King George Chase - Kempton

imo mite bite is better going left handed ,ok i know he was hosing up in the feltham but that was not the best race tbh ,also the undulations at chelt seem to suit better than a flatish track so could improve a lot going back left handed .

Right-handed or left-handed track,...please do not even go there. It is sufficiently difficult to pick winners on level weight, conducive ground and formlines without bringing an additional factor into the equation; either a horse wins or it does not, all things being equal. Keep it simple!

impossible123 29 Dec 17 16:30 
Right-handed or left-handed track,...please do not even go there. Either a horse wins or it does not, all things being equal.


If ever a post was made to make someone look an utter idiot (not that he needs much help) this is it.

Oh dear! A new sponsor for the race - it's 'Ladcrookes' for the next 5 years. Will anyone be able to get on after their PR Eclipse revelation at Sandown recently? Why does horse racing not able to attract sponsorship other than from bookies? Is it because the bookies are the only entities able to outbid unrelated/external entities?

Or is the game too toxic only the bookies can afford and too willing to be associated with? At this rate post my time following the sport horse racing/betting could account for a tiny portion of their business model.

I hope Altior turns up for this year's renewal as he'd be very special come Cheltenham esp if he wins this well. And, along with Tiger Roll (National) these two National Hunt behemoths could once again help to light up the entire jump season; Klassical Dream could be another one, and Samcro if he regains his early promise prior to his lung infection diagnosis.

I would love to see a market to name the winning trainer. I would be on Nicholls but which horse? Cyrname might not stay but he would beat Clan des Obeaux if he does imo. Both have the KG as their main target which helps while Altior might stay over 2 miles again. Colin Tizzard has 3 or 4 that could be placed but none of them look quite good enough to win.

This is the race earmarked for Altior unless he bombs out in the Christy Chase over 2m 5f at Ascot on Nov 23 - if so, back to Champion Chase, according to Hendo. Otherwise The Gold Cup would be under serious consideration.

Yes I read that yesterday, I can see where they are coming from as he does seem to take a while to get into top gear.

I hope he wins the Christy Chase over 2m 5f well on Nov 23rd, and heads to Kempton on Boxing Day with confidence - he already has class in abundance; 11/4 is the present price. Then the Gold Cup (hopefully).

The Flat season is over (just Doncaster next week) and forget about Breeders Cup. So, let's focus on the sticks. Will Altior be just as accomplished over this distance as he's been over 16f? He's going to the Christy Chase next month as a prelude (if it goes well) for this race; he's 3.65 to back here.

the form of the jlt won by defi de seul is looking red hot ,lostingtranslation ,vindication ( off 151)
)both winning since and capeland a long way back would have gone close yesterday at ascot but for the chaos at the last .

lostingtrans goes in again at carlilse

A very good display of jumping from Lostintranslation, and he easily overwhelmed his oppositions. He's destined here post Betfair Chase then
the Blue Riband  - £1m bonus if victorious in all 3. I think this trip might still be too sharp for him, but I do like him a lot for The Gold Cup at Cheltenham next March.

looking at the possibles we have the front 2 not proven over the trip, last years winner looks pretty solid but around 6/1 after a good run in ire , mullins dont send many to kempton ,lostintrans also a bit short imo, la bague au r dint cover herself in glory getting weight on sat , frodon trip? mite bite issues + hard race in last years gold cup seems to have left a mark  ?  bris de mai had a few gos at the kg , big price tho   and if wins betfair chase  price drops  have had a few she kles on .

Not very original but I took the 7/1 on last years winner straight after his good run at Down Royal.

altior and cyrname clash at ascot over 2.4 miles if one gets well beat by the other chances are wont line up in this .

Will continue to back Cyrname until he is beaten. Have had a speculative punt on Bristol De Mai at 50-1 which I thought was way too big if he turns up. May have another dip once the final line up is known.

