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I knew workforce was in trouble as soon as his trainer gave Clair balding one of his moon faced warnings over the prevailing ground conditions , then in the race he was badly balked when Mooor was trying to get a position soon after the off . Safarina recovered from
being balked last year but that was off a much slower pace . Safarina is imo a nearly great filly but like her sire Refuse to bend does not get a truly run twelve furlongs. |
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Youamzing or something like that
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G1J
Dandino may have had any easy lead in both races as you correctly say. But he didn't want to be in front. Anyway, I had a few quid on the winner today ew based on her last two facile victories. |
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It was an anti climax unless u had the winner. The so called big guns did give there mounts a lot 2 do, especially Heffernan, but in fairness he was not well drawin in 14. As for Workforce he got badly cut up early on and never looked happy after that. Sarafina was out wide all the way round, again not well drawn in 13. Bad day at the office for me.
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mcscrunge
The time as always is relative to the ground. Probably the fastest going they have run the Arc on for a while. |
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lol flying bolt
yes it was youmzain. hills even got me a ban for a year on here after his tucking away of her in the straight. this feels so sweet |
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he imo.
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watched the race twice again.
danedream was really travelling well from halfway to the post. shoulders were up on all bar one and that horse was ahead of her at the time. workforce did get hampered early also the jock on him was just waiting to get out rather than knowing you had to take your chance through the inner round the final band...that became more apparent as syt bocked his path out wide. couldnt see the galikova hampering |
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of course.
maybe im refering to hills as the she lol |
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Cannot argue with the winner - absolutely p1ssed it - no need for any pocket talkers with a 5L winner in record time.
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Seems to me we are discussing the race. Can't see any "pocket talkers" on this thread.
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of course next year will be harder .....well more than likely.
3yr olds have now won 8 of the last 9 arcs???? |
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15 of the last 18
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wow
thats some stat. |
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flyingbolt: that wasn't anywhere near the fastest ground they've had in the Arc in the last 20 years and Danedream (until now) couldn't have been spoken of in the same terms as Peintre Celebre who was both fast and exceptional.
They were kicking that ground up all afternoon, so at best it was 'Good' ground, no more. For me, that makes the visual impact a case of 'seeing is believing' - she must be very good indeed. I backed Meandre and St.Nicholas Abbey, so I'm no gloater. Hope we see her again soon. |
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The stats speak in strong favour of the 3yos, but am not a fan of 3yo fillys in the race and layed a gd bit on Galikova. Thankfully i did not lay the winner, am not brave enough 2 lay anything at that price, thank God.
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mcscrunge
Peintre Celebre was one of the greatest horses it's been my pleasure to see. I'm very much a fan of "seeing is believing". However on this occasion I have my doubts..................the placed hoses are not top notched.Some of the fancied horses were given impossible tasks. As for the ground, as you say they were kicking it up a bit but it was fast underneath (as is often the case when they water overnight). If she recorded that time on good ground she would be the greatest horse that ever lived. Somehow I can't see that. Can you ? |
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Frankle owns that title.(Nap)
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Anaglogs what title, please?
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I historically hate the race,the racecourse and the country.To hear people laud it as the best race in Europe is irritating,it comes at the end of the season so usually suits some moderate beast that has been kept under wraps most of the season.
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The Greatest Horse That ever lived.
