Dewhurst Stakes

Would love to see aob send a strong team to the breeders cup this year.
Theres no harm throwing the better 1s into the dirt races.
Gleneagles cant see running but would love to see it in the classic..
The classic looks a cracking race this year

I personally view US A racing as seriously tainted by the legal use of doping. I hope Europeans boycott the farce.

If he does come over & the ground is no slower than gd, i would expect Air Force Blue to win it.
He looks a cracking prospect, the best so far with a 2000gns view imo.

Completely with you on that one, however I fear the harsh reality may be AOB not bringing him over and an odds on Emotionless.

....but you surely had to be impressed by Emotionless lto? The time was mediocre (a concern) but he trounced a horse I rate (Ibn Malik) and the pair were clear. You'll also have to travel a long way to find a better looking colt - something that will resonate with die-hard Nick Mordin acolytes wrt to next year's Guineas.

Emotionless does look a very smart 2yo, with plenty of scope, but on what i have seen so far, i like Air Force Blue more atm, backed him @ 14s for the 2000gns. If they both go for the Dewhurst & the ground is no worse than gd, i would be with the AOB colt with the impressive G1 form in the book.

So looks likely Emotionless vs Air Force blues may well be on Saturday, watching the Emotionless video of the York run he really does cruise into contention and could have won by twice as far if he had been exerted saying that I am not sure that we have seen the best of AFB yet either. Assume the ground is riding around G/S at Newmarket at the moment and surely that won't stop him taking part. Hope they both make it as it may well be a preview of the 2000g next May. If i had to put my neck on the line i would chance AFB as long as it was decent enough ground, just think the collateral form of his races is stronger. Looking forward to a great race

Looks that way just now but long time between now and Saturday. I'm still not convinced AOB will send him over. Looking back at previous years races, you could argue that he doesn't send his main Guineas contenders over for this.

2014 - he ran Smugglers Cove who didn't make the 2000 Guineas, only ran in the Irish 2000 Guineas (no Gleneagles)
2013 - he ran War Command who made the 2000 Guineas but was surely not seen as their number one (no Australia)
2012 - ran George Vancouver who made the 2000 Guineas but was the biggest price of the 3 who ran (No Mars and no Cristoforo Columbo)

Don't get me wrong, I really want to see Emotionless vs AFB this weekend, I'm just not so sure he will want to expose his hand at this stage and the first meeting between the pair will be the 2000 Guineas. He's entered Waterloo Bridge, Shogun and Lieutenant General. For me, he will most likely only run Lieutenant General.

I think Paterson92 may be right. I have Air Force Blue only 1lb ahead of Emotionless but the way the latter's last race was run I think that's as good as he is, unless he makes more physical improvement. I reckon Air Force Blue is already better than the bare form and if he runs I'll be backing him at the prices, but I expected him to be fav here so that makes me question if he really is an intended runner.

Betfred now have Emotionless at 10/11 and Air Force Blue a standout 7/4.

O'Brien said: "Air Force Blue seems fine and it is so far, so good for the Dewhurst on Saturday.

Ahh the good old "good ground" statement again, starting to get deja vu here ...

AIR FORCE BLUE is on course to bid for a third Group 1 win at Newmarket on Saturday, although trainer Aidan O'Brien wants to see ground no slower than good for the colt's Dubai Dewhurst Stakes showdown with Emotionless.

The ground on the Rowley Mile changed from good to firm to good, good to soft in places yesterday, although the forecast for the rest of the week is mainly dry.

O'Brien said yesterday: "He's in good form and it's a case of so far, so good with him for the Dewhurst. Obviously he appreciates nice conditions, so we're hoping for good or better ground for him."

O'Brien, who has trained three winners of the Dewhurst - Rock Of Gibraltar (2001), Beethoven (2009) and War Command (2013) - added: "We have three other colts in the race but Air Force Blue could be our only runner."

Air Force Blue is a best-priced 7-4 in a market headed at 11-10 by Godolphin's Emotionless.

O'Brien's colt achieved the first of his Group 1 wins in the Keeneland Phoenix Stakes at the Curragh in August. The ground, which was good for that six-furlong event, was officially yielding when the son of War Front landed the National Stakes by three lengths last month."

I'll believe it when I see him in the stalls!

emotionless will win whatever O'brien sends over.

next 3day weather forecast is for dry mild weather. Could well be on the faster side of gd come Sat, certainly no slower than gd.

