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We've all heard about the new whip rules, we've debated them on here, we've discussed it, we've seen them in action, we've read about them, we've listened to what others have to say and we've seen more bad publicity for racing because of them.
However, there is a chance, just a small chance, that if this Forum can agree a stance, then we might be able to make our voice heard and influence this debate at a higher level.
To this end I invite all forumites to vote on this matter.
We could then be able to state someting along the lines of...
"The Betfair Forum has discussed the whip issue and believes that....A, B, C, D or E, etc"
HOW IT WORKS.
Please vote for either A, B, C, D or E. (One vote per forumite only)
A = Revert to the previous rules (Even if you don't know what they were)
B = Continue with the new rules and allow everyone to get used to them.
C = Do away with the whip altogether
D = Don't know/No Opinion/ Don't Care
E = Other (please state your reason in 1 short paragraph)
VOTING IS OPEN UNTIL 10pm ON SATURDAY 15th OCT. This should give ample time for interested forumites to vote.
If we get over 100 votes then this could be interpreted as reflecting the views of the Forum. (Possibly ?)
If this is successful then I will send letters stating the outcome to all interested parties in the hope that our views will be considered.
I don't know if this will work, it may not, BUT at least we can try.
PLEASE CAST YOUR VOTE NOW ON THIS THREAD.
One vote per forumite, multiple votes not counted.
Can i ask that we do not enter into debate on this thread, there are plenty of other threads if you wish to further discuss - Thanks,
I WILL ENDEAVOUR TO TOTAL ALL THE SCORES AND WORK OUT PERCENTAGES FOR EACH OPTION AFTER THE VOTE CLOSES.
Have your say, vote now!
Regards,
JBNAY
However, there is a chance, just a small chance, that if this Forum can agree a stance, then we might be able to make our voice heard and influence this debate at a higher level.
To this end I invite all forumites to vote on this matter.
We could then be able to state someting along the lines of...
"The Betfair Forum has discussed the whip issue and believes that....A, B, C, D or E, etc"
HOW IT WORKS.
Please vote for either A, B, C, D or E. (One vote per forumite only)
A = Revert to the previous rules (Even if you don't know what they were)
B = Continue with the new rules and allow everyone to get used to them.
C = Do away with the whip altogether
D = Don't know/No Opinion/ Don't Care
E = Other (please state your reason in 1 short paragraph)
VOTING IS OPEN UNTIL 10pm ON SATURDAY 15th OCT. This should give ample time for interested forumites to vote.
If we get over 100 votes then this could be interpreted as reflecting the views of the Forum. (Possibly ?)
If this is successful then I will send letters stating the outcome to all interested parties in the hope that our views will be considered.
I don't know if this will work, it may not, BUT at least we can try.
PLEASE CAST YOUR VOTE NOW ON THIS THREAD.
One vote per forumite, multiple votes not counted.
Can i ask that we do not enter into debate on this thread, there are plenty of other threads if you wish to further discuss - Thanks,
I WILL ENDEAVOUR TO TOTAL ALL THE SCORES AND WORK OUT PERCENTAGES FOR EACH OPTION AFTER THE VOTE CLOSES.
Have your say, vote now!
Regards,
JBNAY
Show More
A. racing cannot afford to lose anymore punter,s and until this is reversed i,m out.
E - the old rules clearly needed changing, Brigust and Diamond Joe make salient points
D
Pleasant surprise to see horse racing discussed on here though
Pleasant surprise to see horse racing discussed on here though
A
When jockeys say and belivie things like: I'd rather finish 2nd that get banned...You know the law has to go.
....
absolutely BIZZARE...Jockeys would rather lose than get banned WOW.
what ever happened to our previous gripe of NON TRIERS.
When jockeys say and belivie things like: I'd rather finish 2nd that get banned...You know the law has to go.
....
absolutely BIZZARE...Jockeys would rather lose than get banned WOW.
what ever happened to our previous gripe of NON TRIERS.