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flyingbolt
She only bettered Peintre Celebre's time, so no, she's not the greatest horse who ever lived. Sea Bird was probably that horse (before my time, but made Champions look one-paced - how fast could he have run if inclined?). Elementary physics tells you that loose-on-top ground can't provide the necessary friction of good to firm ground, regardless of its condition underneath. Good to firm was Peintre Celebre's going on Arc day. John Gosden will doubtless complain about the ground after convincing the Leger winner's owners to cough up some serious wonga to enter and come last....another dent in the ground theory. Reference the placed horses: Shareta was very progressive until the v.soft ground trial she ran in last time and we all know that Snow Fairy is a decent benchmark. So You Think couldn't beat her today nor did he beat her by 5 and 3/4 lengths in Ireland. They both had a similarly disadvantageous draw today. This is all wonderfully subjective - the beauty of horse racing - so we must hope she comes out again soon to show whether this was a fluke or not (hopefully with Mr Starke on board since he has the very good habit of winning on her!). It was no fluke; it's just not what the mainstream expected - or wanted. Michael Tabor: "I've never heard of the sire...". Quite a statement from the owner/breeder(!) of some of the best horses on the planet. Must do this again sometime - I'm off to Champions Day on Oct 15th - perhaps after the Champion Stakes? Take it easy all. |
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Longchamp layers rejoice after shock Arc result
By Andrew Scutts racingpost.com BOOKMAKERS on Sunday hailed their most profitable Arc day 'in modern memory' after Danedream became the first to win the big race at a double-figure price since Bago in 2004, while runner-up Shareta likewise went virtually unbacked. Danedream returned at an industry SP of 20-1, while there was only one horse in the 16-runner field (Silver Pond) who started at a bigger price than 66-1 chance Shareta. Each-way bets on third-home Snow Fairy (14-1) were the only dents in bookmakers' profits. "The Arc was an exceptional result," said Ladbrokes spokesman David Williams. "If we were being incredibly greedy, Snow Fairy being placed wasn't ideal, but the winner and second were as good as it gets. Danedream and Shareta did not register on the vast majority ofradars. "Tangerine Trees winning the Abbaye was fine but to be honest the Arc is the race that dominates the day." Kate Miller of William Hill said: "This is the greatest Arc result for bookies in modern memory. Our guys were keen to keep Danedream onside and punters just weren't interested, with only one per cent of the money fielded for the German filly." Coral also toasted Danedream's success - and the card as a whole - with spokesman Simon Clare saying: "It was an absolute skinner. Danedream had reasonable credentials but it was nonetheless a shock. Workforce, So You Think and Sarafina were the punters' focus. "The Arc is by far the biggest betting race and this was one of the biggest shocks in years. We will have kept most of what we took on the race thanks to the winner and Shareta. Each-way bets on Snow Fairy would have been just about the only payout." He added: "Dabirsim would have been a loser, but it was a terrific day on the whole, with the Boussac hotpot (Zantenda) also turned over." The defeat of Goldikova was another excellent result for the industry, with Miller adding: "All Dream Ahead's form has been over six furlongs this year and punters really steamed into Goldikova - she was easily our best backed horse of the day." On Betfair's ante-post Arc market, there was £45 matched at 999-1 on Danedream |
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would have been far more of a shock had so you think won.
clearly behind on the form book it was like saying midday would have been favourite for the race which in reality you know she wouldnt have been. |
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ground was riding no faster than good on race times from Saturday, so if Danedream got anywhere near the track or race record today, then she must be a champion and deserves all the credit going for winning by 5 length margin. Nobody said that winning distance was possible beforehand.
Alain De Royer Dupre laughed when asked whether Shareta was just a pacemaker, said she is a very good filly in her own right. Snow Fairy and So You Think finished upsides like they did in Ireland, so probable that they have run to form and are good Group 1 yardsticks. Danedream has improved massively last 2 starts, and obviously again today. No reason to think she won't cream this lot in the future. |
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The Aussies thinks it ran a "Mighty race"
Sun Herald SO You Think ran a mighty race, but he was no match for German superstar filly Danedream in todays Prix de LArc de Triomphe at Longchamp. The dual Cox Plate finished off the race as well as any horse, but Danedream was in a race of her own as she became the first German-trained horse to win the Arc in 36 years. Danedream, a daughter of Lomitas from the Danehill mare Danedrop, ran the quickest ever Arc time to demolish her rivals by five lengths. So You Think, sent out at $7.80, rallied well from the rear to finish fourth, beaten about five and three-quarter lengths. Trainer Aidan O’Brien is now thinking of running So You Think on the dirt at next month’s Breeders Cup meeting at Churchill Downs. "I thought he ran very well. He was coming home very well and it was the first time he'd run over that trip for us,” O’Brien told the Sporting Life. "He's a big cruiser and I think he would handle the dirt (Breeders' Cup) no problem, but the boys will have to discuss it before we decide what to do next." So You Think's jockey, Seamus, Heffernan said the wide draw did not help his horse. "He had a very wide draw, so you had to make an early decision, and I wanted to make sure there was something left at the finish,” Heffernan said. “I thought it was a good run." Danedream, a winner of two Group 1s in Germany at his previous two starts, was a late entry for the Arc, but the $138,000 fee paid a $3.1 million dividen. Favourite Sarafina, $4.50 finish seventh, less than one length behind So You Think while Workforce, $13, finished |
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I didnt have a penny on SYT but why - G1Jock4 - was SYT so clearly behind on form ? Do you mean lack of evidence at the distance ?
