Richard Hughes Kieren Fox and first to be banned under new whip

So Cecil lost the 1000 guineas cos the horse marginally interfered with the runner up. Today we have a second which was racing against a horse "on steroids" and yet the winner kept the race. How can this be fair?

BigFatBookie, another excellent post illustrating the logic of a total ban.

have said earlier the rules had to be looked at, what they have come up with is unworkable and unmanageable and brings no benefit to racing imo. rushed through to justify their excistance

15 days for that ride is bad enough, the hughes ban is probably worse. only my opinion, yours is obviously different.

it will never work in its present form, time will tell who is right or wrong

its not!

Kieren Fox and Richard Hughes are first jockeys hit by new whip rules

• Salisbury stewards punish pair for overuse

• RSPCA basically satisfied with day one of new regime


Greg Wood at Windsor
guardian.co.uk,


Kieren Fox and Richard Hughes became the first jockeys to break the British Horseracing Authority's strict new rules on the use of the whip on Monday when they were banned for 15 days and five days respectively after finishing first and third in a 10-furlong handicap at Salisbury. Both jockeys will also forfeit their share of the prize money and their riding fees.

For much of the afternoon during an eight-race card at Salisbury, and also at the race-meetings at Windsor and Yarmouth, jockeys appeared to be taking great care to stay within the new rules, which allow a maximum of seven strikes with the whip in the course of a Flat race and no more than five during the final furlong.

After a tight finish to the Bathwick Tyres Salisbury Handicap, however, Fox was found to have struck Orthodox Lad, the winner, a total of 11 times, seven of which were in the final furlong, as he got up to beat Oetzi by a short-head, with Hughes's mount, Swift Blade, another three-quarters of a length away in third. Hughes was found to have used his whip six times in the final furlong.

"I'll have to go back to school to learn how to count," Hughes said. "I knew exactly what I was doing and I was aware, I hit him down the neck for correction matters, nothing else. I rubbed him once before and he was leaning in, so I flicked him one down the neck, purely to keep him straight.

"They said you aren't allowed to use your stick as correction and I was under the impression you were allowed to do that. If I let him bump the other horse, I'd have got two days. I feel a bit hard done by as I thought it was a corrective measure and nothing else, but they said six is six."

William Nunneley, the BHA's head of stewarding, said he was "disappointed" by Fox's ban. "That's not just forgetting, that's way over the top," Nunneley said. "It's a behavioural thing that has got to change."

David Muir, an equine specialist with the RSPCA, which was consulted by the BHA over the new rules, said on Monday evening that, in his view, the first day had gone well.

"There were a lot of races today," Muir said, "and only one race where the jockeys didn't obey the rules, which to me is a good sign, though it's rather sad that one breach was so many more strikes than it should have been.

"A lot of jockeys haven't broken the rules, which clearly shows that they can work within them."

At Windsor, the card felt like a melodrama in eight acts in which the villain failed to answer his cue. A total of 78 horses went to post and came back again at various speeds, but not a single jockey breached the new limits, and at Yarmouth the story was the same.

"Obviously you've got to play by the rules and it's just not worth getting banned," William Buick, the winning jockey in last month's St Leger, said after taking the second race on Money Never Sleeps.

"It's going to be difficult on big days, but I think if we practise and keep obeying the rules, it's going to be easier for us. The jump boys have got it harder in a race like the Grand National over four and a half miles. I feel for them but, for us guys, I think we'll be OK. It's the same for everybody and the penalties are so harsh that it's really not worth getting banned."

George Baker, another of the day's winning riders, said that riders are most concerned about losing their share of prize money when they receive a whip ban.

"I think jockeys are disappointed that we weren't consulted over [forfeiting] prize money," he said. We knew it was going to be a strict new rule coming in and we've had to accept that, but financially it could be a burden.

"It's hard, but we're going to have to abide by the rules. If you do that, you won't get done. I think the stick will be seen as more of a last resort, which will suit some jockeys and not others, but hopefully I'll be all right."

Britain's jump jockeys will be riding to the new rules for the first time at Huntingdon this afternoon. They are allowed to use the whip eight times per race.

perhaps if a jockey wins a race by hitting a horse
8 times in the final furlong(3more)then the horse is
disqualified,only a thought.

The rule of eight over jumps proves how fukcing stupid the morons are at the BHA,7 times for 5F or 8 times for 30 fences and 4+ miles?[smiley:crazy][smiley:crazy][smiley:crazy]

plenty of opportunity for stroking now...unreal. 7 love taps before halfway, tail off. 7lb claimer on a mad gamble, win no matter what 30 smacks versus 7....