E. Electrify the whips. When it is used more than five times, the jockey gets an electric shock 
C
Racing would still be a fantastic sport, the only difference would be an increased emphasis on jockey skill, tactical ability & horsemanship. I don't go around hitting my dog with a stick, so why is it OK to strike a horse with a whip in the name of my entertainment? Having said that, jump racing on firm ground is far worse than the whip & there'd still be more racing than anyone can hope to watch/study if it was done away with.
Racing would still be a fantastic sport, the only difference would be an increased emphasis on jockey skill, tactical ability & horsemanship. I don't go around hitting my dog with a stick, so why is it OK to strike a horse with a whip in the name of my entertainment? Having said that, jump racing on firm ground is far worse than the whip & there'd still be more racing than anyone can hope to watch/study if it was done away with.
Magoo.
E
But only using
PROFESSIONAL STEWARDS
Each race should be treated independently on it's own merit.
But only using
PROFESSIONAL STEWARDS
Each race should be treated independently on it's own merit.
A
I want to watch the horses race and jump, I dont want to watch how many times the jockeys are using the whip.
or
E
Rename the whip as a horse tickler and watch the new cohorts of race goers spew through the gates.
I want to watch the horses race and jump, I dont want to watch how many times the jockeys are using the whip.
or
E
Rename the whip as a horse tickler and watch the new cohorts of race goers spew through the gates.
a but if you use the whip too much you get thrown out dosnt matter if its the derby or a class 6 handicap on a cold january at wolverhampton
B or C (probably B)
Definitely not A
----------------------------------
Harry Bentley rode a brilliant race on Oetzi on Monday. He and connections were cheated out of victory, by what looked like deliberate breaking of the rules by Kieren Fox, on the winner in a photo.
And connections of Lexington Pearl could have been cheated out of a great debut victory tonight,
if Richard Hughes rule-breaking had resulted in the horse gaining another yard.
Wonder if amateur Sam Waley Cohen was deprived of a Gold Cup / National double by hitting his horse a dozen times less than the semi-conscious Ballabriggs was hit, after the last fence? We'll never know?
I know nothing about the scientifics of the whip and what (damage) it does (unlike the hundreds of 'experts', who seem to have appeared on the Forum this week), but I hate nothing more in Horse Racing, than a jockey breaking the rules and cheating, to gain a winning advantage over a law-abiding rider.
Jockeys, connections and even us punters lose out and I'm glad somethings being done about it.
Definitely not A
----------------------------------
Harry Bentley rode a brilliant race on Oetzi on Monday. He and connections were cheated out of victory, by what looked like deliberate breaking of the rules by Kieren Fox, on the winner in a photo.
And connections of Lexington Pearl could have been cheated out of a great debut victory tonight,
if Richard Hughes rule-breaking had resulted in the horse gaining another yard.
Wonder if amateur Sam Waley Cohen was deprived of a Gold Cup / National double by hitting his horse a dozen times less than the semi-conscious Ballabriggs was hit, after the last fence? We'll never know?
I know nothing about the scientifics of the whip and what (damage) it does (unlike the hundreds of 'experts', who seem to have appeared on the Forum this week), but I hate nothing more in Horse Racing, than a jockey breaking the rules and cheating, to gain a winning advantage over a law-abiding rider.
Jockeys, connections and even us punters lose out and I'm glad somethings being done about it.
A How can we have a sport which is funded by gambling where jockeys return from a race saying I could have won but was unable to do so.How many horses have come back 'marked'in the previous year.If vets report a horse marked by the whip then throw
the book at a jockey-but don't penalise him for trying too hard!
the book at a jockey-but don't penalise him for trying too hard!
if only the BHA done there research properly.
I go with A & E old rules but when abuse of the whip occurs give them harsh penalties...
I'm not betting on UK racing again under these woeful rules let alone turn up to a racecourse to get ripped off by jockeys not being able perform for me when my hard earned cash is layed out.
I go with A & E old rules but when abuse of the whip occurs give them harsh penalties...