Cyrname (15/8) is shading Lostintranslation (2/1) for favouritism; Cyrname the victor over Altior has never done the distance; Lostintranslation look classy when winning the Betfair Chase at Haydock over course specialist Bristol De Mai. He's also the only horse eligible for £1m bonus if winning here and the Gold Cup too.

At Leopardstown on 28th the Savils Chase could see the return of Kemboy (2/1) and Al Boum Photo (9/1, Gold up winner);  Presenting Percy (9/2) and Road To Respect (5/1) are also the possible runners.

Also in Ireland on Boxing Day at Limerick in the Matchbook Novice Chase Samcro (10/11), Faugheen (11/4) and Laurina (7/2) are possibles - a big pointer for the Arkle/JLT/RSA.

I am not convinced that Cyrname will get the trip . For me it is a race to leave alone .

not sure why lostintranslation is running in this . i would go pillar chase and gold cup hes surely the gold cup winner if he only keeps his mojo . your definitely risking his confidence running on a park course on good ground right handed . in my tiny mind connections are making a big mistake . i too dont think cyrname will stay , which has been emphasised by nicholls suggesting cobdens choice is tighter than ruby thinks .  clan des obeaux for me . best of luck

have had a few quid on footpad and at 50s for the gold cup also just in case . what does cyrname do ? will he press on from the front or be ridden with more restraint  with the trip an unknown .

Lostintranslation is running solely for that £1m bonus offered for winning Betfair, this and Gold Cup. Otherwise I'd not have thought we'd see him here if he'd lost at Haydock. I'd go with Clan Des Obeaux over Cyrname who beat a a tired Altior on bad ground who was closing at the line; Cyrname might not stay this trip if ground is testing again.

Are we expecting any Irish runners?

I think Footpad is the only probable as it's Munir and Souede owned and Jacob rides with Walsh having retired.

But why Is Cyrname such a short price fav against Lostintranslation and Clan Des Obeaux (CDO) ? A horse that has never done the distance against a stayer, and last year's winner respectively. But, for his defeat in Ireland CDO would be a lot shorter.

The ground is soft at the moment with heavy rain forecast for the next 2 days with light showers thro' next week until day of race. I'd think very soft going come the race.

Not good news for connections of Cyrname, I'd imagine.

I think Clan Des Obeaux to finish in front of Cyrname could be the best of the day; odds against and a near certainty.

I think the ground will be good to soft; Cyrname will stay, and will win handsomely.

impossible123 20 Dec 19 17:42 
I think Clan Des Obeaux to finish in front of Cyrname could be the best of the day; odds against and a near certainty.


Must be a ife savings job then - please post your £1 bet (Muppet).

^life

I cannot see how CDO's accumulated form looks stronger than Cyrname's.  Yes, he seemed to bolt up in last year's King George, but, lolking back, he didn't beat a field at their best.  Thistlecrack has never gone on after Many Clouds broke his heart; even those encouraged by his recent hurdles run might want to consider how it compares with his previous hurdles form.  He hasn't run to within a stone of his best since that wretched Trials Day three years ago.

Forget the Altior race if you find it hard to assess; his 17 length duffing up of Waiting Patiently in the Ascot chase, and his handicap win before that both point to the same kind of level of form.  He might not get 3 miles, but I can't see any reason why he won't.

Lostintranslation might be the new Messiah - and this might prove it - but for now his level of form just lacks the proof that he has the class to cut it with the absolute best around; I am not for a moment saying he isn't, but I cannot take 15/8.

The most interesting of the remainder, to my eye is Footpad.  Although he seemed not to stay in the Punchestown Stayers hurdle, that was at the end of a season when he didn't seem to see any of his races out.  He wasn't stopping over 2m6f latest, and if they have ironed out his problems, he might be capable of going very close here.

