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betilyerded
02 Sep 15 19:20
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Date Joined: 03 Jul 02
| Topic/replies: 824 | Blogger: betilyerded's blog
Dont know why but I love this race. Not as much as the Ayr Gold Cup but still love it.

Strange really, as Tony Blair was in power the last time I backed the winner. Following the advice of my then guru - Gerald Delamere - I backed Miss Fara, back in the days when the Pipe stable could lay one out for a big flat handicap, who elbowed some Weld horse out of the way in the shadows of the post under a 5lb claimer by the name of Ryan Moore (whatever happened to him?).

Ive hit the bar, post and stanchion in the intervening years, most notably when steaming into King Revo ante-post at 33-1 (the day before Tom Segal put him up in the weekender), cursing my luck to see him berthed in the 2 stall and watching in wonder as Pip Robinson conjured up a wonder ride before being nailed on the line by the horse i'd backed to win both the Northumberland Plate and Ebor - the great Sergeant Cecil.

Been taking a sneaky at this years race and have hopefully plucked a couple out to take forward in the race.

I can understand the prices on the market leaders but given the uncertainty of future targets for a few of these have looked a bit further down the lists for my early fancies.
Mind you, not too far for the first, as Oriental Fox isnt loitering in the 66-1 bar section but i do feel he is very interesting, albeit 20-1 is probably about right at this time.

A winner of the ces trial in 2013, he ran a respectable race in the real thing under J Murtagh to finish 6th when looking to hold every chance 2 out. he carried top weight that day and will shoulder a similar burden should he line up in October but there are grounds for thinking he could do it at a 2nd attempt.
Firstly it was his first season in England and for mark Johnston and had been on the go since April, running in all the top handicaps with the Ces being his 10th hard race of the season. Maybe it was one race too many.
Whatever the reason he ran very respectively in listed/group company the following season, only being beaten 5 1/2 lengths in the Ascot Gold Cup and following it up 10 days later with a gallant effort under top weight in the Northumberland plate.

Not seen again until this years Queen Alexander, he absolutely hosed up, visually very impressive when he spreadeagled a decent field in a matter of strides and leaving the subsequent Ebor second Wicklow Brave floundering in his wake. He was apparently 10 kilos above his usual racing weight that day,which, if believed, was a top class effort in a race run 6 seconds faster than that won by Chiberta King who won the same race before finishing 4th in the 2013 Ces.

He then ran as well as could be expected in the Goodwood Cup, being disadvantaged when coming from behind looking briefly dangerous before fading into 7th. His latest run over in France showing his well-being and ability to act on most ground over a variety of distances.

He does hold an entry in the Stayers race at Ascot on champions day in October and given his good record at the track it does temper my enthusiasm to get involved. That said, he isnt that class and Im hoping Johnston has another crack at the race. If he does then I can see him being involved in the finish.

The other one I really like - and my ante-post bet at this stage - is Rite To Reign, generally a 33-1 poke but available at 40-1 with bet365 and Laddies.

This one was a steadily progressive 3yo, ending the season with a clear cut victory over C&D when not rated highly enough to run in last years Ces.
His return on the A/W was fine and his 4 runs on turf this year all give encouragement for his chances in this years race.
Firstly, at York, he was the only horse in the top 7 to come from the back of the field over 2 miles to finish on the heels of the leaders in 4th with the next two to do so - Mawaqueet (8th) & Saved By the Bell (10th)- both winning next time out.
There was nothing wrong with his next effort at Haydock when a close up 4th behind subsequent Ascot scorer Seamour with  Northumberland 3rd Nearly caught and Ebor third Suegioo 3rd & 4th respectively. He indeed ran well in the Plate, hugging the rail and unluckily stopped in his run on the race for home, coming home a respectable 8th and not given a hard time after his chance had gone. It would be stretching it to suggest he would have troubled the principals but would have undoubtedly have finished much closer with a clear passage. Stayers simply cannot recover as quickly as sprinters/milers when blocked and need time to gather momentum before renewing a challenge when all too often the chance has gone.
His latest run at Ascot ,on the face of it, was a little disappointing but these Ascot races often turn into a sprint for home and though only finishing 8th of 11 he was on the heels of the winning group with the remainder well pread out beihind. he wont be the last horse to be "Ascoted" on soft ground.

