try and promote a war between two exchange models which if it was successful would surely detract from their own core business ( not FOBTS obviously ). Of course they could be out to put Betfair out of business then close the purple one
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May I ask here:
Do the course bookies use b daq at present? Though thread after thread on this forum goes on about the course bookies using btfr, my understanding is that they actually use the purple. Even before getting the answer, I feel SP is definitely going to change. |
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Yes most use the RCT system which uses the purple place.
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RDT*
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The acquisition of dak by a mjor bookmaker must in reality be for the technology and to have some control over
the profit created by other bookmakers that use dak for laying, the effect on sp wont be that significant and most pro punts are done on BF and not dak due to liquidity problems though this is only a reasoned perspective. |
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SS there's plenty of people that would never even bother trying to place a fixed odds bet at a bookies or on-course. A large number of these will be those that used to stake £100-£200. I think the time is right for L adbrokes to get some of their business. At the moment they don't make a penny from me but soon .....
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wee eck 24 Jan 13 13:17
Delta with respect as I have said before if Laddies play their cards right this exchange has plenty to be concerned about. with respect wee eck, tell me what cards they have to play to get it right ? |
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The difficulty is there is a problem with the exchange model. Too much of what is lost goes to other punters not to the company. Anybody who comes on here moaning about paying 40 or 60% PC has won at least £250k. That's money which a normal bookie would take themselves.
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corbiewood, for a start have lower commission structure a guarantee that a type
of premium charge will never be introduced reopen the forum and seed the main markets a little until natural liquidity takes effect and as importantly as any point I have made have a customer service dept. that listens and does its hardest to help customers. |
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^^^^^ bookies have liability,s exchange is a risk free commissino income for company therefore its all about more liquidity more profit. there will always be winners on an exchange
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If laddies come up with something like this place used to be normal bookies won't be doing much business. They could have most of the exchange business rather than none of it.
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Bookies USED to take risks aspy. Now they are run by accountants which is why they close winning accounts. It's all about profit and the exchange model doesn't make much sense once it grows and goes public.
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Agree Howard.That is how the world works.Adapt or get left behind it is that simple.Too much is made of winners on here.Betfair has taken away the dream and that is what is killing liquidity and the same thing has killed the highstreet firms.People need the dream of becoming a pro punter to be alive so you cannot over charge people who make a living or the ones who arnt will give up chasing the dream.The PC needs to be scrapped.
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There is absolute no way I will ever be using **** again, even if they get rid of their commission charge altogether.
Why ? Call it cutting off my nose to spite my face, but Ladbrokes have closed my accounts 4 times in the past. I'm sure this has happened to many others. So, why would I want to fill their pockets in the future. They didn't want my business, and now I don't want theirs. My **** account is now closed. |
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You can't expect a firm to go on letting more and more people win big time while they provide the platform. And where do you think all the muggs are going to come from ?
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"Whilst the main focus of our digital growth strategy continues to progress well, this bolt on acquisition provides us with an exciting opportunity to grow our share of wallet through the creation of a differentiated and comprehensive sports betting proposition for customers and also supports our drive for improved liability management." (Laddies Chief Exec. Richard Glynn).
What he really means is, if The Purple becomes a significant player, they will have far better control over manipulating the markets. |
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Customer service wont create growth, this is just a nonsense. Your viewing it through the eyes of a punter in at the beginning with betfair, someone who has some sort of perverse bond regardless of financial reward - and your dismayed that the company has put bottom line and margin ahead of your customer ideals.
also the ' natural ' liquidty doesnt exist, its bought in - just like the sand on the palm in Dubai. another myth the 'sharp minds' PR has spun. Everyone needs to wake up and smell the money. |
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Pretty clear Laddies see an opportunity to take advantaged of the number of disgruntled BF punters. I suspect this is maybe the reason why BF are finally making an effort to listen to users re the hated new site. The question for BF is: is it too little too late? Once punters start migrating they will probably never come back, always assuming Laddies get liquidity up, which shouldn´t be a big prob for them.
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Thats just silly WFT,variety is the spice of life.Closing your account imo is cutting off your nose to spite your face.I had my deposit limit set so i couldnt use the site much but i lifted it today after the news and i wonder how many others did the same.I am happy at Betfair but i am not happy being at a dissadvantage to others by having to pay the PC.Its discrimination against winners and im as loyal as the next man but not wheni feel wronged and i hope ther is competition because then it will be up to Betfair to shwo they want my custom because as it is im not sure they do want winners as customers?
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This exchange has nothing to be concerned about imo. The other bookies have plenty to be concerned about. See above for what I think Ladbroke's will do. They bought Purple to boost Ladbroke's, not to boost Purple.
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who knows maybe **** will be bigger than Betfair in 10 yrs or much less. I remember in the late 70s, darts was bigger than snooker, then it flip flopped under Barry hearn, now its flip flopped back and darts is big again.