Taking a bit of the 15/8 on here about A F B.
If right about the ground come Sat, he wont be that price, fav imo.

The price on here seems to suggest he won't be running despite what O'Brien says.

If he does not run, it wont be because of the ground, if the weather reports are right,
Am willing to take the chance for a few £££ he does run.

Only 7 standing for the Dewhurst; Buratino is out (Godolphin) but Air Force Blue in, at the moment; should be interesting if it remains like this.

any particular reason why it wouldn't?

Cracking race in-store all being well
1st & 2nd favs for next yrs 2000gns going into battle
Hope the weather men & women have got it spot on, could be on the quick side of gd come Sat.

I rather like Massaat though I'm not sure he'll handle the dip too well as he is a big heavy topped type.

Really looking forward to this match up although the dewhurst has thrown up a few shock results in the last few years. Both horses should appreciate good ground and hopefully it will be a cracker.

Air Force Blue now into fav on here, thats about right imo.
Ground should be about gd 2moro, no excuses for anyone if running up to their best.
Air Force Blue for my £££.

Millerracing67 09 Oct 15 21:00 Joined: 04 Aug 11 | Topic/replies: 2,598 | Blogger: Millerracing67's blog
Air Force Blue now into fav on here, thats about right imo.
Ground should be about gd 2moro, no excuses for anyone if running up to their best.
Air Force Blue for my £££.

had you mentioned you were backing him before? I hadn't noticed!

pick of the morning prices

11/8  AFB joes 8.30AM
6/4   Emotionless 6/4 9AM

yeah at the moment more like 11/10 AFB and 11/8 Emotionless at the moment

thats bookmaker prices not betfair ones

Backed Air Force Blue to win and the Bolger horse and the Johnston horse in the place market.

Wincing running in the Coventry, of the 25 horses AFB has finished in front of, only 3 have gone on to win another race. 4 in total, a class 4, 2 class 2 and a group 3. That form doesn't read much to my eyes, and being a War Front, he would be best on faster ground, even though he's won on softer going.

I'm on Emotionless, who could have won by a distance lto and never really had much of a race..proberley the most exciting 2yo seen this season.

how can you say emotionless form is better .It isn't ,the one thing in emotionless favour is that he is huge ,look's a very big 2yo , which makes me wonder how much he will improve next season ,in his defence some horse called frankel did . But am with AFB and if he gets beat well ,it just means il get a bigger price for the guineas

I've not said that Emotionless form is better, just that there are plenty of holes in the favs form, whereas, Emotionless has the best ( visually) performance from a 2yo this year.

Agree about the size quote, reminds me of Berkshire the other year.

Adventurous €8 at 125
Thank me later (that you didn't back it)
Please MONEYTREE would come on here and advise us to lay it.

MACHINE

Looking good for the Guineas, Miller.

Most impressive

Most impressive

Fingers x  J B "24"  He looks the real deal   Hopefully all going well to next yrs 2000gns, he is something to look forward to, very classy 2yo with plenty of size & scope to be even better @ 3.

Brilliant performance by the winner - wins the Guineas barring injury or terible wetaher.

Vrry pleased with Masssaat's performance - definitely got Group 1's in him next year.

I backed AFB so was glad to see him win, and while yes he was reasonably impressive, the time was decent and he'd have to be at the top of the pecking order for next year's Guineas, the current price is utterly ridiculous. He's just beaten the 20/1 shot Massaat by just over 3 lengths. We've seen horses go into the winter with better form than that and not capture the Guineas the following season but usually at better odds.

I agree 4/5 with victor no bet theres still 7 months to go and lots more trials next year

Although I agree to an extent, he hasnt JUST beaten a 20/1 shot, hes won 3 group ones and destroyed everything. I wouldnt get  too bogged down by the price of the 2nd, so what if its 20/1, means nothing.

Obviously the price of the second isn't of crucial importance in itself, it just proves he wasn't fancied but even after the race I doubt anyone thinks that horse is even close to Guineas standard as the form behind the second is pretty ordinary with the Godolphin horse runner a stinker (nothing new there). Frankel was a similar price after the Dewhurst and even though AFB is the likeliest winner at this stage I don't see how his best 2yo form comes close to Frankel's best 2yo wins. There will be better 5/4 shots in the next 7 days let alone tying your cash up for 7 months.

