Finians Rainbow- when we going to see this so called flying machine?

there is still time for him to run again, early Feb or so imo, but I tend to agree, going into the Arkle with just these two 3 runners races under his belt would not be ideal.

and thats why I have laid my stake back on here.

Finian's Rainbow puts his unbeaten record over fences on the line against just two rivals in the Zenergi Novices' Chase at Newbury on Wednesday.

Nicky Henderson's eight-year-old signed off his novice hurdle campaign with a fine fifth behind Peddlers Cross at the Cheltenham Festival and made a most impressive start to his chasing career here in November.

Most bookmakers have him as their joint-favourite alongside Ghizao for the Arkle Trophy at Cheltenham in March.

Henderson's assistant Tom Symonds said: "He's just had a little break after his first run. We didn't think he stayed the trip in the Challow Hurdle last year so we've dropped him back.

"I've always thought he'd be competitive at this trip and you'd hope he'll get further as he gets older.

"For me, the plan would pretty much be the Arkle, although Nicky has plenty of other horses for it.

"I'm not saying he'll love the ground at Newbury, but hopefully he should get through it."

let the trainer do his job.not once has he said anything negative about his chances.Seems to me only know alls on here do that!!
He knows what hes doing.

still doesnt jump well enough for me.

shut up mate diffrent clas some of them leaps were better than dessie

only takes one mistake.

some of them leaps were great sure

Likely to run again before March.

goes to warwick in feb for the kingmaker won by long run last year then next stop the arkle.

really hope not **** track on desperate ground only 3 weeks away go to the pendil

love this horse but not sure if i will back at festival, newbury and kempton being speed tracks and not a great run at cheltenham im not sure would suit. wish he'd go for some bigger prizes though, is holding back the old ten to follow! :(

honestly hes fine around any tack this rubbish about him being better on a flat track people seem to forget he was ONLY  beaten 6l in the ballymore by the unbeaten and potential champion hurdler PC with the ascot gold cup winner in 2nd all of this over a trip 5f too far for him

ive seen nothing to scare FR at all he deserves to be fav

as i said i love the horse. i dont think it is a flat track specialist, just wouldnt be comfortable backing him at such a short price when not much evidence around tracks that arent flat. i hope he wins the arkle and think he could, just rather wait and see

I think Finians Rainbow deserves to be fav for the Arkle but i think this has to be one of the weakest renewals of recent years and probably wont take much winning. Ghizao is a threat but he looks a bit slow to be winning an Arkle and is probably a 2m 4f horse. I would be interested in Mikhail D if he turns up fresh as he obviously bounced lto and on his debut he is arguably the best novice in Ireland although his jumping is a concern.

This horse has a fall in him. It's often better to get it out of the way before Cheltenham.

total b o llocks they sed the same about tidal bay before the arkle what happend won by a fence.same with long run FR is a brillant jumper

light framed horses doesnt even look like a chaser to me definitely not a cheltenham horse and they obviously didnt think he was that quick last year or they wouldnt have stepped him up to 2m4f so quickly.

might back him at aintree if he goes there.

probably only have to beat 2 or 3 in the kingmaker as well so wont gain too much from that. think nicholls did the right thing with ghizao getting him in 3 hot contests before christmas looked a different horse over fencese and since the wind op.

agree there doesnt seem to be too much behind the front two to worry about

According to an interview with David Johnson on the Skye Sports website,
"...When Ruby (Walsh) rode him (GHIZAO) over hurdles he said he could be the next Well Chief and that was over hurdles, so it may well be his words will come true. I don't think he'll ever be a Well Chief but maybe he'll go to the Arkle with a big chance. He's favourite, he jumps for fun and stays so with a bit of luck, he'll run a big race. Ghizao was last seen winning in bleak conditions at Newbury over the Christmas period and Johnson expects him to step up on that form again. He missed a week or so of work (before Newbury) so he wasn't spot on, that's for sure," he told At The Races.

"I think given that, it was a pretty creditable performance and we were giving weight to the others. He will come on for that race and hopefully we'll see the best of him in March."

So Ruby thinks he could be the next Well Chief, and some people on here think he's slow - even tho' he was 2.40 secs quicker than Gauvain and Forpady over the 2nd-half of his race at Cheltenham (his 2nd chase).

