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elise
17 Oct 11 18:29
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Date Joined: 04 Jan 03
| Topic/replies: 41,963 | Blogger: elise's blog
17 Oct 2011 17:55
Statement from the BHA Board Meeting







The Board of the British Horseracing Authority (BHA) today met with representatives of the Professional Jockeys Association (PJA) and listened to their proposals for adjustments to the new Rules and guidelines on the use of the whip in horseracing.

The Authority’s Review of the use of the whip in horseracing was undertaken over ten months by an expert working group involving widespread consultation and evidence gathering from stakeholders across the sport and more widely including animal welfare organisations and the general public.

The Board has today reiterated its endorsement of the principles behind the review. The new Rules, adopted by the Authority, received widespread support from across the industry.

Any change to regulations must be carefully considered and subject to due process. This means that appropriate evidence needs to be reviewed and there will need to be engagement with other relevant parties. The Board has directed the Review Group to undertake this process and report back by no later than the end of the week.

Until any changes are made, the current rules will continue to apply.

The Board would like to thank the PJA for taking the time to attend this meeting and for their constructive engagement and commitment to work for the best outcome for British Racing. The Board and Review group will continue to liaise with the PJA in the coming days.



Notes to Editors:


Because of the regulatory nature of this issue and the need to ensure due process is fairly conducted the Board will make no further comment on this process until the Review Group has reported back.

The initial Review document - Responsible Regulation: a Review of the use of the whip in Horseracing - can be found at this link: http://www.britishhorseracing.com/whip-review/

Members of the BHA Board are:


•Paul Roy (Chairman)
•Justin Wadham
•John Bridgeman
•Morag Gray
•Ben Gunn
•Nicholas Jones
•Bill Farnsworth
•Mark Johnston






For more information contact:


Paul Struthers
British Horseracing Authority
t:0207 152 0166
m:07966 590105
e: pstruthers@britishhorseracing.com
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Report OnTheSnaff • October 17, 2011 7:09 PM BST
johnsonhoughton Eve Johnson Houghton
So glad the BHA have a sense of urgency. Next they will be saying "don't want to have a knee jerk reaction...." They need to sort it now!
15 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
Retweeted by mbradburne
Report OnTheSnaff • October 17, 2011 7:10 PM BST
martinjlane martin lane
@
@mickfitzg personally I think we should of striked today to let them see we mean business! To keep the new Rules goin for another week is a
9 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
Report Slim Pickens • October 17, 2011 7:10 PM BST
right i am stopping betting on horses until the BC, feck em you lot can do what you want but I am no longer gonna help line the pockets of the people who are killing the sport I love.


if we all did the same Roy and Struthers would be gone by the end of the week FACT
Report OnTheSnaff • October 17, 2011 7:11 PM BST
donaldmccain Donald Mccain
Surprise surprise no decision today!
5 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
Report 1st time poster • October 17, 2011 7:12 PM BST
racing in crisis, do me a favour,british racing just had its most succesful day for years despite 2 jockeys not managing to stay within the rules unlike another 40 odd on the same card, seems the obvious answer is ban the whip,because whatever number between 1 and 20 they come up with,some jockeys will always give them an extra one,ive written the jocks a nice placard for their strike,
were on strike because i cant beat a dumb horse more than 5 times with a stick in a couple of seconds, Blush
Report egner • October 17, 2011 7:13 PM BST
personally i would be happy with that 11KV.......i realise others will not be...but in the longer term it is going to come so why not just get it over with....

..a rather underhand way of doing this though.
Report councillor • October 17, 2011 7:13 PM BST
the problem the BHA face now is that if they revert back someone will have to fall on thier sword and reign. I expect no one is willing to do that hence the status quo.
Report big dunc • October 17, 2011 7:14 PM BST
i'd join in Slim but i'm a compulsive gambler
Report elise • October 17, 2011 7:14 PM BST
bha out, no confidence, get rid
Report Slim Pickens • October 17, 2011 7:15 PM BST
how can you ban the whip in this country only? its a global game if they do that how can any of our horses go to dubai, Hong Kong, Canada, US or Australia? The sheiks will fecking love that....
Report 11kv • October 17, 2011 7:15 PM BST
Thats the BHA though isnt it could not organise a p izz up in a brewery

Things arent always what they seem in racing are they.....................
Report TheAnorak • October 17, 2011 7:15 PM BST
I really like the phrase 'the new rules, adopted by the suthority'.

