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C Van der Wheil, the Flying Dutchman

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Replies: 151
By:
onlooker
When: 20 Jun 12 11:57
You claim to be VdW on the other thread.

- and that was intimated earlier on here.

I was always of the opinion that VdW was a fictional creation of Tony Peach.

I spoke with Peach a couple of years ago - He appeared to be disinterested in the game - and more far obsessed with his Catholicism.

That says it all, really. ... He must have voted for Tony Blair, aswell.CryLaugh

Mind you - I was always also of ther opinion that he was never entirely 'with the game', either.
By:
G Hall
When: 20 Jun 12 14:02
onlooker I don't claim to be vdw just because my handle is G Hall,but vdw and G Hall were/are one and the same.

VDW was a pretty astute guy,but unfortunately he didn't have the temperament or discipline that he continually banged on about.
By:
Scuttler
When: 20 Jun 12 14:17
Is Brian Cottam still going? He used edit the letters page after Peach i think.
By:
G Hall
When: 27 Aug 13 14:13
Good read this,the vdw saga certainly ran it's course.The cloak and dagger stuff,it was unreal.

It is a pity that vdw didn't come clean,because whether or not he made it pay,he certainly knew the racing game.The saddest part about it,was he told a lot of lies,and when the response to his initial Prominent King evaluation met with a relatively muted response,he stoked up the debate,by writing under the name of G Hall.In fact he even replied to himself!! crazy stuff.

He was spot on though in regard to form evaluation and odds and temperament,how would he have fared on betfair,if he had discipline problems in those days.There was a guy called Lee who made it pay though and a few others,so fair play to them.

Love him or loathe him VDW made a significant contribution to many folks attitude to racing.
By:
G Hall
When: 28 Aug 13 12:00
Not much interest in this topic any more? SadSad
By:
Oldgit1
When: 28 Aug 13 12:29
I bought my first copy of the pocket sized Sporting Chronicle Handicap Book in May 1954.
Split Second and Reflections on Running I used as the basis of profitable betting.
With the past weeks results and race cards it was well worth the Tanner it cost.
By:
G Hall
When: 28 Aug 13 18:44
I suppose the internet killed off all those publications,they were better days in mvho.
By:
collywobble
When: 28 Aug 13 20:48
I used to read the VDW stuff in the H'cap book. I also bought the Brimardon system when it first came out and you had to input the info yourself.
The two methods were very similar.
By:
G Hall
When: 28 Aug 13 22:11
Were they,brimardon just inputs data i think,vdw was more methodical,also one had to equate class with form,and understand the odds.
By:
collywobble
When: 28 Aug 13 22:23
Iirc, the main inputting on Brimardon was recent form and class, ie how much prize money a horse had won and the basic rating which was taken from Hussey's speed figures.
By:
G Hall
When: 20 Apr 14 12:44
As the flat begins to get into full swing,has there been any updates on C Van Der Wheil,is he still alive and well.There used to be a lot of activity on various forums,but I think it has all dried up.
By:
Arklearkle
When: 20 Apr 14 19:25
Van de W was an aftertimer full stop.
By:
Limelight
When: 20 Apr 14 19:52
I believe VDW was a creation by Mr. Peach. Good system though...
By:
onlooker
When: 20 Apr 14 21:27
^ So do I .... and he is still trying to sell it, too. Happy
By:
Hound-Dog-2
When: 21 Apr 14 11:04
There was always a lot of interest in the Sports Forum on the back page of the old Sporting Chronicle Handicap Book.  If VDW was a creation or not I don't know, but yes, he was an aftertimer.  Tried to convince us he had some special ingredient to finding winners.
By:
G Hall
When: 21 Apr 14 12:23
He does exist and does live in market Harborough,but not as che van der wheil,he was a punter,who lacked discipline unfortunately.His methods were very good to be fair.
By:
Arklearkle
When: 21 Apr 14 16:30
I dont believe he ever put up a winner in advance which says it all.
By:
Hound-Dog-2
When: 21 Apr 14 16:56
^ No, he never did put up a winner in advance, he was an after-time merchant.  He didn't mis-lead anybody, but might have gave some the impression he was the inventor of a winning method.  Although lacked discipline himself for any successful betting.
By:
Dr Crippen
When: 21 Apr 14 17:39
There's a lot of misunderstanding about VDW.

He gave an awful lot away. Nevertheless many people rubbish his teachings instead of learning from them. 
His basic approach showed how to narrow the field in certain races, where his class ratings could be used with other factors to show winners that stood out.
The game has changed since he was about, like multiple handicap winners.
So his winner in three most consistent although sound, might let you down more often than in his day.
By:
Dr Crippen
When: 21 Apr 14 18:20
G. Hall,
I pulled this out of his book Racing in my System.

''The march of time takes its toll and I have for some years been unable to physically withstand the rigours of the track , finally accepting the situation during the 1990 flat season.''

I'd be very surprised if VDW is still alive.
By:
G Hall
When: 17 Feb 15 11:27
An update for anyone who is interested.The legendary Che Van Der Wheil is still alive,but alas is poorly and is currently residing in a nursing home.The man from Market Harborough in Leicestershire,would be better known in his home town as Gordon Hall.

I wish him well,although a full recovery is not expected.His expertise and knowledge of racing was unsurpassed in my humble opinion.
By:
Dr Crippen
When: 17 Feb 15 12:23
Yes G Hall, I agree completely with your last sentence.

