Calling On-Course Bookmakers

2 final tips from me.  Do NOT buy any all weather.  Do NOT buy any cheap looking pitch with the name CHEPSTOW at the beginning of it.  May as well burn your money.

Where ever you buy.  Do not trade every day you are entitled to.  Ask around, being selective with save you plenty.
e.g.Aintree.  Just because you have a number does not mean you trade every day.  You would just stand on Fri and Sat of National meeting.
Not suggesting you buy Aintree as too expensive for your budget and its location but the principle applies to most places.

How about sticking up for some Southern tracks Steve - the impression has been given that no track South of Lancashire/Yorkshire is worth attending ?

thanx jimnast

wot

jimnast whats to do with these people

just for the record i am not bladerred !

will be tomoz after the rugby though !

nineiron to many got bitter with the job,me too looking forward to the rugby tommorow it would be nice to go and then carry on to ffos.

Thanks alot lads, great help.

Is there anyway of seeing the auctions on the agt site, as I cant register at the moment and only have the past results to go by.

Thanks

Demo. I do not have the wealth of experience of many and trading is very difficult.  However, there are tracks in the South where money can be made.  Sandown, Fakenham, July, Nottingham, Yarmouth.  On certain days even off bad numbers.
I am not suggesting fortunes but a reasonable profit can be lifted.
Yesteryear i remember bookies had margins on their side, the current ones standing should remember that.  There is no point moaning about no margins and always losing.  Remember you do not have to bet to a very low margin and if the bookies realised it they are only shooting themselves in the foot by trying to compete continually with the Exchanges.  Be patient and you do not have to take ever bet.

that would be v good dont think i would work very well on the saturday mind Lol

Fairtrader.  Call AGT and ask.  In your position i think you will find them accomodating.

Nineiron.  Saturday  should be better.  In that we usually bet to worse margins the lower the crowd.  I was told when i started it is not what you take it is what you keep that counts.  However, we all fall into the trap of saying i laid this and i laid that and then i did.........
You know that Profit keeps you sane.  Turnover just keeps you busy.
(accept very few will listen tho !!)

england -3 hcap @ 10/11 looks the bet for me
sugar i was refering to working at ffos las after a heavy night in cardiff

oK NO PROBLEM.  pLEASED TO HEAR YOU ENJOYED YOURSELF.

every one is entitled to thier opinion but sending a rookie to sandown off a bad pitch number would send him skint quickly.

i always find the ex's @ sandown put u on the back foot straight away
isnt it nearly 170 to bet whitbread day ?

Spot on.  But if he just went on Ecipse day and Whitbread day granted reasonable not fantastic results he would have a winning chance.
Fairtrader.  In this example off a bad number you should not consider any other days, with poss exception of a music night clashing with a Festival, say goodwood.  However you will find the expenses will be increased to an uncomfortable level.

thats without staff and petrol. plus from a bad pitch you will be on the back line and to be honest you will only lay over the odds.

Fairtrader
Take on board what the others have said,DO NOT try to go full time at the moment.Keep your day job & just work steady away into this.Be very selective.With your tank I would probably hire the gear initially(Don't forget to hump this gear around you need a people carrier or something very similar)so if you have an ordinary car you'll have to buy something bigger if you want your own gear.Here's some ideas from the Northern courses.Newcastle Tatts Flat-Any number as long as it's in the numbers £2500 approx,York or Chester number just outside the numbers maybe &1000.Forget about most jumps especially Cheltenham,the place is useless unless you have a cracking pitch.I don't know what the crack is at Kempton over the jumps (there's been too many pitches up for sale recently there) but a silver ring pitch there just for boxing day could be a decent buy but I'd want to ask around why there's been so many pitches up for sale recently.As said earlier don't buy a number at Chester & York as they clash too often.

kempton boxing day is workable but not what it was (where is). do not be tempted to go the following day.

last post now from me
the whitbread last year wasnt a shadow on the year before
in fact pretty certain i packed down after 5 or 6
did get a result in church island ( cheers jimnast )
laters

Yesteryear i remember bookies had margins on their side, the current ones standing should remember that.  There is no point moaning about no margins and always losing.

