Pontefract...Bookmakers ....1/6 the odds e/w men strike again.

name them

I heard the on course office has been moved and is very much chaotic, due to lack of size and entrances.

Way things are saddo theyll have to extend it

name and shame these leeches

Nearly all going win only in the maiden and the ones who werent were betting 1/6. Come racing indeed

there were enough offering correct place odds for everyone to get on.Do you go on other forums complaining that different shops have different prices ?Use your head get the best deal,there were plenty of prices available above the price on here BEFORE commission and PC !!

Dans Mother..The race I commented on was the 4-20.Other than Paul
Johnson,Pat Whelan,Kevin Routledge,and 1 other who I cannot remember the Tatts books I saw were generally 1/5th the odds first 4.
The multi-pitch lot were 1/6th the odds.No wonder the "shouters" on the front of the joints looked sheepish!

im sure paul johnson and pat whelen could easily have managed to serve anyone who could be botherered to look for 1/5 th the odds :) (given todays crowd ) im not sure, why the public dont look round for best price instead of just betting at the first joint they come to !

sorry 1/4

it pretty simple - normal place odds - overbroke, 1/5th betting to 1 %. A few jumped up keyboard warriors should try it. this is peoples business - they pay tax and the levy on top of the BS they pay on business conducted on here. Get ovr yerself.

corbie stop defending course bookmakers,we can do that ourselves,and stick to defending hills and ladbrokes !!

Corbie - it certainly is not simple. As a bookie you are faced with 4 choices.

1. Bet to correct place terms & pull in the win prices, thus "doing" the punter on the win half of the bet
2. Bet to worse place terms & get roundly abused for "doing" the punters & get called a disgrace
3. Bet win only & get abused by your potential customers who all want to be on EW
4. Bet to correct place terms & correct win prices & swallow the loss yourself. Everyone calls you a fine fellow except your family that you are attempting to provide for

Not easy, is it?

as wasnot has done very well :)

Its not the 1/5th.I object to,its the 1/6th.Even at 1/5th sometimes you can only bet to just over 100%,but that doesn't mean you won't win on the race.1/6th is definately extracting the proverbial,especially mid-week when the punters are fighting to be on,and books are using 3
computers to try and keep up with all the business...lol.

some races are impossible to bet 1/5 th on (8 runners with an odds on chance for example)even if you are willing to have a loss leader ,the win odds will suffer.you have a choice,best win odds or best place odds,both are likely to be better than on here ,by the way !! :)

In such circumstances why don't punters just phone through their bets to one of the big off course bookmakers?

odi because the off course prices are nowhere near as big as on course

and because if you want to bet offcourse in tricky each way races ,you CANT have a bet !!

I'm sure that the quarter odds would make up for it

not usually,which would you prefer 16/1 1/4 odds or 20/1 1/5th ??

bookmakers should bet to the correct place terms, or win only

they have a choice to refuse a bet..

this 1/6 1/7th nonsense is a disgrace.

in my opinion betting to 1/6th on VERY bad each way races is sensible,you would be giving punters a choice.but as we know certain people are taking the p1ss !unfortunately the punters obviously dont like it ,so i and some others have stopped,by the way why has nobody praised the books who offer enhanced place odds ?one book offered better than standard on over 20 races at cheltenham !!you can now bet 1/4 frst 2 in FOUR runner races,1/3 first two 1n 5/6/7 ,1/4 odds in 12 and over stakes races,first 5 in h/caps over 25 runners,:) come racing !!!

Dans Mother...didn't go to Cheltenham this year......who was the book
who offered the enhanced odds?Pleased you've stopped taking the pliss
by the way,main thing is when you stop taking money you cannot win
whatever each way terms you offer......less punters ...less money.......
take the unowhat punters don't turn up,or bet on the nanny,or in the
course office.The Pink Princess firm have some loss leaders,free bet,
both results,etc etc...doesn't cost a lot...at least they are trying.

i had a walk down to the 3rd ring easton racing 1/7th odds display hidden where are your ring officials

to be fair 2 books bet 1/5th the other win only guess who had the biggest q

On course bookies havent got fobs to make up their income, so they have to bet to a viable percentage. The Gambling Commissions job was to bring in terms which were fair to all, most books adhere to this, just a minority giving the good ones a bad name.