Sort of suggests they found them by contacting social services and asking if they had any sets of rules looking for a good home.
Report Slim Pickens • October 17, 2011 7:16 PM BST
punt on summit else big dunc i will be and theres always the yank stuff
Report patsyone • October 17, 2011 7:17 PM BST
so with the out come as expected as HUGHES given up for good or done a U TURN
Report OnTheSnaff • October 17, 2011 7:17 PM BST
Trotternicholls Adrian Nicholls
Can I now go on the dole now I am banned and they took my money o yea and were does that go #mustbeneverneverland
3 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
Report Slim Pickens • October 17, 2011 7:22 PM BST
can anyone answer my question about banning the whip altogether? how can you take a 3 year old thats never felt a whip in the heat of battle and race it against others that have?
Report pedrobob • October 17, 2011 7:28 PM BST
if this BHA board had been in charge of the Birmingham Six appeal, do you think they would still be in prison?
Report egner • October 17, 2011 7:30 PM BST
..dont race them slim.....lets not pretend the insular world of UK racing is clamouring to go globetrotting around the world....some do but the majority dont.
Report Stake & Chips • October 17, 2011 7:32 PM BST
Lose all of the Shake's horses then.

The amount of cash that they have been bankrolling the industry with for years disappears.

Racing in UK finished within 10 years.
Report big dunc • October 17, 2011 7:33 PM BST
next summer i could see foreign trainers and owners not coming over the the UK if this rule stayed the same, Royal Ascot could be ruined by it
Report elise • October 17, 2011 7:36 PM BST
for me this isn't really about the whip anymore, it's just highlighted everything that is wrong with the bha
Report GEORGE.B • October 17, 2011 7:38 PM BST
In a statement, the BHA said that "any change to regulations must be carefully considered and subject to due process" and that the new rules would remain in place in the interim.


Didn't Paul Roy said to Nick Luck on Saturday that changes could be made on Monday, if they wanted to?
Report GEORGE.B • October 17, 2011 7:38 PM BST
*say to
Report pedrobob • October 17, 2011 7:39 PM BST
Struthers also said could change today if wanted
Report LuckyLucan • October 17, 2011 7:39 PM BST
Racing is now virtually bankrupt. As the bookmaking industry gradually reduces its contribution to the levy the only alternative source of income we could have relied on, i.e. the Tote, is now in the hands of a private individual who will be aiming to syphon off the best bits for his own coffers.

Paul Roy is responsible for this dreadful state of affairs.
Report unbiased • October 17, 2011 7:40 PM BST
On the same subject as the WHIP,the assistant starter is only allowed to crack the longtom in order to get one not lining up in a NH race to jump off.At home the trainer,or head lad would give them a sharp one round the hocks.Not allowed to be seen by the public or media as they would be crying cruelty to animals.There wouldn't be many,like now refusing to line up,just a short sharp reminder,getting the horses into good habits.
  I was caned at school and it taught me to behave,and more importantly,I didn't hold it against the head.
  Public perception is just that,not fact ,just perception.
Report Slim Pickens • October 17, 2011 7:40 PM BST
egner are you for real? have you any idea how much money these guys put into the sport? are you really going to turn around and virtually say to em that the ARC the BC ect dont matter? Racing is more global than ever ffs Brian Ellison is taking horses to th MC, Richard Guest sold a horse in Keenland he bought here for 30k for 1.6m US dollars, if the BHA ban the whip it will end the sport of flat racing in this country
Report elise • October 17, 2011 7:40 PM BST
it's around about way george of saying they don't have a feckin clue and that they have suddenly realised that there is alot more to race riding than sitting in large leather chairs swilling port and smoking cigars
Report egner • October 17, 2011 7:42 PM BST
no...it will not end the sport slim.
Report 1st time poster • October 17, 2011 7:44 PM BST
on this forum its a hard act but ive never read so much **** in all my life,slim wondering about world wide rules, he,s a question you can ask all foreign trainers at the breeders cup,
you can have one but not both of the following,
one extra crack wiv the whip
or
race on latex
how many do you think will go for the former, racings rules and interpretations are different the world over
Report GEORGE.B • October 17, 2011 7:47 PM BST
Latex? Shocked

