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I understand that blood is thicker than water, but I do feel that Aiden needs to think this all out a little bit more. I think Joseph is very good but to be putting up 1lb overweight in Group races is not acceptable. I know it didn't make the slightest difference on Twirl but it will do in the future. He looked like a giant on the filly and for me surely the Ballydoyle maestro needs to pick certain mounts as oppose to legging him up on them all.
Kinane, Spencer, Murtagh, Fallon and O'Brien. Not hard to pick the odd one out.
Kinane, Spencer, Murtagh, Fallon and O'Brien. Not hard to pick the odd one out.
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and then puts up 1lb overweight on the newcomer in first at Naas.
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Yes I agree lads, when you have three stable jocks, why put up one whom is going to do overweight, after all, a pound =a neck in a close finish.
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its a slap in the face to o'donoghue and heffernan, both g1 winning jockeys.
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he is not a good jockey in any case---lost both guineas races over the weekend
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there will be lots of these threads as I said before
"the kid is not good enough at group level" |
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absolute nonsense valuebetting......the kid is not good enough at group level.....are u for real....
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richers
I will call this thread up at the end of the year and hold my hands up if I am wrong but he is just to young to have the cut and thrust of a senior jock but good luck to O' brien senior saying "he is invaluable to the team" just cos he keeps saying it does not mean it is right we will see at the end of the year |
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To put up overweight full stop is not acceptable but to do it in a group race is unforgivably arrogant and unprofessional.
The other stable jocks must be in despair that they are getting passed over for him. |
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nepotism I think you call it.
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its why johnny left
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Maybe he is invaluable in the sense that he is based at the yard full time and his feedback is probably more helpful than a jockey who turns up once a week to ride work but what grates is when the arsslckers pen articles praising his rides when we all know full well that the Tome Eaves, Davis Allans and Jim Crowleys of this world would have at least as much successs on the same mounts. A good example of how writers will try and ingratiate themselves with this operation was when Again won the Irish 1,000 GNS a few years back. Willoughby did a piece praising David Wachman, stating that he was the trainer of the future or similar words, when we all know that he is a run of the mill trainer who by family connection gets far more than his deserved share of quality yearlings.
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Obviously it has the backing of Coolmore. It is not Aiden decision, so why is it tolerated?
The only conclusion I can draw, is that a family member jockey keeps the cards even closer to their chest. This may seem bizarre, but despite the huge stud values at stake, they still can't resist the thrill of a punt. |
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value apart from the debacle on sna i think he has handled himself well and showed himself capable....i dont think magnier tabor or smith would allow it considering some of the vast amounts of money up for grabs in these group races....in your opinion will he win the derby with camelot?
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I wish ATR and RUK wouldnt do features on the kid. He's practically incoherent! He did ride a winner at the Breeders Cup though. I find Obriens (The Trainer) horses a bit hit and miss at the top level anyway, regardless of rider.
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good point keefter...but people will be quicker to point out the losers rather than the winners.....if you looked back 10years on ballydoyle i could pick out certain rides were kinane,murtagh and spencer all got rides wrong for the stable..
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i can c him doing a grevile starkey on camerlot in the derby.the kid is chancy,cold reasoning is called for not sentiment
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I'm afraid you are already wrong Valuebetting as he's won 5 Group 1 or Grade 1 races including 2 classics with the most recent one just over a week ago.
At 19 he's also the same age now as Swinburn when he won his first Derby, older than Piggott when he won his and older than Spencer who was only 17 when he won his first classic. |
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You all seem to have missed the glaringly obvious reason as to why Joseph is now number one jockey at Ballydoyle, its nepotism but not in a strict sense of the word.
Its hardly a secret that Joseph as it stands now is having trouble with his weight and naturally as he gets older the problem will increase. Daddy knows that Joseph might be on borrowed time as a flat jockey so is giving him an enormous helping hand if what seems inevitable does come to past, give his son as many big race winners as he can while he can, you really can't blame Daddy for that, only doing whats best for his son. To think that Joseph is top jock because he has valuable inside knowledge of the Ballydoyle horses is a little too convenient an excuse for my liking, the same could be said of Seamie Heffernan and Conor O'Donoghue now couldn't it?, and both have much more experience than Joseph has. The most nauseating thing out of all this was the Irish Turf Clubs decision to raise the weights for all conditions races and maiden races, I think most of these changes will be fully implemented by the start of July?. Now let me see, what races would Joseph be riding in most often?, yes thats right maidens and condition races. The Turf Club can try and hoodwink the naive public all they want as to the reason why these changes were introduced, but not everyone is that stupid. The real reason why these changes were introduced was to accommodate one individual, the controlling influence of Coolmore on Irish racings regulators has no limitations, the tail continues to wag the dog, woof woof!. |
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I'm afraid you are already wrong Valuebetting
ima come back at the end of the year, you have picked out 6 races he won I am sure punters can pick 60 on here they think he should have won, personally I could not give a monkeys fook how good he is but at least let the kid ride a year of group races before you come on here spouting how good he is. |
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oh no,maz is going to get into semantics now and bore the tits of us
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I haven't said how good, bad or indifferent he is Valuebetting, just pointing out the fact that he has already ridden as many Group/Grade 1 winners as he has when you were saying he's not good enough to. It's hardly my fault you said something inaccurate is it?