Richard Hughes was worried for the welfare of the horse and those around him. Whereas i think Kieren Fox on Orthodox Lad had ulterior motives to keep whipping him. I bet some are having a good laugh tonight about it  

Betting Show for Kiern Fox's Orthodox Lad:  Show from first show to the off. Opened 11/1 then timber 10/1, 9/1, 17-2, 8, 15-2,

Simple Solution to this stupid rule.

Jockeys should go on strike. the PJA can take the lead on this.

Its worked in many other countries.

The jump boys are busy practising with an abacus tonight....in the hope of counting to eight correctly....could be tough going with my experience of most of them.

The RSPCA ffs

They won't be happy until there aren't any animals, if repairing them costs more than £50 they get destroyed.

Anaglogs Daughter


have said it numerous times it wasnt that kind of ride, it wasnt even picked up on racing UK. four hits up the straight were when the horse started to drift.

He was 14s this morning with a 15p rule4

If you look at most jump races its similar to the flat, the flat boys would rarely resort to the whip until inside the 2 furlong marker, the jump boys usually only go for it between the final two flights or fences only on rare occasion will they go for their whip earlier.

just goes to show how thick jockeys are. Fergus Sweeney posted this pic of him learning the new whip rules...Shame it's 7 times http://yfrog.com/ny74gbhj

what happens when 5 or 6 of them are going for a gamble... the sport is being made a laughing stock.

Depends on the trainer involved roger, now many of us would almost rejoice if a Curley gamble failed because his horse didn't recieve an extra few smacks.

quick question.
if you owned the 2nd in this race Oetzi,would you appeal
the result as winners have broke the rules.Only done a SH.

i saw one 3m chaser get whipped 3 times just to get it off the line, come heavy ground in a low class race you'll have half the field pulled up after a curcuit

Peter Scudamore "Quote from Racing Post, Fox broke rules but arguably difference between victory and defeat .
Connections of second horse and Punters must feel aggrieved"

A Curley gamble is not going to go astray due to a lack of whipping. I'm sure the jockey on board would be amply compensated. It's probably being factored into estimated winnings as we speak

poor deenos beeno wouldnt have won a single race had this stupid rule been in place.that cant be right for the sport.

For those who did not read the full article above ...

The Key sentence from HUGHES is -

"They said you aren't allowed to use your stick as correction and I was under the impression you were allowed to do that. If I let him bump the other horse, I'd have got two days.
I feel a bit hard done by as I thought it was a corrective measure and nothing else, but they said six is six."

deanos would have been rated about 40lb below his "true" mark

Lough Derg

Anaglogs Daughter
10 Oct 11 20:11
Joined:
05 Jan 10
| Topic/replies: 12,556 | Blogger: Anaglogs Daughter's blog
Peter Scudamore "Quote from Racing Post, Fox broke rules but arguably difference between victory and defeat .
Connections of second horse and Punters must feel aggrieved"


was it really worth a 15 day ban?

did he really do it because he wanted to win at all costs and decided to break the rules to do so?

four of his hits happened a couple of furlongs out, can you really say the seven other shots was the difference between winning amd losing.

he did the crime so will have to take the punishment but it doesnt make the rules right or the punishment for that matter.

said it before...the animals rights lot only have 1 interest...end horse racing.

should never give them the time of day.

Nirnaeth Arnoediad 10 Oct 11 20:12 
A Curley gamble is not going to go astray due to a lack of whipping. I'm sure the jockey on board would be amply compensated. It's probably being factored into estimated winnings as we speak Mischief


When a professional jockey is looking at 15 days hard to compensate for such a long holiday, could be a few big races within that holiday period, maybe he'll start using apprentices and use them as fodder?

Peter Scudamore is the last person who should be a critic,he was brutal.[smiley:crazy]

Peter Scudamore

"Also Racing Post headlines worsen racings image and defeats the object of guidelines"

I don't think somehow or other Tom will be riding many more of Barney's gambles that need stoking up.

Kieren Fox "Well done to the owners  & john best glad 2 ride u a winner, but what a bad turn out ! ban fine, but food out my childs mouth #WRONG

Pinehurst Racing retweeted by Othorox Lads owners Steve Nunn Racing

Whip rules PATHETIC.Nothing offensive about Fox ride today.Rules WILL NOT work.Money down and he did what he could to win. please RT.

How are they going to interpret the must be ridden to obtain the best possible place ruling now?

Paul Struthers after what it seems going 15 rounds with a young Muhammad Ali. Tho to be fair he has took a lot of stick but stood up well to it


The whip hysteria is 2 much for me tonight. It's like we've killed Bambi, the whole cast of Watership Down and Gary Barlow in one go. G'nite

Paul Struthers after what it seems going 15 rounds with a young Muhammad Ali.

The whip hysteria is 2 much for me tonight. G'nite."
-------------------------------------------------

Poor Paul

'Heat, kitchen,' etc.

