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Forget the Triple Crown bs, where's this gonna happen? Eclipse, Juddmonte, Irish Champion???
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Eclipse.....too close to Royal Ascot for Frankel
Juddmonte....too far for Frankel Irish Champion....Frankel will not travel Frankel will run once over 10f - in the Champion Stakes. Meanwhile Camelot will be off conquering the world in the Arc and the Classic. Only way they meet is if O'Brien decides - having won the Derby - to drop him back in trip for the Sussex Stakes. |
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These two will not meet if Camelot remains on course for the TC. There is nothing for Coolmore to gain in beating Frankel. Potentially they can retire an unbeaten Champion son of Montjeu and also have an unbeaten champion son of Galileo going to stud too. Add in the fact Frankel is owned by a 'friendly' competitor in Juddmonte, with whom they have a reciprocal agreement with nominations (under which agreement Frankel was conceived). They can then have access to Frankel at stud.
Had Frankel been owned by Darley it may have been a different situation.............. |
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I dont expect them 2 meet, if Camelot wins the Derby in gd style, he will be kept for the Arc, not the Triple Crown, prob with the Ire champ st as his prep. Lets see how he gets on at Epsom first.
Over 1mile it would not be a fair contest, "would it" Frankel is just to gd at that trip, prob the best EVER. |
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Millerracing67.Camelot WILL be going to Doncaster if he wins at Epsom,the Triple Crown is very much on the agenda.He may indeed later run in the 'Arc but if all goes well the TC is his objective.St.Leger winners on their own are not wanted by flat breeders but its a whole different ball game when you become a Triple Crown winner.And Camelot's connections have had their eye on a tilt at the TC for a long time now and they are going to all being well have a crack.
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£100 says they dont. If Cam wins the Derby in gd style, which he prob will (hope so as am on ew at 16s)
It will be the Arc all the way. If he turns out as gd as most of us think he is, then he would be 2 gd 2 run in the Leger, the Arc is way more important from a stud point of view. |
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^^How very naive Millerracing67,wait and see then.
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What a waste of a season and two great horses if this clash does not happen
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Triple Crown Sentiment
June 4, 2012 by Brian O'Connor First things first: Camelot going for the St Leger would be a welcome diversion from the norm’ and a much-needed shot in the arm for a race dying on its feet. Still, call me a sceptic, but is all this Triple Crown stuff also handy for keeping out of Frankel’s way? Parse down the post-Derby comments from Messrs Magnier and Smith and it would be easy to conclude that a couple of old codgers have gone all sentimental. And maybe they have. But it’s short odds about it being a novel experience for both of them. One of the most famous observations made about Magnier over the years is that the softest thing about the Coolmore boss is his teeth. The bloodstock empire he has built up is a resolutely commercial enterprise where the bottom line counts. It is true that no Coolmore owned horse has been in the situation Camelot is in now, with a Guineas and a Derby under his belt, so it is virgin territory for all concerned in terms of what to do about a possible Triple Crown bid. The Sea The Stars team decided to go down the ten furlong route before aiming at the Arc and anyone still prepared to criticise them for doing so should remember that getting the better of Rip Van Winkle, Fame And Glory and Mastercrafsman can hardly be regarded as a cop-out. There is also the consideration that the Leger is hardly an obvious trial for the Arc which remains the definitive test for any European middle-distance horse. Plenty still believe winning the Leger cost Nijinsky the Arc. Shergar never ran again after it. Alleged managed to win two Arcs but got beaten in the Leger. By its nature, the world’s oldest classic is a tough ‘gimme.’ So is it offside to wonder that if Frankel wasn’t on the scene, and presumably on the verge of being stepped up to ten furlongs, would Camelot be going down a more predictable route? The Triple Crown is a hell of an achievement, and by definition requires a special talent to pull it off. And the kudos for beating up on some more three year olds might even deflect attention away from not having taken on Frankel in what really would be a clash for the ages. But that’s probably too unsentimental a tack to take. |
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What seems hard for some to accept is the fact Camelot's connections had an idea of a Triple Crown bid after his convincing win in the Racing Post trophy.Running him in the 2000 guineas was obviously make or break in that bid,I can tell you his trainer was very nervous on the day at HQ he knew what was wanted but got the much hoped for result.
