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I went racing today for the first time in a long while. Alright, I know that it was a mundane mid-week meeting at Haydock but the atmosphere in the betting ring was reminiscent of a morgue. Where are the layers shouting the odds such as 'Take eleven to eight', 'Nine to four the field'. They have all got their heads behind a partition with their computer logged into the exchanges. Ask for a 'monkey to a pony' and the see the look that you get. Where are the tic-tac men, Michael Cunningham at the top of the stand in Tatts with arms like a windmill relaying odds down to the silver ring with layers shouting 'Michael, Michael' trying to attract his attention. Where are the bookies on the rails yelling 'One Thousand Pounds to One Eighty I have laid, Two Thousand Pounds to Three Sixty I have laid.' Where are the bookies 'men' running round the ring taking prices that are a little over the odds, knocking over pitches in the mad scramble. Where are the punters betting like men, taking One Thousand Pounds to Seventy and other fractions ? To be blunt, where are the punters ? Fivers here, Tenners there at odds such as 15-4 (what kind of a price is that ?) Where are the layers taking a chance and offering odds based on their opinion rather than what the exchanges are saying ? All you have is a long line of bookmakers all displaying the same electronic odds.
If this is the norm for the betting ring at a modern day race track then all I can say is 'I won't be back in a hurry'.
If this is the norm for the betting ring at a modern day race track then all I can say is 'I won't be back in a hurry'.
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Replies: 91
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Betfair has destroyed on course bookmaking and the rings. Nothing else.
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Agree. It's only at point-to-points where you now have a proper betting ring instead of BF copiers.
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everyone can be a bookmaker now
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Betting to 160%, or 180%, wiz?
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PAULBU,I have been going to a few Northern meetings recently and yes it is true
the ring has no atmosphere whatsoever. |
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Joking aside, I was at Sedgefield the other week and no bookies were bothering to shout the odds anymore, every price virtually the same. The game is in a feeble state.
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I think blaming betfair is harsh, lets put in perspective,
the internet has changed everything , not betfair, its the internet , the invention of the internet has changed everything not befairs fault even dating people dont meet out anymore all online dating, its just the internet in general, even in the supermarket check out chick is now her in aus starting to be automated with stupid software its the internet is the problem will become the humans undoing to |
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when was the last time you heard this as the ate john joyce would say "its all right lads your all on"
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Risk taking characters have been replaced by skimming automatons. Heaven forbid they should have a loser. Betfair is god and all come to worship.
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ronnie, the late great John Joyce ably aided and abetted by Johnny Ridley snr what a duo
Old man Ridley a gentleman if ever there was one, no matter how bad the results were never ran out of readies he must have tens and tens of thousands of pounds in those huge pockets of his overcoat, Joe Douglas might have been a bit red in the face but my goodness he would lay a bet, happy days. |
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BB
I know this has been brought up numerous times on here about the %'s at the points but where do you go pointing?Fair enough we do open to crazy high margins on the Maidens but at the off we are usually down to 120/130 on these races.I don't think I would have worked to 140 any race last year even with Maiden races with plenty of runners & the bank holday crowds.I certainly worked on plenty of races where they bet overbroke. |
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Just thinking of the old days at Sedgefield, the four top picks were Douglas, Joyce, Ridley senior and Reg Boyle I daren’t think of how much you could have got on with them four.
A serious question wee eck how much do you think you would get on now at a gaff meeting with the books if betfair was down, thinking of sedgy some other great layers were Tom James, Pat Whelan, Bob Jacobs and Brian Trewitt. Great days sadly gone for ever. |
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my first thought on paulbu's "i have laid" was john joyce a true gentleman
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ronnie if you were a face perhaps a couple of grand with the big firms, on the
boards peanuts, 75% of them imo would not have the slightest idea how to price up and as regards standing one, those days are history. Truly the game has gone. |
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wee eck
Sorry forgot about your old pal Alec Lewis, do you know how his son is doing at the dogs. Funny enough im off to the dogs at Sunderland tomorrow with staff and customers from Corals, never been to the dogs since Cleveland park shut so i must be old now as its been shut well over 20 years if not 30. They were happy days, train from darlo to thornaby walk to Stockton racecourse for a good day on the horses then a quick walk down to the dogs, many times had a long walk back with just the return train ticket in my pocket. |
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allpoints, have to confess I don't go pointing, but I do buy and use the point form book (for hunters and horses switched to pro yards) and some of the percentages look horrendous!