What do you think you get bloody well (pun intended) PAID for?

If you so wish - You could always hand back some of your enormous SALARY.

All the jockeys in all the races should break the rules. I reckon less than one week would fix the problem. Ignore the fanatics who know zilch or care about racing. Most of them would never even see the Grand National.

i agree arklearkle, these new measures seem way over the top.

Dane O'Neill to Willy Twiston Davies 'trying to please the people who don't go racing anyway'.#wastingourtime


Willy Twiston-davies to Dane O Neill 'waste off our time and money, the bans are to long!! Jockeys risk everything and we get our well deserved earnings taken off us!!'

The Punishment definitely doesn't fit the crime ..imo

telegraph.co.uk

It's as easy as one, two, four

The new whip rules came in only a couple of notable hiccupson Monday but there is good scientific reason why, in the heat of battle, a jockey may not reliably count to seven or eight which is nothing to do with the fact that many of them paid little attention at school or left early.

When a jockey’s or indeed anyone’s heart rate is heading up towards its peak, at 175 beats per minute plus, research has shown that the prefrontal cortex (thinking part of the brain) only works at three per cent of capacity, ie at about the same rate as an England rugby player on a night off. This is known by scientists as ‘mind blindness.’

Suffered by many on this forum AD,and that is only when they are typing.[:(]

You can put me in that category as well Scot

Cant do that AD,you have a pre frontal cortex.[;)]

Some more posts from twitter

Ben Haslam

What a joke our society has become, the whip rule a case in point, common sense has gone out of the window and given way to idiocracy

=========

Nicky Mackay

The reason I say "hard luck to Hughsie" is that it was clearly a reflex to use the whip for correction, not to break the rules to win

=========

Stan Moore

I think there needs be a meeting to sort new whip rule or top riders will only do sats and festivals sad will be lose to public and punters

=========

Kirsty Milczarek

Which other industry would get away with cutting prize money & then taking away our riding fee prize money & 15 day ban !! Ridiculous

=========

Kieren Fox

Well done to the owners  & john best glad 2 ride u a winner, but what a bad turn out ! ban fine, but food out my childs mouth #WRONG

MinervaRacing
See it didn't take long for a jock to use the "food out of my childs mouth" line #EMOTIVE


========

Sam Stronge

Horse racing in England is looking very bleak we should all be working 2gether promoting the sport,instead the authority's want 2 fight us.!

Richard Hughes and Kieren Fox are first jockeys to fall foul of new whip rules

The jockeys insisted they were trying to work within the framework of the new whip regulations, introduced to British racing on Monday, yet there were still two culprits who picked up lengthy suspensions for breaches of the rules at Salisbury.



By J A McGrath


For officials, who had been hoping for a lead from senior figures in the weighing room, there was widespread disappointment that Richard Hughes, among the most respected, had been one of the first two jockeys to have been banned, albeit for what could be interpreted as a minor transgression. He was banned for five days for exceeding the limit by one stroke.
But, at the other end of the scale, Kieren Fox felt the heavier hand of the stewards, with a 15-day suspension for hitting his mount, Orthodox Lad, a total of 11 times, including seven strokes with the whip in the final furlong of the Bathwick Tyres Salisbury Handicap.
Under the new rules, all jockeys are restricted to seven hits in a race, with no more than five in the final furlong. Fox and Hughes (who was aboard third Swift Blade) were involved in a close tussle to the line, and their actions were typical of what many jockeys had feared most in the cut and thrust of trying to win.
William Nunneley, the steward at Salisbury, said: “I was rather hoping they would understand they have got to change the way they use the whip. It’s a behavioural thing that has got to change.” He added: “I’m very disappointed we’ve had two breaches, and I’m certainly disappointed with Kieren Fox, as that’s not just forgetting, that’s way over the top.” Fox forfeited his riding fee and percentage of the winning prize money.

Jamie Stier, the British Horseracing Authority’s director of raceday operations, said: “Obviously, it’s disappointing that two jockeys failed to ride within the rules, but I’m thrilled that so many did.”


At Windsor and Yarmouth, jockeys had been exercising extreme care not to fall foul of the new whip rules. Michael Hills, the most senior riding at Windsor, said: “Every jockey is trying very hard to make it [the new regime] succeed, but I promise you the count is very hard when you get competitive. I’m working on four [hits] at the moment.” Hills won the mile-and-a-quarter handicap on Lucky Legs, flicking the filly four times with backhanders

Whip storm hits Hughes and Fox as pair are suspended for excessive use
By Marcus Townend
A jolting 15-day suspension for apprentice Kieren Fox has presented a stark example to jockeys of the harsh reality of new strict whip regulations.

Alongside Fox, banned for striking his short-head winning Salisbury mount Orthodox Lad 11 times, there was also a five-day suspension for senior colleague Richard Hughes.