And for anyone thinking the St Leger will scupper his chances of success if he goes for the 'Arc after Doncaster,anyone remember Alleged? |
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And for anyone thinking the St Leger will scupper his chances of success if he goes for the 'Arc after Doncaster,anyone remember Alleged?
Yep the 1s that will remember Nijinsky as well neither managed to collect both the Leger & Arc |
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nijinsky wasnt 1005 for that race tho, wasnt he ill at the time?
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5 = % sorry.
ringworm i believe. |
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Don't think there's any question of Coolmore avoiding Frankel. It remains to be seen if Frankel ever races beyond a mile while Camelot looks to me to be an out-and-out middle distance horse.
I would think Camelot will go King George (to notch up a win over older horses) then Leger. I'm trying to remember if there was a reason Galileo missed the Arc - it would not suprise me if Camelot rounded off in the Champion Stakes to put a 10f on the resumé. |
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geoff m 07 Jun 12 10:26
And for anyone thinking the St Leger will scupper his chances of success if he goes for the 'Arc after Doncaster,anyone remember Alleged? Yep the 1s that will remember Nijinsky as well neither managed to collect both the Leger & Arc But don't you see just what a stallion marketing goldmine that will be if he does pull it off?And also the St Leger will almost certainly be nothing more than a hack canter for Camelot,add in 3 weeks until the 'Arc you will still have a fresh horse.I'd guess his targets this year will be Irish Derby,King George little mid summer break then Doncaster followed by the 'Arc then retirement! |
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Sir Henry knows the score
 Cecil keen to let Frankel take on Camelot By Paul Eacott 2:39PM 8 JUN 2012 SIR HENRY CECIL on Friday spoke of his excitement about the prospect of his superstar colt Frankel going head-to-head with the brilliant dual Classic winner Camelot in the Juddmonte International Stakes at York in August. That race looks like being the first time Frankel, the winner of all of his ten starts so far, will race beyond a mile with the Queen Anne Stakes at Royal Ascot in less than two weeks time and the Qipco Sussex Stakes at Glorious Goodwood on August 1 his next two targets. Plans for Camelot, who added the Derby to his win in the Guineas and two successes last year, are more fluid. He heads the betting for the Ladbrokes St Leger and Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe later in the year and also the Dubai Duty Free Irish Derby at the Curragh later in the month. It is, however, the possibility of a clash between the two stars of the Flat at York on August 22 that has racing fans licking their lips and Cecil himself is among the camp who would like to see that momentous event occur. "That would be very exciting," Cecil said. "[Camelot] can still do the Irish Derby, the Juddmonte and the St Leger and I am doing the Sussex Stakes and [then] three weeks after the Juddmonte. He is doing the Irish Derby and a longer break before the Juddmonte and can still go and do the Leger. "Hopefully [Camelot] will go for the Juddmonte and I would love it because it would be exciting," Cecil told At The Races. Frankel beat old foe Excelebration by five lengths on his reappearance at Newbury in the Lockinge Stakes last month and Cecil expects him to improve for that outing. "I am not saying he is going to be but he could be [3 or 4lb better]," the legendary trainer said. "I think he is better, he is stronger this year. I didn't push him but I have never pushed him for his first race anyway, as a two-year-old, a three-year-old or four-year-old. Like a lot of trainers we don't have them 100 per cent first time out, that is just the beginning. Looking ahead to the rest of the season, Cecil continued: "He has got important engagements as the season goes on and the main thing is as long as he can win, let's hope he can win well, it does not matter if it is two lengths or ten lengths. "The Juddmonte will be the most interesting as he is going another two and a half furlongs and he is going against different horses." |
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henry knows camelot isnt going for the juddmonte as is wisely covering himself. why on earth would camelot come back in trip for the juddmonte when he can achieve so much more winning bigger races.
