~~~ TINGLE CREEK Chase ~~~

Sint, if the ground is riding good ish, then I wouldnt risk it.

All three of them like fast ground, so could all run a decent race.

I think the risk is too high for the reward.

Wouldnt put you off doing it though.

6/1 is too big.

I cant see Sizing being at his prime in the Tingle.

He might not have to be at his best to win though!

Sint.. Im thinking only two places...!

But if there were three places, well, that would be far more tempting!

Currently it is an ante-psot market with 11 entered runners, so three places are available. Come Saturday it may well be 2, though.

I am going to hold fire at the moment anyway. It is an obvious thing to say but any of the front 4 can win this race, for a variety of reasons.

Gone off FR and tataniano now- they dont have the form to beat SE.... the one true grade 1 horse in the race

Delighted they are finally running Wishfull Thinking over 2 miles. The worry is the jostle for the lead but I am hoping the others allow him it thinking they will pick him off for speed late on. If he does get in front his jumping could get them all at it in behind.

racing_post Racing Post
Finian's Rainbow, as short as 11-4 for the Tingle Creek, misses Sandown's Saturday feature

Finian's out. Splendid news.

What ? Why do you say that ffs!

Think he was being sarcastic.

CheltFestNews CheltFestNews
Finian's Rainbow to bypass Tingle Creek for Desert Orchid Chase at Kempton over Xmas. Not ready in time according to Henderson.

I dont.

I guess Albion Dan has backed WT. Still, it does rob us of some of the lustre for the race. Thankfully FR is not injured, he is just not ready.

So on Tuesday lunchtime he's not going to be ready in time. You'd think this might have influenced the decision to declare him just over 24 hours earlie. Gotta love some of these trainers 

Sorry sint, wasn't to wind you up. As a WT backer very happy as not only one of the main threats is out, but the horse that was most likely to challenge him for the lead.

I understand where your coming from Dan. Just a shame he is not running imo.

I wonder if they have just bottled it tbh for an easier assignment as TT says. It is his seasonal debut afterall.

Yeah I think they have bottled it. For me he would be the one that paid most for a struggle for the lead. His jumping went to pieces at Newbury when they tried holding him up. I think the presence of 3 other prominent runners probably swayed them to miss it.

yep good point.

I suspect SE will settle just off the pace with the other two contesting it.

Not a fan of Tataniano tbh. Think the race he won last time was utter dross as I rate Woolcombe Folly even less...

The race would have been a darn sight more interesting with FR,and i for one am gutted hes out,seeing as i am going on Saturday and want to see the best possible race.We all want to win our bets but not if it means the race gets diluted to achieve that.
Dont you agree AD??

Doubt hes bottled it myself,they have to make a decision some time and dont see anything wrong with deciding today.
Maybe today was his last bit of work and it did not go as they wanted.

i agree bud.

its always better to see all the best horses run. especially over 2 miles.

I think FR just wasnt right, and unfortunately they have done the right thing for the horse.

The Tingle will still make us tingle!.

The closer the day an the more Im feeling a sizing victory.

With Tataniano for the forecast!

If SE turns up anywhere near the form he was in march then we will tingle alright!!
I would have Gauvain in front of Tatanaino.

Gauvain is classy. I can see why you like him.

Hes in form,and on form with W Folly he beats Tataniano.
Hes not trained by Nicholls though!!

Rain forecast, stone set to go

Potential fly in the ointment??

oh yeah

I do sort of agree Budd, however Finian's not going is massive for WT imo. If I had to choose one to be a NR it would have been him.

Im quite tempted to have an eachway play on WT now that FR is missing. He was my initial inkling at the prices but decided against it due to the possibility of all 4 main contenders looking potential winners. Now that FR is out, i'd be surprised if WT is out of the first three, 4/1 fair enough even at 1/5 the odds, may only be 7 runners by Saturday.

