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popped in to watch a race this afternoon whilst out at work.
no-one watching the racing but 3 of the 4 machines being used.
3 generations of the same family were playing on 1 machine. a young lad who didnt have any money on him, a mother who had got a few notes on her and an elderly lady, probably about 80 who sat with her purse open all the time on her lap.
i watched as they put in 80 quid and lost. the mother then put in 20 from her purse and lost. the grandmother then got out 80 from her purse. they lost this.
the grandmother then gave the mother her bank card and she went to the counter to get 80 put in the machine and 20 cashback.
they were taking it in turns to play the game. this 80 quid went quicker than the rest had and the mother pocketed the other 20 cashback.
they then put in their change and left.
i would like to say there was a happy ending to this but they seemed to know the cashiers very well so i can only assume they are regular losers in there.
no-one watching the racing but 3 of the 4 machines being used.
3 generations of the same family were playing on 1 machine. a young lad who didnt have any money on him, a mother who had got a few notes on her and an elderly lady, probably about 80 who sat with her purse open all the time on her lap.
i watched as they put in 80 quid and lost. the mother then put in 20 from her purse and lost. the grandmother then got out 80 from her purse. they lost this.
the grandmother then gave the mother her bank card and she went to the counter to get 80 put in the machine and 20 cashback.
they were taking it in turns to play the game. this 80 quid went quicker than the rest had and the mother pocketed the other 20 cashback.
they then put in their change and left.
i would like to say there was a happy ending to this but they seemed to know the cashiers very well so i can only assume they are regular losers in there.
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You are a either a very bad person Banks or a very strange one.You know as well as i do that these machines are evil and damage tens of thousands of peoples lives.Yet you just keep coming on here with these pointless bookmaker arguments trying to defend them.You have proved nothing.If you get your entertainment by spending hours on here pushing bookmaker propaganda you need to get some more rewarding hobbies.
I'm neither.
As I have explained many times before just because I offer an alternative side to discussions doesn't mean I am pro machines. The rubbish spouted on here is incredible. Many of the points put forward are naive and lack any depth. They are full of rhetoric which will get people nowhere but many, and I include you in this group, are impervious to this and as a result just rant on repeating the same points without any real understanding of how to get things changed.
In some ways it is a shame as the same amount of effort put into trying to do something constructive about things may go some way towards effecting change. Unfortunately we now live in a victim dominated culture where people are more keen to point the finger than stand up and do anything to improve matters.
As I have explained many times before just because I offer an alternative side to discussions doesn't mean I am pro machines. The rubbish spouted on here is incredible. Many of the points put forward are naive and lack any depth. They are full of rhetoric which will get people nowhere but many, and I include you in this group, are impervious to this and as a result just rant on repeating the same points without any real understanding of how to get things changed.
In some ways it is a shame as the same amount of effort put into trying to do something constructive about things may go some way towards effecting change. Unfortunately we now live in a victim dominated culture where people are more keen to point the finger than stand up and do anything to improve matters.
Just more twisting and turning from a well trained communicator.Strange how your mr reasonable alternative side of the argument act is ALWAYS pro bookmaker.
"In some ways it is a shame as the same amount of effort put into trying to do something constructive about things may go some way to effecting change".Exactly the type of meaningless rubbish you hear every day from well coached politicians.Just camouflage to try to shift the argument from the truth,which is that FOBTs are simply wrong because they cause huge damage to tens of thousands of people and their families,to lets be reasonable and take a middle path here.That way we can get away with continuing this legalised theft.No Banks there is no middle way with FOBTs,they are wrong and any decent person can see that.
"In some ways it is a shame as the same amount of effort put into trying to do something constructive about things may go some way to effecting change".Exactly the type of meaningless rubbish you hear every day from well coached politicians.Just camouflage to try to shift the argument from the truth,which is that FOBTs are simply wrong because they cause huge damage to tens of thousands of people and their families,to lets be reasonable and take a middle path here.That way we can get away with continuing this legalised theft.No Banks there is no middle way with FOBTs,they are wrong and any decent person can see that.
QED.
It is pointless discussing with you because, like the pub bore, you don't have the mental capacity to develop an argument so just continue trotting out the same unsubstantiated lines.
As a post script I am flattered that you think I am a well trained communicator. I have never received any such training and have never worked in anything like a comms/PR type of role in my life. I think what you really mean is that I had an education. It's not too late for you to learn things too however I suspect your missed place pride will prevent you ever accepting there is a need.
It is pointless discussing with you because, like the pub bore, you don't have the mental capacity to develop an argument so just continue trotting out the same unsubstantiated lines.
As a post script I am flattered that you think I am a well trained communicator. I have never received any such training and have never worked in anything like a comms/PR type of role in my life. I think what you really mean is that I had an education. It's not too late for you to learn things too however I suspect your missed place pride will prevent you ever accepting there is a need.
After all your words Banks, what it comes down to is you defending the FOBTs in your own devious way and me and most others on here saying they are wrong.Just as you choose to defend everything bookmakers do.
Nwt wrong with a bit of phonetic wording once in a while. I could claim it was deliberate to show I wasn't a trained communicator but that would be a lie.
That's what comes from trying to eat and type at the same time. Multi tasking was never my strong point!
That's what comes from trying to eat and type at the same time. Multi tasking was never my strong point!