We haven't even seen Finians Rainbow fully fit yet. I think this horse is some machine over fences. He flys over them. OK today he made one mistake but it's only his second start. I think it's out of him and Ghizao and possibly Mikael D'haguenet if he turns up.

Flat Out is the Mullins hope, he looks the business also the raw potential in his last run will be very interesting the Irish Arkle. Can see him joining Ghizao, Captain Chris and Finians Rainbow in the van for the race provided he jumps well enough next time out.

Mikael D'Haguenet needs more time at his fences in a race to gain confidence, it paid off for Long Runs connections with his numerous jumping mistakes going for the longer RSA over the Arkle where the high speed jumping may have wrecked his confidence and his future King George chances. The RSA he didnt jump too well but in the Arkle he'd have been on the floor imo.

THERE SEEMS TO BE A CHAP ON HERE WHO THINKS FINIANS RAINBOW IS A LIGHT FRAMED HORSE WHO DOESN'T LOOK A CHASER.


All I can say is

totally agree flying bolt laughable comment

I must admit he looks an absolute natural over fences my only worry would be when Barry tried to get a long one out of him mid race he took of way to early. He did brilliant to survive but if he tries that at Cheltenham he will do well not to end up on the deck.

alvarado and flyingbolt just buying into the henderson hype machine[;)]

not sure he doesnt look a chaser but definitely isnt the most imposing you well ever see so kind of know what u mean happysnap.

and if you compare him to Ghizao he does look light framed

I thought he looked everybit a chaser,tbh.

what are you on get on FR is a tank and hed dwarf ghizao who is a  flat bred horse and how in the hell is he a hype horse he has beaten a subsequent grade 2 winner by a fence hows that hype ?

people who have backed ghizao should concentrate and think about how the hell are we gonna beat this beast who has already beaten us by 50l and jumps better than us too

course he does,just have to look at his jumping,natural.
Thing is with 2m chasers,they CAN be vulnerable to a fall,thats the nature of the job at this distance,even the greats.That stands for all that line up in March.

dont worry about that hurdles form thats irrelevant hes a different horse since the op.

definitely doesnt dwarf ghizao and is certainly not a tank.

Ghizao hasnt touched a twig in 3 starts over fences FR has nearly come down on both of his starts when hes had his own why out in front? how can u possible say he jumps better?

cant really be arsed with this arguement anymore anyway lets just wait and see what happens in march.

A final thought Ghizao beats master minded at home. one is 2/1 for the Queen Mother the other 5/1 for the Arkle. you do the math

brampour was beating everything put together at home looked what happend to him you do the math

you obviously know **** all about racing if u dont think FR is an imposing beast

sorry alvarado didnt realise we arent allowed to disagree with you.

must know **** all about racing if i dont agree with you is what your saying

nearly come down??

You must have been watching a different horse.

Rock Noir

Suggest all you experts look at take account of this horse when looking at potential dangers to FR. Cost JP an absolute packet and now going in the right direction. Be warned!

yeh rock noir is very interesting imo

Geton - I believe that Ghizao does beat Master Minded at home however i would say that this tells us more about the chances of Master Minded in the QM than it does about Ghizao chances of winning the Arkle. There is no doubt in my mind that Master Minded has lost a lot of speed and is essentially a 2m 4f horse now and has little chance of beating Big Zeb if that horse stands up in QM so Ghizao should be showing up well against him if he is to be the next star 2m for Nicholls.

Rock Noir is interesting but i think soft ground is a must and i doubt he will get that at Cheltenham in March.

yeh agree with ground but then i can think of a lot of horses i really rate and personally cant write them all off due to preferring soft ground. my actual fancy for arkle is captain chris as think if runs and gets decent ground will be alot shorter than price now, but who knows

Cant have Captain Chris as he needs to go Right Handed. He threw away that race at Newbury lto by losing lengths at every fence. When he does to Right Handed we will hopefully get a tasty price maybe at somewhere like Punchestown.

fair comment i guess. i dont fancy the short prices about the 2 favs, not 100% which of the irish will run in it, so like rock noir and captain chris at decent prices, even if just to trade out for a free win bet as if entered will definitely be shorter than they are now

