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Frankel, a champion but not the greatest of all time until he embraces the ultimate challenge.
Frankel, a champion but not the greatest of all time until he embraces the ultimate challenge.
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You are knocking SYT Ima but, Frankel apart, he was the best we had over here. What does that say about our horses?
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Versatility is a definite requirement for a horse to be pronounced the greatest European racehorse ever. Dancing Brave will still have the upper hand when comparisons are made between his Guineas, Derby might have been and brilliant Arc win. Also Sea Bird on similar lines.
It is simple, Frankel has always stayed a trip. He is a freak which is why people cannot accept he has a sprinters speed but can stay middle distances. The way he has been ridden has dictated the way the horse has been campaigned. Far from letting the horse tell Henry where to go next it has always been Henry deciding on how he was ridden and therefore where he wanted him to go next. The tactics in the Guineas was to burn off the field so obviously he was going to show hissprinters speed. The Royal Lodge over a mile he was settled until the jockey, not the horse, decided to go for home. He was bouncing on slow ground at the finishing post and could have carried on going further clear there is very little doubt about that. Henry knew by virtue of the Guineas tactics where he wanted to go and that was to keep him to the mile afterwards. Frankel is a freak and should go for the Arc to claim the title European greatest of all time from the likes of Sea Bird and Dancing Brave. Anything less is a tragic waste of the horses versatility of which we are unlikely to get the chance of seeing in such abundance ever again. |
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Megsy resorting to bluster because he has no answer.Same old.
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Message to all aussies,we have the best horse in the world,you don't.Take it well.
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brigust1
Date Joined: 07 Dec 01 Add contact | Send message When: 30 Aug 12 23:02 Joined: Date Joined: 07 Dec 01 | Topic/replies: 4,458 | Blogger: brigust1's blog You are knocking SYT Ima but, Frankel apart, he was the best we had over here. What does that say about our horses? the most honest assessment i have read on here by a brit. |
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Treebeard = MAX
behave yourself MAX  |
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Your total obsession with max makes me doubt your sexuality.
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He still seems to have alot to say but as per usual nothing of any substance.
SOunds a bit like a chimp jumping into a hot bath. |
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hmm, i do recall vintage crop, rated the best stayer in the world at the time and he won a melbourne cup and wasnt even top weight, only fools talk about things they dont know shyt about, i suggest you read a book on handicapping conditions for the melbourne cup.
and can anyone tell me the last visiting English horse to win the melbourne cup? you wont find it on racing post let me see, aussies, kiwis,irish, french, even a japanese visitor has won it what does that mean?  |
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MAX...seriously mate, it must frustrate you pretending
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How many were second by a short head? It would if i had anything to hide.i don't.
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megsy
AHH AHH AHHHCHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO !!!!!!!!!! excuse me, damn bullshyt im ellergic too Crazy someone sure hasnt a clue how much bullshyt they are Oh you're definitely right about that megsy but your lack of self awareness means you don't have a clue why!  It's funny how you keep saying it's bullsh1t but never specifically what part is or how exactly it is and no doubt you will just repeat it again next post knowing you can convince your own delusion mind, whereas everyone else can see that's all you have left as you've nothing better to come back with and have adjudged that to be marginally better than saying nothing or admitting as much. Oh and what's "ellergic" is that line an online allergy or something?  brigust1 You are knocking SYT Ima but, Frankel apart, he was the best we had over here. What does that say about our horses? I'm not knocking SYT brigust1 as I've always said think he's a decent horse but no superstar like some of the Aussies on here tried to have us believe but my point was Yeats and Septimus were no superstars either but were still given more weight in the Melbourne Cup than SYT and a 3 times Melbourne Cup winner. As far as SYT and our horses goes, 10f is a bit of a hybrid distance where for non specialist it would mean milers stepping up 2f and 12f horses stepping down by the same distance. In the PoW last year SYT was beaten, in the Eclipse he beat two 12f horses in Workforce and Snow Fairy and SF reversed the form at 12f, in the Champion Stakes he was beaten again, albeit not by an English horse but probably would have been had Snow Fairy had a clearer run and in the PoW this year he was all out to beat a horse that has won 3 from 8 and is a Gr2/3 horse at best and another running at the trip and class for the first time out of handicap company that didn't get the best of runs and would probably beat SYT later in the season were they to have raced again, seeing as Farhh looks to have improved each time it has run. SYT managed to miss clashing with Danedream, Frankel, Nathaniel and Sea Moon this season and Coolmore obviously had to protect their investment and do a bit of reputation repairing so weren't really likely to put any of their other better ones up against him either. |
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Megsy,let me get this straight.You think i am a poster called Max,who from what i have learned is banned everytime he or she shows their face on here.That means that you want me banned,yes?
