Frankel - thread if you got it wrong early doors

clues up on him now

Not at all ... earliest thread on Frankel below chronologically ordered.

zilzal1 interestingly never puts up his opinion we all know what that means (clueless antepost but doesnt want to let that fact out).




eric_morris
When: 28 Aug 10 08:37

You forced me in on him was going to wait a little longer. Been thinking since his run he has Racing Post Trophy written all

over him and he has shown he acts well on the likely ground at Doncaster. All going to plan that will make him much shorter

than 25s HRAC likes the race for a Derby build up. Really strong pacey middle distance type and ideally suited to the race.

eric_morris
When: 03 Sep 10 18:05

Excellent, good prep for the Racing Post Trophy. Not sure he looks a Lingfield Derby Trial type hoping he will be Dante

bound after his 2yo campaign.


Dark Destroyer
When: 10 Sep 10 11:54

Does anyone know the number of Cecil runners in the 2,000 over the past 10 years or so? Maybe it is just Twice Over swerving

the race which is clouding my judgement but right now Frankel does not appeal to me for Newmarket on that basis alone.


sintonian
When: 10 Sep 10 17:00

sorry folkes but he was racing against a debutant. It was a non-event.


eric_morris
When: 10 Sep 10 18:10

He oozes class and is an excellent Derby prospect. HRAC should go Racing Post Trophy now as the horse acts on the likely

ground there and wont jar himself up. A gradual build up for the Derby now this could be the one to put HRAC back on the map

with colts. On at 25s but may go in again at 20s. Never felt this way about St Nick as a 2yo.


jamesp
When: 10 Sep 10 18:13

He looks much more like a Derby horse than a Guineas one, but his next race will tell us a lot more.  The dam Kind was quite

headstrong and only won over 5-7f but she is from a stamina-laden family: she's a half-sister to Powerscourt (top class

10-12f winner), Brimming (13-14f winner) and Westlake (12f winner).  Kind's dam Rainbow Lake (by Rainbow Quest) won the

Lancashire Oaks and was a half-sister to Vertex (12f winner) and to a winning hurdler.  Frankel is also a half-brother to

Bullet Train, winner of the Lingfield Derby Trial.  So he's bred to be a smart middle distance performer and I doubt whether

he will be aimed at the Guineas.  He showed a lot of speed today, though, so it will be fascinating to see how he gets on

next time in pattern company.  As far as the form is concerned, I think it's very unlikely that Diamond Geezah ran anywhere

near his official rating of 90, so the form is pretty meaningless.


Stake & Chips
When: 10 Sep 10 19:18

Cecil said: "It was a shame the other horse was withdrawn as we would have learnt more but he's definitely progressing.

"He's in the Racing Post Trophy and the Royal Lodge and we will just see how he is. It's unlikely we'll supplement him for

the Dewhurst."


eric_morris
When: 10 Sep 10 20:57

Doubt he'll go Guineas. Waiting for the Derby paid off for connections with Workforce.


sintonian
When: 11 Sep 10 19:34

Saamidd for the 2000 and Frankel for the Derby .. 140/1 double

joking aside .. prices are ridiculous ..

Horses going via Conditions races always leave doubts in my mind.


Graeme83
When: 16 Sep 10 16:31

Frankel is being cut to 8 as proof once again that this forum effects ante post prices. It happened with Kauto a few days

ago and it's happening again.


sintonian
When: 16 Sep 10 16:33

Graeme, you dont know why that is the reason for him being trimmed. 2+2 doesn't always equal 4.

ridiculous price btw.