Although he makes you work for the gems that you need to know before you will become proficient.
Like how did he so readily dismiss Beacon Light in one of his first examples?
I bet that one had a few scratching their heads and still has.
His gave quite a lot away in his later writings as well.

I certainly hope that anyone who has sorted out the missing link keeps it to themselves.
Like VDW said it would be a shame if it was devalued by common knowledge of it.
By:
Ahoy 1982
When: 17 Feb 15 12:51
Beacon light was a big clue in how he approached ''form'', Roushayd the ultimate!!
By:
G Hall
When: 17 Feb 15 12:54
Hopefully that won't happen Dr as I spent a lot of time going through all the examples,and then there was a member of a vdw forum,who helped a lot,and also proofed his selections pre race.

The Prominent King example caused me some problems,and I had to revisit it,after first going through the first seven examples,that VDW elaborated on.

I believe that there is a family dispute ongoing,in regards to the great mans documents.I hope that this is not the case.
By:
Greg_Gory
When: 17 Feb 15 13:12
Beacon Light cost me once when about 10 lengths clear and falling at the last Cry

or 2nd last
By:
Ahoy 1982
When: 17 Feb 15 13:27
Nothing worse.
By:
stewarts rise
When: 17 Feb 15 14:09
G Hall
17 Feb 15 11:27
Joined:
26 Feb 06
| Topic/replies: 5,967 | Blogger: G Hall's blog
An update for anyone who is interested.The legendary Che Van Der Wheil is still alive,but alas is poorly and is currently residing in a nursing home.The man from Market Harborough in Leicestershire,would be better known in his home town as Gordon Hall.

Any relation by any chance?Grin
By:
Ahoy 1982
When: 17 Feb 15 14:57
LaughLaughLaugh
By:
Arklearkle
When: 17 Feb 15 15:52
Someone made a good few bob out of the after-timer
By:
onlooker
When: 17 Feb 15 17:29
T P is still trying to. Grin
By:
Arklearkle
When: 17 Feb 15 19:23
Possibly here in our midst.
By:
Stark
When: 17 Feb 15 20:19
Difficult to believe that this has reared its ugly head so many years later.

Missing link? Many figured it out years ago, although it wasn't quite the road to riches that most assumed.

The alleged "Dutchman" always proclaimed "read what I wrote" and I think people looked too deeply, totally missing the obvious, so here it is for you all (and it is quite boring,really).

Early on in his writings, he gave statistics, (not fantastically accurate, but there or thereabouts), of form figures from the last three runs and how many of those horses went on to win their subsequent races.

So there you have it. It was all about backing three or more in a race. The big priced winners sounded impressive when given in isolation, but not really that difficult to compile a shortlist of horses with a live chance.
By:
bix
When: 18 Feb 15 08:37
Always preferred the Dawson System myself. Still showing huge profits after all this time.
By:
sean rua
When: 18 Feb 15 10:40
I was very interested in the method for years, but never had much succes with it. Probably didn't guess the "missing link" correctly, despite having at least three guys on various fora telling me what it was.

My conclusion was that it must be basically a dutching system, even after going through all the rigmarole of "seeing the winner in the race".

I thought the prize money idea was good, provided the bulk of the money hadn't come from just one or a few flukey wins.

Eventually, I gave up trying with it, especially when we had some guys claiming to have " met a man with a german-like accent", or, "visited the great man's grave," etc.

Good luck to those who can make it pay. I certainly didn't with my interpretation of the method.Sad
By:
G Hall
When: 18 Feb 15 10:44
VDW wrote his letters, articles etc, at a time when the internet,and mobile communication didn't exist. I am sure he never envisaged the scenario that would have led to his name being bandied about globally if you like.

In fairness to Gordon/VDW as far as I am aware,he never sought any financial gain from what he wrote,although he may have received a modest fee for writing Systematic Betting,which by the way remains the best book I have ever read on how to analyse form.

I think what started out as a bit of fun,spiralled out of control,yet everything he wrote was of immense value, to the serious punter. I can only thank him,for imparting some of his knowledge.
By:
G Hall
When: 18 Feb 15 10:48
As a post script,nowadays,there are lots of ways to interact with faceless people,in the 1970's and 80's,this wasn't really possible, the handicap book provided an outlet for like minded people to interact,which is where it all started. I think we shouldn't be too harsh in our judgement.
By:
tons of sobs
When: 18 Feb 15 11:09
Came out with the immortal....

111=33%
111=33%
111=33%

leaving only a 1% chance the winner will come from elsewhere.

Laugh                      Cry                             Laugh
By:
Dr Crippen
When: 18 Feb 15 13:41
tons of sobs,

This is what he actually wrote:

''If there are three horses in a race each having won their three last races, the figures indicate that it is almost certain one of them should win, 33% + 33% + 33% = 99%. Only about one chance in a hundred that the winner will come from elsewhere, so it would be going against the odds to select any other horse in the field.''

Of course it is ludicrous. And I'm sure he blushed when he realised what he'd written.

But the relevant line is  ''it would be going against the odds to select any other horse in the field.''
Which is his point, but using flawed reasoning.

And that is his theme all the way though, ''don't go against the odds.''
By:
onlooker
When: 18 Feb 15 14:31
G Hall - Would 'Bobajobber' be very, very, close to you ?
By:
G Hall
When: 18 Feb 15 14:32
Onlooker it doesn't mean anything to me sorry.
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