Hughes finished third on Swift Blade in the same Bathwick Tyres Salisbury Handicap but was punished after exceeding the limit of five strikes in the final furlong by one.

The disciplinary action on day one of the new regulations will reinforce fears that a string of bans will occur as riders become used to their new regime.

There is also concern that the pressure and intensity of Saturday’s inaugural £3million British Champions Day at Ascot will lead to bans and unsavoury headlines at a meeting designed to show off the best of British racing.

Others, however, will argue that the weighing room has been given a sobering example of the deterrents for straying outside the rules.

Fox’s ban, accumulated because he exceeded the five strike limit in the final furlong as well as the seven-strike race maximum, will also cost him his £106.55 riding as well as his winning percentage of almost £165.

Likewise, Hughes loses his riding fee and cut of place prize-money. He argued that he had been harshly treated with one hit being down the shoulder to correct the drifting Swift Blade.

Hughes said: ‘I knew exactly what I was doing but I hit him down the neck to keep him from leaning in on the other horse. If I had let him bump the horse, I would have got two days (for careless riding).

‘The whip was used as a corrective measure, nothing else. I just feel a little hard done by but they say six is six.’
But stipendary steward William Nunneley said: ‘The penalties are there and very severe. I’m very disappointed we have had two breaches, especially with Kieren Fox. It was not just a case of a couple of extra hits – it was way over the top.
‘They have got to change. It is a behavioural thing.’

Earlier, Frankie Dettori, who has supported the new whip rules, had said he had set himself a limit of using the whip only four times to make sure he remained within the limits.

He added: ‘We are doing our best but when you have been riding one way for 25 years, it is not easy to change overnight.’

Michael Hills, successful on Lucky Legs at Windsor, added: ‘I promise you everyone in the weighing room is working very hard at it. We want to make it a success.’


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/racing/article-2047579/Kieren-Fox-Richard-H...

What position/authority had Jamie Stier in Australia and had he any part to play in the near demise of jump racing there,

William Nunneley, the steward at Salisbury, said:

“I was rather hoping they would understand they have got to change the way they use the whip. It’s a behavioural thing that has got to change.”
He added: “I’m very disappointed we’ve had two breaches, and I’m certainly disappointed with Kieren Fox, as that’s not just forgetting, that’s way over the top.”
---------------------------------------

I am far from comfortable with the TONE of his statement.

Smacks far too much of the 'bad old' days of the Jockey Club 'Us and them' dictatorial attitude.

I am so gutted about this whip rule. A good rule, in any sphere of sport or society, promotes a desirable state of affairs and discourages misbehaviour. Thus the whip rule should allow jockeys to ride proper finishes/obtain the best possible performance from a horse, without abusing the animal/taking out frustration on it/whipping it after the animal has ceased responding positively.

We are now in a situation where the new rules punish jockeys for perfectly good rides that don't even cross the boundary of acceptability, as the sport has now relinquished its right to judge where that boundary lies; judgement has been replaced with an arbitrary number, 7. How can 6 smacks of the whip within the last furlong be automatically deemed wrong, in every case, even when the final hit was for correction? If a jock has used his quota and his mount then hangs into another horse, as with Hughes, is he bound to now get 2 days for careless if he lets the collision happen, or 5 days if he tries to prevent it with the whip.

Why the rule changes? Because Ballabriggs got whipped excessively during the GN, the one race the "general public" watch, and which happens to be the most brutal race on the calendar, unrepresentative of racing in general? Racing changes its rules because for a couple of days there was a media storm in a teacup over Maguire's ride, to appease people who don't even give two hoots about the sport? It's bloody ridiculous.

Racing should have stood up for itself, pointed out that racehorses are the best looked after and loved animals on the planet, that the air cushioned whip doesn't hurt, it's the rider's means of communicating with his horse, it tells them when it's match day, when it matters, when to produce what they've been bred and trained for. Jockeys giving their all in a tight finish is one of the great sights in all sport, and we want to chuck that out of the window, because non-racing fans have the incorrect idea that the horse is in pain? Making a mockery of ourselves and hundreds of years of proud tradition, not to mention isolating ourselves from the international racing world where they don't have a hit quota.

I've only been into racing for 2-3yrs and love it, I'm young for a racing fan (31) and this is already spoiling my appetite for the sport. Jocks need to strike or something to get rid of this rubbish. Gutted

Erm, you do realise that NH jockeys are of normal height right?

Nick Scholfield

1..2..3..4..5..6......... Practising counting for later

Not sure if this has been posted

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/horse_racing/15236541.stm

The video at the bottom of the piece.
The professor says the whip does not hurt the horse.
Animal welfare groups have not stated the whip is cruel. (because it isn't)

So what the hell is this about?
"The public" doesn't like to see the whip being used.
Well the punters at Towcester were asked and they apparently were against the whip (but not see details).
The media picked up on the use of the whip in the Grand National this year.