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AHH AHH AHHHCHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO !!!!!!!!!!
excuse me, damn bullshyt im ellergic too, someone walked in the door MAX nobody should get banned, but why play the fool, you are who you are MAX |
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You are wrong,get over it.Your boyfriend isn't coming back.
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Thought the bath water would have cooled by now.
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He has a limited intellect,that's why he never answers a question.He has no answers.
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SYT managed to miss clashing with Danedream, Frankel, Nathaniel and Sea Moon this season and Coolmore obviously had to protect their investment and do a bit of reputation repairing so weren't really likely to put any of their other better ones up against him either.
beat nathaniel 3 lens in the Qipco Champion Stakes, raced and won the prince of wales stakes day before Frankel raced for nearly 100,000 pounds less. sea moon, been running in 12 furlong races and raced 4 days after SYT 's last raced. seeing the latter 2 were racing just after SYT, does that mean they avoided SYT? yes you do talk shyt. AHH AHH AHHHCHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO !!!!!!!!!! excuse me |
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MAX..its ok, GT is on to you, enjoy your life.
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GT,why would he care about me,i don't know the man or woman.
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I think you need to stay a big fish in your little pond,go home.
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So because you beat a horse once that means you will beat him again or that some horses don't improve with age? Oh and Frankel raced on the 19th, the opening day of Royal Ascot, SYT ran on the 20th so now who's talking sh1t?.......Maybe you should have checked on Wiki or the Racing Post site before spouting off your usual b0ll0cks and then have the front to try to mock me for checking the facts first.
Sea Moon is also a winner at 10f, just as SYT has also run at 12f but once again mesgy you make up your own point just so as you could counter it but I wasn't claiming any horse avoided any other horse, just stating what happens to be a fact that SYT for whatever reason didn't face any of those other runners and so had a fairly easy time and free run at this season's PoW, and had any of Danedream, Frankel, Nathaniel and Sea Moon met that same field then you would think they would be up to beating Carlton House and the rest of them too. As for Vintage Crop supposedly being the best stayer in the world at the time he won the Melbourne Cup, this would be the same Vintage Crop that finished 6th in the Ascot Gold Cup the same season but because he won your handicap race, that obviously makes him the best stayer in Aussie eyes. Oh and he got 8-10 in the MC that year and would have been near the top weight anyway but this was before the Aussie horses were regularly getting beaten by the overseas horses but the handicapper didn't take any chances with the likes of Yeats and Septimus after that. Oh and yes, no English trained horses have won the MC but the likes of the failed hurdler Purple Moon and Bauer have been close up 2nds and would fall out of the back of the telly in a Gr1 race over here and we've seen Red Cadeaux well beaten at group 1, 2 and 3 level here since his photo finish 2nd in the MC........and not really much point saying that Aussie horses have won the MC when for years they were just about the only runners in it but if NZ, Irish, French and Japanese horses have won the race then considering some of the international runners have only started going over relatively recently, that just goes to show how poor your horses must be. By the way, how many Aussies horses have won the July Cup? |
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and not really much point saying that Aussie horses have won the MC when for years they were just about the only runners in it but if [b]NZ, Irish, French and Japanese horses have won the race then considering some of the international runners have only started going over relatively recently, that just goes to show how poor your horses must be[/b]
now a bit of education for you, kiwis are practically in the race every year since its infancy that just goes to show how poor your horses must be yes it does show how poorly your horses ( english )are, cant even win the race Oh and yes, no English trained horses have won the MC but the likes of the failed hurdler Purple Moon and Bauer have been close up 2nds and would fall out of the back of the telly in a Gr1 race over here didnt Septimus run a distant 21 lens behind Bauer? yes you know a lot about handicaps, how its an even playing field....NOT in your eyes!!! WAIT A SEC!!! AHH AHH AHHHCHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO !!!!!!!!!! excuse me, IM OUTTA HERE |
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Now a bit of education for you megsy, "just about" the only runners in it isn't the same as "the only" runners in it and unless the NZ runners made up half the field every year, then the Aussie horses would be in by far the majority and running in their home country and so as pointless as saying English horses have won the Epsom Derby, otherwise know as the Derby (pronounced thee for emphasis, it's OK, I knew you would be struggling).....although I appreciate an extra word here or there overtaxed your ability to retain information.