After all your words Banks, what it comes down to is you defending the FOBTs in your own devious way and me and most others on here saying they are wrong.Just as you choose to defend everything bookmakers do.
toronto44 that is exactly my point. I don't say they are right or wrong I merely point out the naievity of many of the reponses. When I give facts they are not aimed to support the other side of the argument rather that they highlight that unqualified opinions are completely worthless.
Take the pub comment earlier. It is easy to say that B2s have decimated the pub trade and everyone nods in agreement and says how awful they are. If you were the operating these machines you could do what I did and google the numbers and see that if every pound spent on machines came at a direct cost of a pound from alcohol sales the total drop in alcohol sales would be no more than 3%. This show that the throwaway comment that B2s have crippled pubs is nonsense and would discredit the source it came from.
A more sophisticated argument may have more traction but at the moment the machine operators must be laughing themselves to sleep every night at the lack of a credible stance against them.
toronto44 that is exactly my point. I don't say they are right or wrong I merely point out the naievity of many of the reponses. When I give facts they are not aimed to support the other side of the argument rather that they highlight that unqualified opinions are completely worthless.
Take the pub comment earlier. It is easy to say that B2s have decimated the pub trade and everyone nods in agreement and says how awful they are. If you were the operating these machines you could do what I did and google the numbers and see that if every pound spent on machines came at a direct cost of a pound from alcohol sales the total drop in alcohol sales would be no more than 3%. This show that the throwaway comment that B2s have crippled pubs is nonsense and would discredit the source it came from.
A more sophisticated argument may have more traction but at the moment the machine operators must be laughing themselves to sleep every night at the lack of a credible stance against them.
banks , do you bet on here ?
i never see you posting anything about horse racing such as who you think will win , what a bad ride a certain jockey gave a horse , having an opinion about anything to do with horse races etc .
is it your hobby to post on threads about why people think bookmakers practices are wrong in the eyes of some ( not your eyes of course ) ?
i never see you posting anything about horse racing such as who you think will win , what a bad ride a certain jockey gave a horse , having an opinion about anything to do with horse races etc .
is it your hobby to post on threads about why people think bookmakers practices are wrong in the eyes of some ( not your eyes of course ) ?
I bet plenty but see no point swapping views with sources I can't verify.
I have a circle of friends who are keen punters whose opinions I trust and I prefer to keep my punting discussions confined to them.
I have a circle of friends who are keen punters whose opinions I trust and I prefer to keep my punting discussions confined to them.
toronto44 is correct.hth
Explain why?
Base your response of facts not unsubstantiated opinion please.
Explain why?
Base your response of facts not unsubstantiated opinion please.
I bet plenty but see no point swapping views with sources I can't verify.
Bit of a cop out, all these are on here are views with very little "Inside info". you dont need to verify a view, you either agree or disagree or may learn something. Lots of good threads on ante post and the Cheltenham forum.
Bit of a cop out, all these are on here are views with very little "Inside info". you dont need to verify a view, you either agree or disagree or may learn something. Lots of good threads on ante post and the Cheltenham forum.
First i dont trust any figures you come up with,no doubt you have all the figures to hand to twist the facts in favour of the continued misery these machines are causing.Maybe you could post these figures and their source,do they come from the bookmaker paid for Gambling Commission?You can prove anything with a clever statistician except the truth.
Second you then twist these dodgy statistics.Your figures are for total alcohol sales.As you said yourself supermarkets account now for more than half of all alcohol sales.So that leaves the rest say 45%, split between pubs,off licences,hotels,restaurants,bars,holiday camps,private clubs,sports centers and a lot more.So the alleged 3% drop in sales becomes say 7% after taking out supermarkets.Then say pubs are selling 60% of the 45% left,we then have even with your figures a drop in sales of say 11% due directly to the FOBTs.This is more than enough to send tens of thousands of already struggling pubs out of business,
Second you then twist these dodgy statistics.Your figures are for total alcohol sales.As you said yourself supermarkets account now for more than half of all alcohol sales.So that leaves the rest say 45%, split between pubs,off licences,hotels,restaurants,bars,holiday camps,private clubs,sports centers and a lot more.So the alleged 3% drop in sales becomes say 7% after taking out supermarkets.Then say pubs are selling 60% of the 45% left,we then have even with your figures a drop in sales of say 11% due directly to the FOBTs.This is more than enough to send tens of thousands of already struggling pubs out of business,
Bit of a cop out, all these are on here are views with very little "Inside info". you dont need to verify a view, you either agree or disagree or may learn something. Lots of good threads on ante post and the Cheltenham forum.
I don't disagree with that and I do read loads of posts to see if there is any info I have missed but I'm not a big fan of swapping tips with strangers. It seems a fairly pointless exercise to me.
I don't disagree with that and I do read loads of posts to see if there is any info I have missed but I'm not a big fan of swapping tips with strangers. It seems a fairly pointless exercise to me.
But not a pointless exercise to spend hours on here arguing for and defending bookmakers.
First i dont trust any figures you come up
That is beyond childish. You don't lie the conclusions so you pretend the facts aren't true!
Which figures don't you trust? I get them all through google and will happily post the source for every stat I make.
As for your use of stats well your alcohol tale starts with one verified stat, alters it and then drifts off into a raft of assumptions and estimations. No wonder your arguments fall at the first hurdle.