Graeme83

When: 16 Sep 10 16:41

So none of you have backed him ?


eric_morris
When: 21 Sep 10 13:22

HRAC giving unusual vibes have taken him
Guineas now though still see him as predominently
Derby


eric_morris
When: 21 Sep 10 16:58

28 years here and rarely get this vibe from HRAC.
We all know backing a horse for Guinea and Derby leads to the poorhouse
long term and you are best making your choice which.
This is a rare occasion I will go for both Derby early, Guineas late. He has come on for his last run so
let's hope he is the real deal


sintonian
When: 21 Sep 10 17:06

I've not backed im no Graeme. On Saamidd for the Guineas. He has the best turn of foot i've seen from anything this season

imo and will blitz anything on Good to Firm.


johnnyrant
When: 21 Sep 10 23:21

Any high st firms offering price on Frankel doing Guineas/Derby double? Can't seem to find any quotes. You did well to snap

up those odds cryoftruth.


sintonian
When: 22 Sep 10 08:53

the double at 50/1 is a shocking price.


mythical prince
When: 22 Sep 10 14:50

looks quite generous to me

bank of frankel runs this sat, currently paying around 70 percent interest


sintonian
When: 22 Sep 10 16:45

you telling me he is actually less than 50/1 right now for the Guineas & Derby double ??

Oh

My

God


mythical prince
When: 22 Sep 10 17:07

sint, if he wins the guineas he'd be about 6-4 for the derby. and he's about 8-1 for the guineas. so 50-1 for the double

hardly looks daft


Dark Destroyer
When: 24 Sep 10 11:36

Since everybody else is expressing an opinion based on the totally inadeqaute evidence available here's mine 

This is an extremely important horse for trainer and connections. There is no way HC will rush his 3 year-old preparation

for the Guineas. Everything will be directed towards the Derby.


A_T
When: 25 Sep 10 14:44

Henry Cecil doesn't think he'll stay the Derby trip.


sintonian
When: 25 Sep 10 14:54

Plenty of dig in the ground today chaps.

No denying he is horse of immense talent.. but one mile at newmarket on Good to Firm is a different ball game.



eric_morris
When: 25 Sep 10 14:54

I told you St Nick was no Sea The Stars to be fair but if you can find any department STS impressed more let me know.



Graeme83
When: 25 Sep 10 14:56

Eric it's far too early mate. As you know there what happens at 2 then the real stuff gets going at 3. Comparisons to a

horse who had a clean sweep is extremely premature.



Dark Destroyer
When: 25 Sep 10 17:09

Cheers both.

I'm just kicking myself. I looked long and hard at the same price for the guineas and eventually convinced myself it wasnt a

realistic target. Really really stupid.


A_T
When: 25 Sep 10 18:10

Yes in that respect he reminds me of Zafonic - great bull of a horse physically superior to his peers. Like that colt he may

still be superior come next May but there must be a question of what will happen when the others start to catch up.


jair1970
When: 25 Sep 10 18:45

"I don't believe in ante-post - a lot can happen between now and then," the trainer said when asked for his reaction to the

bookmakers' short Classic quotes. "I'd question whether he'll get the Derby trip, I really would.

"He's out of a mare [Kind] who's very, very fast and the female is the dominant sex. He's got a lot of class and could

easily be a Guineas horse. His three-parts brother Bullet Train is more a mile-and-a-quarter horse, so you would question it

[the Derby distance of 1m4f]."

Rip up those ante post vouchers?
French Derby anyone?

;)


jair1970
When: 25 Sep 10 18:46

Epsom vouchers that is...



eric_morris
When: 25 Sep 10 23:34

I said around a week ago I went in Guineas also you thicko.  Got great positions Guineas and Derby am pretty sure they will

go Derby to join the all-time greats after the Guineas. This could easily be the owners best horse since Dancing Brave and

he's had some gooduns.


He has to be pulled up after a mile on soft ground ffs and yet he prefers good ground which would see him get a lot further

especially the way he cruises. He could have sat with that lot today going easy in behind as far as you like.



ilikewavingatbuses
When: 28 Sep 10 10:51

personally i think frankel, although apparently v talented is just another overhyped horse like st nick was last season!i

mean he won the rp thophy as easy as you like on the bridle as he hit the front!!

frankel looks a speed horse to me and a horse that loves cut!!im just going by my eyes of course and i may be proved wrong

in time and thats fine but i think you all should be careful before getting sucked in to this as i see the same comments

every year someone puts up  a good performance!!

nathaniel hasnt even won a race yet and he got to within half a length of him on 1st run!i think hes just beat average

horses very well so far but he will face stiffer tests soon!!he hasnt even run in a truly run race yet on good ground!you'd

go broke backing these horses for guineas and derbys!