The travelling must have taken a massive amount out of the NZ horses too by the way and again although no English horses have won the MC, Jeune won it in November 1994 carrying 8-13 when last seen here the season before racing in England for Geoff Wragg when a 9th of 10 and beaten 19L in a proper Gr1 like the King George when carrying 9-7 and at levels bar the female allowance and WFA. Oh and if you are going to ask a question, it helps to be a bit more specific and/or include all of the information so that the person you are asking knows what they are supposed to be answering. Now assuming you are asking didn't Septimus finished 21L behind the winner in his MC compared to Bauer practically (try to retain that key word now) winning it, then yes that is the case but then as I've already said (those damn information retention problems eh megsy?) Septimus had 9-3 and Bauer had 8-3 so you aren't exactly comparing like with like. And then YOU say: yes you know a lot about handicaps, how its an even playing field....NOT in your eyes!!! |
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Now you are really embarrassing yourself Ima with your lack of knowledge, Purple Moon was btn narrowly in a Melbourne Cup and the the Hong Kong Vase Group 1 and the Dubai Sheema Classic Group 1 and if he has any luck in the last two mentioned races he wins as was a certainty btn in the Sheema Classic in Dubai prior to that he won your much vaunted Ebor hardly a failed hrudler.
Makybe Diva had to set an all time weight carrying record for a mare, let alone a mare of her age in the Cup lumping 58kg a staggering weight for a mare over that trip in the great race and was equal top weight with 4 time Irish St Leger winner Vinnie Roe whose international rating ensured he would carry that sort of weight. Now either you stand by your ratings system or you don't, you can't have it both ways, that weight of 58kg was an increase of 2.5kg on her win the previous year over Vinnie Roe who was beaten 1.3 lengths by her on that occasion and top of all of this she was asked to do this as 7yo mare which is unprecedented, so to say she was in light is laughable. The VRC handicapper Greg Carpenter is regarded as not only the best in Australia (is renowned for his encyclopediac knowledge of form and history and ability to fairly weight horses from diverse formlines all over the world for both Cups) and is regarded as one of the best handicappers in the world. So You Think when weights were released had won one Group 1 at that stage as a spring 3yo the Cox Plate and had never won beyond 2000m or even raced beyond that distance and he was asked to carry 56kg just 1kg less than Shocking the previous years Melbourne Cup winner and So You Think found that task beyond him, so you again you have completely embarrasssed yourself with your ignorance and lack of racing knowledge. |
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ima_mazed66
Date Joined: 12 Oct 09 Add contact | Send message When: 31 Aug 12 01:53 Joined: Date Joined: 12 Oct 09 | Topic/replies: 3,641 | Blogger: ima_mazed66's blog The travelling must have taken a massive amount out of the NZ horses too by the way PLEASEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE, quit now, you are only looking a complete utter idiot education for you , 42 i repeat 42 times new zealand has won the melbourne cup !!!!!!!!!!!and Septimus had 9-3 and Bauer had 8-3 so you aren't exactly comparing like with like. PSSSST, ITS A FCUKING HANDICAP, WHAT HAVENT YOU LEARNT?, WEIGHT GIVEN, GIVES EVERY HORSE A CHANCE !!! I SUGGEST YOU LISTEN TO LETS ELOPE, YOU MIGHT LEARN A THING OR 2 WAIT A SEC!!! AHH AHH AHHHCHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO !!!!!!!!!! excuse me, IM OUTTA HERE |
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and jeune was a late developer, just like his breed, came to australia in search of hard tracks which australia had, trained by a master C J Hayes.