*Lasix
Report 1st time poster • October 17, 2011 7:48 PM BST
[;)]
Report Stake & Chips • October 17, 2011 7:48 PM BST
Run on latex, bigger chance of being suspended.
Report Slim Pickens • October 17, 2011 7:49 PM BST
so a 3yr old that never been whipped and goes to Dubai and is on a level playing field?
Report Slim Pickens • October 17, 2011 7:50 PM BST
how do you know it wont go mental the first lash it gets or do u not use the whip?
Report Mr. Memory • October 17, 2011 7:52 PM BST
If you have ever read "Treasure Island", you wil know what happened to Ben Gunn.
Report Slim Pickens • October 17, 2011 7:54 PM BST
he gets left on an island i believe to fend for himself all alone....
Report Slim Pickens • October 17, 2011 7:55 PM BST
i suppose the Queen might actually stand a chance of winning the Derby but unlikely to be given a horse by a friendly arab...
Report Slim Pickens • October 17, 2011 8:00 PM BST
come on then 1st time, you're a wealthy foreign owner where are you going to send that very expensive 2 yr old you have just purchased with immpeccable 12f pedigree to train? Are you going to limit its horizons by training it in a country that set its self apart from the entire planet?
Report 1st time poster • October 17, 2011 8:09 PM BST
you take it to usa to run on or against drug fueled horses

you take it to france where for a slightest bump against a local you get threw out,in a race run at a crawl from the worst pre determined darw according to those on here

you go to ireland to race in bog deep ground,against 1 maybe 2 good horses and 20 odd crap ones

you go to the far east where winning and gambling is everything

dubai no gambling

its not looking to good is it,as stated racing is different the world over,this level playing field bollocks is just that,
Report Slim Pickens • October 17, 2011 8:12 PM BST
but the whip remains a constant EVERYWHERE, plenty horse win in the US without LA6, plenty horses win in france without incurring the wrath of the french stewards none have yet to win a international classic race without the whip to my knowledge
Report Slim Pickens • October 17, 2011 8:14 PM BST
oh and as for the gambling its the fecking sheiks i am talking about you utter plank
Report egner • October 17, 2011 8:15 PM BST
they have brought this on themselves...

http://www.animalaid.org.uk/h/n/NEWS/news_horse/ALL/2431//

SadSadSadCryCryCryCryCry
Report 1st time poster • October 17, 2011 8:21 PM BST
so they,ll race here  for
crap prize money
boring low grade racing
watered ground
rundown stands
jobsworths at everyturn

but will stop coming because their horse can get an extra slap in france,seems a strange logic for people who allegedly love their horses
Report Slim Pickens • October 17, 2011 8:23 PM BST
are you fecking kidding me did you see cape blanco in the US, its always about the fecking money, horse lovers maybe but its all about the bread and the breeding
Report pedrobob • October 17, 2011 8:24 PM BST
very disappointing that the BHA statement did not even offer anything about what they discussed today and what options were put on the table.

Did they consider reinstating the old rules until the new review was complete?
Report Stake & Chips • October 17, 2011 8:26 PM BST
Seems pretty likely that the BHA have given certain assurances to RSPCA / Animal Aid regarding their intentions re whip rules.

Almost impossible for them to backtrack now...
Report egner • October 17, 2011 8:28 PM BST
Almost impossible for them to backtrack now...

...with a report like the above Stake so it should be impossible for them to backtrack.
Report Slim Pickens • October 17, 2011 8:29 PM BST
but they cannot ban it in my view without totally fecking the sport in this country
Report Slim Pickens • October 17, 2011 8:35 PM BST
they are totally fcuking up a sport over a public reaction to a race that has no frame of reference anywhere else in the world and we hold the moral high ground??
Report egner • October 17, 2011 8:37 PM BST
..are you ignoring the almost 900 breaches in a year that relate to the OLD rules slim
Report salmon spray • October 17, 2011 8:40 PM BST
The horses are hit with an air-cushioned stick ffs. Roy should tell Animal Aid whoever they are ( renge ? ) to eff off.
Report guinness2dear • October 17, 2011 8:41 PM BST
In short jerky moments. And take 'tree hugger' Alice from Berkshire with him..
Report quay_street • October 17, 2011 8:42 PM BST
Why are they even giving assurances to these bodies in the first place?