*running a stinker

O’Brien: ‘Australia the best horse I have ever had’
Aidan O'Brien hailed Gleneagles as "the best miler we've had"
Air Force Blue: "He's something like we haven't had before."

You wait ages for one.....

emotionless looked lame as cockoo to me

boring- coolmore win again.

giant yawn.

The 2yr olds look very poor,that short a price and hardly done a thing on the clock bar debut when he was value for the Coventry,if he can win a guineas just running to current standard then says very little for the rest.

While I am not the type of punter who takes 6/4 on a horse (even on the day let alone 7 months in advance) it's hard to see that there is any equine danger to Air Force Blue. He looks as far clear of his contempories as Frankel did. Other than injury, poor preparation or inclement weather the ony other possible concern is that he is by War Front, rather than the more usual Galileo, and Coolmore's other Dewhurst winner by that sire War Command didn't really train on.

Crabbing the form because of Massaat coming 2nd is very blnkererd imo. Massaat was (and still is) a hugely promising horse who had been beaten a whisker on debut by the once raced Cymric - and Cymric has gone on the be betaen a nostril in the Gran Criterium last week. If Air Force Blue missed the race for any reason then Massaat would be my idea of the winner.

As for Emotionless, Godolphin just dont know how to train 2,000 Guineas winners (or Derby winners for that matter) - the only winners they have had have all been trained elsewhere as 2 year olds. Given the resources at their disposal it's really quite embarrassing how bad they are - I'm surprised heads haven't rolled (quite literally!!)

Figgis ,he said it was the best 2yo he ever trained ,and so what it's there business to sell stallions . Plus it was joseph that said after the phoenix stakes that he hadn't sat on many many better ,and aidan said he didn't want to say anything because he keeps getting slated for it , because people ask him straight after the race whilst he still on a high and still excited .

*he was the best *  *their business*   sorry its late

Crabbing the form because of Massaat coming 2nd is very blnkererd imo.

I haven't crabbed the form per se, I've crabbed it in relation to his price. Australia's 2yo win against Free Eagle was at least as good and he was something like 6/1 after that, plus he still got beat.

Lingbleed, yes I understand that but 3 best in 3 years and it's becoming a bit of joke. Especially as this year's supposed best miler hasn't even been asked to face an older horse in his career, ground excuses or not.

i do get that Figgis , I am so bias been irish and i do love coolmore , irish racing would be at a great loss with out them . AM sure some one will attack me for saying that now ,but thats just my opinion

Lingbleed, I've nothing against them as an outfit, I'm not Irish but British racing would also be a loser without them. Some might argue racing would be more competitive without them but I don't want to see a poorer standard of racehorse just for increased competition. It was also refreshing to see Tabor give such a confident pre-race interview, instead of the usual evasive waffle we hear before a race followed by the post race confidence afterwards. I just think this 'best ever' stuff is getting a bit much.

I understand , and a lot of people of fed up of it , but aidan was cautious not to say anything like that at the curragh , as he know's he's getting slated for it , but now the journalist are ask n him very leading questions all the time about it ,if a horse's wins a maiden they are asking  him were would that rank with the best you have trained ,and i believe aidan just loves them (the horse's) so much and is so excited after they do well that it just falls out of his mouth , i'd say he kick's himself when he's home and he know's he did it again , plus puts huge pressure on the yard and horse .

we all know that 5/4 is crazy but its 16s bar tell us whats value then ?

Other than injury, poor preparation or inclement weather the ony other possible concern is that he is by War Front, rather than the more usual Galileo, and Coolmore's other Dewhurst winner by that sire War Command didn't really train on.

at 6/4 any layer worth his salt only needs one of these...

Emotionless has suffered an injury (chip prob) reported on atr this morn.
Did not think he was gd enough myself to beat Air Force Blue but he has not run any kind of race yest & at least we have some kind of reason for that below par effort.
Air Force Blue does look a very special 2yo in my book, in fact he has done in his last 3 races.
If all goes well with him till next yrs 2000gns he looks a gd thing.
Not an ante-p bet now @ 6/4 or shorter, but a very worthy short price fav imo.
Be interesting if they have a crack at the Gns with Shalaa??  as he is the next best 2yo colt, personally dont see him as a Gns colt myself, but if g/f ground next spring @ Newmarket it would be worth a shot, his dams side would suggest he should get further than 6f. Dont think Jonny G is thinking about the 2000gns for him & views him as an out&out sprinter, but horses can change over the winter (esp 2yos).
Yest runner-up looks a nice horse in the making after only 2 maiden runs before yest G1, but diff to see him getting the better of A F B.