The whip use is now limited.
Richard Hughes should appeal and he should not have been banned. He used the whip for safety reasons and that should be exempted from the count.
It will affect racing but we will have to see whether this is positive (unlikely), negative (possible), overall neutral (most likely).

What racks me off is the ban is not logical and is pandering to a few fanatics and media twisters.

Frankie Dettori has admitted he was "scared" riding under the new rules. "That was my first ride and I must say I was very aware and very scared. I spent most of the race worrying and making sure I counted them," he explained. "It will take time to adapt and I also found it very hard to distinguish if I was inside or outside the furlong marker."

It is ridiculous to expect jockeys to keep count when their concentration should be on striving to get the horse to win the race.
If the whip is cruel then ban it outright ; if not cruel then leave the rules as they were, with punishments only for flagrant over-hitters.

By Tom Kerr racingpost.com

FRANKIE DETTORI said on Tuesday that new whip rules which took effect on Monday are extremely difficult to follow in the heat of racing.

One day after Kieren Fox and Richard Hughes became the first riders to breach the whip rules, Dettori said it would take time for jockeys to adjust to the stringent new law.

"It's very, very, very hard to count the number of whips," Dettori said.

"I was trying to train myself to just get to four, but you're going at 40mph, you're looking for racing room, for gaps, so it is a lot to get used to.

"I'm actually quite surprised only two fell foul of the new rule. It will take time."

Dettori said the rule change reflected growing concern from within racing that the appearance of horses being whipped - regardless of whether it actually causes pain - was alienating non-racegoers from the sport.

"We have this perception among people who know nothing about horse racing that we are out there abusing horses," Dettori told the BBC.

"Actually our horses are looked after better than humans. We have a whip made of foam which actually doesn't hurt horses, it's to guide them and encourage them to run a little faster."

^ why do journalists( in general - not just horseracing), fall over themselves to quote 'pearls of wisdom utterances from so called experts. When all they are reporting are statements 'of the bleeding obvious' variety

The TV vultures will be circling over Ascot saturday

I'm thoroughly hacked off/bored to death it with it already.

Below is an excerpt from Monty Roberts book, full article check link

http://www.montyroberts.com/book-excerpts/the-whip-in-racing/


You so often hear the statement, “We need the whips for safety’s sake,” but, in fact, nothing could be further from the truth, because far more accidents are caused by whips than are ever averted by whips. In fact, if a jockey felt the need for a whip to guide the horse, why not use a spongy, Nerf whip so that no pain could be produced?

In a recent conversation with Trevor Denman (a race announcer at the Santa Anita race track), he said to me that he felt it would be a good idea if every time there was a disqualification, the newspaper should read that, “the horse ducked from the whip and interfered with the progress of another horse and was thus disqualified.” Trevor suggested that an extremely high percentage of disqualifications were caused by using the whip. Further, he said that if the bettors could understand that, they would be less apt to insist that jockeys use the whips to verify that they are trying.

Aside from whether it is effective or not, let us examine for a moment how we stand with the rest of the world on this issue. Nearly all the racing countries of the world are dealing with the issue of the whip in ways that suggest it will soon be obsolete. I believe Great Britain is down to five strikes now, while Sweden has restricted the use of the whip severely, and, I think, only in front of the girth. In Germany, it is interesting to note that all two-year-olds are ridden only with a soft Nerf whip, which is handed to the jockey as he leaves the weighing room. The United States is virtually the only country to fail to act on what has become an important issue to race fans the world over.

The third facet, and possibly the most important, is in the area of public perception. We, in racing, need to be pro-active. We need to realize that many potential race fans abhor the use of the whip and are turned off by our sport. What if we had whipless racing? Someone would be first, someone would be last and someone would be in the middle, exactly as it is with the whips. As for finding the genetic aptitude for racing, would you not prefer the winning horse to run out of a natural desire, rather than running from pain? And, wouldn’t we be more acceptable to our audience?
..............................................

I think monty makes an interesting point, but the difference bewteen USA racing and Britain is its virtually impossible to get chucked out for interference in Britain, for all the BHA's talk about safety their stance on interference makes very little sense, they're almost encouraging dangerous situations when deliberate interference doesn't have an automatic disqualification.

a few of us watched ATR in the pub yesterday and someone remarked that it was not like watching real racing.
he said that the jockeys were so scared of the new whip rules that half of them didn't even make a move on some horses.

another person thought that the racing was really boring and that some finishes looked like the jockeys were just on their way to the start.

personally I don't think I'll be betting again any time soon until we get proper racing back, with jockeys not afraid to try and win.

