There is currently 1 person viewing this thread.
These 760 comments are related to the topic:
Mellish & Hislop. I am not blind, thank you.
Mellish & Hislop. I am not blind, thank you.
sort by:
Show
per page
Replies: 760
|
By:
Keep watching the first maiden win when he beat Nathaniel,settled well and won on the bit it was a mile on softish ground,he looked the Derby and Arc horse on that one run(and even more so with Hindsight).
|
|
By:
And then you get comments like the one about the Arc and completely banal comments from HipPriest and you realise you are actually in the wrong place
Feel free to leave Brigust - please. Soft Pawn makes some excellent points. The reason you get tetchy and abusive is because they directly undermine and lay bare your 'theories'. Why don't you go and pleasure yourself over a picture of your beloved Brigadier? |
|
By:
Give me a picture of Harbinger!
  |
|
By:
|
|
By:
There was a time when you could come onto this forum and get some decent information and have a reasonable debate without rancour or insult but slowly it has become infested with the type of poster I would rather not bother my time with. It is insulting and sometimes upsetting when you are abused by someone you don't know, have no way of knowing and who hides behind their anonimity. It shouldn't be necessary to defend yourself on a forum designed to attract right minded people with a love of horse racing and an intention of making money from gambling. The number of threads I have created in 11 years you could count on one hand because that is the way I am. The number of threads I respond to are also very few and only those I have both an interest in and think I can bring something to the table. Sadly those threads are disappearing fast in a mass of silly rubbish.
So I think it is time I called it a day. The best of luck to you all. There was a time when you could come onto this forum and get some decent information and have a reasonable debate without rancour or insult but slowly it has become infested with the type of poster I would rather not bother my time with. It is insult |
|
By:
Agree Brigust1.
|
|
By:
I thought you had gone?
be careful not to soil Joe Mercer |
|
By:
hipPriest, u miss the point. i will make this quick because im banging my head against a brick wall.
frankel is obv a champion, hes unbeaten. the point is, he is measured by the horses that have gone before him, they all followed the same course, dayjur was a great horse but he was just a sprinter, if he was more stoutly bred (like frankel) he'd have gone up in trip. i mean your points regarding the other horses are not only irrelevant but inaccurate, some of them are jumpers for a start, they have no business in this debate. we are talking about a horse out of Galileo here who has shown a certain level of ability and his trainer is reluctant to step him up out of fear he will get beaten. as for secretariat, you are lazy and young if u dont know the variety of distances he won over, please do a little bit of homework if u are gonna speak to me as i don't want to waste my time, cheers. |
|
By:
Point taken. You believe that Dayjur and Shergar cannot be considered champions.
Cheers. |
|
By:
I have viewed this thread with interest,i haven't made a contribution to it because Brigust has covered every point quite thoroughly imo.
FWIW i believe that Frankel has to go down as a great miler,he can only beat whats put in front of him which hasn't been much admittedly but he has beat them easily. Can he be concidered the greatest ever on the back of what he has achieved? no of course not.....not his fault but an inescapable fact. As for the debate about whether he should step up in trip well i'd say you would have to respect Henry Cecil's opinion for if he did'nt have a major doubt in his mind about whether the horse whould stay 10f he would have ran him over it before now,Henry has never been slow in stepping horses up, think of any of his best horses down the years 90% of them have been middle distance horses.....in fact has he ever had a sprinter? It's intresting to think how other trainers would have campaigned the horse......C |
|
By:
ok hip, whatever u say. just before i go can u wrote this earlier, can u explain it to me
'Firstly Buses tells us that it is essential for a champion to show versatility. That's good because now I can remove Secretariat....' can i ask why u would remove Secretariat? |
|
By:
dirt horse end of
|
|
By:
we are talking about a horse out of Galileo here who has shown a certain level of ability and his trainer is reluctant to step him up out of fear he will get beaten.
a blind pig on a galloping giraffe knows that the reason Frankel hasnt been stepped up in trip before now is because for much of his career he has been headstrong, this trait not helped by the positive rides he received in both the Guineas and St James Palace....happily, he seems to settle better now and should be at home stepped up in trip as a result |
|
By:
Oh dear. The pedant's last refuge - focusing on one tiny debatable fact.