^ Good point.

I noticed threee books on the rails at Aintree offering 1/5 odds on 16-21 runner handicaps, Johnson, Cook,Hughes.The remainder were all offering the standard 1/4 and seemingly running their business, despite a non level playing field.However,what they are doing, is respecting the wishes of their customers. Any businessman who ignores their constant complaints has no eye on the future of his affairs. The voluntary code will come - and leading firms such as mine will sign up immediately, because I've always offered the standard, and strange terms such as a sixth disgust me, and to those who think 1/5 will suffice, I respectfully suggest to you - my friends, to remove those heads from the sand. When the flags arrive, you will be isolated and competing with the leaders will be untenable. Abandon exchange following - it's not pleasing your customer base, it's a cynical attempt to convey every penny out there onto betfair-daq

I heard 2 guys at a racecourse once comparing their bets.
One was pleased that he got 1/6th which he thought was better
than the 1/5th that his mate got.

:-(

To be fair, the maths is all wrong at 1/4 1234 on 16-22 runner h'caps. 1/4 odds first 4 should be viewed as a concession on these races, not the norm.

I only ever bet to 1/4 or 1/5 and the only time I vary the terms from the old terms is these 16-22 runner h'caps. The reason is simply that I want to offer proper odds to my customers, not pull them in. The net effect is that they receive the same place odds but better win odds than if I was 1/4 1234. On this my conscience is clear.

If the oncourse betting offices are still prepared to lay the correct place terms,they will do more and more trade leaving less money for the ring.I am surprised at how busy some of the oncourse shops are,although to be expected now.

ringlets paul johnson and joe chad mostly

UB

Can you take a price in the on course shops? :)

not really an apt username unbiased :( as you well know you cant take a price in the on course shops,and they restrict you on the tricky races,and at sp you will be taking a smaller price anyway

Place your bets before you go to the course, and distribute leaflets warning people of the 1/6 merchants. We see people moan about it time and time again on here, yet these big ashot Betfair punters do nothing about it.

moring daniels r u goig to beverley today on your new number?

morning and going.

The argument about "getting on at the old terms in the shops" is flawed. The prices conveyed to the shops are smaller than the vast majority of prices in the ring so they can afford to offer the old terms. The off course just need to get people through the door to play on their machines. Whether or not they make much money from horses is not as important.

my local billys was open for 14 hours on good friday just for the machines,they only took £300 over the counter on foreign ad cartoon racing.

morning artful,just doing the form now,raring to go :)

Unbaised thanks to the Gambling Commision their is no such thing as "proper Place Terms" and here lies the big problem nobody is in the wrong in offering whatever place terms they deem fit/what I can get away with

wrap up warm and dont forget your yellow championship hat.lol

As ive stated previously the place odds and rules 4 are way outdated in todays modern market.
When were these last modernised, the 1960s pre decimalisation.
In those days 99.99% punters and probably 99%of bookmakers wouldnt realise they were betting overbroke.
Times change and so should the industry, yes perhaps there should be a code of conduct but the place terms and rule 4 needs to be brought up to date soon and to be fair to both bookmakers/ punters.

cloudy dry and windy about 11 degrees expected,my AMBER hat will be in attendance :)

Daniels mother ,you say at sp you will be taking a shorter price in the shops.Shorter than what??!!Bad sp return?Shorter than on here?Shorter than freely available?Not necessarily so.If I want a 50 each way in a shop at sp,no problem,and who is to say it will be shorter,as it may not be one of the fancied horses.The point being the service is available.

daniels.in your weather forcast you forgot COLD just like at ponte yesterday.lol

Good post shadder,you hit the naill on the head.It is the variation that is upsetting punters.Yes you can,no you can't.needs sorting.

unbiased - I think shadder is suggesting modernisation of the place & rule 4 terms to a position that is more favourable to the bookmaker. I agree with him.

unbiased on the type of races we are talking about(not the rip off merchants,which is another issue )the shorter price horses will usually be bigger on course than on here or off course.getting on off course on theses races is almost impossible and will almost certainly be at lower odds.there are races were you can bet several horses at sp and make a profit (but not many :( ) and even at 1/6th odds when the fav is odds on,the place terms will be better than here

wasnot 14 Apr 09:36
To be fair, the maths is all wrong at 1/4 1234 on 16-22 runner h'caps. 1/4 odds first 4 should be viewed as a concession on these races, not the norm.