That is beyond childish. You don't lie the conclusions so you pretend the facts aren't true!
Which figures don't you trust? I get them all through google and will happily post the source for every stat I make.
As for your use of stats well your alcohol tale starts with one verified stat, alters it and then drifts off into a raft of assumptions and estimations. No wonder your arguments fall at the first hurdle.
Not so much about swopping tips imo, more an exchange of information on a certain animal, racetrack, trend, sectional time, place to stay, ive got tickets of a forumite before, info on a last minute place to stay for the Open meeting and many other snippets.
Its good to put back in something yourself if you can, ive found places to stay for others and often contribute to threads about the draw, watering, stalls positions and bet settlement and queries to people who need help.
Its good to put back in something yourself if you can, ive found places to stay for others and often contribute to threads about the draw, watering, stalls positions and bet settlement and queries to people who need help.
But not a pointless exercise to spend hours on here arguing for and defending bookmakers.
I spend way way more time sorting out my own punting, speaking to friends about it and travelling all over wathing events. Apologies for not writing a diary listing it all on here for your consumption.
I spend way way more time sorting out my own punting, speaking to friends about it and travelling all over wathing events. Apologies for not writing a diary listing it all on here for your consumption.
My facts are obvious common sense.Even if the figure is say just a 7% drop in business due to FOBTs,the number of pubs closing due to them would be huge.
Twist and turn as much as you like but you have helped prove my point about pub closures with you own figures.
Twist and turn as much as you like but you have helped prove my point about pub closures with you own figures.
Banks, Bon Viveur...Give it a rest.The poor and feckless have only so much money to spend. (unless they turn to crime which I am sure that you have the latest statistics to hand no doubt !)If it goes in the FOBT's then it is lost to the economy as a whole.That conclusion isn't Rocket Science !!
Now calm down, the wine bars of Central London are now open and it is time to discuss the finer points of business with your circle of friends, and you can delight them with tales of dividends from your Bookmaker Shareholdings..
No point in getting worked up and making all those spelling mistakes !!
Now calm down, the wine bars of Central London are now open and it is time to discuss the finer points of business with your circle of friends, and you can delight them with tales of dividends from your Bookmaker Shareholdings..
No point in getting worked up and making all those spelling mistakes !!
My facts are obvious common sense.
Oh dear. That is possibly the most ridiculous phrase I have seen on here in many a year and there is some stiff competition to beat!
I can only assume you are on a wind up. I worry for you if not.
Oh dear. That is possibly the most ridiculous phrase I have seen on here in many a year and there is some stiff competition to beat!
I can only assume you are on a wind up. I worry for you if not.
Sometimes its better to just take it on the chin Banks and get your strength up for the next bookmaker v punter debate.Why not go back to HQ and get fresh instructions.
Still no source for those figures then!!!!!!!!
Still no source for those figures then!!!!!!!!
Toronto has a pathological hatred of bookmakers and portrays his views as facts and attempts to bully anyone with the cheek to disagree with him as an evil, greedy, exploitative ogre. He is the pub bore who thinks he knows best for everyone and the public shouldn't have a right to spend their leisure time as they please, especially poor people for some reason.
There will sadly, always be victims in a free society where people are given choice, whether it be drinking, smoking, gambling, internet gambling or roulette machines. The operators of the machines are regulated, taxed and made to contribute to charities to aid those that have allowed the FOBTs to affect their lives seek treatment.
The vast majority of FOBT users do so because they enjoy it and spend well within their means. The very notion that FOBTs are responsible for the closure of pubs, a massive crime wave, whole High Sreets closing down and other equally outlandish statements made by Toronto are just plain ridiculous.
At the end of the day it all boils down to choice. Do you think we should live in a free society where people should be allowed to make their own decisions but where sadly, a small percentage will suffer or a society where we have no choice? I know which one I'd choose.
There will sadly, always be victims in a free society where people are given choice, whether it be drinking, smoking, gambling, internet gambling or roulette machines. The operators of the machines are regulated, taxed and made to contribute to charities to aid those that have allowed the FOBTs to affect their lives seek treatment.
The vast majority of FOBT users do so because they enjoy it and spend well within their means. The very notion that FOBTs are responsible for the closure of pubs, a massive crime wave, whole High Sreets closing down and other equally outlandish statements made by Toronto are just plain ridiculous.
At the end of the day it all boils down to choice. Do you think we should live in a free society where people should be allowed to make their own decisions but where sadly, a small percentage will suffer or a society where we have no choice? I know which one I'd choose.
toronto you may find it helpful to join the real world. Pub closures are down to a variety of reasons. Drink driving laws and the general population's shift in attitude towards them is one of the chief reasons. Another is the bootleg alcohol brought in from across the channel and sold at a much lower price than the pub price. Both these factors have had an effect which results in more people drinking at home or at their friends's home.
If you want to do anything about FOBTs in your area lobby your local licensing authority. That is your local council ( the one where you pay your council tax ). You can speak direct to the Chairman of the Licensing Committee. His or her name and contact details will be on the council's website.
You can be a man of action or remain as you are a barstool whinger.
If you want to do anything about FOBTs in your area lobby your local licensing authority. That is your local council ( the one where you pay your council tax ). You can speak direct to the Chairman of the Licensing Committee. His or her name and contact details will be on the council's website.
You can be a man of action or remain as you are a barstool whinger.