I'm not betting on UK racing again under these woeful rules let alone turn up to a racecourse to get ripped off by jockeys not being able perform for me when my hard earned cash is layed out.
disqualify the horse simples (let the employed persons keep their fees/percentages)
E
Not much wrong with old rules but harsher penalties for whip abuse needed to be brought in. The BHA cocked up massively by bringing in these ridiculous rules. The PJA bigwigs also need to be whipped for seemingly failing to reflect the views of its members. By the sound of it, hardly any jockeys actually think this is a good idea. And hitting them in the pocket is wrong.
Agree with byrne1. No more bets for me in Britain until they sort this out.
Not much wrong with old rules but harsher penalties for whip abuse needed to be brought in. The BHA cocked up massively by bringing in these ridiculous rules. The PJA bigwigs also need to be whipped for seemingly failing to reflect the views of its members. By the sound of it, hardly any jockeys actually think this is a good idea. And hitting them in the pocket is wrong.
Agree with byrne1. No more bets for me in Britain until they sort this out.
E
keep the new maximum hits, but do away with the last furlong/last fence confusion
keep the new maximum hits, but do away with the last furlong/last fence confusion
too many rules , back to normal , take action where appropriate as before ,as happened with the national . only 8 calls to B.B.C.from millions of viewers world wide .rules are hurting every aspect of the racing game at present , all problems brought on by jockeys , rules say they should get best placing for their mount ,without damaging the sport , or the horses . mistakes have been made and need corrected ,no person will gamble heavily or trade at present ,, back to credability all round to save a game that is in intensive care , since changes ,,need to act NOW BHA ASAP OR JOB LOSSES ON THE WAY ....................................................A for me ASAP good luck with your thread well done .
B
Because it is great to see Horses not being thrashed from two furlongs out , all the way to the line .
The new penalties are causing all the trouble ,should start at two days then and four days for second offence and no riding fee
or other financial penalty should be imposed imo
Because it is great to see Horses not being thrashed from two furlongs out , all the way to the line .
The new penalties are causing all the trouble ,should start at two days then and four days for second offence and no riding fee
or other financial penalty should be imposed imo
B as I think its too early to judge the new rules just because a jockey has quickly spit the dummy out.
A but also professional stewards who are not allowed to take alcoholic drinks during the day also stronger penalties for persistant offenders just give the horse a bit of time rather than rat a tat tat .
E...with 11-15 5 day ban... over 15 2months + horse loses race.
A lets return to proper racing i dont like seeing horses being hit when no chance of winning but to have a limit is ridiculous these are highly skilled horsemen riding RACEHORSES A P'sride on WICHITA LINEMAN was voted ride of the year
E - 5 strikes in the final furlong is arbitrary and likely to cause problems; just set a total for the race. Trainers as well as jockeys should lose their share of the prize money if there is a whip infringement. Stewards need to apply common sense as to whether a whip strike is "encouragement" or "correction".
E-sit down with senior jocks,both codes,and come up with a solution
everyone agrees with.Nobody can complain then.
everyone agrees with.Nobody can complain then.
E
No decision should be made in interests of punters or jockeys. This should be purely about what is best for the horse. It is the horse that makes the sport what it is. The BHA should present an ultimatum to the jockeys that you either accept the present rules or you don't hit the horse at all. If they want to strike over it let them do it - if the sport is held together purely by the number of times a jockey hits a horse with a whip it isn't worth fighting for.
No decision should be made in interests of punters or jockeys. This should be purely about what is best for the horse. It is the horse that makes the sport what it is. The BHA should present an ultimatum to the jockeys that you either accept the present rules or you don't hit the horse at all. If they want to strike over it let them do it - if the sport is held together purely by the number of times a jockey hits a horse with a whip it isn't worth fighting for.
it must be A if they want racing to continue as a funded sport.
B.
the new rules still mean you can hit the horse 5 times in the final furlong which is fair enough
the new rules still mean you can hit the horse 5 times in the final furlong which is fair enough
A
New rules are a joke, there is no cruelty issue just a perception issue.