Aso  - never looked like a King George horse or good enough
La Bague Au Roi - Beaten by 100/1 shot last time ......
Thlstlecrack - Superb  return against PP.Kauto , Dessie and Edreon Bleu won this at 11 .....he won't.
Footpad- The one unknown. If back to his best he is very good but...... he was supposed to challenge Altior over 2 miles , doubt he will get 3 miles.
Lostintranslation  - Looked Gold Cup horse at Haydock , but looks as likely as Denman to win a KG. Would he run if not in running for the bonus , I doubt it.
Cyrname - This race will tell us how good he was . I have doubts about the Altior he beat at Ascot .
Clan Des Obeaux- They found his Grade 1 last year in this race. The track and tempo is ideal . The latest multiple winner for me.

CDO is the reigning champion. He's done it at this level beating Thistlecrack last year despite a question mark of quality of the field.
Cyrname claim to fame is beating a tired Altior (1st time out) over 5f further than the latter's been on atrocious ground. But, ground and trip could be an issue this time; beat an off-colour Waiting Patiently; winner of a handicap prior; a probable pacesetter.
Lostintranslation beat BDM - the conqueror of Thistlecrack - at Haydock, and definitely improving.
Footpad was excellent in The Arkle two seasons ago. But, 8f extra and quality of opposition? I'm not sure.

The price of Cyrname is too short on form. And, with a question mark about the trip on (probable) atrocious ground again, a probable pace-setter and against 2 Gp 1 proven trip competitors, I'd oppose esp if the haven opens prior to race.

Impossible123, I think you have the consensus on your side about WP being off colour in the Ascot chase.

By way of thought experiment, imagine how you would weigh that form now, had Cyrname not run in the race, and the rest finished where they did. 

To sustain the position that WP was off colour, you would need to think Pooitologue under performed by a similar amount.

In fact you would be saying that they finished roughly in the proximity to each other that you would expect.

There is at least a chance that that was a really serious performance from Cyrname that day.

And if it was, there is no reason to assume that the ultra game and consistent Altior was particularly under par the last day.

We might differ about how Occam's razor slices all this, but I think that's what makes the race such an enticing prospect.

As for Footpad, there is considerably more evidence about his stamina than the Arkle - vide supra.

Ive laid my bow lux off on cyrname won't get home .....2\1 is a joke let alone 13\8

Footpad dont get the three miles either, ruby told the world that a year or two ago after the nichols canyon beat him

i find peoples comments quite interesting about price and the normal junk without substance to there argument

just one thing from me and that is enjoy the ride harry

oh and happy christmas all

that last two furlongs at ascot provides plenty of substance .....

4 proven stayers and of those aso prob flying too high thistlecrack days off being a 12 yo which leaves lostintrans and clan des obeaux think the course may not play to lit so on that basis clan des ob a smallish bet for me .  have looked closely at cyrnames pedigree and it dont scream  out and out stayer and dont think he gets an easy time up front , if a shock footpad could be the one to deliver it and around 12s as a saver for me .

happy xmas all and good luck.

It's a very fair point about Cyrname's pedigree Foyles, though the damside seemed a bit shallow to make a very strong case.

There are obviously similarities with Frodon, and I paid the price for convincing myself he wouldn't stay on Trials day at Cheltenham.

Whether that painful experience is skewing my judgement here... well, I am paying again to find out.

I am pretty sanguine about it really, in that I am having a fun bet because it's the King George.  Not really the kind of race I would play in otherwise, but it should be an enjoyable watch.

Have a good Christmas one and all.

same here muse , have watching last years race they seemed to go at it hard in front and that eventually found out any non stayers ,a smaller field this time and cyrname could set the fractions but he will be in unknown territory 3 furlongs from home where the stayers should come into their own 11/2 on here for clan with proven record over trip and course looks stonking to me !

same here muse , have watching last years race they seemed to go at it hard in front and that eventually found out any non stayers ,a smaller field this time and cyrname could set the fractions but he will be in unknown territory 3 furlongs from home where the stayers should come into their own 11/2 on here for clan with proven record over trip and course looks stonking to me !

same here muse , have watching last years race they seemed to go at it hard in front and that eventually found out any non stayers ,a smaller field this time and cyrname could set the fractions but he will be in unknown territory 3 furlongs from home where the stayers should come into their own 11/2 on here for clan with proven record over trip and course looks stonking to me !

same here muse , have watching last years race they seemed to go at it hard in front and that eventually found out any non stayers ,a smaller field this time and cyrname could set the fractions but he will be in unknown territory 3 furlongs from home where the stayers should come into their own 11/2 on here for clan with proven record over trip and course looks stonking to me !

footnote in an earlier post i said 4 proven stayers .......aso has never won further than 2.5 miles so 3 proven stayers .