Secretariat may not be the best example of my point but it is not the worst.99 percent of people view Secretariat's greatness and reputation through his exploits in the Triple Crown. Your view would be that because those races were all middle distance races that sequence alone does not in itself equate to a champion performance. You don't pick on my other choices I notice - I wonder why? Your central thesis is that a horse cannot be hailed a champion unless it has competed over a range of distances. That is complete and utter nonsense from which you are unable to back track. And it applies equally to jumpers (probably even more so hence your haste to exclude them from consideration as it further undermines your flaky position). |
|
By:
I have just read the last three pages of this thread, and I'm begging
brigust to come back, and remove his views on this thread too. I don't feel such a c00nt after all. Ilwab, didn't we meet on the SNA thread many moons, weren't you proclaiming him a true champion, if memory serves. It seems your inability to understand even the basics, still remains. (i have watered that down, from totally clueless, as I don't want to lose you from the forum in the vein as brigust disappeared). It would suggest nothing would compete with frankel from 6f to a mile 2f. If that is not obvious to you well I don't know what to suggest. 1mile 4? |
|
By:
Hip youre points are funny, like they make me laugh
its incredible actually looking at the knowledge and dtail in brigusts posts and then your retorts, like its like comparing sea the stars with some dog that runs round southwell, different parish of depth and understanding. 99% of the entire racing word recognise that yeats was a great horse but he'll never be mentioned in the same league as nijinsky , sts, dancing brave for the fact that they all won championship races, he didnt! its not difficult. in Europe the greatest horses over the years all ran over middle distances, just at the the usual list of greats that is pawned around on this forum every week, nijinsky, sea bird, mill reef. we are talking about flat horses here, NOT jumpers. my arguments are always solid. you talk about usain bolt when justifying why frankel is a champion...nuff said! |
|
By:
motley01
25 Jul 12 11:40 Joined: 19 Jun 10 | Topic/replies: 734 | Blogger: motley01's blog I have just read the last three pages of this thread, and I'm begging brigust to come back, and remove his views on this thread too. I don't feel such a c00nt after all. Ilwab, didn't we meet on the SNA thread many moons, weren't you proclaiming him a true champion, if memory serves. It seems your inability to understand even the basics, still remains. (i have watered that down, from totally clueless, as I don't want to lose you from the forum in the vein as brigust disappeared). It would suggest nothing would compete with frankel from 6f to a mile 2f. If that is not obvious to you well I don't know what to suggest. 1mile 4? i would like to see that post! |
|
By:
its incredible actually looking at the knowledge and dtail in brigusts posts
my arguments are always solid. |
|
By:
i dont have the patience to correct spelling!
 i dont always agree with brigust either but his knowledge is undeniable, it doesnt mean hes a good punter but when it comes to forming points in an argument, HipPriest is so far out of his depth , its like a man talking to a child! HipPriests justifications rely ENTIRELY on the achievements of other horses and not on what frankel has done. he used usain bolt to justify frankels campaign must be a forum first! then he talks about dayjur and yeats and moscow flyer its embarrassing! |
|
By:
I fear Buses you have misjudged our much missed friend Brigust. read the posts again - he is a totally zealous BG fan and doesn't know anything about anything else.
your 'arguments' are laughable and I have repeatedly exposed the stupidity of your views on versatility.You can't even get Yeats right - the reason he won't be held in the same regard as great European champions is because he wasn't as good as any of them - just check the ratings you fool. And finally can you explain where I refer to Usain Bolt please? |
|
By:
duncan idaho, did you not realise that being headstrong is a flaw
|
|
By:
it is a flaw, rider....what's your point? flaw or not, it's the reason they havent stepped him up in trip before now.
|
|
By:
'your 'arguments' are laughable and I have repeatedly exposed the stupidity of your views on versatility'
they arent MY views,thats the point of horse racing in an ideal world. find great horses, win the guineas, the derby the arc the king george etc etc.. when u have such a horse, u dont say i think we'll take in the guineas, qeII and the sussex and then aspire to run in the sussex again  |
|
By:
Ilwab, I fear you have got your views skew width, re brig and hip.