Id be astounded if the Ces wasnt his end of season target and indeed with trainer Phil McBride being Newmarket based the trial later this month has to be his next port of call. Im taking the 40-1 with Bet365 first 5 places and will top up after the race. Id also put a word in for Gavlar at 33-1 who has been plying his trade at Goodwood and Kempton all year but has improved for the step up to 2 miles this season, can be forgiven his run in the Goodwood stakes and is still improving. There will be worse 33-1 pokes on the day.

Thanks for reading!

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Replies: 120
By:
Madhu
When: 03 Sep 15 01:55
Good read betilyerded- Could not agree more on Rite To Reign and on at 50’s but needs a lot come out. I also hope he turns up for the Trial race and a 4lb penalty might not stop him as it didn’t do Never Can Tell much harm (may be the 3rd Colour Vision) in 2011 but it probably cost Countrywide Flame the race a year later.

As for backing past winners,  Koukash’s Never Can Tell was one of 8 arrows I had that year ante-post that meant I’d pick up a large one anyway ( I had a quarter of the field even after it cut up and there was liquidity  on here at enormous prices). Frankie’s ride was one of the best I have seen considering the draw and positioning down the straight.Seeing her sad demise in the Doncaster Cup over 3 out was heart rendering. 

I lost a fortune on the huge Hasten To Add in 93. I thought it would take a bolt of lightning to beat him that day; but then again I thought the same in the Ebor in 94! Mind you I lost out big time with De Rigueur last year. Squeezed out- and he’d of romped home with some more give in the ground.
By:
betilyerded
When: 03 Sep 15 09:47
Thanks Madhu.Ive no qualms about him getting a run as horses rated low to mid 80's get in every year - think he's on 89 so hopefully wont pick up a penalty en-route! Its the other 32 runners that bother me..

See pricewise is in the post tomorrow on the race, interesting to to see what he comes up with. Think he has a decent record in the race ante-post and we may get some informative trainer quotes as to their plans (glad that Jonjo doesnt have a runner - "in good form, we'll see how he is, but yes, well, maybe not sure").

Interestingly Never Can Tell was one that completely escaped me. Didnt fancy it at all.I did like Aaim To Prosper but missed the price when Segul put him up ante-post and so sulked and didnt back him.Scatter Dice was a real bummer as I spent half of the morning of the race watching recordings of all his runs as something told me he was going to run well in first-time blinkers and De Sousa back up for the first time since he won back to back races on him the previous year but couldnt make the leap of faith required when dealing with Johnstons horses.

Hasten To Add - a 3yo carrying 7-10 for Sir Mark. No wonder he went off a short priced fav! I was at the plate when he got done on the line (cant remember who by)but made no mistake in the ebor. Good horse.
By:
Deltâ
When: 03 Sep 15 16:13
The 3yo The Twisler has gone from OR85 to OR106 after his win and will get in now!
By:
morpteh mackem
When: 03 Sep 15 19:34
quick ransom i think bt hasten to add
By:
PJay
When: 03 Sep 15 20:05
"Renati... more than 20 points too big at 33-1"

Big shout by Tom.
By:
ashleigh
When: 04 Sep 15 16:29
oriental fox being aimed at group races.
By:
betilyerded
When: 04 Sep 15 17:58
Yeah, see that Ashleigh which is why I wasnt prepared to back him at this stage as i saw he had group entries but wouldnt surprise me if he turned up on the day.

Gavlar being aimed at the race though.
By:
Madhu
When: 05 Sep 15 00:50
Just added another arrow in Sir Mark's Moscato the lazy progressive grey Hernando gelding  out of a Nashwan mare from the Alruccaba dam line who’ll have no problem with the distance. BF 25
By:
Madhu
When: 05 Sep 15 15:32
Have added my old mate Angel Gabrial. Considering best form over further, badly handicapped, and no pace; he travelled nicely held up this time and I think his finishing effort augurs well. I can see him running a decent race under Jack Garrity. Took a punt with what liquidity there was on BF.
By:
Montoria
When: 05 Sep 15 22:36
The Twisler = France
Energies Davis = Oz
By:
brendrew
When: 06 Sep 15 13:00
sueggio for me 33/1 first 5 with b365