Same with video. Everyone said Betamax was better than VHS but the latter became the more popular |
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Ram good insight earlier. You don't think laddies want to run the no.1 exchange ?
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Talks with **** began over a year ago but were characterised as “only a discussion about technology supply”. Ladbrokes admitted earlier this month that they had morphed into merger discussions.
The pair already have a commercial relationship, with Ladbrokes using the betting exchange to hedge bets. |
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Profits @ Bf are a fraction of what the bookies are taking. Yes, I'm sure they'd prefer Purple to be Number One but I doubt it is their priority.
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"Thats just silly WFT"
It's a matter of principle. Ladbrokes have been the worst of the "big" bookmakers for many a year when it comes to a) offering a decent price, and b) taking a decent bet. I'm astounded that people think they can do a good job with ****. They're an atrocious company. Don't get suckered in. |
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True enough WFT but Baldy and the rest aren't angels are they ? And now you will get a decent price and a decent bet providing there's low/zero commission and no PC.
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i honestly think 30m is cheap but its 30m wasted along with their 50m last year on improving their online growth. Ladcrooks cannot market or do offers and have no media persona. no matter what they do they need to change their image perception.
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Lads is valued at £1.8 billion - the acquisition is valued at £25 million or 1.4% of its capitalisation. So not significant in financial terms.
BD has probably been losing money hand over fist and even a billionaire will look to cut his losses eventually, especially as the alternative would have been a huge investment to compete with BF, and Desmond obviously didn't fancy his chances.Easier pickings elsewhere in currency trading along with the big Irish players & Joe Lewis. So, what's in it for Lads? Take them at their word and it seems that increased market share is the aim. But is it? They have built their company on a fixed odds model, so they will want to enhance that not cannibalise it. Improved liability management is also mentioned, so having their own exchange will help but all they had to do was look at BF's site if that's what they wanted.More likely, as Ramruma said in an earlier post, Lads SP comes closer to fruition.Their ability to manipulate SP's on an exchange will be much easier than through the on-course market so SP optimisation would be easy. Do they want to shaft BF? Why, how much of a threat now are BF to Lads? In the early days of BF, maybe they saw BF as a threat.But BF's share is stuck at around 7-9% of the market - so not much of a threat. Do they want exchange profits - BF are not making much more than £50-70 million so would they make the investment necessary to take some of that? Can't see them doing that, to be honest. What about overseas? Perhaps they see the exchange model being easier to introuduce than a fixed odds model and in new markets they could go in on BF's coattails when they open things up. The exchanges are a refuge for all the punters that the fixed odds bookies don't want. When you have had accounts closed there is nowhere else to go except here or BD.Do they want these players back? Really? Lads have got an up and running exchange for a fraction of the cost that they would have to put up starting from scratch. This option has been on the table since BF started but initially Big Books were against the very existance of exchanges. Billies still are and are pursuing the courts for increased taxation on exchanges. So who will be affected? Arbers for one. Can you see much opportunity for hedging in Lads shops now whensooner or later every price and liability management will be electronically linked. Opinion players could do better if Lads compete on terms with lower commissions and bot traders will benefit if there is no PC to contend with. There is no brand loyalty attached to BF because of their "squeezing the pips" strategy so with sentiment not coming into it I can only see those who are over the £250k limit switching to BD. Will that help BD to succeed or will it be of more help to BF? Liquidity will be the key issue. For everyone on here, it can only help that a rival with the the sort of clout that Lads has, is in the market. |
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But if only the big winners go purple...... surely there is a problem.
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Now Ladbrokes own an exchange, will they be able to more accurately identify the "shrewdies/insiders" and hedge more effectively by shadowing their activities?
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Ladbrokes are a reprehensible outfit and i would never bet with them or any company owned by them
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Ladbrokes could get access to quicker SiS pictures for in running to promote liquidity on horse racing
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The purple site has been a lame duck, but now with the clout of Lads they could become a threat to betfair. And they should be concerned about it, because now they have a competitor who could become serious.
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will laddies encourage their current user base of presumeably losing gamblers to use the site,if so the sharks would soon be there to eat the fish.at the moment and in the past betduck markets tend to look like a 1970's disco with a couple of bots flashing on and off,without them getting gamblers to use it they have little chance of success imho.
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josh apiafi @joshapiafi
The **** / Lads deal is all to do with one shareholder, D Desmond, **** not worth £30mil and Desmond large Lads shareholder #easyexit |
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Why the hell would they want THEIR losers to lose to other sharks on Betduq ?
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Think B/F concern is crystal clear from the fact this thread remains "open".
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bet daq,£50 min bet.
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Cork, could be good feed back for them, lay of the land etc.
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wee eck, wish that were the case, unfortunately think you'll find that their patrons views have been of no consequence to them for some considerable time now, and is unlikely to change anytime soon
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