again you show your true knoweledge of racing.....fact !!!!, racing post and The Wikipedia dont give you every answer ima_mazed66, it actually bites you on the asre constantly |
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Ima I'm not talking UP So You Think. I think at best he is just above average. The famous Cox Plate he won he beat Zipping (form confirmed in MC) and Zipping is 9 year old who has been beaten twice as many times as he has won.
Since arriving in the UK he has been beaten Carlton House (Group 3 horse), Famous Name (Group 3 horse), Snow Fairy (an average Group 1 horse), Workforce ( never recovered from injury and almost last in the Arc), Campanologist and Bob Le Beau. He was long odds on for most of theseraces such was the lack of strength in the opposition. He has been beaten almost as many times as he has won. His Arc form is as good as he is and that is 5 lengths behind a German filly who ran 11 times before she won a Group 1. He is of Group 1 quality only in a very average year. |
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Wednesday, 20 June 2012: Racing Victoria's chief handicapper Greg Carpenter believes Frankel's amazing win at Royal Ascot ranks it above some of Australia's greatest racehorses.
http://www.racingandsports.com.au/sports/rsNewsArt.asp?NID=253241&story=Frankel_best_mile_racer_ever:_Greg_Carpenter [b]Caviar can't beat Frankel on rankings[/b] Number one: Frankel. DESPITE heavy criticism from Peter Moody regarding the widening gap between unbeaten British colt Frankel and champion sprinter Black Caviar following the release of the latest round of World Thoroughbred Rankings, it is highly unlikely that the brilliant mare will wrest the title of the world's best horse from Frankel any time soon. Greg Carpenter, Racing Victoria's general manager of Racing and Australia's representative on the international handicapping panel, said it was highly unlikely that a Royal Ascot win would be enough for Black Caviar to knock Frankel from his throne. Most of the 10 active members of the International Handicapping Panel recommended that Frankel receive a career-high mark of 138 following his first-up win in the Lockinge Stakes in late May, but Carpenter believed that a conservative approach was more appropriate when it came to assessing Britain's best racehorse. "My view was that we should wait and see how the season unfolds to determine exactly if Frankel has a better season this than last," he said. "Once the English and European handicappers see her first hand and understand and taste her greatness, we might get her back to the 132 of last year, or higher." Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/sport/horseracing/caviar-cant-beat-frankel-on-rankings-20120612-20850.html#ixzz257Ff7D88 http://www.theage.com.au/sport/horseracing/caviar-cant-beat-frankel-on-rankings-20120612-20850.html You're right - knows his stuff does Greg  |
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Just thought i'd say again - Australia's representative on the international handicapping panel, just in case any Aussies thought the ratings were done by Pomms.........
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LOL megsy, you really are as thick as sh1t aren't you? Do me a favour and hold your hand out flat above your head hand then move if back and forth whilst making a whooshing sound, as cleary so much in life just whizzes right over your (empty) head.