I take it that was directed at me.  Not actually true about the margins.  In the "good old days" those in the good pitches bet to good figures but those in the back lines pulled the nuts off them.  There was many a time that we used to rub down because they were betting overbroke in and out & we had to wait for the punters to settle on one.  I have seen a fairly well respected Northern bookmaker getting explained to him that he was betting overbroke on his own board.

Now there is no brainpower involved.  Put it a shade under the exchange price & crack away.  Like to see some of the new boys operate in the back lines with no exchanges, adding up your board (and sometimes your book if the clerk was a bit slow) in your head.

Lots of advice for Fairtrader but i get the distinct feeling....Three months max.

thats sound of ya

wasnot


you mention newbies not been able to work out percentages,well at the new year meeting at ayr a scottish bookmaker with at least 20 years behind him was betting to 91% in the win book,one had been withdrawwn around 20 mins before the race and whilst he had withdrawn it the exchange hadnt,we could all see he had a q it took kj to point out to him he may struggle to win on the race if he continued to bet like that.

Fairtrader - Epsom Derby Tatts/Silver is very workable for a couple of days and wont cost much. You can pick a cheap pitch at Bath up, but go no more than twice a year. Newbury - Some of the summer saturdays are ok. All those pitches are within your budget.

Places to avoid - Chepstow, Goodwood (Festival), AW, NH Winter,

A lot of sound advice but I think some are forgetting the fixed costs when suggesting that only one or two days are worked.
eg.  GC will be £500 in first year,  Levy £200 ,  Public Liability Ins £200, Northern racing annual fee £150 from 2012 and likely to be copied by other courses.  You are likely to have extra car insurance when you tell them you are working as a on-course bookmaker.

wasnot, you say JCR will want stupid money come 2012.  Then suggest Chester and York.  Do you not think that they will not want stupid money as well ?  Or are you privy to what's being proposed by the various racecourse groups ?

Discussions are confidential IanP so I am only privy to agreed proposals same as everyone, not what is being discussed.  That being said, the rumour factory is working overtime.

Can only say it as I see it currently.  Surely no-one would pack in their job and invest at the moment when they dont know what they are buying?  A position just outside the numbers at York and Chester would enable you to bet whenever you wanted to and not cost a fortune hence you are not risking much.  Perhaps I should have spelt it out - thought everyone would have understood.

the york bubble outside the numbers as surely burst?everyone noticed all the shrewdies had them last year and now about another dozen have been bought,changes the landscape somewhat.

has!

Another salient point is that just because they want silly money does not mean they will get it.  The fact that you can get on to any of their "premier" meetings from outside the numbers tell you that there are plenty of books who dont want to go under the current arrangements, goodness knows how few books Chester would get in tatts if the payments went beyond 5x.  Only ever half full on Saturdays now!

fairtrader

if you do get going make sure you avoid all the miserable sods on the racecourse,you will soon get to know who they are.

fairtrader a good place to start would be derby day.you can get a joint built for 40 pound and its 90 to bet.no need to buy a pitch but you need your license and public liability.

......and pay £200 levy even if you work just derby day.

i dont think he is going to just work derby day ian.at least he shold win.

So how many of you shrewdies made a profit on course last year????

traded last 6 months , NO PROFIT

We all win every day because we lay them at 2/1 on course and then back them back at 4/1 on here - havent you heard?

wasnot-You dont seem to be doing it very well at TOWCESTER!!!!!

halfsoldier
I would think all who've posted on here would have made a profit last year.My profit was down on the year but still got a decent wage.The reason I say this is because we are all fortunately fairly established & have some decent pitches whereas someone setting away unless he is fortunate in being able to buy into decent positions will struggle.When I first set away in the 80s I got skint every year for years but I battled through like a lot of the established books.On course bookmaking is not an easy game to break into,it's dog eat dog.That's probably the reason I've been posting on this thread,if I can help someone into the game who has limited funds then I will.As I said earlier I was forever getting skint,but if Fairtrader takes on board the advice he has been giving on here he may have a chance & that's only MAY.