2018 C D O  5m 59.60  gd/sft

2017 MB  6m 6.6  soft

2016 TC 5.53.50  good

2015 CC  6m 3.5  gd/sft

2014 SC  6m 3.3  gd/sft

2013 SC  6m 9.5  soft

2012 LR  6m 28.7  heavy

2011 KS  6m 5.0  gd/sft

2010(jan) LR  6m 3.04  gd/sft

2009 KS  6m 7.10  gd/sft


Last years renewal has been crabbed a few times,the proximity of an ageing Thistlecrack etc

It,s easy to forget Native River was 13 1/2 lengths back in 3rd.

CDO is the only horse,with soft in the going description,to break the 6 minute barrier,in the last 10 runnings.

He is 100 % 2nd time out last 3 seasons.

Form figures in Dec read   1,2,1

Right handed tracks    5,1,2,1,1,2


Cracking renewal of the boxing day feature,a race with so many angles.

Based on the above,if CDO turns up in the same form as last season,it will take a good one to beat him.

Lets hope for a clean race,may the best horse win.

Foyles, when they showed the last 20 or so King George's on RUK the other day, I was struck, watching the sequence, by what a huge majority of winners of it were proper stayers. (Which most often means "stayed the Gold Cup trip" - some thought Kicking King wouldn't get the Kempton trip at that point)

And yet, even ignoring frodons 3m2f Cheltenham win as a point of comparison, we are talking about 3m0f round Kempton. Maybe the former would be a bridge too far for both Cyrname and Footpad (& maybe not) but what I have seen of both suggests both might get the trip on Thursday.

Now, given the way CDO travelled into it last year, and the pace Lostin has shown over shorter trips, for Cyrname to win by breaking their hearts with a remorseless fast pace seems far fetched.  Unless he is really exceptional.  And on one reading of the form, he might be.  The guy with the best clue has gone for Cyrname (and yes, I am well aware how often jocks get it wrong). 

Perhaps taking 15/8 about a "might be" is madness.  While drawing more than I stake each year is a point of pride and principle, I neither do it to put food on my table nor allow it to put that at risk.

But I don't half love the anticipation of evenings like this, waiting to see all our crackpot ( and I intend to blacken nobodies name but my own in using that term) theories dissolve into farce, just so I can dust off and do it all again.

I am already on Cyrname at 15/8 and footpad at 14 ish, so I have not looked at the market for a few days.  But with the sensible "value" hat on, I must say Foyles, if you can get 11/2 CDO, that seems, all things considered, pretty big.

Best of luck and a very Merry Christmas to all... I'm off to parboil some spuds.  See you for the postmortem!

Footpad still in ?

yes..why wouldn't it??

I'm going to back Footpad, not because I necessarily thinks he does stay but because he might stay and I want to think I have the winner with 2 to jump and I think he will provide that thrill.

In any case I look forward to supporting him in the Ryanair.

With regards Cyrname, since he's become the "New" Cyrname and putting the staying question aside, he could be the real deal but I'd want to see him produce at another track other than Ascot before I backed him at such cramped odds. As it stands, Ascot "could" be to him what Haydock is to BDM, we just don't know for sure and he's having to answer the question in what looks a good KG at 6/4, not for me.

lovely stuff !

BOOM ,....AS EXPECTED !

GET THE **** IN.

congrats to the winners . simples , sometimes

I do sometimes wonder if some of the more verbose contributors on here actually watch the races !