Anyone done any timefigures/ratings @ 1st glance didnt look too sparkling only 1 second quicker than nursery and slower than challenge stakes on previous day despite drying ground.
That said the visual impression was knockout but 6/4 ?? no ta.

Geoff m, I have a decent time rating for him, but nothing so far that suggests he could be in any way exceptional. On my figures he'd only need to improve about 5 or 6 pounds for an ordinary Guineas winner. Probably he will improve by that much but I don't subscribe to the view that such improvement is a foregone conclusion. Even if he does that would hardly make him an odds on chance. Kingman and Australia went into the 2014 Guineas with similarly strong form but not many of us saw Night Of Thunder coming.

It's really simple,

they're a business, and they push every edge they can get. When a horse like AFB comes along why not wax lyrical, those words will stick, it's called advertising.

On one of the rare occasions I've seen John Magnier being interviewed he wore a 'Montjeu' jacket, now I'm sure he could afford something more suitable for a tv appearance, but that's his job.

The only thing you can say about Aidan O'Brien is for all his genius as a trainer he overdoes it on the hype and maybe that's a sign of his sheer love for the horses. Not the worst trait in the world.

As for the Guineas .. and the 6/4 .. it's probably a decent bet, it's not far wrong either way that's for sure.

AFB was indeed impressive 'visually'; would it still be had Emotionless had not been injured 'prior/during' the race?; the score between AFB (6/4) and Buratino (25/1) is 1-1, and Buratino was beaten less than 1 length by Shalaa; at these prices which horse represents much better value?

I wouldn't discount the chance of 'Emotionless' (20/1) making the 2000G just yet; at current price and with connections 'confident' of a full recovery, if so, this price can only contract nearer the event I'd think. There is no 'value' in backing AFB now given the race is more than 5 months away especially if Buratino, in the same onwership with 'Emotionless', is allowed to participate.

In fairness I should say congrats to the likes of Milleracing who were so bullish about Air Force Blue before the race.

I must admit that I was slightly annoyed because I rather fancied air force blue for the coventry and had some pennies on him, he comes there to win the race with a huge turn of foot and gets worried out of it at the end. At the time I felt he was a much stronger prospect than Buratino, mostly because of his size and scope compared to the winner, and subsequent events have rather borne this out.

The main problem is I chose to ignore my concerns about the slowish sectionals that Emotionless posted at doncaster, and went with my gut reaction when watching the race live that this is a monster. It clearly wasn't and the clock doesn't lie, and in future I'll only be going in heavy on a horse if the clock backs up my visual reaction.

As for Air Force Blue winning the guineas, he does look miles clear at the moment, but at the same time tieing up your money until next may at 6-4 makes little appeal. There is still time for something to come out of the woodwork. There's also a very slight doubt on his pedigree about him getting a mile, even if on racing style it should pose no problem.I'm no pedigree expert but neither his sire nor dam raced beyond seven furlongs, of course he should get a mile but it's possible that others will improve more for it.

The main problem is I chose to ignore my concerns about the slowish sectionals that Emotionless posted at doncaster, and went with my gut reaction when watching the race live that this is a monster. It clearly wasn't and the clock doesn't lie, and in future I'll only be going in heavy on a horse if the clock backs up my visual reaction.

Spot on as far as I am concerned.

I think we're all fully aware of why O'Brien comes out with the hype. I'm not so sure if many breeders are actually so stupid to blindly accept it but don't really care if they are. I also don't expect it to get challenged by the sycophantic racing media. However as punters on here we can decide if there is any substance to these statements or if it is merely marketing prattle.

In my view their previous 'best horse', Australia, did nothing to suggest he was any better on the racecourse than Galileo. Their 'best miler' Gleneagles as yet hasn't achieved more than Rock Of Gibraltar or Henrythenavigator and timing is running out for him. Maybe the latest new improved version of the best horse can actually live up to the hype

The main problem is I chose to ignore my concerns about the slowish sectionals that Emotionless posted at doncaster, and went with my gut reaction when watching the race live that this is a monster

LR, whether you were right or wrong about that and even allowing that AFB is the better horse there's no doubt that Emotionless didn't run up to anything like his previous form so I don't think you can blame yourself for picking a horse that ran so disappointingly. He was injured too but that's yet another Godolphin runner to end up on the crocked list.