see how much ground it made at the ebor-further distance will help.
By:
ashleigh
When: 11 Sep 15 15:31
after his good run today, koukash says that sueggio will run.
By:
Madhu
When: 11 Sep 15 16:57
Both Pallasator (12’s) and Suegioo (16’s) were shortened by the bookies after the Doncaster Cup and for £40 at 40’s + you can nick nigh on £1500 if you fancy rushing in, however,  I think I read in the recent Marco Botti stable tour that he favoured Ascot over giving so much weight away in the Cesarewitch and after today in SpL -  "It was a good performance. He ran up to his mark of 107. We will probably go to Ascot on Champions Day. I think he will prefer a little more give in the ground. It has dried up a little bit." Moreover,  Sheikh Fahad said: "He's quirky, but very talented. Sir Mark's done a great job and to get him to the start was something to see as well! As long as he gets to Champions Day, we'll be happy. He picks up at this time of the year. He did last year as well. As there is only a week between races I wouldn’t want to back either ante-post based on those statements.
By:
betilyerded
When: 14 Sep 15 15:22
Both Rite To Reign and Gavlar entered for the trial on saturday. Looking for an "eyecatcher" from the former.Excited
By:
Vitavox
When: 14 Sep 15 15:40
Hello everyone! Im a new boy round here and my first post concerns the Cesarewitch. I like Nearly Caught trained by Hughie Morrison, a horse that was just behind the placed horses in the 2014 renewal and who has a very good effort in the Northumberland Plate to his name. I backed NC last time out at York in the Ebor but the jockey chose a novel route up the stands rail leaving the horse both isolated and on the worst ground (according to the official going description).
I have compiled a folder of my own standard times for all UK courses and distances and the Northumberland Plate was the fastest race of the day (adjusted for class).
He looks a certain runner amidst doubts over several of his competitors and represents value at current odds imo.
By:
betilyerded
When: 14 Sep 15 15:57
Welcome Vitavox!

I think Nearly Caught will be on the premises again, he just strikes me as a horse who has become almost "tripless". Stays on over 14f, one paced at 16f but didnt look to stay the 18f last season. Also not sure soft ground would suit if we got it as he has bombed twice on it and his win in g/s was in a very slow time as a 3yo.

Good luck with it anyway & enjoy the site whilst it lasts!
By:
Madhu
When: 14 Sep 15 19:31
Vitavox welcome- HM Stable tour-

"He will either go for the Ebor or step up a grade and go for the Prix Kergorlay in France. He wasn't beaten far by the Goodwood Cup second Quest For More in the Northumberland Plate and if he had genuine good to soft ground he has a good race in him."

If HM books a claimer and ground suits I would have a punt. He is still lightly raced since Ryan Moore rode him last year.
By:
Benjy
When: 14 Sep 15 19:35
Agree, NC will be in the mix. My only play at this stage.
By:
Madhu
When: 14 Sep 15 19:46
You lot have talked me into backing him for a monkey on here at 28.19 just now! Kind regards.
By:
deepingfox
When: 14 Sep 15 22:14
THOMAS EDISON trainer knows that this gelding loves fast pace two mile races, and said after last years Galway Hurdle, that he always had that race and the Ces in mind for the horse, and now he is halfway there.  Seems he is on his way to Newmarket, and I rate him well weighted, and imo laid out for completing the trainers hopes of winning both races.
By:
Madhu
When: 16 Sep 15 18:14
I cannot understand today's shortening of The Cashel Man at no 77, even with a penalty were he to win the trial, he would need 30 to come out!
By:
johnnyrant
When: 16 Sep 15 22:26
Gale Force if she runs. Looks like she's going to run in the trial at HQ on Sat, & there should be enough give for her after today's delude. Question is, whether she will run as talk of Long Distance Cup at Champions Meeting at Ascot.
By:
Tucho
When: 17 Sep 15 01:01
On the sportinglife site today Tony Martin said he expects to run only 2 of his entries and then talked about Heartbreak City and Quick Jack as the likely ones. Hopefully it's nothing to worry about for Thomas Edison fans, but maybe it's best to wait if your looking at the Martin runners to be sure.
By:
deepingfox
When: 17 Sep 15 21:51
Good point Tucho, I have now added HEARTBREAK CITY as an addition to my earlier THOMAS EDISON bet.
By:
ashleigh
When: 18 Sep 15 17:30
any chance of amour de nuit getting in.?
By:
Madhu
When: 18 Sep 15 18:12
ashleigh- Given 34 max (2014) runners and Amour De Nuit's position at no 76, even with a double penalty I would doubt it unless it cuts up considerably.
By:
ashleigh
When: 18 Sep 15 22:01
thanks.
By:
betilyerded
When: 21 Sep 15 17:33
Hmmmm. Underwhelming performances by Rite To Reign and Gavlar on Saturday.