Very well done to everyone who backed it.  Fantastic performance.

Aso  - never looked like a King George horse or good enough
La Bague Au Roi - Beaten by 100/1 shot last time ......
Thlstlecrack - Superb  return against PP.Kauto , Dessie and Edreon Bleu won this at 11 .....he won't.
Footpad- The one unknown. If back to his best he is very good but...... he was supposed to challenge Altior over 2 miles , doubt he will get 3 miles.
Lostintranslation  - Looked Gold Cup horse at Haydock , but looks as likely as Denman to win a KG. Would he run if not in running for the bonus , I doubt it.
Cyrname - This race will tell us how good he was . I have doubts about the Altior he beat at Ascot .
Clan Des Obeaux- They found his Grade 1 last year in this race. The track and tempo is ideal . The latest multiple winner for me.

Well that was very easy to predict .....for a change.
Lostintranslation is a gold Cup horse not a King George.
Cyrname is overrated
and I still do not know how you get off a King George winner .......would have been nice to see Ms Frost riding it .

well done all good debate and sensible input .

Great tipping once again, unclepuncle.

Allaho is on the drift here to 3.55 from 2.5. A dodgy runner?

28 now!

Allaho a confirmed non-runner. Some knew and lay accordingly. A leaky stable Closutton; disgusting barstewards. Yet nithing has been done.

Over to you Betfair. Which barsteward connected to Closutton was responsible? Follow the money, if you're clueless Betfair!

The Sporting Life went from a respected racing newspaper to online sh!t owned by Sky.

So Matt Brocklebank puts up Eldorado Allen at 50/1 (Ladbrokes price) at 13:59 WED November 16, 2022.
The article provides a link to the sky bet account where the price has moved from 40/1 to  25/1 in the last half hour.
Meanwhile 50/1 is still available at Ladbrokes.

Sporting Life and Sky bet - utter fecking crooks.

A freebie from a bookie is similar to a prohibitive substance from a pusher/dealer, probably something addictive and illegal.

Never trust a bookie!

Galopin Des Champs now a clear second favourite after significant support today …

Thieving barsteward. I hope it's not the same entity laying Allaho before Mr Mullins publicly announced the horse met with a hiccup; Consitution Hill has firmed into 5/4 (from 2/1) here for the Fighting 5th.

Antepost betting is extremely risky with some stables.

very true words impossible.The pattern always there to follow.

Anyone know if Envoi Allen is an intended rnr?
cheers.

Seemed to be the plan after his win at Down Royal.

Have not heard anything since to suggest he isn't going that way.

I am very keen to oppose Bravemansgame.

Tx.
Not a big fan of Bravemansgame,tbh.

A shame not even one from Closutton or Cullentra; Envoi Allen for me. An improvement 1st time over 3m. Maybe connections were trying to make him into a 2miler (when he was not) after having won the Neptune and fallen in the JLT.

whilst hitman looked good at haydock  , he was part of a dual trainer assault at the course  for sir alex and ged mason in attendance  , very successful too . cant help but think that was hitmans big race before chelts , kg is just a participation imo  . bravemansgame is the most likely winner " wowcha " and lhomme presse is the one to run him closest " double wowcha " Best of luck . I,m going for lhomme presse

Looking a decent field. L homme presse is running which is great for the race. I don’t get the hitman thing or bravemansgame at the odds although I have a feeling bravesman is a very good horse. Stamina is my main thing with him. Envoi Allen appeals at 8/1 if a runner but his jumping will be tested round kempton but is still open to improvement at the distance. I worry if he has the class myself.

Big move on the prices

18/1 EW on reasonable ground is too big for FRODON, with doubts and imponderables for those at the top of the market.

The thoughts I,ve heard are that l,homme presse is just a better horse than bravemansgame , 14 runs 198k earned for bmg , 11 runs 248k for lp backs that up

Heavy rain at kempton hopefully no more but could be heavy at this rate

Venetia will be delighted with this news, Nicholls on the other hand......