You do know I wasnt being serious dont you?

At Towcester its nearer to laying 4/1 & having the option of backing back at 2/1 on here

I would have assumed that Barry Dennis is fairly established and has some decent pitches,and he has told you that he has made NO PROFIT in the last six months!!!!!

Since Oct Ive been to the following:

Paddy Power Meeting Cheltenham - Lost Both days
Hennessey Newbury - Lost
Rearranged King George Meeting Kempton - Lost
Cheltenham Trials Day - Lost

Didnt make Chelt December Meeting - Would have lost

Did win New Years Day - 1 out of 6 aqint bad [smiley:crazy]

6 months isn't a year,if you'd asked in the last 6 months well that's a different question.
The National Hunt is notoriously hard to win at during the winter,only two or three decent days.Why do you think on course bookmakers take their holidays during winter?In many cases it's cheaper to go on holiday than to stand trying to make a book at this time of the year.If I was to check my books from the start of October I've probably lost & I've only been out half a dozen times & that includes two points.

allpoints

my point last week about outside money i could have put better,i fully accept somebody just starting up needs a safety net and as you rightly advised earlier dont give up your full time job,what i should have said those who openly brag about how much they make away from racecourse bookmaking means this is just a game to them,even on the sunday that week at market rasen a workman tells the rest of the silver ring if its no good today it doesnt matter as he gets a million a year out off his other job.

jimnast
In those cases I think we both have the same reaction,fcuk off clever cnut.They sharp get sorted out & find lifes hard if they want to go along that route.If they want to enjoy the racing they've got to mix in,nearly all of the biggest layers in the North I regard as friends & I'm a pauper.Not one of these big layers has ever given me any earache about how much they have & as you know plenty of them have plenty.Even these big layers need help sometime so it's a hard life if you've burnt your boats.

a million a year and he is standing in market rasen silver ring in deepest winter,must be a real enthusiast.

Hi Wassy.  You should know that if i make a comment aimed at anyone there would be no confusion as i would address it directly to that individual.

My comment was not aimed at you specifically, sorry if you took personal offence.  It was just a general comment aimed at the industry as a whole and i include myself on certain occasions. We keep moaning about margins but we are the ones putting the prices on the board so have to take some responsibility.

Evening Gents, Thanks for all the advice.

I already work in the industry so I won't be a slave to the exchanges, when I worked at the races I disagreed with the reliance of many books on here or daq so wanted to learn the trade the proper way. Now I feel like I have enough experience to at least give on-course a proper go.

I'm sure its very different playing with your own money, but if you stay disciplined and bet properly I'm sure I will make enough to satisfy my modest needs.

A couple here say avoid the AW............why? Is it the attendances and resulting poor turnover?

more likely, 4/1 into 6/4 5 mins b4 off, bolts in.

How's it going,FAIRTRADER, Did you buy any pitches, how did you go on re join, board and computer.

fairtrader, forget goodwood meetings(useless) and the main meeting is even worse, forget folkstone its near impossible to win, as the guy said forget royal ascot tatts(the exes will make it near impossibleto win)ive gotta goodwood main and an off and i just dont bother going.i dont do lingfield turf but others who do say its ok sometimes.as for the winter game dont even consider it, i do hardly very few winter days and next year ill do next to none.good luck with your plans, for me ill be doing my local course brighton plumpton, and the evenings ans nights at fontwell,  ill do newmarket (july course only) royal ascot  (heath , exes are next to nothing so no pressure to take chunks of money) and point to points , as fior the rest id swerve it.