New rules are a joke, there is no cruelty issue just a perception issue.
A
If a footballer injured an opponent
when tackling and fouling them.Would it be
fair to stop their wages
If a footballer injured an opponent
when tackling and fouling them.Would it be
fair to stop their wages
E.
I think they should allow them 3 more strokes each which should more than compensate for those jockeys who think getting one or two more into them would have made the difference between victory or defeat and help the jockeys who can't count.
I found it strange that if you hit a horse 6 times below shoulder you get a bigger ban than a jockey who uses his whip 5 times above shoulder, like Fallon and his clones Turner, Milkshake and Catlin.
I agree with harsher punishments to eliminate the win at all costs attitude for big races.
I think they should allow them 3 more strokes each which should more than compensate for those jockeys who think getting one or two more into them would have made the difference between victory or defeat and help the jockeys who can't count.
I found it strange that if you hit a horse 6 times below shoulder you get a bigger ban than a jockey who uses his whip 5 times above shoulder, like Fallon and his clones Turner, Milkshake and Catlin.
I agree with harsher punishments to eliminate the win at all costs attitude for big races.
Pretty much the same as Betfair Feedback users voting.
Nothing needs to change the risks are managed well as they are: 70%
Nothing needs to change the risks are managed well as they are: 70%
A and bring back capital punishment for the PC brigade !
C
A is going back to the days of millionaire jocks ignoring the whip rules when a big race comes up, a la Dettori on Rewilding beating So You Think.SYT would've won if Dettori had played by the rules, I'm pretty certain.
Surely we don't want that.
A is going back to the days of millionaire jocks ignoring the whip rules when a big race comes up, a la Dettori on Rewilding beating So You Think.SYT would've won if Dettori had played by the rules, I'm pretty certain.
Surely we don't want that.
vol n oven....
i am in the "C" camp and strongly resent the accusation of being politically correct......
..i strongly disagree that i am politically correct simply because in the year 2011 i find the thought of creatures being hit in the name of sport unacceptable.
..and a final thought.....perhaps if the jockeys had adhered to the rules in the first place they may have been able to keep them....now its out of their hands and i for one am glad.
i am in the "C" camp and strongly resent the accusation of being politically correct......
..i strongly disagree that i am politically correct simply because in the year 2011 i find the thought of creatures being hit in the name of sport unacceptable.
..and a final thought.....perhaps if the jockeys had adhered to the rules in the first place they may have been able to keep them....now its out of their hands and i for one am glad.
A how can you hit a horse 7 times over a 5f race and only be allowed to hit a horse 8 times over a 4m race i think some sort of scale for race distance would be more appropriate
A how can you hit a horse 7 times over a 5f race and only be allowed to hit a horse 8 times over a 4m race i think some sort of scale for race distance would be more appropriate
B - for a decent trial period.
And if it is generally unworkable, C.
Under no circumstances, A.
And if it is generally unworkable, C.
Under no circumstances, A.
colmacca
I dont think your allowed to vote twice
I dont think your allowed to vote twice
I've waited until 100 votes cast as i don;t want to be accused of trying to influence anybody.....
C
THE WORLD IS CHANGING, WE NEED TO CHANGE, THAT'S WHY THE RULES WERE CHANGED IN THE FIRST PLACE!
However, i will stand by and accept the view of the Forum and send letters as stated in my original post.
Only fair to give everybody until 10pm saturday night to vote, as stated, before i count the totals.
BIG Thanks to everyone so far for making their feelings known.
C
THE WORLD IS CHANGING, WE NEED TO CHANGE, THAT'S WHY THE RULES WERE CHANGED IN THE FIRST PLACE!
However, i will stand by and accept the view of the Forum and send letters as stated in my original post.
Only fair to give everybody until 10pm saturday night to vote, as stated, before i count the totals.
BIG Thanks to everyone so far for making their feelings known.
A.