Outpost exactly what i thought. I said to myself at last it's becoming near a level playing field with the fast pic boys. After a couple of races it almost became predictable to predict the results a furlong out. I think it will suit front runners down to the ground. imo

Analogs what are the dates of Hughes's suspension?  Thanks in advance O knowlegdeable one.

Steve Nunn on ATR now, i wonder will Matt ask him What was the jockeys instruction on the gambled on 14/1-15/2 winner

Thanks for posting that silvergreaser. Good article.

Outpost & Anaglogs, the fear of the whip rules would be removed if the whip was. If they didn't make a move then, what would that mean? They were afraid of winning?

Thar ya go wee eck

Salisbury, 10 October 2011

The Stewards held an enquiry into the use of the whip by Kieran Fox, the rider of the winner, ORTHODOX LAD, in the final two furlongs. Having heard his evidence and viewed recordings of the race, they found him in breach of Schedule (B)6 Part 2 in that he used his whip with excessive frequency. As the offence warranted a suspension at the upper level, the Stewards suspended Fox for 15 days as follows: Monday 24 to Saturday 29, Monday 31 October to Saturday 5 November, and Wednesday 9 to Friday 11 November. Under Schedule (D)6 the rider shall not be entitled to a riding fee or a percentage of any prize money.

The Stewards held an enquiry into the use of the whip by Richard Hughes, the rider of SWIFT BLADE, placed third, in the final furlong. Having heard his evidence and viewed recordings of the race, they found him in breach of Schedule (B)6 Part 2 in that he used his whip with excessive frequency. As the offence warranted a suspension at the upper level the Stewards suspended Hughes for 5 days as follows: Monday 24 to Friday 28 October. Under Schedule (D)6 the rider shall not be entitled to a riding fee or a percentage of any prize money

Anaglog's you keep going on about 'gambled on' when in the prices may have simply reflected the weakness of the others in the race plus the 2nd favourite was withdrawn. The horse was the best horse in the race being top weight and the Hamdan horse went out to 20/1. If you think the bookies only shorten horses just before the off because they are gambled on I think you would be wrong.

So does that mean that the jokcey's agent and valet, who would normally get a percentage from the fee/prize money, are also being punished?

In 12 months time hughsies 5 days will be the worst ban given out in the whole period, utterly ridiculous.

bigust it was gambled on please believe me.

chris cook


V windy at Huntingdon. Jockeys may need to save 1 or 2 of their 8 strokes to keep horses straight on the run-in

Fox defended by owners after picking up whip ban

By James Pugh racingpost.com

JOCKEY Kieren Fox, who was banned for 15 days after falling foul of the new whip regulations at Salisbury on Monday, has been defended by the connections of Orthodox Lad, the horse he partnered to victory when breaking the rules.

Fox rode the John Best-trained OrthodoxLad to a short-head success in the 1m2f handicap but was subsequently handed the ban - as well as having his riding fee and prize-money percentage taken away - after he struck the colt seven times inside the final furlong and 11 times in total.

The new rules stipulate Flat jockeys can only use the whip seven times during a race and five times inside the last furlong.

Steve Nunn, representing owners SN Racing II, owners of Orthodox Lad, said: "Kieren will have no wages for half a month. The penalties are too harsh and I think it's ridiculous.

"Kieren is not an aggressive rider. He would accept he would get banned, but this is too harsh. My horses are not there to win at all costs. We love our horses and don't want to hurt them in any way.

"That horse now has one win under his belt. From a breeding point of view, that makes a big difference to us. Plus he's in the Horses In Training sale next week. Some don't understand the other angles," said Nunn, who also bred Orthodox Lad.

Nunn, speaking on At The Races, added: "I thought it was a great ride. I think gambling is a different aspect to it. You pay your money, you take your chance. It's another grey area of the rules."

Richards Hughes talking a lot of sense on ATR

Got the feeling he was saying "The BHA'S timing was poor they have made a right bol*Ocks of it. Everyone should be talking about Champions day the greatest days racing in the world instead Frankie Dettori on TV is talking about the whip

i thought all this mornings news programes with Frankie were because of the whip issues were they not ?

Great post from g_10. Silvergreaser you have really taken two of the top racing countries in the world in Sweden and Germany. Wa......

No wicked he was pre booked to talk about Champions Day.

Buick seems to adampted well enough AD....

Was the winner of the Arc not from Germany?

Just watched the 3.10 Leicester. It looked like a joke to me. Certainly no whip abuse. Most of the jockeys could be pulled in for not ensuring their mounts got the best placing possible. It would be safe to say that it was not a race at all. If all races are going to be similar to that one the end is much nearer than I originally thought. But racing will continue in other countries like Ireland, France and the States.

oh he was pre booked great timing never heard ascot mentioned once

FD he was. I was aware of that and knew someone would say it. Of course they had one in 1975 also which was 36 years ago.