fairtrader, forget goodwood meetings(useless) and the main meeting is even worse, forget folkstone its near impossible to win, as the guy said forget royal ascot tatts(the exes will make it near impossibleto win)ive gotta goodwood main and an off and i just dont bother going.i dont do lingfield turf but others who do say its ok sometimes.as for the winter game dont even consider it, i do hardly very few winter days and next year ill do next to none.good luck with your plans, for me ill be doing my local course brighton plumpton, and the evenings ans nights at fontwell,  ill do newmarket (july course only) royal ascot  (heath , exes are next to nothing so no pressure to take chunks of money) and point to points , as fior the rest id swerve it.

the best advice is to ignore anything you are told during january and february


all those who know what they're doing are away on holiday

name 5 thatgone on holiday

if we all took a leaf out of your book adge we,d have no missus no kids living at home with us mam and all be on here making out we,re the bee knees

sorry johnny i'm still somewhat jetlagged , i got back sunday afternoon
will be up and running next week , though

Thanks for the advice chaps. I managed to get all the equipment, except for the umbrella, for £3k so I was pleased with that. Haven't brought any pitches yet as I worked for my father in law last summer so just starting to look now.I was interested in the Sandown Flat (30) for sale for the eclipse and music days, any advice here? Also any advice regarding the situation at Epsom would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

if most books on course lose in winter, why are there books at these tracks

jrw that is one of lifes mysterys !!

Faitrader.... I am  bit worried about the questions you are asking......If you have worked on a racecourse before
you would no most of the answers.. Joint hire,lights,and the such plus the decent courses and pitch layouts.

We all have to start somewhere.. but it is a concern that books are coming into the ring with no knowledge.

Went to one course where a guy had bought a pitch and set up on his list number and would not move, till the ring manager marked his card and told him there was a picking order involved. He did not have a clue.

Since this GC thingy came in it has changed for the worst I fear.

Any way good luck, just take it easy to start with...

Faitrader.... I am  bit worried about the questions you are asking......If you have worked on a racecourse before
you would no most of the answers.. Joint hire,lights,and the such plus the decent courses and pitch layouts.

We all have to start somewhere.. but it is a concern that books are coming into the ring with no knowledge.

Went to one course where a guy had bought a pitch and set up on his list number and would not move, till the ring manager marked his card and told him there was a picking order involved. He did not have a clue.

Since this GC thingy came in it has changed for the worst I fear.

Any way good luck, just take it easy to start with...

fairtrader,
epsom...as you don't have a bid in the current mess you have an advantage.i would expect there to be a good number of vacant pitches after the first round of bids or non bids.
then it opens up to all so you would then need to know how many unsold and in what area before making any offer.whatever you decide don't go much above the minimum offer
however , a better bet is the lower tattenham enclosure where any seniority number up to 50 is worth an interest , and you know where you stand in there. don't consider a tatts pitch under any terms
it will be worth going but don't get tempted to go any other day but derby day

Hope you had a good hol. adge. Fairtrader if you follow up your inerest in Sandown Flat Tatts 30 I hope you get on ok - heck knows what the vendor means by 'realistically priced' ? Knowing him be prepared to pay something that ends in 995 !!!

Democrat.
Good luck for next week.
Will your pitch be used at Hunts and fakenham next week?
Thanks in advance.

my huntingdon will be vacant , steve

democrat yes thank you and you do mean 995p

Neither being used steve. Shame Huntingdon was used this week !! Good luck wherever you go. Lots of good things next week adge - I expect your 'rep' will be having a lean up with all of them !!

Thanks Demo.
Amazed to hear you attended on Sunday, you are usually a better judge!