Ryan Moore said he was the best 2yo he's ridden which is actually fair enough bearing in mind he's ridden mainly for Stoute

Yes, A_T, don't think that's saying a great deal, I imagine Gleneagles might've been the best 2yo he'd ridden before that. Can't think of many others, Workforce only ran the once as a 2yo.

What is the best horse Aidan has ever trained iyo Figgis?

Tucho, on the flat he's obviously had loads of top class runners but I wouldn't say any of them were truly exceptional. Personally I like to see a horse prove itself as a 4yo when not receiving the allowances so for me it would be Dylan Thomas, even though his form was patchier at 2 and 3, he also proved himself tougher than most. Which would you say?

hawk wing 136

4 lbs better than dylan thomas 

Your own opinion or Timeform's?

I am not smart enough to have an opinion 

But my investments follow Buffett and my bets follow the ratings, so it's all worked out OK

I can see why Hawk Wing would figure for anybody, I also rated his Lockinge win highly. However I prefer the evidence of more than one run as there is always the possibility of that one race being overrated and nothing else he did was as good. Even if the Lockinge could be taken at face value I prefer horses that can do it more than once.

In principle that makes perfect sense. The Lockinge could have been badly wrong, but the relatives between the placed horses even down to 6th /7th lined up exactly with prior form. And he didn't get away, he galloped away, IIRC it was raining at the time and that may have helped him. For the record i went in with sentimental money at ascot at 1/2 hoping he was going to be better than sea bird...we live and learn.

Regarding Air Force Blue, for me something doesn't quite add up concerning the stuff about him being something like they've never had, or words to that effect, and this being observed as far back as February. To date every single O'Brien 2000 Guineas winner started a well backed fav on 2yo debut. Obviously I'm not going to say this means they all should, or any of that piffle, but it does strongly suggest that they know when they think they've got a good one and it gets backed accordingly (like we didn't know that already).

AFB only started a lukewarm 4/1 chance on debut to a Bolger fav, he then started a reasonably well backed 2nd fav to another Bolger runner in the Coventry and next time was 2nd fav to confirm the form with Buratino and it was only after that win, his fourth appearance, that he actually started fav for a race. Clearly horses can improve at different rates, I'm sure AFB is a better 2yo now than he was earlier and none of this affects his chances of taking next year's Guineas. However, fairly well regarded he may have been but in view of the previous markets I find it difficult to believe the latest line that he was always seen as some kind of wonder horse.

TBH I have no idea. I only really got into racing in 06 so I was just interested in your historical comparisons of Australia to Galileo and Rock Of Gibraltar to Gleneagles and if you've been doing the stats for AOB's whole flat career.

I can see why a lot of people are bored of the hype as we've heard it a lot recently.

Joined: 28 Sep 04 | Topic/replies: 5,873 | Blogger: Figgis's blog
Regarding Air Force Blue, for me something doesn't quite add up concerning the stuff about him being something like they've never had, or words to that effect, and this being observed as far back as February. To date every single O'Brien 2000 Guineas winner started a well backed fav on 2yo debut. Obviously I'm not going to say this means they all should, or any of that piffle, but it does strongly suggest that they know when they think they've got a good one and it gets backed accordingly (like we didn't know that already).

AFB only started a lukewarm 4/1 chance on debut to a Bolger fav, he then started a reasonably well backed 2nd fav to another Bolger runner in the Coventry and next time was 2nd fav to confirm the form with Buratino and it was only after that win, his fourth appearance, that he actually started fav for a race. Clearly horses can improve at different rates, I'm sure AFB is a better 2yo now than he was earlier and none of this affects his chances of taking next year's Guineas. However, fairly well regarded he may have been but in view of the previous markets I find it difficult to believe the latest line that he was always seen as some kind of wonder horse.
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I think detective Figgis has hit the nail on the head

I believe joseph said before his phoenix stakes win , that he had no doubt the AFB would turn out to be the best in that field if not that day ,but definitely next year . So from that one has to believe they viewed anything he did as a 2yo as a bonus , and if that is to be believed well just maybe (third time lucky) he will turn out to be the best they have had .

I wouldn't take any notice when they say "he's the best we've ever had" !

