excelebration is top class its a bit like mill house and arkle isnt it

whichever horse runs in the breeders cup mile has to be a shoe in

with all due respect HipPriest, you saying it doesn't make it so.

Frankel hasnt seen beyond a mile yet, which i find highly unusual given his pedigree and ability. Its not a DEFINING performance, he puts one of them up everytime he runs, if you want spectacular visual performances then frankel is your horse. but there is still no depth to the horse.

the difference between frankel and other exceptional horses over the years is that frankel's connections continually allowed their horse to line up against the same opposition over the same trip. others wouldve allowed their colt to beat the life out of them over a couple of races over a mile, then step them up and do the same over 10, then do the same over 12.

frankel is awesome but to say there is not a horse in the world that can beat him between 6-12f is laughable and holds no credence whatsoever given he hasnt even gone beyond a mile yet and hes retiring in a few months.

cheers.

I guess what you're saying Hipster is that we need Frankel to destroy a Nathaniel by 6-7L and he in turn to be nicely clear of St Nic and something like Cityscape. A performance to ram down the throat of the doubters.

I'm sure as I can be it will come. To expose the stamina doubt they have got to get him off the bridle before he's away and gone. I just can't see that happening, remember he was still travelling on the bit just over a furlong out in the Sussex with a 5 time G1 winning miler unable to make any impression.

I envisage something similar in the Juddmonte, except he wont be leading. Queally will press the button  inside the 2 and he'll sprint clear, these middle distance horses will be blown away.

oh and  secretariat won the triple crown ffs, Frankel achievements arent remotely close to what big red has achieved!

all ill say is that any horse who is brilliant over a mile, in a relatively weak division, and continues to race over that distance against the same competition will find it a lot easier to remain unbeaten.

there is WAY too much being made of the fact hes stayed in training for 3 seasons. the reason hes still in training in the first place is because other horses did in 2 seasons that he hasnt even half completed 3. if he was a guineas and derby winner there is no chance he'd have reappeared as a 4 yr old. the point is hes underachieved given his ability and the amount of time hes spent on the track.

this horse shouldve been running in the eclipse (at the very least.) not only that he shouldve raced over 10f in the champion stakes last season, there was no reason not too. worries about not settling and not staying seem to be far more exaggerated with frankel that with any other horse ever. just fooking run him and see what happens, theres always going to be a risk, will he stay, wont he, will he settle etc....


even the most accomplished of horses who have proved they stay have lost races on the basis on not settling. its just a part of the game, the point is running the horses in the appropriate races, hoping the get the trips and hoping they settle and if they dont settle u still hope tye'll win anyway... thats the point of the sport.

u dont just continue to allow the horse to take up the SAME challenge again and again out of fear of him not truly being ready. its incredible to me, i dont get it.


what on earth has this horse got to prove running in the the feckin sussex again, i mean honestly? nothing can beat him over a mile hes proved it about 9 times now, the opposition will pretty much be the same and if anything will be even thinner on the ground whilst all the time better races against different horses over different trips are passing us by but its ok, once frankels unbeaten rec stays intact, thats all that matters, that and his rating!

the thing is now im gonna have to listen to a load of carp about how im a 'knocker'. his 'knockers' this and his 'knockers' that.... sometimes i think his followers just read what they want to read on this forum. i have said many times i think hes brilliant but am becoming disillusioned with how hes being campaigned and just want to see how he stands up to the decent mid distance horses over 10f AND 12. obv its too late for 12f given he hasnt even gone over 10 yet and without fail when he wins the sussex there will prob be a thread with my name in the title or a post refering to me on one of the numerous threads about what do u think of that, 'wheres ilwab now, wheres his knockers now, i hope u didnt lay him for too much' etc etc when all i want to see is him run over further so we can put all this nonsense to bed, the horse deserves a chance. i too think he'd be almost impossible to beat over 10 but i want to see him run against good horses over that trip, thats it, thats all i want!


i think i have a valid argument regarding him having not gone up yet and will be happy to address any points anyone cares to make referring my argument.