Look at it in black and white terms; the problem is the Grand National. So be it...discontinue the Grand National.

But to go and tinker with mainstream racing and fundamentally change the way horses are ridden all in the interests of "leadership" in the animal welfare sphere...and when all is said and done, to be advocating a different approach to riding compared to Ireland, France, Canada, USA, Argentina, Spain then the BHA are seriously out of touch with commercial realities.

Between the BHA and the bookmakers acting the fools on the Levy, it is the beginning of the end for Racing in the UK.

The animal rights people are the only ones who are getting what they want.
Report 1st time poster • October 17, 2011 8:42 PM BST
screens round horses at aintree
dettori hitting 24 bells out of rewilding
carnage at cheltenham festival
deaths at sedgefield
spencer hitting bells out of cape blanco
jockeys punching horses
jockeys wacking horses at the start
horses electrocuted at newbury
mcoy laying into synchronised for 3 circuts at uttox 

are you getting the drift, are you keeping  up ,not mine but the publics perception and worrys about racing ,and you are screaming and shouting wether it should be 5,6 or 7 cracks
Report brigust1 • October 17, 2011 8:42 PM BST
900 breaches from how many 100,000 rides? And how many are for excesive. Less than third. The rest are hitting in the wrong place and not allowing time to respond. Nothing like a bit of mis-information.

The UK will never be the first to ban the whip. Another major country will have to be first. And ffs they cant even make a decision about the current debacle.
Report egner • October 17, 2011 8:43 PM BST
not "air cushioned" enough to stop many horses being wealed salmon......

http://www.animalaid.org.uk/h/n/NEWS/news_horse/ALL/2431//

(table A)

...and if i were a member of that org i would be proud.
Report Slim Pickens • October 17, 2011 8:45 PM BST
nobody gave a feck about them cos in general no one was watching, 2 horses lie prone in the nations favourite (says a lot about us and our "love" for the animals imo) and theres an outrage, yet they blame the whip, not the size of the fences, the extreme distance or the 40 or so runners, ffs it the race that is cruel and unnecessary not the whip, people have been using whips since the first horse was tamed
Report Slim Pickens • October 17, 2011 8:49 PM BST
lets face it the USA has to ban it and that looks a very dim and distant prospect.....
Report snogthedog • October 17, 2011 8:50 PM BST
egner  if your opinion to the old whip rules are based on
animal aids vegetarian animal are people too   sandal wearing must get out in the real worlds views      you really should stop betting and watching horse racing .
Report Slim Pickens • October 17, 2011 8:52 PM BST
i wouldnt mind a bit if a world wide ban came in but for us to do it in isolation would be calamitous to our game in the UK
Report salmon spray • October 17, 2011 8:55 PM BST
Animal Aid are a propaganda group who quite clearly would love to see horse racing banned. They are NOT elected by anybody. They are a lobby group of cranks.
Report egner • October 17, 2011 8:55 PM BST
snoghtedog......

do you really think it is such a strange and outragous position to take to say in the year 2011 that it would be better all round if horseracing did without whips..!!!!

racing would still take place....a level playing field.....still competitve, perhaps more so...
Report egner • October 17, 2011 8:57 PM BST
neither are the BHA elected salmon.......or the jockeys....or the owners.......

since when should the democracy or structure of an organistaion take precence over animal welfare...???
Report Slim Pickens • October 17, 2011 8:57 PM BST
i have met some of these animal rights people egner and they are mostly clueless and at best idealists, at worst they are fanatics...
Report salmon spray • October 17, 2011 8:59 PM BST
You don`t get it do you renge ? They want anything that IN THEIR OPINION exploits animals banned. The whip is a 1st step to getting rid of racing.
Report snogthedog • October 17, 2011 8:59 PM BST
simple answer
yes ..  as for competitive have you watch racing in the last
week.
Report LuckyLucan • October 17, 2011 9:01 PM BST
First Time Poster, it's easy to list a catalogue of unfortunate incidents but to get things in perspective how about doing a list of other sports eh?