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clues.
sna.....ignore todays run...he was clearly used to make a strong pace stronger. nut look at the coronation cup. dandino easy lead....drops away sna collars midday. now twice midday has beaten snow fairy. snow fairy got a bit too close to syt at leopardstown for it to be as good as people made out. would midday have won the arc??? if Sir Henry though so he would have run her obviously fully expecting to beat snow fair once again. you know and i know midday isnt quite in that league whilst digging i saw the form line linked to dandream and thought it must be dandino running poorly compared to the coronation cup. no it wasnt .he had an easy lead that day too said the other day the market was all wrong |
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Flyingbolt,the ground was as near perfect as possible to get,walked course yesterday and today.Dried out a bit today but still a good print being made,not fast by any stretch.
Btw they decided against watering last night and put none on as there was plenty of juice in the turf. Time was more to do with the solid all round pace,Bago clocked 2.25 on easy side of good in a muddling race so despite a course record time it doesnt by itself suggest fast ground.(which it wasnt) |
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pedrobob
like your way of thinking - glad to see my perspective isn't so lonely, after all! Looking forward to her next run - should be very interesting (based on her recent very significant improvement). |
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Snow Fairys form in big fields is different class to her runs in smaller ones though and theres every reason to think she'll once again thrive in the far east this autumn. using collateral form with Midday and SNA doesnt really fit into midday winning the arc
In that case you could have used the Twice over beating Midday after getting thrashed by STY at Ascot |
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well i have no doubt she is a top class filly the style in which she has won her last 3 races by a total of 16 lengths,all gr 1s aswell,its easy to knock the baden baden race but its now produced the arc winner twice in the last 9 years,yesterday it was clear from a very long way out what the outcome would be provideing there was no pilot error,i have been lucky to see such great fillies and mares like triptych,pebbles,miesque,ouji board and time charter and given luck health wise i have no doubt if kept in training she will reach the hieghts of the great racehorses.
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Having watched the replays a couple more times must agree that she is special ....just wished I had spotted clues prior to the race, because on reflection they were there, supercharged performance
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The correlation between 'strange' results and watered ground can no longer be ignored. Just the latest in a series of shock results in major races this season on watered ground, time to pack the game in and bet on sports that aren't administered by incompetents imo.
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time will prove that wasnt a strange result.
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Calls for end of female allowance get louder
BY SAM WALKER RACINGPOST.COM WORLD CLASS: an analysis of the international scene according to Racing Post Ratings BLACK CAVIAR's unquestioned dominance earlier in the year inspired an argument for scrappage of the distaff allowance and fuel was added to the fire this weekend. On Saturday, Havre De Grace slammed her own sex in the Beldame, proving her connections were spot on to target the Breeders' Cup Classic. And then on Sunday Danedream was a record-breaking winner of the Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe, beating Shareta and Snow Fairy into second and third, with So You Think finishing best of the boys in fourth. Not satisfied with having the best sprinter on theplanet, the girls are now out to dominate the most prestigious races in the world (Arc/Breeders' Cup Classic). If Havre De Grace does manage to beat the boys at Churchill Downs next month, calls for the distaff weight concession to be removed altogether will get louder, and with good reason. This current batch of man-eaters is not a one off anomaly. These fillies are riding the coat-tails of a number of recent distaffers who also proved better than the colts - the likes of Zarkava, Zenyatta, Rachel