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^^^ my sentiments exactly ilikewavingatbuses,Sir Henry must think some of us came in on the banana boat!
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Sir Henry has laid down the gauntlet. Never had him down as the the bulsh!tting type myself. We await Coolmoore's riposte with breath that is bated.
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So Sir Henry has said where his horse is running, bet he wouldn't change his plans to ensure a clash though would he?
Though after the Leger the most likely race would be the Arc, as I have said on another thread, would love to see Camelot wait for the Champion Stakes. That would be a great finale to the season and that could help build a reputation for the race that could start to rival the Arc |
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lads with all due respect, how stupid can some of you be.
look henry is a very smart man, as ive mentioned on another thread on the main forum, henry has already mapped out camelots programme this year, guineas and derby already won, now he doesnt see the 'problem' in camelot going for the irish derby, coming back to 10f for the juddmonte (which he knows hes not lining up for anyway) and then up to 14f for the leger. all this whilst frankel beats up excelebration or strong suit over a mile (AGAIN  ), steps u to 10f for a likely small field (where i have no doubt coolmore will be represented) and then back to a mile for the sussex (over a mile again)thats a hell of a programme henry has mapped out for his biggest rival, im not sure dropping back to 10 before a go at the leger is a great idea what do u lot think?  then we look at frankels campaign, what a joke, beating up excelebration for the feckin 4th time over a mile last season, take about unambitious but i suppose 'hes just doing whats good for the horse' then we hear the old he still isnt settling and they wanna make sure hes ready for the step up even tho he settled perfectly in the sussex making his own running and then the same at ascot at the end of the season. gimme a break henry. camelot has already achieved more than frankel in 4 runs, forget ratings, if he wins the leger he will join an elite club in the racing ranks that only a handful of horses have ever done. let frankel run in lesser races and beat up the same milers in the sussex and allow camelot to win the best races he possibly can.race him next year over 12 aidan |
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roobuck
Date Joined: 16 Aug 1Add contact | Send message 09 Jun 12 07:54 Joined: 16 Aug 10 | Topic/replies: 996 | Blogger: roobuck's blog So Sir Henry has said where his horse is running, bet he wouldn't change his plans to ensure a clash though would he? Though after the Leger the most likely race would be the Arc, as I have said on another thread, would love to see Camelot wait for the Champion Stakes. That would be a great finale to the season and that could help build a reputation for the race that could start to rival the Arc roo the champion is a substandard backend group 1 for over the top horses as a last resort because the horse has either disappointed in the arc or isnt going to the states. why would a horse like camelot race in that when he can potentially win the feckin ARC? a race tailormade for him over his obvious prefered distance and is of far greater value for both breeding and for prize money. why should camelot drop in trip to suit frankel and henry? |
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This is most un-ILWAB-like
 "all this whilst frankel beats up excelebration or strong suit over a mile (AGAIN), steps u to 10f for a likely small field (where i have no doubt coolmore will be represented) and then back to a mile for the sussex (over a mile again)" I'm assuming you mean the Juddmonte, which in all my years, I can't recall being BEFORE the Sussex  Needless to say...you'll post that you meant the Eclipse and try to squirm your way out of such a wretched hole   |
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Got to say H Cecil makes me laugh with his 'excitement' at the thought of Frankel being challenged by Camelot in the Juddmonte. How on Earth is that going to happen Henry? So you think dropping Camelot back to 10f as prep for his attempt at the 14f Triple Crown event is ideal preparation. Clearly not, this is his attempt to keep Frankel wrapped up in cotton wool; it really was pointless keeping the thing in training when all you are doing is confirming the same superiority of the same listed/G3 horses over the same distance.