If I was clutching at straws you could say it wasnt a bad effort coming on the back of a 50 odd day break - particularly if it was a sighter for next month. It was also run quite slowly early on so coming from behind was going to be more difficult.
And the stable isnt in  much form just now.
But like I said. Clutching at straws.....

And as for this statement, I think it might come back to haunt me!

"Dont know why but I love this race. Not as much as the Ayr Gold Cup but still love it.
Strange really, as Tony Blair was in power the last time I backed the winner. Following the advice of my then guru - Gerald Delamere - I backed Miss Fara, back in the days when the Pipe stable could lay one out for a big flat handicap"

It would appear that they now have the jolly!!

Oh happy days.
By:
Facts
When: 21 Sep 15 17:56
I was impressed by Low Key's performance in the Trial. My only bet at the moment
By:
Benjy
When: 21 Sep 15 19:07
Low Key won well at the weekend but still not that likely to get in is he?
By:
Facts
When: 23 Sep 15 09:47
I think he'll sneak in. If you look at  Exchange betting odds, it suggests at least  17 horses above him in the weights,  won't be running ?
By:
Montoria
When: 23 Sep 15 11:24
"I think he'll sneak in. If you look at  Exchange betting odds, it suggests at least  17 horses above him in the weights,  won't be running ?"


The Twisler being one of them !!  Cool
By:
Madhu
When: 23 Sep 15 17:36
Been having a look at Steve Rogers, and added him as another arrow, he looks tough and progressive and looks like easily getting in with a 4lb penalty. BF 36 avg.
By:
Madhu
When: 26 Sep 15 18:37
After today's disappointment in the Cambridgeshire, I have decided to have more arrows than there, and so I have added Seamour mon amour. BF Av 29 for a few bob.
By:
Madhu
When: 26 Sep 15 19:49
Just seen 16+ on here for Heartbreak City and been back to watch his run on Juddmonte International Day,  and  the accomplished ride of  the old school light-weight jockey Franny Norton- ultra-cool and confident ride. Off 90, guaranteed to get in, aimed at the race by the master English handicap plunderer Mr Martin; makes sense dunnit.
By:
betilyerded
When: 30 Sep 15 15:15
Must have been a confirmation stage today as 6 or so are missing, most notably Seamour and Gale Force.

Surprised Oriental Fox is still there as he is meant to be being aimed at Ascot. Change of heart?
By:
Madhu
When: 04 Oct 15 16:33
Any Quick Jack backers out there may like to know Betfair Sportsbook are way out of line with main bookies who have shortened him over the last few days by still offering 16/1.
By:
Madhu
When: 04 Oct 15 17:58
Well the 16's on Quick Jack soon went, now down to 12's!
By:
Madhu
When: 04 Oct 15 22:18
I think there is a few well weighted statistics that would enable one to discount the vast majority of this year’s field and I am gaining more, much more confidence in two of my arrows in particular, Heartbreak City (AvOd  17.81) and Steve Rogers (38.16).

9 of 10 winners finished in the first 4 on their last flat start (1 exception 6th in listed race)
9 of 10 winners (last 9) posted an RPR of 91+ last time
9 of 10 winners had won a race over 2M+ (flat or hurdles)

2014 statistics-http://digital-forums.com/showthread.php/975588-CESAREWITCH-HANDICAP-TRENDS-2014

Definitely worried about Low Key but horses carrying a penalty (1-6-48) have a poor record with only 7/ 48 runners making the frame, although the filly Never Can Tell (RIP) under a brilliant Frankie Dettori ride managed it in 2011.
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