OK, chanced a back on WT eachway. He has an unsual profile for this race in that he has never won a graded chase over 2 miles, but given he is a front runner and doesn't seem to lack speed, this race may just suit him. I seem to recall Hobbs using the words ''stepping stone'' prior to his PP run aswell!

I just hope he can jump around Sandown, which is always a tough test.

Am a big fan on Tataniano, included him in my TTF list last year and this year! But the form of his races doesn't stack up for me.

Btw, for anyone who is backing him, I just read a quote from PN in OJA 2010 where he says '' He does jump and he'd be some horse around Sandown''. This was after his Maghull Novices win 18 months, so clearly PN has always thought of this horse as potentially top class.

Agree with view that NJH is bottling it with Finians. Also looks like he wont run Sprinter Sacre on Saturday either despite entering him for G1 novice. He is obviously a brillant trainer of hurdlers but his chasers dont seem to have same careers at all. Might be wrong perception but do a lot seem to get wrapped up in cotton wool as novices then fade away ?

what makes you think he wont run SS on saturday?

No horses were permitted to travel on the Rosslare to Fishguard ferry, while the Dublin to Holyhead service was cancelled.


Henry de Bromhead, Irish racehorse trainer, sizing up travel options for Sandown raider

Many Irish-based horses, and their concerned trainers and lads, have crossed the Irish Sea in winter to take up engagements at major race meetings in Britain. Most have arrived safe and sound, but, if you listen to Henry de Bromhead, trainer of Saturday’s Tingle Creek Chase favourite Sizing Europe, you can take nothing for granted.

By J A McGrath telegraph.co.uk

On Tuesday, no horses were permitted to travel on the Rosslare to Fishguard ferry, while the Dublin to Holyhead service was cancelled. Inclement weather, and the resultant rough seas, have made the shipping of star racehorses a precarious business. “It’s a worry, of course it is,” De Bromhead said on Tuesday night.


“We are booked to sail in the morning [Wednesday], and with a bit of luck, we’ll be OK. But, if they don’t permit us to take the horses on board, we will have to wait for another ferry in the afternoon. We are hoping that the horses will arrive at Sandown and settle in later the same day,” he explained.


The trainer is bringing the talented novice hurdler Sizing Symphony, who runs in Friday’s Neptune Investment Novices’ Hurdle at Sandown, as company for Sizing Europe, the reigning champion two-mile chaser. “I like my horses to have one full day in a new place before they race, which we should be able to do with Sizing Europe. On the other hand, ‘Symphony’ will be running the next day [after arrival],” he pointed out.


Meanwhile, De Bromhead was surprised to hear news that Finian’s Rainbow, the 3-1 second favourite for the Tingle Creek, is now to miss the race.


Trainer Nicky Henderson said: “He’s just not quite ready, and we might wait for the Desert Orchid [Chase] at Kempton.”


This has prompted a reshuffle at the top of the market, with Sizing Europe firming to 6-4 with leading firms, while the Paul Nicholls-trained Tataniano has come in to 3-1.

For a rival trainer, De Bromhead’s reaction was predictable. “It all helps, though I just have to get there,” he said. “Sizing Europe had a hard race at Down Royal but he seems to have come out of it well, and we’re hoping he runs well. He seems great in himself.”

Sizing Europe is also the 4-1 ante-post favourite to retain his crown in the Queen Mother Champion Chase at Cheltenham in March, though bookmakers have Big Zeb challenging him at the head of the market

Bud..

The pair could also be joined by Eradicate, a winner at Doncaster last Friday and Henderson said: "'We've got Sprinter Sacre and Eradicate in the race but I'm not certain to run Sprinter Sacre as I'm not sure he's quite ready.

"He is entered at Warwick on Sunday as well but I want to run El Mondo in that."

Fcuking hell Nicky the season has started mate. About time you started getting a few ready.