Poor old Pixie lives in his own little world of self deception,trying to justify to himself his continuing scamming and theft from mainly poor and vulnerable people,
I do strongly dislike anyone who feeds off the misery of others.In my job i see a lot of these types of people and they always try to justify what they know is wrong with devious arguments.
Work to do now will be back later
I do strongly dislike anyone who feeds off the misery of others.In my job i see a lot of these types of people and they always try to justify what they know is wrong with devious arguments.
Work to do now will be back later
whodareswins (!!) and pixie (!!!) you two aren't possibly connected are you ?
Get off the forum you plants and next time be a bit more subtle....
Get off the forum you plants and next time be a bit more subtle....
WhoDW I said one of the reasons.If people are losing enough of their low disposable income to keep open and supply large profits to the huge number of these shops,7 in one small Hackney high street.Surely you can see they must be a factor in the death of High Streets and the closure of pubs.A lot of these pubs and shops were struggling anyway due to the recession,so it would not take much to push them over the edge and even a 5% drop in sales due to FOBTs would be enough to send many out of business.Why do you think that virtually the only new shops opening in high streets are bookmakers Fobt arcades.
homefortea I do not know pixie. I have disagreements with him on here. Enjoy Mrs Palm and her daughters.
toronto possibly one of the reasons, but not a significant one in comparison to others. It depends on the job you do as to whether or not you see the effects on humanity that is short of disposal income.
You can try to do something about what you disagree with or just complain about it. Taking your case to those that can effect change seems a better way to me than just complaining. But each to his own.
You can try to do something about what you disagree with or just complain about it. Taking your case to those that can effect change seems a better way to me than just complaining. But each to his own.
banks , i am not necessarily talking about bets you have made or are about to make .
my point being that i never see you partake in any discussion involving horse racing in any way . everyday there are bad rides , suspected non triers etc , but yet you only seem to discuss things related to bookmakers , fobt , closing accounts etc .
my point being that i never see you partake in any discussion involving horse racing in any way . everyday there are bad rides , suspected non triers etc , but yet you only seem to discuss things related to bookmakers , fobt , closing accounts etc .
For all the problems in Ireland government has resisted the introduction of "smart economy" technology into betting offices.
I've not had a bet in a shop in years but regularly watch racing in them so I can comment on the average betting denizen who is, by and large, down on his/her luck.
I'm not in the least sorry to see betting offices closing down and the Irish bookmakers' solution to falling turnover and profits is the dreaded slot machine (the "appeal" to government can be found on-line masquerading as "recommendations to realise the full potential of Irish Betting"-I kid you not!). Ireland and GB share a common problem with an underclass of the impoverished who largely depend on the state for their very existence and the politicians interested in their cause are few and far between. At least we have an emerging socialist movement here ("people before profit" etc) that is representative and vocal whereas, to my eyes, a lib dem/tory constituency is all about protecting the well-heeled (dropping taxes in this woeful recession!!) and labour has long been emasculated from its noble origins. GB has no equivalent of Sinn Fein, the socialist party etc who at least claim to be concerned about the under-privileged. I suspect your version of socialism today is the national front-extreme right to fill the socialist vacuum.
FOBT's are a blight on life and what do the tories do? They recognise it as a cash cow and tax them to the hilt thus ensuring that they are firmly established in your small town betting den and seen as an important revenue earner for the exchequer.
Pleas of free will and choice and the majority by the bookies representatives here ring very hollow when faced by the destruction they cause. I hope this ban in Ireland continues for ever.
I've not had a bet in a shop in years but regularly watch racing in them so I can comment on the average betting denizen who is, by and large, down on his/her luck.
I'm not in the least sorry to see betting offices closing down and the Irish bookmakers' solution to falling turnover and profits is the dreaded slot machine (the "appeal" to government can be found on-line masquerading as "recommendations to realise the full potential of Irish Betting"-I kid you not!). Ireland and GB share a common problem with an underclass of the impoverished who largely depend on the state for their very existence and the politicians interested in their cause are few and far between. At least we have an emerging socialist movement here ("people before profit" etc) that is representative and vocal whereas, to my eyes, a lib dem/tory constituency is all about protecting the well-heeled (dropping taxes in this woeful recession!!) and labour has long been emasculated from its noble origins. GB has no equivalent of Sinn Fein, the socialist party etc who at least claim to be concerned about the under-privileged. I suspect your version of socialism today is the national front-extreme right to fill the socialist vacuum.
FOBT's are a blight on life and what do the tories do? They recognise it as a cash cow and tax them to the hilt thus ensuring that they are firmly established in your small town betting den and seen as an important revenue earner for the exchequer.
Pleas of free will and choice and the majority by the bookies representatives here ring very hollow when faced by the destruction they cause. I hope this ban in Ireland continues for ever.
GB has no equivalent of Sinn Fein, the socialist party etc who at least claim to be concerned about the under-privileged.
To be fair I think the political wing of the IRA might struggle for votes over here.
To be fair I think the political wing of the IRA might struggle for votes over here.
You think I was advocating that?
I despise that party myself and it's no doubt a largely opportunistic move on the part of their old guard. However, its undeniable that they have "recruited" many able dealers in recent times who are young, educated, very articulate, hard-working and on top of their briefs.
Who protects your under-class Banks or is the wittyy riposte what life is about nowadays?