I don't tend to always agree with hip, in fact we have had a few scuffles but I have him well ahead in the ratings Uncan, last two posts on the money, and that don't happen regularly either. |
|
By:
last 3 posts, record
|
|
By:
his lack of versatility has been as result of own limitations
|
|
By:
ok motley, i can see we are getting nowhere here, i will allow u 3 to all agree with each other. this thread stopped being sensible a long time ago anyway!
|
|
By:
duncan idaho • July 25, 2012 12:07 PM BST
it is a flaw, rider....what's your point? flaw or not, it's the reason they havent stepped him up in trip before now. Fair point Duncan, but there must also be a doubt whether the horse will settle going 10f pace rather than 8f pace. |
|
By:
Joined: 06 Jun 09 | Topic/replies: 26,832 | Blogger: ilikewavingatbuses's blog
ok motley, i can see we are getting nowhere here, i will allow u 3 to all agree with each other. this thread stopped being sensible a long time ago anyway This only happened when you started posting on it Buses. |
|
By:
Don't be like that ILwab, it appears we have reached the intended destination, we are
merely trying to invite you on board, The logical express. But I warn you you don't have to do much to get throwing off the bus |
|
By:
He is away with the fairies.
he has gone to see Brigust - such is Brigust's wisdom and brilliant logic that he acts as a Yoda figure to buses. |
|
By:
logical?
this place is becoming more like wonderland as the days go by. i once read hippriest saying that sea the stars needed to win the arc at 4 to really prove himself but feels frankel has done enough never once running beyond a mile and against the same horse 75% of the time, like u couldnt make it up! |
|
By:
topfarrier, i thinks thats duncans point, but it begs the question, can frankel be called the best ever when its his temperament that has seen him stay at 8f well into his 4yo career
|
|
By:
personal insults, on an internet forum, has this ever been done before
hippriest has been banned more times than i care to remember. this is the type of person normal posters have to deal with on here. petulant slagging matches when they are beaten  sad day! |
|
By:
Fair point Duncan, but there must also be a doubt whether the horse will settle going 10f pace rather than 8f pace.
topfarrier, agree that until he races at 10f we wont know for sure how he'll settle at the slower pace....do think he's more likely to settle now than if they'd tried him 12 months ago, though |
|
By:
Ilwab, you seem to have evolved megalomaniac tendencies, and a selective memory
for the the threads you recall, but that's ok. I've had enough for one morning, heading for another place, where the conscious and self conscious collide, the golf course, to try get my h/cap down. But I find that game a total head fcuk too. GL |
|
By:
I'd agree with too that Duncan although they seem to have hit upon a very simplistic way of riding him over a mile which obviously helps him settle.
Over 10f he'd have to be ridden diffidently and i can't help wondering what would happen if Tom had to take a pull at anytime. |
|
By:
this thread isnt about the search for power motley, maybe u thought megalomania meant something else.
all the best. |
|
By:
[b]
ilikewavingatbuses 25 Jul 12 12:30 Joined: 06 Jun 09 | Topic/replies: 26,834 | Blogger: ilikewavingatbuses's blog logical? this place is becoming more like wonderland as the days go by. i once read hippriest saying that sea the stars needed to win the arc at 4 to really prove himself but feels frankel has done enough never once running beyond a mile and against the same horse 75% of the time, like u couldnt make it up[/b] A man of your undoubted knowledge and sophistication Buses will of course be aware that Youmzain emerged the best horse at the weights in STS's Arc. Therefore I stand by my assertion that it would have been lovely (and indeed conclusive proof of all time greatness) to see him follow up at 4 which he may well have done IMO. What sort of insights do you have - aside from your f@cking brainless 'How's Thommo' thread? |
|
By:
rider, without wanting to get involved in the meat of this thread again, the whole point is that different people have different ideas of 'greatness'....and as far as ratings go, handicappers would come up with the same ratings for Frankel whether he's been headstrong or not...so if his Queen Anne performance is the highest-rated performance they've come up with, that's what it is (from their perspective)
basically, this thread has been people with different definitions of greatness arguing that their definition is definitively correct! My contributions have been only to point out flaws in their arguments. I havent an opinion as to who is the greatest ever or how that should be arrived at...each to their own, as long as they dont tell me that they're right! |