As i posted earlier arklearkle within a week it'll be a level playing field with the Fast-pic boys. It's getting obvious now whatever is in front going inside the final furlong has an advantage, to back it you have 2 things running for you. 1) You can see if it's tiring or not and 2 you know no matter how much the 2nd(or whatever is finishing fast) responds to the whip it'll have to stop after 6 whacks

I have just seen the racing today and must say it looks strange. Jockey's you all need to grow balls and go on strike it is the only way this stupid rule will be changed. It does look like racing is going down the pan.

hmm i wonder which trainer does well with front runners and has a jockey that seldom gets banned.....

Not my words Monty Roberts, it was a copy and paste arkle,

Sincere apologies Silver you are correct. I think I am suffering from that "mental blindness" referred to earlier in the thread. It probably is because I am trying to count all the whip strikes for each and every horse in each race. It gets very difficult especially in a 16 runner field. Dont know how these poor stewards can do it. Of course they are more knowledgeable and intelligent than the rest of us. I have told my wife not to worry if she hears me counting and screaming in my sleep. Perhaps those people who watch airplanes taking off and landing and do things like keeping track of Eddie Stobert trucks could take up the counting also. It could help older people to keep their minds active and they could phone their figures into the stewards if they notice any criminal committing an offence.

Or we could make it much simpler Arkle and make the max = 0.

Feck it certainly would be simple but would also become irrelevant as there would be no one watching and no one betting on it.

No chance. You'll be telling me next that if the traders left there'd be no liquidity.

You are standing in line at the bank and you are daydreaming when it's your turn to go to the counter. You are wearing a vest (do people still wear them?) a shirt, jumper and jacket as it's getting a bit nippy now. When you don't move then the person behind you pushes you in the back and tells you it's your turn and then you "awake" from your dream and make your way up to the counter.

You move because you feel the push and know what it is intended to do and so you still react to it anyway but because of the amount of clothing you have, you don't feel any pain from it and it's much the same with the whip on the horses. They have thicker skin than humans anyway and have a coat too and the whips have also been modified now so whilst they still feel them enough to know to react to them, they don't really feel pain from them.

Very good analogy ima. On a lighter note I think I'll bring a whip with me next time I go to the bank/supermarket. Would be useful at the ATMs especially as some people take an eternity and have never understood how it can take so long to get a few quid out.

5.10 leicester another joke race.

LOL...that one's always bugged me too Arklearkle and I'm sure it takes me 20 seconds out the most, 30 if I check my balance first.

Number in - amount required in - take back card - take money - fold and put it pocket - move away.

I wrote a rolling TV comedy sketch a few years back where you see a line of people at a cash point machine standing around kicking their heels and then it goes to a few other sketches and comes back to where the queue is marginally shorter and those still in line are getting more and more frustrated. Then it goes to a few more sketches and back to the queue again and the main character has moved up a few places, it then goes to a few more sketches and back again until the main character is now at the front of the queue.

He does a few necks rolls, links and cracks his fingers as if psyching himself up to use the machine and then the camera goes to a close up of the screen and he starts playing a computer game on it!

Obviously the stewards are going to have their work cut out reviewing big handicaps for whip offences.  I think the BHA should start up a premium rate line where tv viewers could phone in with jockeys they think have broken the rules.  The first to pick a correctly offending jockey would win a substantial cash prize.  It could be called Shop-a-jock or the Grassline.  We could have Chapman saying "Boom!" followed by the lucky winners name.  Let's bring the fun back to racing!

shop-a-jock

Another solution would be to replace the big, heavy handed, hard hitting whip boys with mini me's. Midget jockeys with a top weight of 5 stone. Surly they could not complain then?

BHA refuse to rule out whip rule changes, but insist on thorough testing
By Marcus Townend

The British Horseracing Authority have said minor alterations to the new strict whip rules cannot be ruled out but only after the fresh regulations have had a thorough testing.

Day two of the new regime, including the first National Hunt meeting, passed without incident.

It followed both apprentice Kieren Fox (15 days) and Richard Hughes (five days) becoming the first riders to be subjected to the beefed up system at Salisbury on Monday.

It is the severity of the penalties, more than the rule changes which restrict a Flat jockey to seven strokes of his whip during a race and a jump jockey to eight, that has caused consternation among jockey ranks.

Riders banned under the new rules also face being stripped of their riding fee as well as their winning percentage.

However, BHA spokesman Paul Struthers said: ‘It would be a ridiculous situation to say there will be no changes ever but we won’t be making those changes after two days. All out rules are closely monitored which we will continue to do so.’

Struthers was responding to comments from Frankie Dettori and, particularly, Kieren Fallon.