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Alec, was a character when he bet at Brough after every race he would be at the bar downing a large
whisky amazingly on a 12 race card he would virtually drink a whole bottle never seemed to affect him betting though. Have not seen Paul for years he was a nice quite lad. |
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wee eck
just before i finaly get to bed, needed a couple of new suits so went to the Toon with her indoors a few weeks ago, sat by the quayside having a few bevys and a bite to eat and lost count of the Jim Adams wagons going by how's he doing i havent seen him for years, very friendly chap always spoke at the races. regards and good night Ronnie |
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apparently business today at haydock was useless.
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ronnie, Jimmy a friend of mine has had a battle with the big c for a year or
two is still hanging in a great man with a super family, good night to you. |
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PAULBU,DID U ACTUALLY GO TO HAYDOCK TODAY(THURS),BECAUSE IF U DID U WOULD HAVE SEEN AND HEARD A BOOKMAKER GOING"BIGGER THAN THE MACHINE"EVERY FAV,EVERY RACE(I WILL BE THERE FRIDAY AS WELL)AS FOR ATMOSPHERE FORGET IT,THE RINGS ARE TOTALLY DEVOID OF ANY CHARACTERS,WITH THE VAST MAJORITY OF ONCOURSE BOOKMAKERS NOW COMMISSION AGENTS AND GOVERNED BY THE EVER WEAKENING BETFAIR,BUT IF U LOOK AND LISTEN U WILL STILL FIND BOOKMAKERS THAT WILL STAND EM AND LAY A BET.HAVE TO SAY THAT THE BUSINESS AT HAYDOCK ON A BEAUTIFUL SUMMERS DAY WAS EVEN WORSE THAN YORK TATTS,WITH THE RAILS FAIRING NO BETTER,CAN ONLY GUESS WHAT IT WILL BE LIKE IN WINTER.
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oncourse punters never had it so good just more choice with internet and racing channels still plenty of books who will lay good size bet attendances holding up plenty of punters wanting pounds on whos living in the past
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paul, its difficult to dismiss exchanges, but sat at home last Saturday watching 60 bookmakers operate on-course Sandown being led by the machine, most races 3 mins before the off the combined total traded on both exchanges was less than £100K.
Lingfield thursday, saw Urban Space scratch its way to post, screamed 11/4 for 2 mins could have laid 3.55, took a score give up and laid the machine. sp 9/4 not sure modern day punters care about value. |
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I think Wasnot and Factsmachine have got it right: btfr is largely the culprit here. Messed the game right up, imo.
OK, there is a bad recession and folk ain't got much spare cash, anfd, yes, the Internet has changed many things ( not all for the better, btw), but the plain fact is that horseracing, like dog racing before it, is becoming less and less popular for punters. I don't believe we can blame the recession and the Internet entirely, as, from the bit I saw of it, the Olympics seemed to easily overcome these negatives and proved to be a (surprising to me)huge success. On the other hand, many of us on here are old bggrs who like to reminisce about the characters of the past. We always feel that our time was the best ever. However, in the case of pubs, horseracing, dogracing, and general craic at work, I think we were a lot better off in the "old days". Maybe that's just the way it seemed. We were younger then. Certainly, today's lifestyle seems a grim way of going on, with almost every bggr you meet looking as miserable as fk. This despite the fact that modern technology has lightened the burden for so many. Frankly, I'm not sorry that I won't have to put up with it for much longer.  |
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We're doomed!