I despise that party myself and it's no doubt a largely opportunistic move on the part of their old guard. However, its undeniable that they have "recruited" many able dealers in recent times who are young, educated, very articulate, hard-working and on top of their briefs.
Who protects your under-class Banks or is the wittyy riposte what life is about nowadays?
In the UK I would say that the over-generous benefits system protects the underclass very well.I think that we can do without a lecture from the Irish whose Political System has been the most corrupt in the Western World for years.
Hang the messenger, muddy the waters and defend the slots at all cost.
Over and out.
Over and out.
Irelands a joke.Its been living off handouts from the E.C. for years.
The vast majority of FOBT users do so because they enjoy it and spend well within their means
Yeah right.
Yeah right.
RA didn't Sinn Fein the socialist party become the Democratic Left? Or was it Sinn Fein the workers party? From my small knowledge of Irish politics Tony Gregory played old CJH like a star.
banks , do you suffer from Atychiphobia ?
Good word!
No I don't. I'm also struggling to understand the relevance of the query unless I have missed something.
Good word!
No I don't. I'm also struggling to understand the relevance of the query unless I have missed something.
In the UK I would say that the over-generous benefits system protects the underclass very well.
It doesn't happen often but I have to say that homefortea is absolutely spot on with this. It has almost become farcical. (The benefits system not me agreeing with hft!)
It doesn't happen often but I have to say that homefortea is absolutely spot on with this. It has almost become farcical. (The benefits system not me agreeing with hft!)
Banks just how does the benefits system of the UK protect anyone from an addiction?
I think you have taken the comment out of context. You made a general point about protection of the underclass as you term it and homefortea responded on that they are protected by the benefits system which is true.
You then appear to have morphed this into us claiming that the benefits system protects people from addiction. That is a level of creativity that toronto44 would be proud of!
You then appear to have morphed this into us claiming that the benefits system protects people from addiction. That is a level of creativity that toronto44 would be proud of!
Dr Gonzo 23 Mar 12 13:20
The vast majority of FOBT users do so because they enjoy it and spend well within their means
Yeah right.
They do. I am a bookmaker and a very tiny percentage in my shops bet more than they can afford and just one person has ever taken the opportunity available to them to self exclude. I'm sorry that the surveys and facts don't suit your argument.
The vast majority of FOBT users do so because they enjoy it and spend well within their means
Yeah right.
They do. I am a bookmaker and a very tiny percentage in my shops bet more than they can afford and just one person has ever taken the opportunity available to them to self exclude. I'm sorry that the surveys and facts don't suit your argument.
The Gamb comission was launched to regulate betting and safeguard punters has in fact caused more problems for vunrulabe people by allowing more betting shops equiped with fobts bizarre really
I reckon for Hills you could say 1 in 3 to 1 in 4. So that is what? 500-600 Shops.
FOBTs were around before the GC and there are no more shops now than there were 10 years ago.
I disagree with that pixie, if you talk to many FOBT players they will maybe not say they hate the things and they are addicted but they will say nigh on everything else. Being a lad who worked in a City Centre Shop and knows quite a few people they would come to me when I was on the ale etc... complaining and stuff.
Obviously it may be different in say your Shop is in Richmond upon Thames or Ross on Wye etc... compared to Salford or Burnley.
Obviously it may be different in say your Shop is in Richmond upon Thames or Ross on Wye etc... compared to Salford or Burnley.
Banks I'll leave hft enjoying the efforts of Mrs Palm and her daughters.
I didn't mention the underclass. If I am not mistaken toronto's case is that FOBTs are addicitve, and frequent by the underclass - whatever that is or whomsoever they are. This addiction means that the user, who is a member of the underclass, is left with no resources to spend on what others would claim are a higher priority such as their families or their own well being.
You claim that the benefits system protects the underclass by your agreement with hft. Once more if I am not mistaken toronto's case is that nothing protects this underclass from its addiction. You have not distinquished if you mean the benefits system does protect the underclass from addiction or if it does not. So it is possible I could have taken your comment out of context.
But you may be avoiding, however inadvertently, addressing toronto's case.
I didn't mention the underclass. If I am not mistaken toronto's case is that FOBTs are addicitve, and frequent by the underclass - whatever that is or whomsoever they are. This addiction means that the user, who is a member of the underclass, is left with no resources to spend on what others would claim are a higher priority such as their families or their own well being.
You claim that the benefits system protects the underclass by your agreement with hft. Once more if I am not mistaken toronto's case is that nothing protects this underclass from its addiction. You have not distinquished if you mean the benefits system does protect the underclass from addiction or if it does not. So it is possible I could have taken your comment out of context.
But you may be avoiding, however inadvertently, addressing toronto's case.
That right like banks? Sure when I joined Hills in 2003 they had about 1700 Shops and now they have 2300 according to wiki.
Surprised at that like as in the two towns closest to me the number of Shops has increased from 2 to 4 in one (population about 30k) and in the other from 8 to 11 (population about 100k)and at the services on the motorway that links the two there is a laddies in there.
Glasgow is horrific - must be like 12 within 200 yards of Central Station.
Surprised at that like as in the two towns closest to me the number of Shops has increased from 2 to 4 in one (population about 30k) and in the other from 8 to 11 (population about 100k)and at the services on the motorway that links the two there is a laddies in there.