Shame that Finians Rainbow is out because as a spectacle he was the most exciting addition to the race. WT wouldn't live with him up front. There aren't many 2 milers I can think of that can let alone a horse trying 2 miles for the first time. I would be with Sizing now or possibly Kauto Stone if it does rain. Tataniano looks a touch soft to me although he's a fantastic jumper. Guavain also looks to have his beating on all known form.

Have to be honest I know he's going for the KG as no1 plan but surprised Master Minded isn't running in this. I would give him a big chance.

Cheers G1,have seen that now.Really hope he does run Saturday,but like you i fear he will run at Warwick.

MM,you wont see your mate in a 2m race anymore, it seems they think he cant muck it at that distance anymore.2and half m looks his distance now.

Geraghty will surely be at Fairyhouse on Sunday so I cant see Sprinter Sacre at Warwick either unless AP will be free to ride.

Last year Finian's had two spins at Newbury in 3 runner races and 1 at Warwick in a 4 runner race before the Arkle. I suppose the NJH strategy - if thats what it is - leaves his horses fresh enough for Aintree and maybe Punchestown.

The majority of Novice races are small fields. You rarely get more than 8 runners these days unless it is a handicap or a race at one of the Festivals.

The 4 runner race at Warwick also happened to be a Grade 2.

The Warwick Grade 2 has a good pedigree for churning out top class horses

Kauto Stone romps home

I fancied WT and Gauvin as solid e/w bets but this news about Kauto Stone is a fly in the ointment

What news ?

Kauto Stone declared

Is he a 2 miler ?

is he any good??

Is he running???

Gauvain at 14/1 looks the bet imo.

Aye just seen Gauvin is on the drift, 14/1 with 3 places is a bit big imo??

Key to this race may be to find who jumps best especially if its not soft and they are apporaoching the fences
at speed. Best jummpers imo are Wishful thinking and Tataniano. WT in particular is a fast jumper but stopped
like he'd been hit by a Tazar gun last time and I cann't come up with a reason why this happened, I would
be grateful if anyone could come up with a reason why he stopped so quick. Tatanino when 100% is a very good jumper but is he good enough and WT is very likely to win the battle for the lead. If it comes up soft GAUvain
could pick them off late. I don't think KS jumps well enough and despite winning and coming second in his last
2 races Sizing Europe has disappointed in both despite looking very well, if it comes up soft I'd say he's a
definite no-no.

oh yeah kauto stone set to go as i mentioned a couple of days ago, all over the antepost value, taking a punt on the potential class factor here as i dont like tathorse, wishfull thinkung a player provided he has the speed to live with sizing, on the other hand i thought his target was the king george so maybe this race put him spot on for that.

WT stopped quickly as he was carrying a load of lead in his pocket.

I dont know about anyone else but I could have Kauto Stome for this at all. The rain expected at Sandown arrives this evening, so I suspect this might be why he is in at the 48 hr stage ..

.. but besides, if he does run is he really going to be suited to 2 miles on goodish ground ? All his best form is over 20f on Soft or Heavy .. and he is also a 5 year old. Some horse if he wins imo.

And he went to fast when needing the run. Very creditable run in 6th off 164 imo.

Tataniano 7/2 best price,Gauvain 14 ??

Very strange odds looking at the form book,are people backing the trainer??

By the way,i have still not read a decent reason on here why any of this lot should beat the Champion Chaser.
Probably cos there aint one.

his french form is all on soft because that is whar the ground is like there. 
class horses run well on good going and looking at his pedigree you would have to say he is a top class prospect.

i wouldnt not back him just because he hasnt ran on good yet(cant hold that against him)

also it is not unusual for a 5yo to win this race.

the stone has won in excess of £500,000 in prize money at the tender age of five.
a staggering amount of prize money for such a young horse.


the thing im concerned about is whyis ruby not riding him?
i expect a late jockey change

Soft or Heavy ground his only chance imo,anything better than that then 2m class will tell i would think.

