Howellsy, there is a difference between giving one`s opinion and being arrogant and patronising.

Less of the pompous comments and Lay the 60 odd quid at 6.4, 6.6 and 6.8 that`s been there for over 24 hours for Broome.

Surely we don't have to go into why record time or fast times for one race meaning nothing on their own?

My reasons why Sir Percy's Derby was a poor winning performance was the 4 raced maiden Dragon Dancer finished a short head second and SP only managed to get the better of him in the last strides. DG was talked up after the Derby but as I remember it was still no good. Yes Dylan Thomas finished 3rd but he went off 25/1 because he wasn't anything like as good as the horse he developed into later. The once raced Hala Bek was 3rd only half a length behind the winner. The vastly overrated Visindar, who went off a laughably short 2/1, was only 2.5 lengths behind the winner. Best Alibi was only 3.5 lengths behind the winner. So we have a Derby with only 3.5 lengths covering the first 5 home. 4 of which went on to do not very much at all.

Oh and back to the time, when compared with other times on the day it was crap

We will take the long route.

Thoroughbred Owner & Breeder magazine April 2007

Global Horsepower, as reflected by the World Thoroughbred Racehorse Rankings 2006
Heading .... "Sir Percy's Derby has been criticised for its lack of quality.
However, the world rankings suggest it could be ... the best race in the world?"

About 189 horses ranked in the ratings in 2006

Leading races producing ranked horses
Epsom Derby, Britain, 5 horses
Belmont Stakes, USA, 3 horses
Breeders' Cup Classic, USA, 3 horses
King George VI & QE II, Britain, 3 horses
Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe, France, 3 horses
Queen Elizabeeth II Stakes, Britain, 3 horses
Yasuda Kinen, Japan, 3 horses

Where ranked horses were trained:
USA 63; Britain 47; Japan 23; France 21; Ireland 13; Germany 8, Hong Kong 2; Italy 2; Australia 1

"The first five home in the Derby, led home by Sir Percy (far right), were given world rankings - a higher tally than any other race in 2006.

.....................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

I am not saying it is the highest ranked English Derby ever.
It was the race in 2006 with the highest number of horses that appeared in the 189 top ranked horses worldwide.

The comment, without data or analysis, that it was one of the worst Derbys, is just your opinion.

Have to add though that just because a race in early June may contain horses that end up highly ranked at the end of a season(on some people's opinion) I don't see how that automatically translates that the winning performance on the day was a high level one, but each to their own.

Saritamer, thanks for the correction. Yes, Telecaster will need to be supplemented (it cost Dee Ex Bee 100k euros in 2018). I was merely assuming (not checking) he was when the media reported "he'd run in the Irish Derby". I hope he runs in Epsom, but I do not think he will given the hard race he's had in the Dante, supplementary fee and also the proximity of the Dante to the Derby; the Irish version would be a better option given it's over 6 weeks after the Dante and not just over two weeks as with the English Derby.

I think not even AOB knows how good Broome is as he's such a lazy runner who only wakes up when he's encouraged; he's yet having to battle further than 8f, but his change of speed running to the line impressed his jockey and AOB.

The original assumption was No TDH = No SD, but Telecaster (T) has appeared on the scene as replacement. But, the original assumption still applies for me ie No T = No SD.

For those of you who want the Derby winner - look no further than Broome.  Both his races this year were over 1 mile 2 furlongs and he won going away each time.  If both of those races were over 2 furlongs longer he would have won both by 10 lenghts.  Look at his last race in Leopardstown - at the winning line he is going away from the opposition.  The race before that he won by 8 lengths going away.  In both races he came from off the pace and quickened up very well.  He has a lot more experience than his stable companion Sir Dragonet and Epsom and the extra 2 furlongs will suit him down to the ground.  I can certainly see him winning the Epsom Derby as he has all the qualities to be a champion.

Raise You impressive again at Newmarket so another clue that Bangkok is special.

sageform
18 May 19 14:14
Joined: 15 Jun 01 | Topic/replies: 13,874 | Blogger: sageform's blog
Raise You impressive again at Newmarket so another clue that Bangkok is special.

yeah I thought that won very easily. looked like different level to the opposition so if they think Bangkok is better than him he must be some horse.

interesting that he's not even the best three year old on ratings that has been sired by his broodmare. that is matterhorn with an rpr of 120 but Bangkok could improve past that in the derby.

looks an ideal type for the race for me as he travels and quickens. sir dragonet stays very well but will struggle to hold his ground and might have to make up a huge amount of distance in the last few furlongs. I love the way that Bangkok quickened at sandown. also ideal prep seemingly as that was a while back and didn't have a hard race recently like telecaster.

the more I look at this race, the more I'm loving the kok!

Sorry, that should read; are you sure Telecaster had a hard race on Thursday?

No science whatsoever behind it. Sometimes what we're seeing is maybe a horse that's peaked too soon. But no science behind that either

Some horses may look like they have had a hard race but it could be deceptive. Others may be tougher than average and even though they've had a hard race they're able to recover quicker than the norm. But it's like most things with this game, you're just making a judgement on what you think usually happens on average. Unlike with the jumps, it's almost impossible to treat these young flat horses as individual cases as we just haven't seen enough of them to know. All I can say is in general if there were two horses that have run to a very similar level recently, as I believe Sir Dragonet and Telecaster have, going forward I would much prefer the one that was able to do it in the manner SD did.

Going: Good, Good to Firm in places; little precipitation expected until thursday, Oaks and Derby days of about 25mm total, according to the present forecast.

4th in guineas  derby winner  madhmoon anyone?

I think Madhmoon would have a good chance if staying the trip similarly, Surfman...and he needs to improve too to be effective. But, AOB has both hands firmly on the race, I believe.

A probable bombshell for Sir Dragonet backers and supporters: He may head to Chantilly for the French Derby, according to AOB at Naas this afternoon; Persian King beware.

The market has reacted with Broome (9/2) heading the market and Anthony Van Dyck (5/1); Sir Dragonet's matched at 8 and more (here).

I can only assume they're trying to set it up for Broome so that Australia can have a Derby winner. If they had decided to wait for the Irish Derby, fair enough, but France - 10 furlongs? This is threatening to be the worst Derby for decades.

did aob say anything about his other derby hopes ? thank you

Nothing on Japan just decision to supplement SR for the French one as late as possible to 27th May - final decs; Just Wonderful and Happen will join Hermosa in the Irish 1000G.

I agree it sounds like nonsense. Some of their other runners would be more suited to being rerouted to the French Derby than Sir Dragonet who will stay the trip at Epsom better than most.

What about Western Australia for an outsider ? His form with Magna Grecia at Doncaster is rock solid .