I think that kempton is a unique test , if a horse loves it (bmg) you can up their rating by a stone or so .  I wouldn't give bmg a chance off levels at chelts vs (lp ) Its a education for me  , can a horse suited by the conditions beat a horse less suited that has more class ,  whilst both are aimed for it

I didn’t think L’Homme Presse could win first time out at the weights after his Aintree flop and he did it easily. I was impressed with that run. They struggle to keep with him at 3/4 distance and that’s handy at Kempton. He might be better left handed so I think the betting should be close with Bravemansgame.

i keep coming back to ahoy senor not  got a lot to find and if he can get jumping into a rhythm  could run a big race , ignore the seasonal debut and the run behind noble **** was much better .last seasons mildmay novices win  aintree win with bravemans and l,lomme p behind was a good run despite jumping out to the right he still had too much for those 2  and at the prices he is too big . its all about price to chance and if he runs to his best he has a better chance than the odds suggest with no stamina worries either .  a few ifs buts and maybes but he is 20/1 plus against 5/2 jfavs .

I have came down on the same horse as you Foyles.
Plenty of question marks against all the runners especially now we are looking at very soft ground.
As much as Bravemansgame is a brilliant jumper he looks a weak horse to me.
Hitman hates putting his head in front.
Envoi Allen won a micky mouse race in Down Royal.
L'Homme Press I really like and is probably the most likely winner.
Obviously have concerns over Ahoy Senor with his jumping, but if is on one of his going days he should out run his odds here.

Good luck all.
And have a lovely day tomorrow with family and friends.

Bravemansgame for me and I thought Royal Pagaille was too big at 20 on here so an opportunity to trade maybe.

FF - W/D bud...hope you had the F/C

Well I got BMG completely wrong.

Very likeable performance yesterday.

Silviniaco Conti to me nevertheless he deserves his chance in the Gold Cup.

I couldn't have been more wrong about Bravemansgame.Even with the
fall of L'Homme Presse he had the field well btn.Found a lot more than
I thought he would.
  wd wnrs
    GL

Bravemansgame is still the shortie 5/2 fav after two consecutive defeats starting a shortie fav each time. He was not fully tuned-up 1st, and no excuse 2nd time, according to Pumpkin; Royale Pagalle was not to be caught at his track Haydock today.

Could it be 3rd time lucky for Bravemansgame to maintain his crown here? Shishkin dug his heels in and refused to start at Ascot; Allaho had a "stroll" in his come back race post an injury and 561 days of the track last time.

Mr Mullins has a few key horses running on Boxing Day in Ireland. Will Townend come here just for Allaho? The horse is fav for budget airline race.

L'homme Presse not going to make it, back in January.

Frodon? Are they for real unless to assist?

3rd last year. Why not.....

£13k for 4th, even £3k for 6th. Won't be many runners, and a nice day out for the owners.

A good day out for connections of Frodon; he'd run into a minor place again. However, competition will be greater this renewal with Shishkin, The real Whacker and probably Gerri and/or Allaho in contention.

Looks like Elliot might have developed cold feet about Gerri's participation at the last minute? The sharp track of Kempton is far from ideal for Gerri plus the probable presence of Allaho can only be a negative. Or could it be that the Savills Chase could be a softer race for Gerri?

The connections of Gerri are watching the weather, why? Gerri goes on good to soft, soft and even heavy. Kempton could be soft on race day; Leopardstown is pretty similar.

I would imagine it is because he prefers soft ground, not the current good ground.

It seems fate has intervened. Gentlemansgame - the conqueror of BMG and in the same ownership as Gerri - has a foot issue. As such, Gerri would be more likely Savills Chase bound at Leopardstown on 28th Dec; Gerri is matched at 15 here.

Not even 1 euro from Gerri's trainer here. Quite a bit though in the Savills Chase. Can he beat GDC or Fastorslow?

royal pagaile nonner