I only ever bet to 1/4 or 1/5 and the only time I vary the terms from the old terms is these 16-22 runner h'caps. The reason is simply that I want to offer proper odds to my customers, not pull them in. The net effect is that they receive the same place odds but better win odds than if I was 1/4 1234. On this my conscience is clear.

Ok so lets review the place terms on 7 runner hcaps 13 14 15 runner hcaps 21-30 runner hcaps. listed races with more than 10 runners need i go on?

the R4 has needed sorting at least 10 years ago (pre btfr)hope we dont have to wait this sort of length of time for the each way terms to be sorted.i used to use 1/6 odds on s*** maidens,but will never do it again starting this year,if normal place terms dont fit its win only.

robin most oncourse books would happily do that.all i ask is the place is about the same as the win.

Bookmakers want it allways. They allways will

robin

daniels mother 14 Apr 00:45
in my opinion betting to 1/6th on VERY bad each way races is sensible,you would be giving punters a choice.but as we know certain people are taking the p1ss !unfortunately the punters obviously dont like it ,so i and some others have stopped,by the way why has nobody praised the books who offer enhanced place odds ?one book offered better than standard on over 20 races at cheltenham !!you can now bet 1/4 frst 2 in FOUR runner races,1/3 first two 1n 5/6/7 ,1/4 odds in 12 and over stakes races,first 5 in h/caps over 25 runners,:) come racing !!!

robinlace;at ponte yesterday the 2nd race place book way overbroke so i went win only,the first 15 or so people who came to bet with me,12 wanted each way,7 of those for the second horse.(happy days).but yet the seven runner 2mile race,we didnt strike an each way bet.THE PUNTERS WANT IT ALLWAYS.

been out and seemed to have missed a healthy discussion
seems quite balanced

theressomepratsonhere..come and say hello next week.

Daniels mother,I wasn't comparing with prices on here,you were.
Considering you can back place only on here,which is a totally separate market there should not be any compairing when discussing each way.The comparing should be between the oncourse books.
To say punters are taking a bad price when backing place only compared with oncourse each way does not stand up as you are not having to lay out the win money.

robinlace - last year I experimented with 1/3 odds 1-2 on 5-7 runner races (all, not just handicaps), 1/4 Odds 123 all sales races & open looking maidens & other stakes races, plus 1/4 odds 1234 all 16+ runner h'caps.

The first 2 were a dismal failure as I took no more money (despite large yellow signs pointing out the concession plus how much better it was) & the 3rd was a financial disaster that I simply was unable to sustain.

As such I have gone back to the old terms except 1/5 1234 on 16-22 runner h'caps with bigger odds as that is what my customers appear happiest with. At the end of the day, you guys on here are not my customers & keeping you happy is not my concern.

unbiased ,
just out of interest are you admitting how poor the betfair place odds are by comparison with that statement please ?

unbiased - on a dodgy EW race the course bookmaker is often faced with 110% book on the win market & 85% book on the place market. Betfair is 105% on both (taking into account commission). Where should the clever money go in your opinion?

Certainly not adge,just pointing out that it is a WRONG comparison.A totally different market.It is the bookmakers ,like yourself,who always want to use it as a comparison.There is no e.w. on here.It is a WIN market and a PLACE market.Simples.

I am sure you are not missing the point wasnot,read the posts.I know you do not support ,as posted by you,the big variations of terms in the ring by your fellows.

accepted but as regards the place part you provided a politicians answer.
anyway sorry to have to leave..off to beverley now

me too :)

RINGLETS,u say the majority of the ring not offering the correct place terms & only four giving a quarter.U seem to think the punter doesnt understand the diference between a quarter and a sixth,so for the uneducated racegoers that go racing,could u please NAME the offending bookmakers please,yours waiting...........

RINGLETS,on the other side of the coin,i can name u plenty of oncourse books bigger than the machine,NO COMMISSION NO PREMIUM CHARGE,COME RACING,PUNTERS NEVER HAD IT SO GOOD,,FACT.