Amazed myself Steve - had told others in advance that I might go and despite horrendous weather forecast did not want to disappoint them and change my mind. Highlight of the day was a lady punter describing AJH as a 'sex machine' !!!! I

Amazed myself Steve - had told others in advance that I might go and despite horrendous weather forecast did not want to disappoint them and change my mind. Highlight of the day was a lady punter describing AJH as a 'sex machine' !!!! I

Amazed myself Steve - had told others in advance that I might go and despite horrendous weather forecast did not want to disappoint them and change my mind. Highlight of the day was a lady punter describing AJH as a 'sex machine' !!!! I

Amazed myself Steve - had told others in advance that I might go and despite horrendous weather forecast did not want to disappoint them and change my mind. Highlight of the day was a lady punter describing AJH as a 'sex machine' !!!! I

Amazed myself Steve - did not want to disappoint others who were involved despite horrendous weather forecast. Highlight of the day was a lady punter describing AJH as a 'sex machine' !! I kid you not !

democrat,

Could you repeat that!

get your joint made by an ironmonger, mine could withstand a hurricane and cost me 80 punts and will be in action long after im gone

get your joint made by an ironmonger, mine could withstand a hurricane and cost me 80 punts and will be in action long after im gone

it seems he's developed a stutter ... or it's the beer consumption

course bookies are full time arbers  now

course bookies are full time arbers  now

all of them , stocky ?

Y-y-y-y-y-y-ess all of them adge. So no views on how your 'rep.' will handle those short ones next week ? You know he likes to keep them on his side Seeing as you mentioned beer - were you on Bud. on your hols. ?

OK Alan, so you were sitting in the sun. I, however, was sitting in the Ols Bell.. contemplating with mouth watering nrelish my third pint of Black Sheep Special of the evening.

Still haven't managed to try the Absolute Bastrd tho' ! 

it is strange how you can get british beers in california that you can't in florida
the full range of sam smiths for starters , yes i did shift a few of that paticular one , paddy

also found a world beers store in new orleans that had orkney island brewary "skullsplitter " amongst their selection

the nearest i get to american beer in the bars is draft becks , democrat , but they don't have any glasses big enough. only seem to sell beer in thimbles

Skullsplitter sounds very strong adge - I hope you din't have too many ! Amazing that you managed to find acceptable brews across the pond ! As for thimbles to drink out of - I trust that did not restrict your intake too much

adge

sams smiths in calafornia ?

it kept the barman busy , serving one mouthful at a time democrat
it's everywhere , jimnast , must sell more there than in yorkshire

incredable adge,theres one near parliment in london and one at montpelier in cheltenham,i thought they were the 2 furthist away from yorkshire/manchester.

do they sell the taddy lager in them in america ?

evening lads best pint of sam smiths i ever tasted was in that gorgeous little pub in rufforth (near york) often had 4/5 pints after a hard day on the stool on the knavesmire lol cant beat cali though alan

its a good job you never had them before you got on the stool dave.

hansome cab in york decent sam smiths house hard to find though.

yes , jimnast but it's the pint bottles. i think there wer eight different brews including the lager and a 6% special christmas brew. i usually get the porter and oatmeal stout

glad to see there doing ok in america,after the gaffer fell out with the music rights people some of the pubs around here are struggling.

What's going on with the bookies names on the AGT lists?  Martyn of Leicester is now listed as Martyn of Leicester/Amazon/Gold Flag/Imperial/Omega/Pyramid/Red Rum Racing and Barry R Johnson is now listed as Barry R Johnson Ltd/Quantum and Bet Delta are Bet Delta Ltd/Betit ?????????????????????????????

Royal Oak at Tadcaster very good pint of Sam Smiths.Three pints and change from a fiver

just seen it wasnot hope its a fault with the system.


chatto my local is 3 pints for less than a fiver.

My local is more than a fiver for 2 pints   Good ale though

as long as its good it doesnt matter.

Hi Wassy
Brj is a Ltd Co.  as he regularly stands 3 pitches in the same ring, sometimes next to each other, he has set up a trading name.  2 pitches now BRJ, one Quantum.  Punter perception is they are different bookies, altho in reality all bets go thru to the master.
A Quantum step forward in bookmaking.

Cost at GC is £25.

Brj copied Delta.  I assumnme the smarter invester did not want to be outdone.

Cheers sugarsteve1.

lol @ jimnast sometimes think it might be better to have a few beers before racing so i can understand the punters