wait until he faces a horse that isnt listed class on good ground in a truly run race and they youll find out how good he

is!!

eric_morris
Date Joined: 27 Jun 10
Add contact | Send message When: 11 Sep 10 15:10 Joined: Date Joined: 27 Jun 10 | Topic/replies: 2,791 | Blogger: eric_morris's blog
To be fair the 2 races cannot be related at all on different days other than based on your wrist-watch over a distance of your choosing. Think HRAC will do what is best for the horses future whatever happens you can be sure of that. Saamidd will win the Dewhurst based on that performance I will be having a good bet on him unless Strong Suit runs also.

eric_morris
Date Joined: 27 Jun 10 Add contact | Send message
When: 16 Sep 10 22:37 Joined: Date Joined: 27 Jun 10 | Topic/replies: 2,792 | Blogger: eric_morris's blog
I havent backed him Guineas as I think there will be good competition with much better form on display at the moment with the Godolphin horse beating other Group horses in a canter. Strong Suit has shown better speed than anything for me this season before his below par run last time out. Hannon has said he thinks he undercooked him for that and that he is back to the form before the Coventry. Like Canford in the Morny think we can forgive him one run where he was not ridden to his strengths. Already the Guineas is looking a hot race with lots of v good Group form on show. Frankels form doesnt compare at these trips. He impressed against Nathaniel but his speed was staged and he wound up the gears gradually. It wasnt the electric burst of a Guineas winner for me.

The gradual gears though are what I look for in a middle distance horse. Travel then wind it up and kick which says Derby to me.

Blocked, I can't read your usual learner plate stuff no time to waste.

Of course we are not bl0cked.

Did his nuts on Saamindd in the Dewhurst too when the ground was not in his favour. Doh.

Lol LOl Lol.

Devastating piece of analysis there A_T.

Now we look forwards to seeing Eric worm his way out of IT with a 50/1 acca of somekind.

Absolutley ROFL.

Post of the year A_T

This is a rare occasion I will go for both Derby early, Guineas late

Good bit of 4/9 about if required and covered on Strong Suit too (34/1)

Strong Suit has shown better speed than anything for me this season

Yes you were so right.

You were wrong about Dubai Prince training on also.

roobuck, check out his post about going in big on Saamidd in the Dewhurst.

Makes you wonder why he goes to all this effort of bringing up everyone elses old posts.

sint,

it does appear that happy to laugh at others when get a bet wrong, but his mistakes are all part of the big picture

yep indeed.

In truth he probably doesn't win long term. People who do tend not to bang on about it, or aftertime. Imo.

Eric claims that he went in betting shops around 25 years ago, if so its a bit worrying that a 40yo plus adult would react this way

Someone phone social services please..........

Desmond Orchard Joined: 28 Jun 04
Replies: 1427 30 Mar 11 18:02
Eric Morris on Horse Racing Ante-post/Cheltenham etc Fora, is the current incarnation of perhaps the most preposterous poster anywhere. He too is given to heroic last minute trades, directly at odds with previously strongly argued positions in order to get out in profit (often 6 figures!), despite never posting an actual bet before an event. He is utterly incapable of getting anything wrong and has, to my knowledge, never had a losing bet. Anyone who disagrees with him is a 'stalker', to whom he will attribute imaginary statements, obviously without any evidence to back them up, which he then attempts to discredit. He labours under the misapprehension that he has then 'proved you wrong' - a peculiar obsession of his that gives an indication of his overall insecurity. On the rare ocassions that he does tip up a winner (without actually admitting to having placed any actual money on the beast), he then crows from the rooftops that he is some kind of guru and all should worship at his alter, clearly oblivious to the fact that even a blind dog will pi55 up the odd lampost.
He is great fun though and we would miss him over there if his Mum ever banned him for any length of time. That said, there is no shortage of contenders for Forum Idiot waiting in the wings Cry

Stalkers dont like it up 'em when the boot is on the other foot. (NAP)

Why so Figgis?

I'd say it's unlikely he'll run in any but the Guineas..

think you are being overly negative there figgis. for a start there doesn't look like being a top class 3 year old rival to frankel in the guineas.