Alexandra and Goldikova. But now it is becoming the norm for fillies to come out on top, should the various racing jurisdictions now level the playing field to allow the colts a chance to win- lest the boys end up avoiding the premier events altogether to stay within the safehouse of colts-only racing? Of course, much like the female equine racing community, I'm breaking balls, but there is a point here. Just as with weight-for-age, the distaff allowance is dated and it is a best fit formula which allows some horses an advantage which they may not necessarily need. Some suggestions have been made to scrap all allowances and have every horse run off the same weight. This would be fair in one way - cosmetically - but it would not allow for competitive racing. Chucking out the weight-for-age system is unlikely now because it would be expensive to keep everyhorse in training until it is fully mature (competitive), added to that is all of the history and heritage you would wipe out with one red swipe. So basically, love it or hate it, we're always going to be stuck with weight-for-age in one form or other, but if distaffers keep beating up the boys there will have to come a time when those emasculated souls cry enough and demand a level playing field. Until then, we all know it's still happening, so as punters we can just stick with those fantastic females. In Sunday's Arc, fillies finished first, second and third. They may not have been the best three horses on the day, as So You Think ran a cracker from the rear in a race where it clearly paid to be prominent and he was probably at least second best. Race positioning was all important and Danedream had a nice sit behind the leaders, got a clear run to the line and pulled an impressive five lengths clear. Snow Fairy followed her through to take third, while the major fancies like So You Think and Sarafina were running on too late, posting below-par figures. Though it paid to be on the pace, Danedream broke thecourse record for her five-length success and she rates alongside recent winner Rail Link with an RPR of 128, just below the great Zarkava (129). Runner-up Shareta was best placed on the lead turning in and posted a career best mark of 120. Taking her sex allowance into account, an RPR of 128 means it would have taken a 131 performance from a colt to dead-heat with her, or a 132 to beat her. So horses like So You Think and dear old Pour Moi (injured ante-post favourite) would have hada task catching her even if gifted the run of the race. It was probably hers all along. The rapidly improving €9,000 "fun horse" becomes queen of Europe. You have to love the story. This weekend was not only about the Arc and there were a number of world class performances all over the planet. Allow me to rip through the pick of them . . . First up Ambitious Dragon who posted a career best RPR of 125+ in a Group 3 handicap at Sha Tin. He is the leading Hong Konger this year and jockey Douglas Whyte thinks he's the best he's ever ridden. The best performance on Saturday's card at Longchamp came from Champion Stakes fancy Cirrus Des Aigles (125), who ran second to Byword (121) under a penalty in the Prix Dollar. Then we followed the sunwest to Belmont Park where Uncle Mo (127) posted the biggest RPR of the day for his defeat of Jackson Bend in the Kelso Handicap. This was a step up from his comeback in the King's Bishop, but he only faced three rivals and still has something to prove distance-wise for the Breeders' Cup Classic, for which he became the latest favourite (yes, another) after stablemate Stay Thirsty got turned over. Stay Thirsty was a narrow favourite for the Jockey Club Gold Cup on Saturday, but it was Flat Out (125) who cashed in his recent solid placed form behind Havre De Grace with a two-and-a-quarter length win over Drosselmeyer. Havre De Grace is set to receive 3lb from the colts in the Breeders' Cup Classic and after her success in the Beldame she remains best-in on the adjusted figures. She was awesome on Saturday night and made my suggestion last week to run her in the Ladies' Classic look ridiculous. More ridiculous still was Blind Luck finishing last inthe Lady's Secret when the sun moved over California, meaning the hypothetical showdown in the Ladies' Classic would be off altogether (Blind Luck will not run). Blind Luck was better than Havre De Grace last year. In all four meetings, she came out best at the weights. This year, however, Havre De Grace has improved (and is still improving) and the pecking order has