I have heard even from last year that Ghizao was the best horse in the yard as far as work etc. was involved and I think they were pretty dissapointed with his hurdles campaign. I still think Finians will beat him. He's not even fit yet and although hes ran aginst small fields hes demolished them. I can't wait to see him at a fast pace which ideally is what he needs.

yeh ruby compared to well chief and nicholls even had a decent bet on when it beat forpady at cheltenham this season, i just dont fancy such a short price in a race which imo is so open and so many unexposed horses

MASTERMINDED WATCHED THIS RACE LAST NIGHT MY THOUGHTS EXACTLY THE SAME FAST PACE AND GOOD GROUND FR COULD BLOW THE ARKLE FIELD WIDE APART.WITH THE NEW JEWSON CONDITIONS THERE COULD BE A SMALL FIELD AS COULD BE IN THE RSA

the going for day 1 of the festival is guaranteed to be GS. POssibly GS,S in places, due to watering.

I can never understand why people get so heated and pin their hopes so early onto novice chasers.
I'm on GHIZAO at 12's and again at 6's - but I will be watching Sunday's Irish Arkle with great interest and if something comes out of that race looking good then I will be putting money on it.
I won't be saying "blad-de-blah is useless, and I'm sticking with Ghizao (even tho' I've seen a better horse)".
Sunday's Arkle could throw-up a result that will pose supporters of Finians Rainbow, Ghizao, Rock Noir and the rest some serious questions - or it may be an indifferent result.

i agree wayward... "i dont fancy the short prices about the 2 favs, not 100% which of the irish will run in it" when i said that i meant the same thing, how can people decide who will win having not seen the majority run recently?!

Wayward, if Flat Out is an impressive winner at the weekend, that is when you will back him ?

I've not backed Flat Out and if it wins tomorrow (Sunday) then I probably still won't. Why? Because Mullins is notorious for not specifying targets at the Festival for his horses till the last moment.
Mikael D'Haguenet was in the Supreme and the Ballymore (now Neptune) till the overnight decs for the Tuesday.
Ditto for Flat Out last March.
I'd rather have all my money on at 10/1 (knowking the race he's running in) than half my money on at 20's.

this is a finians rainbow thread

not flat out

said it before and will say it again....

Nothing coming out of Ireland to worry about

We learned today that Noble Prince does not go for the Arkle, which only leaves Realt Dubh coming out of the Irish equivalent and heading for the Festival. With Medermit probably going for the 20f "Golden Miller" (he's even entered for the Ryanair), the Arkle is looking very sparce outside the front 2 in the betting. There must be scope for a horse coming out of nowhere.
Looking at the front 2 in the betting tho', I watched Finian's Rainbow again on the video today and he looked fairly accomplished jumping round Newbury. There are 2 "issues" I have with him; (1) is the lack of competition in the races he's run in, and we could have a big field of more than 12 in the Arkle; (2) is that as a hurdler, he really looked to need 20f+.
We'll know more after the PJ Moriarty on the 6th Feb, expect Mikael D'Haguenet's odds to tumble (if he wins that) from the current 20's after that race.
As such, 9/2 about Finian's Rainbow is short enough for now.

how about nadiya de la vega to challenge to top 2 in the market? a few top names have named this one as one to follow at some point this season, 5 times the price of the first two, bit of improvement and that could look decent

i just hope and pray he dosent run FR at warwick that track is a **** hole and the ground will be bottomless and he,ll have a hard race before he runs in the arkle and barry geraghty wont be on board either nor will ap and that nob head tinkler will ride him and he is awful

I  posted last saturday that noble prince was skipping the arkle - the owner Des Sharkey told me.
He also said that Barry Geraghty said after leopardstown  race that he would love to ride Noble Prince
in Arkle - how much of a machine does that make Finians Rainbow.

No way he will run at Warwick I don't think. Wouldn't be suprised to see him going straight there.

Think they could go straight there with Finian's now, his jumping was fine last time.

the clipper: that's interesting about Noble Prince as - in my eyes - he looked the best of the Irish 2-mile novice chasers.
I wouldn't want to see Finian's Rainbow run on soft/heavy before the Festival, but I do think it could do with another race involving more than 2 other opponents.

thats rubbish clipper barry loves FR its his fav horse and hes sed on numerous times on his blog that he thinks he could be as good as moscow flyer

surely he goes straight there. already said hes not running at warwick because geraghty wont be able to ride him. And im not sure there are any other decent races left so will more than likely be up against another small field at 1/10. I dont think you take the form of beating Hells Bay too literally as he cerainly isnt a 2 mile horse especially on a flat track. And with that being the case FR he has done nothing over fences to warrant the price he is now for the arkle.