All through the winter Frankel was going to have its seasonal debut in the Lochinge then step up to 10f at RA. Where's you bollocks gone fella. I can understand you not stepping Frankel back to 6f to get a butchering off the imperious Black Caviar but surely to God there is no reason to delay any further attempting the step up to 10f now; the horse even seems to settle that bit better so give it a go. Whatever, stop the embarrassing posturing of pretending to want to meet Camelot over 10f when there is more chance of meeting Black Caviar of hurdles!! |
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I think ILWAB is correct in stating there'll be a small field in the Juddmonte and consequently Frankel will not be properly tested.
Unless he's REALLY stretching to the line at York in the unlikely event of a strongly run race, I have a feeling this will be the only time we'll see him over 10f (therefore no chance of an Arc run) and I hate to say it, but it does seem like Henry's balls are shrinking. I don't think he'll risk his unbeaten record with an adventurous & ambitious campaign, and I suspect Cecil figures over the York C&D in a small field, Frankel would thrash Camelot! I'm of the same view. In an ideal situation, it'd be nice to see Frankel beat Camelot handsomely, and for the runner-up to lose NO caste in defeat (like Bustino) and in fact have his reputation further ENHANCED in winning ALL his other races! Furthermore, for Camelot to replace Frankel as the 'people's horse' and then becoming the most sought after stallion in the world! It'd be a victory for the sport in that fortune favours the brave - we can dream can't we?  |
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I'm as big a fan of Cecil as everyone else seems to be, but I did think he was rather arrogant when interviewed on RUK, when Sick Fcuk asked some very pertinent questions.
I could understand him comparing Frankel with Camelot & Black Caviar over their optimal trips in relation to Usain Bolt racing over 800 or even 400 metres...but a MARATHON!  That's a ludicrous analogy, and it looked like he resented being 'cornered' with a poser he didn't like. We ALL know that Frankel would be long odds-on in ANY race against 'normal' group one opposition over 6f - 10f. |
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ILWAB - think you should engage brain and understand the point people are trying to make before going off on one.
I understand that most likely to go the Arc but want him to go for Champion not for HRAC's or Frankel's benefit -purely mine ( and I'm guessing quite a lot of racing people ) to see the clash happen. It won't happen in the Juddmonte for the reasons you mention. Traditionally the Champion has been a poor Group 1 but there is obviously an attempt to improve this with the Champion series and moving to Ascot. If Camelot is in fact an unbeaten Triple Crown winner and Frankel is still unbeaten, Prince Fad I'm sure would put the extra money up required to make it happen if that was an issue. I know it is very unlikely to happen, but I want to see it. that's all |
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i appreciate u want to see the clash roo and i would be happy to watch the clash too but dont u think its a bit funny henry is planning this campaign for camelot up and down in trips like a yo-yo yet hes happy to keep frankel at a mile until the end of his 4yr old season? henry KNOWS the juddmonte is NOT on camelots agenda and is simply (and cleverly) making it look like he wants them to meet even tho he knows theres no chance of it happening. everything is in frankels favour for that race, the horse has had an easy time of it his whole life and his connections have molly coddled him never once wanting to test the feckin colt. under any other connections this horse wouldve seen 10f (at least) by now. now hes trying to coax aidan to run him in a race over 10 and the horse clearly wants 12f and doing so would severely put his triple crown chances in jeopardy.