Dettori, who has broadly backed the changes, has said he feels a few tweeks may be needed while six-time champion Fallon called for the penalty system to be reviewed.

Fallon, successful on Damascus Symphony and Flameoftheforest at Newcastle, said: 'I think the penalties are ridiculous - they don't fit the crime.

'You are trying to concentrate and work on your horse to get the best possible position, as well as trying to think about how many times you have to hit it.

'That one slap can take make a difference and I think that's wrong. They (new rules) are here now, but I think they should look at the penalties.'

The BHA also responded to claims from Hughes that the decision to implement changes in whip regulations in the week of the inaugural £3million British Champions Day was 'deplorable'.

Hughes said: 'They've planned it to be the biggest race day of all time and instead they are talking about the whip. It's a shame.'

But Struthers countered: 'There is hardly a weekend in the calendar when there is not a big meeting. We announced that the results of our whip review would be implemented in October and we would have left ourselves open to criticism if we'd then been seen to be avoiding using them for British Champions Day.'


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/racing/article-2048017/British-Horseracing-...

Kieren Fox will not appeal against first whip ban under the new rules

• Jockey says penalty out of all proportion to offence
• BHA defends introducing changes in Champions Day week


Chris Cook
guardian.co.uk, Wednesday 12 Oct

Kieren Fox, the first jockey to be punished under the newly toughened whip rules, will not appeal against the 15-day ban meted out to him at Salisbury on Monday. Nevertheless, Fox feels his penalty is out of all proportion to the offence.


"I've broken the rule that they've put down but the rules are harsh," he said by telephone, reflecting on a race in which he hit his mount, Orthodox Lad, 11 times, four more than is now allowed in any Flat race. "If you break them, then you get what you get but starting at five days is a bit unfair.


"My horse was a maiden, he's going to the sales, it's really important to the owner that he wins and it [the whip] did make a difference. I've not cut him in half, I've not been overly hard on him. I don't think people in racing are telling the public what the new padded stick is really like, or how thick a horse's skin is. It's just encouragement. He runs for a smack, this horse. He doesn't even know he's had a race."


Fox was especially riled by suggestions in news reports that his performance on Orthodox Lad might have been found in breach under the old whip rules. "I wouldn't have been, because my understanding was that, if you hit it 12 times, you got a caution and from 13 you started getting days," he said.


"I was counting from the two pole but when I got to the furlong pole with a horse either side of me and all trying to win, that's when the adrenaline takes over. I was aware of what I was doing but not the number of times. I'm just trying to make a living and feed my children.


"The owners are paying an awful lot of money to have these horses in training. Had I not hit the horse 11 times, I don't think he would have won.


"But I've got to take it on the chin. I'm the first, with Richard Hughes [given a five-day ban after the same race], to break the rule but I definitely ain't going to be the last. There'll be plenty more to come."


Fox echoed the comments of other jockeys who have, in recent days, objected to the fact that whip rule breaches now result in forfeiture of the riding fee and any prize money won by the offending rider. "Fair enough, taking your prize money away but they shouldn't take your riding fee away because you've earned that," he said.


The British Horseracing Authority has defended its decision to introduce the new rules in the same week as the revamped Champions Day, which is supposed to broaden the sport's appeal. Advance publicity of the £3m raceday at Ascot has been marginalised by continuing coverage of the new rules, which have proved much more controversial than those in power must have hoped.


For the third day in succession, this morning's Racing Post filled its first three pages with stories about the whip rules. Frankie Dettori and Tony McCoy, quoted by the BHA as supporting the new rules when they were initially published a fortnight ago, have expressed serious reservations since their introduction.


"We considered all sorts of things as to when to launch the rules and when to introduce them," said the BHA's Paul Struthers. "We have always said that we would have the review completed by October.


"These things can get out and the longer we left it after making the decision, the greater the chances of it leaking out. That happened with the Grand National review, for example, and it's far from ideal because only bits of it come out that way and it can be very, very damaging. So we wanted to act as quickly as possible.


"So then you look at when to implement it. If we'd waited until after Champions Day, personally I think it's naive to believe the headlines about Saturday would just be about the racing. If you had a winning jockey breaking the old whip rules, the story would have been what he would have got under the new rules, and then we could have been accused of being cynical and of sitting on it for PR reasons.


"There's rarely a low-key Saturday and we felt, not just those involved in the review but the BHA as a whole and the BHA board, that if these are to be the new rules and that they're in the best interests of racing, then why delay implementing them?"


Struthers reported his impression of an "even split" within the industry between "those who think we've gone way too far and ruined the sport, those who think we've not gone far enough and should be banning the whip or disqualifying people, and the people in the middle who think we've got the balance about right."

Would you want to buy a horse that you have to break the rules to win with? Who would want to ride it for you?