if Order of St George wins the Arc European racing should be disbanded

not sure most of these horses are being judged to the same strict standards as LC has been

Harzand has beaten 1 US G1 winner

La Cressonniere has beaten 4 European G1 winners

She is the class horse in the race, none of them can match her acceleration, she will leave them standing.

If Almanzor win the Irish Champion LC will start fav in france 1.01

I think the good ground in the 'Arc' last year helped Golden Horn and others more than it did New Bay as he's won on very soft ground over 12f at Longchamp prior. At 24/1 here, this forgotten horse and only his 3rd run this year - assuming he runs in the Irish Champion Stakes this weekend - Andre Fabre as trainer, this is value - last 'Arc' he was 11/2.

Elbows

This link to LC races was posted earlier

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WK2iBIT7bAY

Sandown, all the sectionals displayed for those races are for overall leaders. Are you arriving at individual sectionals, down to hundredths of a second, from merely visuals, or do the French racing bods archive and display this info for each runner?

oneyallbeenwaiting4, my post relates to Diane splits, which I'm guessing Sandown has attempted to engineer from tv pics. That can't be done to hundredths of seconds. 10.68 for the last furlong in the Nonette is more understandable. Unlike Chantilly, it's dead flat in the straight, no incline. Early pace looked soft as well.

The following bunched finish handicap comes out slightly better on overall times compared to the Diane, which shows how moderate that form is.

And the ground couldn't have been any slower than spot on good ground.

Irrelevant only if you think it isn't an issue that a horse is going into a race that is possibly going to be run at an overall pace its never proved it can handle and against horses that will probably run much faster than it's ever been up against before.

It couldn't have been any slower than good ground unless you think the next three races, handicap, amateurs race and a claimer, all contained Listed class horses, as they couldn't possibly have clocked those times on slow ground.

it was a lot slower than Treves year which was described as good

i wouldnt deny that, dont think La Cressonniere is as good as Treve, but Treve won the Arc half the track and ran about 50 yards more than everything else

Yes she did, although I said at the time I thought the win was an exaggeration of her true ability and still believe that, even though I backed her last year when losing. La cressonniere's form is well below even an average Arc winner.

No, backed the second.

I backed Treve on her 1st 'Arc' at 11/2 for £20; she was swinging on the bridle until unleashed by her jockey at the 2f pole, and the rest was history.

just had a look at the thread, you said she had to improve and it was unlikely, "not rushing to back her"

this is what I said

"Draw is at 10am tomorrow morning, I wont be setting the alarm to watch it as my balls are already on the block with Treve at 8/1. I think shes the best filly since Zarkava and hopefully she gets a nice draw, if not, im still confident, the draw is incapable of putting me off her."

"Treve and Orfevre have gears and class that the rest of the field dont have, if both get runs they will fight it out and Orfevre will need to do something remarkable to give the filly 11 pounds."

I wrongly thought Orfevre was better than he was but I thought Treve's form was quite decent and always thought she'd stay. Whereas I think LC's form is really pretty poor as far as a race like the Arc is concerned and think she's unlikely to be placed unless it's a crawl and she's give an advantageous ride. Well done on backing Treve first time but it has absolutely nothing to do with this year's race.

so what is the best form this year, last I checked Idaho was second in the Derby and Muttakayyef was 3rd in the Juddmonte, not exactly world class level is it

form doesnt win Arcs, class and acceleration does, you can only beat whats in front of you and LC has done it every time, no excuses needed, unlike Qemah

Both Figgis and I know a thing or too about time ratings having spent years studying them. Ifwe both agree that it was not a fast run Diane and that the ground w not soft then I for one don't feel like wasting any more time debating g this . The splits I posted were forLC taken by me and decades clocking horses I standby them.t The same as the judge enter about stamina. We will have to wait for the race to see whether I'm right.

I think we all agree this year's 'Arc' is mediocre otherwise Postponed would not be 4/1 'fav'; if Golden Horn was running he'd be even money or no bigger than 6/4 'fav' to repeat his victory of 2015.

"the 10.89 is definitely wrong Sandown, I wish it wasnt"

I agree. Might be achievable on that ground for a penultimate furlong at Longchamp, highly unlikely at Chantilly.