For example

Racing driver killed
Footballers stretchered off field
Rugby Player breaks neck
Footballers fighting
Ninetyfive football fans die
Corruption in cricket
Ice Dance competitor has leg broken by fellow competitor
and on, and on and.....
Report egner • October 17, 2011 9:03 PM BST
...i disagree salmon.........hundreds of thousands...millions..just in this country let alone the world like horseracing....

...on what possible reasonable basis could it ever be banned......the horses are not whipped and aside from the odd breakdown or accidents or fall over fences ( which could happen just as easily if they are in their paddocks) the welfare would be a non issue....
Report snogthedog • October 17, 2011 9:04 PM BST
we are talking about animal rights activists
some of there ilk in the past have dug up dead bodies
and set parts to the dead peoples relatives .
if they had there way animals would get the vote
.   that might not be a bad idea thinking of it
Report salmon spray • October 17, 2011 9:05 PM BST
Because these people think that using animals for commercial purposes is exploiting them.
Report egner • October 17, 2011 9:06 PM BST
lucky......you miss the point totally......

your examples all involve humans....who have the intelligence and rationale to decide for themselves the extent to which they expose themselves to risk........

horses have no such choice....they are reliant for thier welfare upon the humans to which their welfare is entrusted.
Report guinness2dear • October 17, 2011 9:06 PM BST
The only reason monkeys don't talk is because some bright spark would make them work 60 hours a week on minimum wage..
Report elise • October 17, 2011 9:09 PM BST
renge, genuine question, given your concerns with racing why are you betting on it?
Report LuckyLucan • October 17, 2011 9:10 PM BST
egner, if I was a horse and you gave me the choice of a couple of cracks of the whip once a month in return for food, stabling, a clean bed, full veterinary care, daily grooming, nice breaks in a grassy field, a retirement at stud or the alternative being that I wasn't conceived in the first place because there was no need for a racehorse, then I know what I'd choose.
Report snogthedog • October 17, 2011 9:10 PM BST
we are also talking about people who fully believe animals
are more important than people.
Report Gerry Gallbladder • October 17, 2011 9:13 PM BST
LL - but given a choice of no cracks of the whip and all those nice things, or a couple of cracks of the whip and all those nice things which would you choose then?
Report LuckyLucan • October 17, 2011 9:13 PM BST
egner, by the same token you are imposing your human views on what is best for a horse. Have you considered that they might be more than happy with their lives and if they could talk would probably tell you to "....off and mind your own business".
Report pedrobob • October 17, 2011 9:13 PM BST
that's a deep philosphical question, Lucan, asking someone before they have been born if they want to be born or not.....
Report Gerry Gallbladder • October 17, 2011 9:14 PM BST
elise - that's like asking "because your life's not perfect, why haven't you committed suicide?" Surely the optimists among us live in hope that some things can and will be changed for the better....
Report snogthedog • October 17, 2011 9:15 PM BST
plus if the horses that are monkeys (saying it kindly )
keep on running as poor as some have done in the last
week there days are numbered and without the whip
wrong or right they will.
maybe you will be happy to care for them and prevent
there next career as a tin of dog food
Report egner • October 17, 2011 9:15 PM BST
elise

....i have to admit....this subject has made me feel a little uncomfortable...

perhaps ...no i have....pushed the moral implications of whipping horse/fallers,etc to the back of my mind.....

i rarely watch a race as i am mostly a trader/maths guy and dont actively play in running, the screen is simply numbers going back and forth to me......

but of course behind the numbers are living creatures...both human and equine.....

it has..i admit...made me quite uncomfortable.
Report Gerry Gallbladder • October 17, 2011 9:18 PM BST
snogthedog

Surely the owners of these horses that are not very good will ensure that they have a long, happy and safe retirement. I mean we're constantly told about how much these 'racing' folk love their horses.....
Report LuckyLucan • October 17, 2011 9:19 PM BST
pedrobob, it's all just part of our imagination. In reality, we are all just searching for a grassy field under a blue and sunny sky.