champion chaser not 100% at all, potts is a renowned big time gambler and the only day it matters for him is QMCC,

de bromhead up to his usual tricks.


obviously if he is here to win and on top of his form he will be extremely hard to beat, the horse has a serious engine with a high cruising speed, jumps fantastic.

How on earth do you know he aint 100%??
Hes had 2 runs this season so should be ripe for this.
Prestige race with a big pot,hes here to win.

ok mate dont start crying about it you sensitive soul


back him then, dont let me stop you

Budd, are you even betting in the race ?

It does put me off of Sizing Europe that they keep arsing around with his distances. Being left to win his first start this season and a 3mile slog lto aren't really ideal Tingle Creek preparations. His best performances have obviously been over 2 miles though so it would be no suprise to see him bounce back to form. Difficult one to weight up imo.

buddeliea
Date Joined: 19 Mar 04
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Tataniano 7/2 best price,Gauvain 14 ??

Very strange odds looking at the form book,are people backing the trainer??

By the way,i have still not read a decent reason on here why any of this lot should beat the Champion Chaser.
Probably cos there aint one.

This is a pretty strong opinion Budd, so it begs the question,imo, are you backing SE ? If not, why not ?

I am convinced that Sizing Europe will win this and win it well. The others are not in the same league. Horse among mules. Get on and stop trying to find something to beat it.

Grow up Hoff,we are having a sensible discussion about the race,or were!!Now can you tell me why SE aint 100% as you stated matter of factly.

Sint,
i am going on Saturday and will back just before the race,with all the info i need.If i am  happy with SE and it dont get too heavy i will back him strongly.The forecast rain concerns me a tad and stops me backing antepost.

Yes its a strong opinion,but i happen to think hes by far the best horse in the race.
Having daid that however,the one horse i find fascinating is WT over 2m,cos of the way he COULD perform at the distance.

just backd kauto at 13/2. hoping for rain!


gl

Fair enough Budd. If you planned to wait for Saturday when on course then who am I to argue!

I think the vast majoirty of people believe SE is the best horse in the race, he quite simply is, it just depends on how you view his last run over 3 miles. Will it have taken the edge off him/bottomed him? etc. We'll find out soon enough.

If this was at Chelt id think he was a good thing, all of his last 6 defeats have come going right handed though so i wouldnt be rushing to take a short price here

Can see a cracker with something coming off the pace

Who does Ruby ride? Tat or KS

neill, he rides tat unless theres a good bit of rain in which case he rides ks. id imagine nicholls will only have one runner either way...although if its good i suppose theres a chance both will run

Ta reve enlightening, KS to the Durkan so

Sint,
Im not that concerned about his last run,think he will be ok and would not be here if he werent right,but i do take your point.I also take Zils point about right handed which i had thought of,but his run behind BZ werent too bad imo.
Its possible that Sandown wont suit as happened with BZ the other year,so there are of course reasons why he could get beat,but i cant see a better horse as the reason i guess is what i am saying.
As i say i will wait till the race before committing,look at the odds,the going and then decide how much to gamble.
Gauvain is a place bet imo,and possibly Forecast.
WT the one horse i am bothered about,totally unexposed as a 2 miler.

Have to say, for me, this race lost almost all of its interest when Finian's was confirmed a non-runner.

I think Tataniano is probably not that good, I don't think Wishfull Thinking is top drawer either, and I am concerned with Sizing Europe's prep, although I think he's the best by quite a way. Add in the fact that none of the outsiders look good enough to capitalise on a potentially softish renewal and I'm left thinking this is a classic no-bet race.

I'm with Tomdeane; a classic no bet race.
Think SE should win but cannot bet after his prep, don't like Tataniano and not sure WT needs the drop back to 2 miles.
The rest are average handicappers.
Shall watch and enjoy; but not invest!