i have never seen henry do this before and i reckon he just wants the scalp of a guineas and derby winner over an inadequate trip (for camelot) and entirely in favour of frankel. henry will only race frankel under handpicked conditions and i suggest aidan does the same for camelot, perhaps beating camelot would would ease the regret of not going for the derby last season who knows but whilst many applaude henrys handling of frankel, i see it as completely gutless and a complete waste of time. just look what camelot has achieved in 4 runs and look at what he still might achieve. then look at frankel, as brilliant as he undoubtedly is, hes won a guineas and a few mile races beating the same horse excel and canford once in a division absolutely devoid of depth. henry has run scared with this colt his whole career, frankel even gets credit for beating an irish derby winner in treasure beach and a king george winner in nathaniel even tho he beat the latter in his first ever race over a mile and he beat TB in the royal lodge at 2 u would think he beat both horses over 12f they way they talk.frankel isnt even ENTERED in the prince of wales? wtf isnt this horse running in that race? joke of a campaign, im bored. |
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Frankel is in the Prince of Wales and IMO should take the opportunity to run in it against fellow older horses before the 3yos enter the fray. Some good middle distance horses will turn up - Cirrus, SYT, perhaps others - and the question of Frankel's effectiveness over a longer trip could be settled relatively early in the season. Beating Excelebration again in the Queen Anne will just be deja vu - exciting though it will be to watch Frankel again
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It can't be that clever a ploy of Henry's if you've worked it out ILWAB.
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not my fault u dont understand whats going on here joni. its as plain as the nose on your face henry knows the juddmonte is not the plan for camelot. ironically im sure he believes camelot would get beat by frankel anyway but hes still making the comments knowin it wasnt ever happening. just like a race was neevr gonna yake place with BC. all just to save face. i like henry as much as everyone else but he got frankels campaign wrong, the horse couldve achieved so much more and even if he couldnt have, at least had he tried to run him over 10 by now we'd know and we could just be happy to see him run over a mile, instead theres all this 'what if....'.
a wasted opportunity. |
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i like henry as much as everyone else but he got frankels campaign wrong,
So one of the best trainers of all time is wrong ..... and you're correct. I didn't realise this forum had posters of such high esteem. |
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Completely agree with Ilwab re Frankel.
Should be running in POW imo as the Queen Anne likely to be very small field and him beating horses he has already beaten. And then the Sussex to take on the vintage crop of 3yo milers? Not sure I see the point of keeping him in training at the moment tbh. Yes its good to see a great athlete but we need to find out how good he is and that means a change of distance |
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Ilwab, you make some very valid points r ececils handling of Frankel, which up until now i believe to have been near faultless. However their current lack of ambition and/or sporting spirit with regards to stepping him up in trip( and consequently standard of racing, is doing a great disservice to the racing fraternity and flat product as a whole. The obvious first port of call imo should have been that shambles of a world cup @ Meydan. You cannot tell me that frankel would not have outclassed monterosso, Planteur,capponi and the like, over any trip you may care to mention. You might argue that by going to Dubai so early you leave your season behind, and their is a school of thought to suuport this theory, but plenty of top horses have won or run well in the world cup and sheema classic and then gone on to win multiple goup 1 races in europe and America, suchas the mighty dubai millenium, singspiel, Rewilding, Cape Blanco, Cigar ,victoire Pisa, Da re Mi to name but a few. If he had gone there he would have proved himself not only over 10f but also on an artificial surface, which would have allowed his connections to truly lay claim to having the best thoroughbred in the world over any trip/surface. This has not happened, and now we have the QA, Sussex which will tell us nothing new. What would make the Juddmonte interesting is if AOB sent H queen,Excelebration and power as truly group 1 pacemakers for camelot to set the kind of world record fractions that would truly stretch the mighty Frankel, and give camelot a fighting chance of beating this mighty horse. Coolmore nearly pulled this tactic off with Mastercraftsman against sts, and it would be a truly fantastic spectacle to see this scenario unfold.
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The problem with your earlier rant ILWAB is that your one reasonable arguement loses all credibility because of all the moronic tripe you posted with it.