Glasgow is horrific - must be like 12 within 200 yards of Central Station.
ah right did'nt realise that banks- so some major opens with two doors to get around the 4 machine rule
what gets me now is the machine mystery customer who downgrades staff for not directing them to the fobt
1st wrap free
what gets me now is the machine mystery customer who downgrades staff for not directing them to the fobt
1st wrap free
lol, is that right capt f?
they knock points off for not asking the mystery shopper if he wants a do on the fobt? heavens above, what a carry on.
they knock points off for not asking the mystery shopper if he wants a do on the fobt? heavens above, what a carry on.
Cadizza, how many of your customers asked to be self-excluded after moaning to you about their losses to you down the pub afterwards?
Would be interesting to know how many of the current cabinet have large share portfolio's in the big High St firms... one or two I'd wager!!
Hills made a few acquisitions, Stanley was a big one and a few smaller chains since 2003.
banks what is your occupation - are u a machine marketing manager for a multiple ?
cadiz yes it is true told bya koral manger who was marked such
cadiz yes it is true told bya koral manger who was marked such
Quite a few, last year I must of done about 6 - that is lads from 20-35.
Had one lad who had actually been clean (not played them for 5 years) buy they opened a new shop and stupidly he went back in and got on them again. It may sound funny but I take it very seriously after seeing a mate top himself due to Gambling and often looked through the Self Exclusion Folder. Had a fair few lads thank me for pulling them up on how to do it etc.... Took one lad in the back (very, very small Shop) so didn't want him having the embarrassment of doing it in front of others and he thanks me whenever I see him. Have had to do it with mates as well - when I was 23 (8 years ago) had to ask a lad 10 years older than me to leave as his Self Ex was not up and he thanked me. There is a right and wrong way to do things when it comes to Self Exclusions, I am a bit oout the ordinary when it comes to all that I must admit as I have a good memory of people but that also applies to dodgy punters etc... with photos that are up behind the screens.
Lost the plot with a DOM when he said "I would take every single penny off these bastards" when doing an audit last July (Hills went to 12 month only self ex's from 5 years). It was that comment and my disgust at the bloke that eventually led to me being fired for having a go at him. I have seen Hills DOMs and Area Managers laugh at Self Exclusions.
It is disgusting and when spout all this "Responsible Gambling" to everyone it makes me feel sick.
Had one lad who had actually been clean (not played them for 5 years) buy they opened a new shop and stupidly he went back in and got on them again. It may sound funny but I take it very seriously after seeing a mate top himself due to Gambling and often looked through the Self Exclusion Folder. Had a fair few lads thank me for pulling them up on how to do it etc.... Took one lad in the back (very, very small Shop) so didn't want him having the embarrassment of doing it in front of others and he thanks me whenever I see him. Have had to do it with mates as well - when I was 23 (8 years ago) had to ask a lad 10 years older than me to leave as his Self Ex was not up and he thanked me. There is a right and wrong way to do things when it comes to Self Exclusions, I am a bit oout the ordinary when it comes to all that I must admit as I have a good memory of people but that also applies to dodgy punters etc... with photos that are up behind the screens.
Lost the plot with a DOM when he said "I would take every single penny off these bastards" when doing an audit last July (Hills went to 12 month only self ex's from 5 years). It was that comment and my disgust at the bloke that eventually led to me being fired for having a go at him. I have seen Hills DOMs and Area Managers laugh at Self Exclusions.
It is disgusting and when spout all this "Responsible Gambling" to everyone it makes me feel sick.
Cadizza, how many of your customers asked to be self-excluded after moaning to you about their losses to you down the pub afterwards?
You're right. That's clearly a valid measure of whether someone is spending more than they can afford.
You're right. That's clearly a valid measure of whether someone is spending more than they can afford.
You have to realise that many people in addiction are in denial. You get them asking "how much do them things take" etc... It ain't about judging them, it is about being real with them. Lads of the same age can talk to each other far better etc... I have done my bollocks loads of times and I know plenty of people who have done theirs as well - that is probably why I am better at dealing with them than say a woman or a bloke just chasing targets who is also not a punter.
It is also probably why I don't belong working in Betting Shops in this day and age!
It is also probably why I don't belong working in Betting Shops in this day and age!
Capt F, Sold three in the last 5 years and left with just one now. Thinking about expanding again (as I'm still in my early forties) but not sure if I can be bothered or enjoy it enough now. When I started at age 18 for one of the worst of the big boys as a board marker/cashier I loved the job even though it was ridiculously badly paid, but it has changed hugely for the worse. I can't stand the machines and have no interest in them; horses and dogs are what got me in this business to start with and is such a small part of my overall take nowadays. The new generation have little interest in horse racing or greyhound racing and exchanges and internet bookmaking have destroyed the betting shops. Without FOBTS four out of five betting shops would shut overnight.
That right like banks? Sure when I joined Hills in 2003 they had about 1700 Shops and now they have 2300 according to wiki.
Surprised at that like as in the two towns closest to me the number of Shops has increased from 2 to 4 in one (population about 30k) and in the other from 8 to 11 (population about 100k)and at the services on the motorway that links the two there is a laddies in there.
Glasgow is horrific - must be like 12 within 200 yards of Central Station.
A lot have moved from estates to town centres so you tend to notice them more. There are also fewer firms eg Hills bought Stanleys etc and increased their numbers that way.