now reversed, with Larry Jones's filly coming out best at the weights in their two meetings in 2011. Havre De Grace's latest win was worth a career best RPR of 125+ and it is actually unrateable in conventional terms, meaning it could be worth even more. If she can repeat that level in the Classic it means a colt would need to run to 128 to match her. If she can build on that I think she'll win. Connections deserve credit for pointing her to the Classic. She has always had a realistic chance given the adjusted weights in this open year, but they had an easy option against Blind Luck in the Ladies' race and they rejected that to go for broke. They have already tried her against the boys in the Woodward and she won (just like Rachel Alexandra) and now she has an unrateable wide-margin win (just like Rachel) to add to her record. This season is really coming together for Havre De Grace. She's improving at the right time and, unlike most of the alternatives for the 2011 Horse of the Year, she would not be a compromisechoice. If she wins the Classic she would be a very deserving champ. And with the 3lb weight allowance she might just do it. Vive les pouliches. TOP OF THE CLASS: Danedream 128 Peter Schiergen (Ger) (Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe, Longchamp, 1m4f, October 2) Overall World Top Ten 1 Frankel (GB) Sussex Stakes 137T 2 Black Caviar (Aus) Newmarket Handicap 133T 3 So You Think (Ire) Eclipse 132T 4 Workforce (GB) Eclipse 131T 5 Canford Cliffs (GB) Queen Anne 130T Rewilding (GB) Prince Of Wales's Stakes 130T 7 The Factor (US) Pat O'Brien Stakes 129A 8 Danedream (Ger) Arc 128T 9 Hay List (Aus) All Aged Stakes 127T Rocket Man (Sing) Lion City Cup 127T Twice Over (GB) International 127T Uncle Mo (US) Kelso Handicap 127D Top Turf Performers 1 Frankel (GB) Sussex Stakes 137 2 Black Caviar (Aus) Newmarket Handicap 133 3 So You Think (Ire) Eclipse 132 4 Workforce (GB) Eclipse 131 5 Canford Cliffs (GB) Queen Anne 130 Rewilding (GB) Prince Of Wales's Stakes 130 7 Danedream (Ger) Arc 128 8 Hay List (Aus) All Aged Stakes 127 Rocket Man (Sing) Lion City Cup 127 Twice Over (GB) International 127 Top Dirt Performers 1 Uncle Mo (US) Kelso Handicap 127 2 Animal Kingdom (US) Kentucky Derby 126 3 Big Drama (US) Mr Prospector Stakes 125 Flat Out (US) Jockey Club Gold Cup 125 Havre De Grace (US) Beldame 125 Tizway (US) Whitney Hcap 125 7 Trappe Shot (US) True North Hcap 123 Smart Falcon (****) Teio Sho 123 Game On Dude (US) Goodwood 123 Coil (US) Goodwood 123 Top AW Performers 1 The Factor (US) Pat O'Brien 129 2 Smiling Tiger (US) Triple Bend Handicap 126 Rocket Man (Sing) Golden Shaheen 126 4 Acclamation (US) Pacific Classic 125 Twirling Candy (US) Hollywood Gold Cup 125 6 Twice Over (GB) Al Maktoum Challenge R3 123 7 Game On Dude (US) Hollywood Gold Cup 122 Sidney's Candy (US) Mervyn Leroy Hcap 122 9 Crown Of Thorns (US) Mervyn Lero/Pat O'Brien 121 Euroears (US) Bing Crosby 121 |
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The result might have come as a shock but the time is being taken too literally.Cited comparisons elsewhere so wont go too far in depth.
Yesterday,solid pace all round,clean run for the winner. To name just one to compare with who was no world beater. Bago clocked 2.25 on ground slightly slower than yesterday (yesterday almost perfect ground btw),messy race turned into a sprint last 400m and carried 3lb more than the filly. Plenty more to compare to get perspective but Marrienbard carried 11lb more and clocked 2.26.7 in similar circumstances to Bago. STS,reigned back,hemmed in,strolled last 100m+ 2.26 clocked with 3lb more. So a good performance but not earth shattering,despite the time and winning distance.However she is probably better than even yesterdays result would suggest,not a bead of sweat when she came in. |
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Cape Blanco has been retired to stud following an injury he sustained when winning the Joe Hirsch Turf Classic at Belmont.
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anaglogs
the other day on the wireless the question was asked who wrote the first auto biography,i had to go before i heard the answer ,i dont surpose you heard the answer did you ? |
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ere zilzal
twice over is a "confidence" horse. twice now its come back from an awful spell. so is it the twice over who could just about manage to win a conditions race or the twice over who won group 1s your on about. and no he wouldnt win an arc because he wouldnt stay |