Plus I've only just noticed that you actually said group races and didn't mention a specific level of group race and I only listed the Gr1s, so that makes you view even more inaccurate considering he had just won a couple of Gr3 races at the Chester meeting. Yeah I suppose facts can be a bit boring kingrat but then again that's not usually something you have to worry about when posting eh?  |
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Silvergreaser
I did not mean to imply that he got the job on the basis of his everyday knowledge of the horses - was just trying to give a generous interepretation why he could be described as invaluable. The reason he is in the driving seat is because Ryan Moore dilly dallied too much when offered the position, no doubt wanting the best of both worlds and not wanting to miss riding Workforce in his 4 y-r-o campaign. At the time we could not have envisaged how much the fortunes of the Stoute yard would cool. |
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Joseph is a capable jockey but so are many of his peers, because he's ridden group one winners doesn't suddenly make him into a super jockey, most capable jockeys will ride group one winners if given the right ammunition, Coolmore have a virtual arsenal at their disposal, so there will be many more group one winners for Joseph along the way and nearly all the praise will be funnelled towards Daddy and Son when in fact the most likely scenario was that the best horse had just won a horse race?.
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sorry ima
lets see how many races he loses coolmore instead of winning them, good luck |
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AOB and Coolmore know that they can trust Joseph. How many other trainers can say that with 100% certainty abot their jockeys. That is worth a lot.
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so whats yre pt maz,is yre oppinion that the kid is the best jockey for the jop or sud a decent pro jock do the job.?
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To my mind will give up in a year or two.
He will not be able to starve himself for much longer the lad is too big for the flat. Will he switch to jumps.....I think not. |
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he'll be full time assistant to daddy.
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Entirely true silvergreaser and there are a good few other jockeys good enough to ride the Ballydoyle horses that will never be given the chance to show that, with the main difference being Joseph O'Brien is good enough to but was fortunate to be given the chance. Although if he had shown himself to be no good even before getting the rides then he wouldn't have got them to begin with.
All jockeys lose races Valuebetting and I don't expect Joseph O'Brien to be any different. The only difference I am expecting is that when he loses one there will be plenty only to quick to say he was the reason why, which probably would have been the case if Camelot was beaten a neck in the 2000gns instead of winning by that margin. That was a top notch ride too in that he came from behind, had to weave his way through and also go for gaps between horses, had to change his whip hand a couple of times inside the final furlong and was still strong enough to win in a battling finish.......but that all gets put down to riding the best horse and so he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. It might actually be worth a few people going over to YouTube and watching the race again, although watch the winner only all the way through the race rather than the actual race itself to see just what a good ride that was. |
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Mr Magnier is probably the most astute men in bloodstock/racing world.
It is inconceivable that JOB would be riding these horses in major races if there was even the sligthest doubt concerning his ability.It's ultimately his decision, He's a very talented boy, he just needs to aquire the nesscessary experience to go with his talent. As with all these jockey bashing threads, lots of ill informed comments. |
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Not good enough and never will be, all of us can win on steering jobs. He is so lucky.
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I think he's a decent jockey kingrat and other than a misjudged ride last time on SNA where a much more experienced jockey on Murtagh did the same thing in the race, I don't really see where J O'Brien has done much wrong. If I fancied a horse and he was on it then it certainly wouldn't put me off backing it and that would only be the case if he threw in a series of bad rides rather than a very rare one as all jockeys do that from time to time anyway.
Having said that, I probably wouldn't even have to make that decision anyway as Coolmore would do it for everyone anyway as they are a multi-million Euros business and not a benevolent fund and they had no problems in moving on Kinane and Spencer when they thought they were no longer up to it or not quite ready to deal with that kind of pressure. |
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18 years old.
All those Jockeys mentioned above Murtagh, Fallon and Kinane were all **** of the highest order when they were at Ballydoyle. Thought they had a divine right to do as they pleased. They all got the boot eventually bar Seamie and COD. Heff basically AOB good friend and COD a nicer fella you could not meet. Give over about the above 3 they had loads of stinkers at Coolmore. |
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I think he's a decent jockey kingrat and other than a misjudged ride last time on SNA where a much more experienced jockey on Murtagh did the same thing in the race, I don't really see where J O'Brien has done much wrong
He was shíte on Betterbetterbetter two days after. |
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theres a difference them moving on the likes of kinane etc, surely if they gave joseph the boot it would put some strain on their relationship with aidan?
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And I don't think he's as bad as made out, and seems like a decent lad, but the SNA ride is not some sort of isolated incident.
There are plenty of valid points raised about him - as someone already said, putting up OW in a Group race is very poor. Other jockeys wouldn't get away with doing that with Coolmore |
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They all ride stinkers at some time or other and Joseph would not be on them if he could not be relied on to do the job. It is as simple as that.
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Remind me of Murtagh on Frozen Fire and Masterofthehorse at the same meeting last week. Two disgusting rides!!!!!!
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'too much to do' and 'not reach winner' remarks on the racing post results are often a sign of a poorly judged ride. i remember that ride by murtagh on masterofthehorse, far from his finest. he made up for it on the duke though, murtagh got him to dig down and rally like he never had before against papal bull. with joseph, he shakes the reins, tries the whip, and sits motionless.
i have no doubt he'll be fantastic for ballydoyle off the course working alongside his father, just have no faith or confidence in his riding ability whatsoever. cant really mention camelot, was far too good at newmarket and couldve won by a couple, all joseph had to do was get headway. |