You are wasting your time Ilike. These muppets on here are just being led by the nose, completely clueless. Just a typical bunch of £1 punters hanging over the rails wanting Cecil's autograph. Sign my racecard Henry, don't waste your time on them.
What you are saying is absolutely correct and highlights the complete cowardice of the Cecil camp and, even worse, the complete cowardice of the racing media unwilling to criticise Cecil just in case he throws his toys from the pram and doesn;t give them any quotes or stable visits. He, Cecil, is just highlighting how weak our racing media is and, by the comments from some of the above, how brainless some people are.

hip priest........do you really think frankel could win at 12f.....if you do youre barmy

brigust i have spoken to henry cecil on numerous occasions and havent insulted him with asking for his autograph

and dont believe evrything you read the public clamour for the horse to race on and take up the challenge in america might change their minds nothing is set in stone

jonny i dont get too caught up in trainers comments, in fact i do my best not to even bother as they arent gonna tell me anything i dont know. im a skeptic, i believe absolutely nothing and trust nobody. its like allowing the banker to look inside your box on deal or no deal and then trying to figure out if hes telling me the truth or not!

but frankel is going to be one of the most valuable stallions ever so i just cant see them risking a plane journey across the atlantic against american milers. what if he doesnt travel well and actually ends up getting beat? all of a sudden hes not unbeatable anymore and so close to the end his connections would defo be kicking themselves.

if they can get the sussex pot of the way and 2 wins over 10f he will never see a track again imo...unfortunately!

I think The Juddmonte will be Frankel's only 10f race, I reckon it will be The QEII rather than The Champion Stakes at Ascot.

the champion stakes is a much bigger pot now its been moved to ascot and a race the owner targets having won it twice recently (the old version) with twice over and if he wins well over 10f at york it would the logical step to silence the doubters having already won a QE2

10f at Ascot is not the same as 10+f at York. And then there is the timing of the races too. Being close enough to the KG and St Leger to deter top older horses and stamina laden 3 year olds. This has been the most coniving and calculated layout of a racehorses career I have ever seen. Why everyone isn't jumping up and down and shouting from the rooftops I don't know.

brigust1
24 Jul 12 23:14
Joined:
07 Dec 01
| Topic/replies: 4,038 | Blogger: brigust1's blog
What a lot of people seem to miss is that this is a Frankel cop out.

Lots of horses could have been Frankels in the last 40 years. Nijinsky would have been unbeaten and unbeatable at a mile, so would Brigadier Gerard, Dancing Brave, El Gran Senor, Dubai Millenium, Tudor Minstrel (longer ago I know) and Nashwan. Had any of the above stayed at a mile and run in the same races as Frankel they would also have been unbeaten and unbeatable. The only thing is they could have stepped up to 10f and 12f with ease and still bolted up. And Frankel will never be any of the above because his connections obviously doubt his ability to prove it. So how on this earth some people think Frankel is somehow a living legend is beyond me.

You argument doesn't hold true does it?
(1) If Nijinsky stays in training a 4 like Frankel, he comes up against your mate Brigadier Gerard over a mile they both can't be unbeatable can they?
(2) Nashwan won the Guineas, but the best 3 year=old miler didn't run in that race Zilzal was the champ over a mile that year, Warning the 4 year-old was also in traing that year not quite as good as Zilzal but I'd bet my last penny he'd have beaten Nashwan over a mile, so Nashwan's at best 3rd best over a mile that year.
(3)Dubai Millennium stayed in training at 4 but he never came across Giant's Causeway, who I personally think could have given a great race if not beat him.
(4)If Dancing Brave stays in training like Frankel, is he good enough to concede the weight for and sex allowance to Miesque

It's really difficult to remain unbeaten when you're consistantly running at the top level. On numerous form lines involving Goldikova whatever way you look at it Frankel is demonstrably by a long, long way the best miler for at least the last 4 years. You couldn't catagorically say that for any of your suggested unbeatable milers.

hp....cecil thinks he has no chance and i think he knows more than you..

Frankel will stay 12f and may be capable of winning an Arc if allowed to settle(Frankie not Quealy) run at a true pace Danedream would make a real race of it with late rally? but at the usual french muddle frankel would have tactical edge(speed).My view is that Frankel is the best of the colts and Danedream  the best of the fillies,dont think there would be more than 3-4 lenths between them in a true run Arc,so therefore Frankels rating looks silly.(but he is amazing)

Me too