Cornas is an interesting outsider IF there is more rain tonight. I know he is not top class, but ALL his best runs have come right-handed on Soft ground, places like Limerick,Exeter and of course Sandown where he dotted up in Grade 2 handicap last season.

But like I said only if it gets Soft, imo.

It does look a tricky race to bet in, agreed. But surely it is intriguing to see how WT copes with the drop back to 2 miles and whether or not Tataniano can take the step up in class and win to give PN his 7th straight victory in the race.  You then have various outsiders who could spring a shock in a big race if the others underpeform for whatever reason.

Had Tataniano for this for a while now but there's no denying that if you go through the form it doesn't amount to much. But WT hasn't run a 2 mile race as a chaser (8 starts), SE had a really tough one lto, I think KS probably won't run, and the rest have too much to find.

Tataniano's jumping plus the trainer record swing it for me, but I can't say I have much confidence.

Agree with it being a no bet race unless it really rains, then id back Cornas, OR's can really be made a mockery of by the conditions of softer ground and a pace that is likely to be relentless, get one of the railway fences wrong and you are gone

"WT stopped quickly as he was carrying a load of lead in his pocket"
"And he went to fast when needing the run. Very creditable run in 6th off 164 imo". Appreciate the opinions.
Didn't realise he was giving a stone plus away to all those who finished in front of him and I also didn't realise that it was his first run of the season . Maybe a combination of too much weight, lack of fitness and
possibly at the top level 2m is his best trip took their toll. Had a look at his Aintree win last year and he did look significantly thinner than last time out,he also put in some v.impressive jumps(over stiff fences) and had the race won a long way out.Also the Hobbs stable was in great form last week.Unlike the 2m novice chasers I don't
think the experienced 2m horses are that good this year and the cash is going down on Wishful Thinking in this one.

Tataniano - OUT FOR SEASON.

was looking at big liabilities, big profits day before the race, thats how i live my life

things can only get better after your FULL BANK LAY on walkon

whats it they say...EASY COME,EASY GO u/l hoff

gloating about making money from an injured horse, hoff ? Or have I read that wrong ?

Kauto Stone and Ruby Walsh in the Tingle Creek

Now that would be special. Kauto Stars half brother keeping up the family traditions!

ilikewavingatbuses
01 Dec 11 19:08   

just backd kauto at 13/2. hoping for rain!


gl




hope so

Small field, question marks about the rest... Got to be Gauvain @10/1.

Gone for Laddies 14-1 Cornas in the "Without Sizing" market, enough question marks about the novices and the trip and this one has ideal conditions and looks more certain to run his race more than some of the others

i think gauvain needs a small field and to be fresh!

With the owner stating Wishful thinking stopped at Chelt due to a reccurence of a Breathing problem I've
ditched the bet placed on him . With the ground looking likely to be testing KS cann't be as easily dismissed as
when the ground was better. Some of the outsides have a chance of winning by de-fault with so many if's
and buts about the 3 favourites.  A no bet race for me now.

youd wonder why wt doesnt get a wind op if hes struggling!

why does everyone assume KS needs it soft? has he tried anything better?

hope you smashed him Budd!

well done with Cornas, Zil. Cracking ew bet on here with 3 places up for grabs imo. I'd already backed WT ante-post,though, so left him alone. Nice run for 3rd place from him.

It does make you wonder where Tataniano would have finished given KS was their ''second string'' imo

Sadly i backed it win only Sint 0-13 over the sticks but im punting to low stakes, still done 20 odd points since the Breeders Cup

Virtually all my profits came in the 6 months up until the end of June and im virtually stagnant since the Ebor

Cracking time in the spring and summer though

It was great Sint,that is some horse,got some great pictures for my collection.
My only winner of the day and dug me out of a deepening hole!! And odds against on the day!!!
Really glad i went,was a pleasure to watch a true champion.

Superb from Sizing!

Either WT is struggling with breathing, he has gone mental, or Dickie is trying to kill him.