To say that all he did last year was win "a guineas and a few mile races beating the same horse excel and canford once in a division absolutely devoid of depth" is clueless. In addition to 5 time Group 1 winner Canford Cliffs and Excel you leave out 5 time Group 1 winner Dream Ahead who he beat twice and who beat Goldikova over 7f. You leave out three time Group 1 winner Immortal Verse. In fact he has beaten the winners of 29 Group 1 races. Arguably the mile division had more depth than the 10f division last year where you only really had Cirrhus, Snow Fairy and SYT - remember the Juddmonte? Over a mile there was Goldi, Imm Verse, Canford, and Excel and Frankel beat three of those - two of which had beaten Goldi. You even seem to want to decry him for beating TB and Nathaniel. Why would you NOT want to give him credit for that?! He might not have beaten Nathaniel over his optimum trip but he certainly beat him over his optimum conditions in a canter. Treasure Beach has won a Grade 1 over 10f so is clearly not devoid of paceand he was beaten 11 lengths. 11 lengths!!! No credit for that huh? Talk sense man. By all means have an opinion on his race programme this year but to knock what he has done over his 2 and 3 year old campaigns is frankly embarrassing and either shows a supreme lack of knowledge and understanding or suggests there is some other agenda going on. Roo I am disappointed with your comments as I always like reading what you say but I can understand why people are frustrated at his proposed campaign and here ILWAB has a very valid point. Personally I think the Lockinge was the perfect starting point for a horse who lets remember, despite what we might have WANTED him to be, was a miler last year. Then there was always the choice of QA or POW. I too would have preferred POW but they have gone with QA. Then the talk was of the Eclipse but now it looks like being the Sussex. This is a big head scratcher for me. I can only think that Henry still has doubts that Frankel will get a truly run 10f over a stiff track like Ascot or Sandown. York, despite being half a furlong longer, is a much easier track and I am assuming that is the reason they are waiting til then. I hope a decent field turns up, lets not forget Sea The Stars ran there. Henry has said in interview recently "what are we trying to prove?" - connections take on it seems to be that as long as they step him up at some point that will be enough. I was stood 2 feet away from Henry when he was interviewed by Nick Luck at Newmarket and to suggest that this was some ingenious cover up is of course ludicrous. I have even heard some people say he was trying to map out Camelot's campaign for him?! What he was doing guys is called HYPOTHESISING. It is perfectly valid to suggest that Camelot could in theory run in the Juddmonte or the Champion. Of course he could and if Coolmore wanted to prove they have the better horse than what better way to show it than taking on Frankel? One thing Henry has never done with Frankel is change his plans because of the opposition. Will they ever meet? No. But I would suggest not because Henry doesnt want it. I am very doubtful that Coolmore would want to see their future Triple Crown winner thumped. Better to leave it as an open ended question. I will be there for the remainder of Frankels races because he is a legend and joy to watch and I for one am delighted that they sportingly kept him in training when it would have been far easier to retire him as so many others do. Soon we will be talking about this horse in the past tense so I want to enjoy him in the present. Would I have chosen this programme? No. Am I slightly disappointed? Yes. But it is outweighed by the thrill of seeing him in action. Nobody complains when Bolt beats the same runners every time. Nobody seems to worry when Quevega wins the same race at Cheltenham or Big Bucks. The problem with Frankel is that he is SOOOOO good he actually makes it look unfair on the others. But if seeing this once in a lifetime horse in action bores you I might respectfully suggest you are following the wrong sport. |
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Interesting the amount of times Usain Bolt is mentioned.
Bolt made his name over 200m before(ironically) dropping back in trip to test himself at 100m. We also get to see him race in the 4x100m every now and then. People will be bored of Frankel by the time the Sussex comes along and No matter how much people try and hype up Frankel he'll be remembered as a 'what if' horse than a 'what he did' horse such as Brigadier Gerrard. |
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Joni I have no problem whatsoever with his 3yo campaign, other than he could perhaps have had another run.