I think there has barely been a change in total numbers in the last decade. There used to be nearly double the number there are today but that was a very long time ago.
Surprised at that like as in the two towns closest to me the number of Shops has increased from 2 to 4 in one (population about 30k) and in the other from 8 to 11 (population about 100k)and at the services on the motorway that links the two there is a laddies in there.
Glasgow is horrific - must be like 12 within 200 yards of Central Station.
A lot have moved from estates to town centres so you tend to notice them more. There are also fewer firms eg Hills bought Stanleys etc and increased their numbers that way.
I think there has barely been a change in total numbers in the last decade. There used to be nearly double the number there are today but that was a very long time ago.
banks what is your occupation - are u a machine marketing manager for a multiple ?
I don't work for a bookmaker.
I don't work for a bookmaker.
Can see how that can be true when I think about the Stanley purchase as well.
Coral bought an indy chain here recently and actually closed a Shop.
Coral bought an indy chain here recently and actually closed a Shop.
Seen an earlier post about how it is a person's own decision whether they play FOBTs or not, which is true, but why then do these big companies pray on the poorer areas where every penny is a prisoner? They know fine well they can exploit these desperate types of people much more easily. Also as far as I'm aware, possibly the two wealthiest areas in Glasgow, Newton Mearns and Bearsden are bookie free areas! The bookies aren't daft, they delibrately target the poorest and most vulnerable.
Because it's supply and demand. Working class people frequent pubs and bet with cash in bookies. Middle classes frequent tennis clubs and bet via credit/debit card on-line.
If they put a bookies in the middle of Bearsden it would do horrible business, no matter how many promotions or offers they do.
Lambie
You sound like me in all honesty. Maybe not the right job for you cocker. End of the day it is all about profit, FOBTs are wrong but profit makes the world go round. I have just about accepted that it ain't the same Industry that even I joined only 9 years ago. The only people who appear to be really happy with how it has changed are Shareholders and the Big Bosses on the Retail side.
You sound like me in all honesty. Maybe not the right job for you cocker. End of the day it is all about profit, FOBTs are wrong but profit makes the world go round. I have just about accepted that it ain't the same Industry that even I joined only 9 years ago. The only people who appear to be really happy with how it has changed are Shareholders and the Big Bosses on the Retail side.
Interesting article,New Liebours fault,but you knew that already.
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http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/meandmymoney/article-2025633/The-bank-s-gone-High-Street-bet.html
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http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/meandmymoney/article-2025633/The-bank-s-gone-High-Street-bet.html
pixie
well done
you must have some nous to go from boardmarker to owner
good luck to you
well done
you must have some nous to go from boardmarker to owner
good luck to you
Got lucky really, Capt F. Worked really hard and got promoted until I managed to save enough to put a deposit on a house which I sold 4 years later, as soon as I had enough to start my first shop and then just re-invested profits. So it was mainly thanks to the property boom in the mid nineties, but thanks for the kind comment.
These machines are undoubtedly a blight and feed off the vulnerable and ignorant. The govt is right to tax them heavily (more than 20pc) would be a start. However do the people who so raucously scream about them also believe the following should be banned?
1- Pubs
2- Racecourses
3- Railway lines
4- High buildings
5- Bingo Halls
6- The Lottery
All can cause horrific problems in the wrong hands. I can't see how you can protect people from themselves tbh, ceratinly not in a liberal and free society anyway...
1- Pubs
2- Racecourses
3- Railway lines
4- High buildings
5- Bingo Halls
6- The Lottery
All can cause horrific problems in the wrong hands. I can't see how you can protect people from themselves tbh, ceratinly not in a liberal and free society anyway...
I think some do need protecting from machines as they do not represent a reasonable chance of a return for what can be a huge outlay for the punter
I think it goes deeper than that though, bookmakers do not need the racing industry which was once central to their existence.
The machine is far more profitable and represents no risk to them whatsoever.
Previous governments saw the dangers that these things could create and jackpots were at a minimum now it seems its just a free for all and those dangers that decided the rules and regulations seem to be forgotten.
I think society deserves what it gets and while everybody wants freedom surely that should depend on the overall effect it has and if it is in general a good thing.
I think it goes deeper than that though, bookmakers do not need the racing industry which was once central to their existence.
The machine is far more profitable and represents no risk to them whatsoever.
Previous governments saw the dangers that these things could create and jackpots were at a minimum now it seems its just a free for all and those dangers that decided the rules and regulations seem to be forgotten.
I think society deserves what it gets and while everybody wants freedom surely that should depend on the overall effect it has and if it is in general a good thing.
i once saw a mong shyte himself in hills rather than give up his spinning on a sat morning and i aint kidding either
Think you should differentiate between the working class and the underclass.....in my view it's the latter scum who exist on the back of our taxes who play the machines....the only solution is sterilisation.
Tom please, I have just ordered the finest Pizza (not a s hite chain one) and have had a pleasant evening in my local where incidentally no-one is on benefits (!) but hard grafters (with me being a notable exception !!)
Posy, not sure you are right there, people on the dole just cant afford an hour on them unless they do a bit of dealing on the side.