Me - The travelling must have taken a massive amount out of the NZ horses too by the way Thick as fcuk megsy - PLEASEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE, quit now, you are only looking a complete utter idiot education for you , 42 i repeat 42 times new zealand has won the melbourne cup !!!!!!!!!!!You total fcuking mug, you obviously think irony is a pill you take in the morning with your victims and whatever other medication you are clearly on. You're even slower than some of your horses ffs and when you listed the countries' horses that had won the Melbourne Cup, you did so by beginning with Australia and NZ. So I then say it's a bit pointless saying Aussie horses have won it as they are just about the only others in it, being fully aware NZ horses have run in and won it, which was why I used the expression "just about" and that's still only 2 countries anyway that have made up the bulk of runners. I then sarcastically pointed out the travelling must really have taken it's toll on the NZ horses anyway (by way of saying it was no big deal for them to hop across the water) but you being as thick as sh1t couldn't even work that out. Saying Aussie and NZ horses have won the Melbourne Cup has about a much effect as saying English and Irish horses have won the Epsom Derby. Then if some Aussie said he obviously expected English horses to have won it and that it must really take it's toll on the Irish horses travelling over, I think I and anyone else not as thick as sh1t would pick up on the fact that they were taking the p1ss......but that was obviously beyond your capabilities. Oh and you have to laugh, as being called an idiot by you is like being call a fat **** by John McCririck!!!! Yes I'm fully aware your Gr1 is laughably a handicap and some horses will have to give weight to others but giving away a stone to a horse you would in top races meet on level terms is still clearly going to have an effect on a horse, yet that is obviously beyond your comprehension to get that. A horse like Land 'n Stars only ever got a long distance view of Yeats's @rse whenever they met on levels in our group level cup races and was beaten 10½L by Yeats in the Goodwood Cup, yet beat him 2 necks when reversing teh form after getting almost a stone off of him in the MC. Even one of our also rans like Jardine's Lookout that was more often than not beaten out of sight at levels in our cup races finished 3rd in your MC handicap and even then still had to give 10lbs to Makybe Diva and was still only beaten 4¼L and she's supposed to be one of your all-time greats! Oh and yes I looked up some of the finer details such as the weight carried and so on using the Racing Post website but I do that so as I have my facts right and not just spouted off any old b0ll0cks (maybe that sounds familiar?) but if you think I went through every MC in history to find that then you really are as thick as **** (was it ever in doubt?) and I obviously had the knowledge of those horses/races from memory. Anyway, on to the grown up stuff, I wasn't suggesting you were talking up SYT brigust1, I was just saying that I wasn't talking him down and have said previously and we seem to agree that he was decent, but just far from the superstar some of these Aussies claimed him to be and they even disowned him for a while when he was regularly getting beaten but then claimed him back again when he won another p1ss poor Gr1 from averages horses like the ones you mentioned. |
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I think that would be spot on, Ima. Spot on.
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What a surprise, not, that connections again avoid genuine top class opponents by bypassing the Arc.
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frankel doesn't avoid top class opponents.
top class opponents avoid frankel. |
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Can we have anyone that has laid Frankel in the Arc own up please.
To argue Champion Stakes instead of Arc is insane. |
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I did! and the derby & the eclipse.
Clear he wasnt going to any of em. |
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Anyone who questions that Maybe Diva's handicap marks weren't "lenient" needs locking up.
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Lets Elope
What a surprise, not, that connections again avoid genuine top class opponents by bypassing the Arc. They can always take him on at Ascot if any other connections feel he has a weakness and that his own connections are running scared. You're both right and wrong in your comments though as yes, it's no surprise they haven't tried 12f for the first time in probably the most competitive 12f race in Europe if not the world against proven 12f horses, but you're wrong about the avoiding top class opponents as he's already beaten those previously and months ago the stated plan was Lockinge, Queen Anne, Sussex, Juddmonte and Champion Stakes and so everyone has known his targets and were and still are free to take him on if they choose to. You bitter Aussies must really still be hurting so much about how your so called superstars have been knocked off their perch. |
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one of the great milers of all time..most certainly
If he wins well at Ascot possibly one of the all time great 10f horses.. ....but only this side of the Atlantic...America where the 10f horse is king, will not have it, not a chance well unless he turns up for Breeders Cup Classic and convinces them of course  But methinks his connections would rather have the reputation of being the greatest of all time rather than actually prove it Sea Bird still has his crown at middle distances If Frankel's connections dont think he will stay 1m 4f...then neither do I A very special horse all the same  |
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best in the world..last two years imo
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