I know that you are HRAC's number one fan but surely you are frustrated by the conservative nature of his campaign this year, the traditional English Group 1s. Not even an entry in the Irish Champion which is basically the same gap that would be for Camelot after the Juddmonte to the St Leger. It is great to have him in training but what actually is the purpose - simply to mop up some easy Group 1s because he is so good over a mile? I love racing but also love most sports. But really the only time I really engage is when it is competitive, when all parties need to be stretched to be successful. Most top level sportsmen having proved themselves tend to look for the next challenge to test their abilities and those that don't, are criticised for a lack of ambition. To the examples you gave as mentioned Usain Bolt runs over both 100 and 200m, and I believe he has tried 400m though I cannot be sure about that. Big Bucks if you remember tried steeplechasing. Also it is slightly different as at each festival he has different challengers. Quevega imo should run in the World Hurdle. The clash against BB would be great for the sport. You say that Frankel is a once in a lifetime horse and he could very well be so. In full flow he is a sight to behold. But Sea The Stars and perhaps Camelot have an awful lot going for them and it can be argued that they have achieved more. You think that Frankel will beat Camelot but you don't actually know and the problem with Cecil is that he is suggesting what races other horses should run in to meet Frankel as he will not change course. As you rightly say he won't change plans to make a clash and that in my mind, however much I rate him a trainer, is not particularly sporting and having racing best interests at heart. If he is worried about getting the trip, why not drop back in distance for one race? I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that he would beat every European horse over 6F and so the July Cup or even the Haydock Sprint would be something different if Cecil insisted on staying in this country. Of course he won't but beating the same horses at Ascot and Goodwood will not be the spectacle they could be if Frankel's next two races were over a new distance. Boring is perhaps the wrong word, but you cannot help to feel a little underwhelmed when as requestingflyby says 'what if' |
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I agree with virtually all of what you say Roo. As I said in my post I am slightly disappointed at this campaign. Especially the decision to go to the Sussex.
You are correct that it is only my opinion that he would beat Camelot but I am not sure how you can argue that Camelot has achieved more than Frankel - yet. Sea The Stars was of course a legend and again I can see why people would argue that he has achieved more. Both have clearly shown that they were more versatile than Frankel but is versatility the only measure of greatness? Frankel was a champion at 2, 3 and now 4. STS only at 3. Frankel has won on all types of ground. John Oxx didnt want to run STS on worse than good. Frankel wins his races by wide margins. STS did just enough. They are both great horses and Camelot is well on his way as well. We are blessed to be seeing them all so close together - not to mention a certain Australian mare! You are right that Henry wont change his plans but I doubt Coolmore would either do you? As I have said there are some very valid arguements here but what I object to (and the reason I rarely post on here anymore) is people putting down what this horse has done so far. That is nonsensical. If, by the end of the season he has only beaten donkeys in a series of processions I too will be bitterly disappointed. I am prepared to be patient and wait for the Juddmonte and The Champion and hope that he will show what he can do over further at least against the likes of Cirrhus and Snow Fairy if not Camelot. |
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Frankel to me is like Dayjur - a horse of freakish ability. The shame is that we'll probably never know if he was also another Brigadier Gerard.
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Frankel is not yet a Champion 4yo though I am sure he will be
Camelot won a Group 1 in his second race as a 2yo, and two Group 1s/Classics over 1/2 mile difference at 3 and I would suggest just as impressively in different ways to Frankel. What STS achieved in his 3yo campaign was extraordinary and I would be surprised if we ever see the like again. His performance in the Arc, regardless of the strength of the field, when pulling hard, trapped in on the rail and win going away at the end of a busy season was simply immense. I guess the frustrating thing is that as AT says Frankel hints at having even more ability but I just want to see him given the opportunity to prove it. Finally Coolmore have a history of taking their horses all over the world to race. Camelot is in his 3yo campaign and it appears the Triple Crown is the objective. I would suggest that this is sporting enough given the recent rejection of the St Leger from a breeding perspective. Anyway as you say we are blessed to have seen these three horses in such a short space of time. Time will tell what both Frankel and Camelot achieve. |