Homefortea . . . I think it maybe a new hills
move give every dribbley a free go on the machines early on a sat morning, give them a laxitive bar stink the place out . . . . Stop all the pricewise arbers that way
move give every dribbley a free go on the machines early on a sat morning, give them a laxitive bar stink the place out . . . . Stop all the pricewise arbers that way
Not mainly the underclass who are losing on them.Mainly lowly paid working people who are having their lives ruined.As Moondan says the bit of dole money they have left would not last long on these machines also bringing a lot more crime into already suffering working areas.
Anyway this so called underclass,ie uneducated and ignorant are only condemned to their hopeless lives by 3 generations of the worst educations in the modern world.These English people are not born to being almost sub human.They have been condemned to it by a political class that have given them and their classes children one of the best educations in the world.While they have been happy to play their liberal(
)games with working peoples educations
Anyway this so called underclass,ie uneducated and ignorant are only condemned to their hopeless lives by 3 generations of the worst educations in the modern world.These English people are not born to being almost sub human.They have been condemned to it by a political class that have given them and their classes children one of the best educations in the world.While they have been happy to play their liberal(
)games with working peoples educations
Toronto you may be right but that doesn't solve the underlying problem....times have changed we don't fight wars with huge armies of cannon fodder and there are few jobs for the uneducated and feckless....hence reducing the population of the underclass is the only way forward however harsh the remedy i put forward is.
Yes Hitler had the same idea about sterilisation but in the end chose the gas chambers.So if your children were to fall below a certain income you think sterilisation would be the answer do you.
Lack of an education is the reason for these unemployable people.Yes over population is the cause of this unemployment.So why have this and the last government been giving out millions of passports knowing their own people cant find work.Lat year alone at the time of the highest unemployment(especially young people)this government gave out 1.3 million passports,higher than even under the Labour government.Why because their sponsors and partners in big business are still demanding cheap labour.Can anyone else think of another reason?
Lack of an education is the reason for these unemployable people.Yes over population is the cause of this unemployment.So why have this and the last government been giving out millions of passports knowing their own people cant find work.Lat year alone at the time of the highest unemployment(especially young people)this government gave out 1.3 million passports,higher than even under the Labour government.Why because their sponsors and partners in big business are still demanding cheap labour.Can anyone else think of another reason?
Thank you FB....if only sometimes 
As an example of unscrupulous bosses being supplied with this cheap minimum wage labour,working long unsociable hours just look at the bookmaking industry.
As an example of unscrupulous bosses being supplied with this cheap minimum wage labour,working long unsociable hours just look at the bookmaking industry.
1.3 more
Honestly is that right?? mass unemployment yet they have let ANOTHER 1.3 in .
fooking unreal. . . to hell in a handcart.
Honestly is that right?? mass unemployment yet they have let ANOTHER 1.3 in .
fooking unreal. . . to hell in a handcart.
Taken from the Daily Telegraph last month quoting quoting Home office figures.....
People emigrating here from abroad in 2011 was 582,000.The number of people giving up and moving abroad was 343,000 making a figure of net immigration of 250,000,which is the figure they always give out not the true figure of 582,000.
"in addition 600,000 national insurance numbers were given to non British nationals who wanted to work in the country,an 11% rise on the previous year.About a third went to Eastern Europeans."
So thats 582,000 + 690,000 = 1million 272 thousand people allowed to come into the country last year alone.Thats without illegal immigrants and the hundreds of thousands of student visas given out each year both of whom take jobs.It makes no sense,when you already have 2.8 million unemployed and about the same on sickness benefit.With more jobs being lost than created,it must mean hundreds of thousands of these immigrants are going on the dole or they are taking the jobs of people already here,putting them on the dole.Politicians always say they fill jobs British workers cant or will not do.Well virtually every other country educates and give the skills necessary their own citizens but as figures show its quicker and cheaper to import this cheap more easily exploited labour.
Not the immigrants fault.
People emigrating here from abroad in 2011 was 582,000.The number of people giving up and moving abroad was 343,000 making a figure of net immigration of 250,000,which is the figure they always give out not the true figure of 582,000.
"in addition 600,000 national insurance numbers were given to non British nationals who wanted to work in the country,an 11% rise on the previous year.About a third went to Eastern Europeans."
So thats 582,000 + 690,000 = 1million 272 thousand people allowed to come into the country last year alone.Thats without illegal immigrants and the hundreds of thousands of student visas given out each year both of whom take jobs.It makes no sense,when you already have 2.8 million unemployed and about the same on sickness benefit.With more jobs being lost than created,it must mean hundreds of thousands of these immigrants are going on the dole or they are taking the jobs of people already here,putting them on the dole.Politicians always say they fill jobs British workers cant or will not do.Well virtually every other country educates and give the skills necessary their own citizens but as figures show its quicker and cheaper to import this cheap more easily exploited labour.
Not the immigrants fault.
"in addition 690,000 national insurance numbers were given out.....
Ive never blame the immigrants.........................I blame the people that leave the "door open"
As confirmation of how big business and government government work together for their mutal benefit, look out for the big story breaking tomorrow.Cameron treasurer asking for cash donations from businessmen for influence over government policy.
Familiar story on 5 live now....ordinary bloke starts by trying a Fobt with a pound.Becomes addicted and loses everything.Then sells everything he has AND loses that.Hits rock bottom,tries to commit suicide and is only saved by gamblers anonymous.
Strange we never read those type of stories in the Post.
Strange we never read those type of stories in the Post.
Never really listen to Radio online. Am I able to listen to the show on here?
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