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WHAT WERE THE OVER ROUNDS IN THE GOOD OLD DAYS GOOD OLD DAYS FOR THE BOOKS MAYBE
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good post sean,we all remember the past fondly,i have spent a lot of time in the betting rings since the 70's and were there that many characters really? plenty of miserable sods as well imo and trust me the so called legends of the ring like joyce,steele etc wouldn't have fared any better against the internet than anybody else does today.they were just lucky enough to be around when they were and made the most of it,not much opposition and held a firm grip of what went on in the ring,anyone trying to go 1/6 etc would have been kicked out,anyone who tried to shake up the status quo was soon sent packing.
i take paulbu's point about the interaction with tic-tac's taking away some atmosphere but michael cunningham packed in 2 years ago because of lack of business due to the internet,he also states it's a long time since he went racing,perhaps that has something to do with the modern technology now available to everyone? its called progress apparently. |
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Poor old oncourse Bookies dead men walking, good days have long gone time to pack it in boys..not enough mugs to go around.
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Maxed I can well remember the days when the poor sods betting in the back line were
overbroke race after race, it was always the same front line guys who had longevity had chances those scratchers in the rear scratched, is, as was, always will be. |
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We're doomed, doomed, i tell you!
How long will it be, before there are no racecourse bookmakers? 10 years? 15 years? 20 years? 25 years? What do you think? |
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With the advent of Lotteries, scratchcards, slots and suchforth there is far less mug money sloshing around the sport
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Thenorfolk, I dont know much about modern day bookies but the old timers
were a most resilient lot and would rise against adversity, problem for bookies could be the new government policy of a building free for all. 1st course to go Ayr swiftly followed by Redcar and then the domino effect will be in operation, in 20 years time might only be a dozen courses operating bookies pitches will be worth double dyed fortunes. |
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factmachine, I never saw you or heard you at Haydock yesterday, you must try and shout a bit louder. I had a chat with the guys with Tatts layer Roy Huddlestone just before the last race and they agreed with everything that I posted above. They even joked that out of all the layers there yesterday, there would probably be no more than three who would know how to tic-tac. One question, did anybody lay 3-1 about Set The Trend ?
barry dennis I'm not knocking the way that on-course layers operate from a business viewpoint, it's their business and they operate in a way which is best for them, but it has killed the thrill of the betting jungle 'stone dead'. ronnie rails Yeah, those summer evening meetings at Stockton were a great night out. Train from Bank Top to Thornaby, ten minute walk to the track. Train back to Darlo in time for a couple of pints in the County. |
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BB
Thanks for repling but to be honest the SP's in the point reporting are nearly all way out.Half the time they don't even have the correct fav.This isn't the fault of anyone only the fact that the reporters are expected to do too much.They have to get the decs,look at them in the paddock,a quick glance at the betting ring then get into a position to watch the race.During the race they write down their comments.After the race they have of course to have a chat with the winning connections if they can & also report on any stewards etc.Some of the good reporters do come after racing & get the SP's then but very rarely do they get market moves etc.This is usually all done by one person,doing their best but unfortunately it's too much for anyone to do on their own. |
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Sean,
You're observations are spot on, my two sons keep telling me how lucky I am. They point out that they will be paying for my pension when I'm 65 by working into their 70's. Only work available for them currently is either part time or temporary contracts where they can be called in to work 2-3 days a week. My sons enjoy a day at the races, but, the only time they go now is when I'm paying. Entrance to the premier enclosure at Newcastle and drinks / meal before hand costs me £100+ before we have a bet. I'll not start on Newcastle racecourse again.  |
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PAULBU
What you say about the tic tac wont be far wrong.Quite often when having my pick as to where I stand I'll go & have a look at where a particular pitch is & whose standing there.Instead of walking back to the busy (if the right ones on)I'll just tic tac it to him.He knows what I'm saying but I don't think many of those standing around understand.The son & I still use it quite a bit when pointing. |
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paulbu,it's joe huddlestone btw,lol.
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ribero, do you keep any field money or are you at the earn on the exchanges?
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Ribero1
At least I got the surname right, he was no 1 pitch next to the rails. |