Good idea,jbnay. Horseplayers (hate that word punters as I associate it with mugs) have never had a say in the sport and yet without us it cannot exist.
Good idea,jbnay. Horseplayers (hate that word punters as I associate it with mugs) have never had a say in the sport and yet without us it cannot exist.
Jbnay.. What I mean is the idea of having our opinion expressed. I don't agree with your choice of 'c'.
Have you not listened to the statements from Hughes, Turner, Buick etc? Do away with the whip and people on here will leave British racing in droves. The next step will be to fully placate the animal rights ignoramus's and ban racing altogether.
Have you not listened to the statements from Hughes, Turner, Buick etc? Do away with the whip and people on here will leave British racing in droves. The next step will be to fully placate the animal rights ignoramus's and ban racing altogether.
e (why not use a spongy, Nerf whip so that no pain could be produced?)
jbnay - Frankly, surveys do not seem to be your area of expertise. I am firmly an A voter. BUT assuming I am in the majority, how do we defend your request to vote for this option which allows the caveat "even if you dont know what they were".
blackbarn, i tried to cover all "bases" or likely responses with my survey.
Granted, it is not my area of expertise.
Your area of expertise seems to be in splitting hairs.
Over 100 forumites have responded in a reasonable manner, i realise that i could have taken legal advice about the wording of my letter and voting form, maybe i should have consulted your great self?
Having read numerous posts on this issue and realising that many of us were poles apart in our views, i simply wanted to harness the power of this Forum and agree a shared understanding in the hope that we could help shape the future of our sport.
Thanks for your contribution, i have logged your response as A.
Granted, it is not my area of expertise.
Your area of expertise seems to be in splitting hairs.
Over 100 forumites have responded in a reasonable manner, i realise that i could have taken legal advice about the wording of my letter and voting form, maybe i should have consulted your great self?
Having read numerous posts on this issue and realising that many of us were poles apart in our views, i simply wanted to harness the power of this Forum and agree a shared understanding in the hope that we could help shape the future of our sport.
Thanks for your contribution, i have logged your response as A.
Thanks to everyone who voted.
TOTAL VOTES CAST AT 10pm SATURDAY 15/10/11 WAS 107.
The outcome was as follows:-
A = 73 VOTES = 68%
B = 8 VOTES = 7%
C = 7 VOTES = 6%
D = 1 VOTE = 1%
E = 19 VOTES = 18%.
Over 2/3 of this Forum want the whip rules to revert back to as they were previously.
This Forum needs to make its voice heard more, we are a diverse collection of people who have racings best interests at heart, this was my attempt to gain agreement on an issue that many of us feel strongly about.
I will pen a letter tonight to bha, rfc & jc, who else should i send it to?
If anyone is expert in this matter then please feel free to compose a letter yourself and either post on here or message me.
My view is that the letter should be kept relatively simple and to the point.
All help is appreciated.
Regards,
JBNAY
TOTAL VOTES CAST AT 10pm SATURDAY 15/10/11 WAS 107.
The outcome was as follows:-
A = 73 VOTES = 68%
B = 8 VOTES = 7%
C = 7 VOTES = 6%
D = 1 VOTE = 1%
E = 19 VOTES = 18%.
Over 2/3 of this Forum want the whip rules to revert back to as they were previously.
This Forum needs to make its voice heard more, we are a diverse collection of people who have racings best interests at heart, this was my attempt to gain agreement on an issue that many of us feel strongly about.
I will pen a letter tonight to bha, rfc & jc, who else should i send it to?
If anyone is expert in this matter then please feel free to compose a letter yourself and either post on here or message me.
My view is that the letter should be kept relatively simple and to the point.
All help is appreciated.
Regards,
JBNAY
Sorry I missed this thread and did not vote.
good luck with your letter. How about:-
The Chairman,
Select Committee
Culture, Media and Sports
House of Commons
London
good luck with your letter. How about:-
The Chairman,
Select Committee
Culture, Media and Sports
House of Commons
London
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