One day, we will all realise that in comparison with race horses we suffer far more in our quest for the truth and justice.
Report snogthedog • October 17, 2011 9:21 PM BST
lets just ban racing debate over .
its all too silly for words
can i just add my best wishes and get well
soon to cathy gannon  .
good luck to all even those i disagee with.
Report LuckyLucan • October 17, 2011 9:22 PM BST
But egner, when you win money from other of your fellow human beings does it not prick your conscience of the psychological pain and suffering you could well be inflicting on them and their families? Get out now whilst you still have your sanity.
Report elise • October 17, 2011 9:28 PM BST
i don't agree with abuse of animals either renge, my issue isn't the rules so much as the people trying to manage the sport (badly)

if in this day and age they believe the right thing to do is change laws then ok i can accept that, but i'd expect that whatever they introduce is thought through, tested, sensible and workable

i don't believe these changes are any of those things, i'd hope that with the right process they will resolve the issue, but for me it shows how poor our governing body are
Report Gerry Gallbladder • October 17, 2011 9:34 PM BST
This whole sorry episode highlights how shambolic and divided British 'racing' is; none of the prime movers and shakers - BHA, jockeys and trainers - emerge with any credit whatsoever.
Report egner • October 17, 2011 9:35 PM BST
i agree elise....i guess counting hits from the furlong pole...in the heat of battle is unworkable....

..but the the old rules were being flouted and in some cases simply ignored.......and the shambolic BHA didnt seem interested in enforcing them robustly anyway for whatever reason........

not sure what the answer is but am pretty sure they will not revert to the old rules unless the peanalties for breaking them are increased to draconian levels.
Report Slim Pickens • October 17, 2011 9:37 PM BST
then join the strike and get a more effective governing body brother egner, this stramash is just one in a litany of poorly handled affairs its time for heads to roll imo
Report Slim Pickens • October 17, 2011 9:39 PM BST
if paul roy was a king of old his giblets would be scattered to the 4 corners of the kingdom years ago, he will however get a juicy pension and a golden handshake....
Report Dr Gonzo • October 17, 2011 10:19 PM BST
...on what possible reasonable basis could it ever be banned......

Because they believe horse racing itself is inherently wrong - read their mission statement ffs

They won't stop until they get what they want. I fully support looking after the welfare of horses, and other animals, but if you keep giving into these people, there'll be no sport left.
Report Steamship • October 17, 2011 10:46 PM BST
This could have been dealt with by now, even I am willing the BHA to say 6 hits and no more and you get 5 day ban no matter what race. Someone has to move on this debate. What you do is tell Animal Aid to f.. off. Why dont the whole lot trainers, owners, jockeys strike bring racing to a holt for an indefinite period, form a new board and deal with the racecourses themselves. Why are rich and powerful owners allowing this to be run by goons.
Report Gerry Gallbladder • October 17, 2011 10:50 PM BST
Paul Roy, a rich and powerful owner, is one of the goons you refer to at the BHA.
Report elise • October 17, 2011 10:51 PM BST
betfair shareholder too gerry  :)
Report Gerry Gallbladder • October 17, 2011 10:52 PM BST
Life has a way of balancing things out eh elise!
Report brigust1 • October 17, 2011 10:52 PM BST
The problem is the BHA have claimed the moral high ground. They may be completely wrong but now they have determined what they think is acceptable they will be unable to reverse their decision. Anything else is, because of their decision, abuse.

Any jockey wanting more will appear to be not putting the horse first and the same applies to the owners.
Report Steamship • October 17, 2011 11:04 PM BST
Not in the same leagues as the sheikhs eh Gerry
Report Gerry Gallbladder • October 17, 2011 11:07 PM BST
No but then who is. His ownership CV is not too shabby though......

He is a keen racehorse owner, with a number of horses currently in training with Jeremy Noseda, Ed Dunlop, Richard Hannon, George Baker, Ann Duffield and Jim Boyle. His best-known winners are Sarava (Belmont Stakes), Dutch Art (Middle Park Stakes, Norfolk Stakes, Prix Mornay), Sixties Icon (St Leger), Wilko (Breeders Cup Juvenile) Canford Cliffs (Sussex Stakes, St James Palace Stakes, Irish 2000 Guineas), Fleeting Spirit (July Cup). He also has a small breeding operation.
Report Slim Pickens • October 18, 2011 7:53 AM BST
anyone seen 1st class loser?
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