They say it so many times it loses it's relevance, clearly there is some separate issue going on here, perhaps he will turn out to be the "best they've ever had" or perhaps he won't, but the fact they say it about any promising animal they have makes it rather farcical.

Hence why in this great game & sport of horse racing its always best to form your own opinions about who gd you rate them. One thing AOB is right about is that he is very gd indeed, i fully agree with that view, he is the best 2yo i have seen this season.
Whether he is the so called "best they have had" thing, means very little to me as a punter. Coolmore are a top racing & breeding outfit world wide, its their business to big up their stock, who wouldn't ? My View on A F B is that all going well from 2/3 he will win next yrs 2000gns, he looks the real deal to my eye.

For me, the 'very best' tag is important to me as a punter as it can often lead to a horse being priced lower than it otherwise would be, especially when the media and bookmakers start focussing on such things, although if these tags are going to be churned out every season then the impact may diminish. If we can believe these statements then we can say the prices are deserved, however we've seen that the track record hasn't been great so far and as yet AFB hasn't shown anything that would suggest he could be better than an average Guineas winner.

I doubt there are many punters around that would disagree AFB is the most likely Guineas winner at this stage, but it's all about the price. I can't see how 11/8 is a true price when the race is nearly 6 months away. We know that they don't trial their Guineas horses so assuming he's ready it's very likely he'll be going there without another run. Frankel started 1/2 on the day but that was a rare case. Looking at some short priced O'Brien runners, One Cool Cat started 15/8, George Washington 6/4, St Nicholas Abbey evens, Camelot 15/8. If we do get an impressive trial winner it's unlikely AFB would be any shorter than now. Even if the trials throw up a bunch of third raters I think it's unlikely AFB would go much lower than evens. Don't know if that would be of any interest to me but I'd rather be taking that when I know the horse is going to make the gig and what the conditions are than take 11/8 6 months away with setbacks a possibility. A silly price imo.

of course figgis, it's a crazy price. He won't run before the guineas and I'll be surprised if he doesn't start bigger than that on the day

you'll get an impressive newbury maiden winner, an impressive greenham winner, throw the craven stakes/free handicap into the mix, some impressive gallop in ireland or newmarket, some sexy horses from france and so on

I can't recall a classic in recent years going into it where trial winners and other contenders don't get hyped up, there's very few boring build-ups to classics these days with the racing media being so extensive, so there's plenty of scope for his price to drift. even if there remains the possibility of the big coolmore battalions coming for him on the day

If that's the best on offer form wise and time wise will be one of the worst guineas ever,i've hardly got anything marked off as even half decent yet!Liked smash Williams lsst run open to loads of improvement but may only be a 7f horse but he will be almost certainly top class 3yr old over at least 7fs..

I dont have to worry about the price A F B is now (backed him @ 14s ante-p)
Seems a few of you are down on the horse & think his price now is crazy, so you will all be laying plenty by now then???
And 1 of u is setting a new (early) record by stating that this will be one of the worst 2000gns ever??  in Oct   Get a grip ffs

It's a betting forum so price is vital to any discussion, it's not a Coolmore horse fanzine and I don't see why saying a price is stupid is "down on the horse"? No point in laying a badly priced 6/4 shot now and have wait for 6 months when there are plenty of others around before then.

Think i said that some of you are down on the horse (&) think the price is now crazy.
My view is that A F B should now be a short priced fav for next yrs 2000gns.
The only thing your right about (imo) is that @ 6/4 he is not now an ante-p bet with approx 7months to wait, thats just stating the obvious imo.
As for the claim of there are plenty of badly priced 6/4 shots around before then, that comes across as a bit of trying to blow your own trumpet, gd luck with that

My view is that A F B should now be a short priced fav for next yrs 2000gns.

thats just stating the obvious

I should think most reasonably competent punters can find a few under priced 6/4 shots that they want to oppose before next May.

My view is there is no value in either backing or laying AFB (6/4) for next year's 2000G solely on the longevity of a possible return as one could achieve a similar 'value' with Jack Hobbs in the Champion Stakes; the existing uncertainties until the event, and I also believe Betfair does not settle until the event has taken place compound the issue further.

topspeed in the weekender this week was lukewarm on the horse. Seemed to think while he posted tidy closing sectionals off a fairly sedate gallop, the overall impression was that he was still somewhat behind recent winter favorites of the guineas, like teofilo, new approach, etc who were a similar price going into the spring yet had achieved far more.