As said before i dont see anything else lurking further down the list and the irish arkle form isnt that good imo.

Finians has been backed as tho defeat is out the question but if was on i would still worry about the lack of experience im not just not sure how much he will have learnt by getting his own way up front twice and not seeing another horse. And secondly and doubt anyone will agree with me on this but im not sure Cheltenham will suit him.

Ghizao on the other hand has hardly been backed at all his odds have been cut purely for what he has achieved over fences which is the way i like it.

I layed my 33/1 on FR off before his last chase start at 6/1. Thought he was a poor price then let alone now at 5/1.

why would MDH's odds tumble for the Arkle if he wins over 21f on Sunday ?? Surely for the RSA or Jewson ?

Gents is he heading to Warwick or Kempton next Saturday?

Thanks in advance.

The Arkle is shaping up to be a poor renewal this year. Finians Rainbow will go off fav if he wins the Kingmaker next weekend although Mikhail D is still a massive player imo. His jumping is a concern although he could win the Arkle easily if transferring his hurdles form to fences. As i understand Quel Esprit is Mullins RSA horse and Mikhail D will run in the Arkle as long as he shows up well in the Moriarty. My advice would be to back Mikhail D for the Arkle now as he could well go off fav if he wins easily next weekend.

BETTING SAYS MDH WONT BE GOING FOR THE ARKLE BUT SECOND GUESSING MULLINS IS A MUGS GAME.

and im pretty sure Henderson has said FR wont go for the Arkle because Barry Geraghty will be ridding else where on the same day.

so without meaning to offend where are u getting your info from farmer?

LOL

Andrew Tinkler rides him in the Kingmaker.

good decision to run him i think definitely needs more experience.

dont know why Henderson said he wasnt going to go for it a couple of weeks back. maybe hes seen sense

sorry still cant have him.

cant jump.

geton, i completely agree and I took 33/1 early season. Couldn't have him on my mind tbh.

have to look at Ghizao and I like Torphicen also.

jockey useless dont write him off yet.

Gents I thought he did superbly well today given the lack of pace in the race and the fact that he was keen to post and keen also in the early stages.

In many ways he reminds me of the great Moscow Flyer and if he brings his 'A' Game to the Festival then for me he'll win The Arkle.

He really is a beautiful looking racehorse in every way you could imagine and if he was at Ballydoyle he'd be fine prospect for the Gold Cup at Ascot

would have a good chance in the gold cup at Ascot for sure, theres no fences[;)]

Moscow Flyer did make the odd error but how people can compare to there two is beyond me. FR guesses at 50% of his fences.

Its very easy to blame the jockey but like i have said before i dont think hes jumped well on any of his starts over fences.

Going to watch the race again from yesterday but is it fair to say Kilmurry(RIP) was still in with a big shout before he went wrong?

pretty finians would have won anyway after review.

But not sure how u can say there was a lack of pace in the race they went a really decent gallop.

get on,
i think you should watch his other races again if you think he has not jumped well in any of his races.

ive watched them plenty. i think we should just agree to disagree.

I really dont think he can jump you think hes a 'natural'.

When he gets his fences right he is very quick over them i will agree with that but still think he guessed at two or three of his fences on his first two starts and that was when he was allowed his own way out in front. They held him up in the kingmaker i assume to try and teach him and for me he failed.

i'm not saying his jumping was terrible in first two starts but i saw enough under his ideal conditions to have doubts about him and think yesterday i was proved correct.

I guess his supports will cling to the fact that tinkler was on and thats why he made all the mistakes yesterday but i dont think any jock in the weighing room would have got him settled and jumping soundly.

2 races out in front he imo jumped well enough to run a big race at chelt,1 race in behind he dont.
tells me that he needs to be allowed to do what he is happiest doing,and i would think they learned something yesterday.

sure but you have to agree its tough for any horse to make all in the arkle. Even getting to the front can be hard enough let alone uncontested.

I do think Henderson has been a bit unlucky to keep ending up in these 3-4 runner races. will be interesting if the money comes again for him hes been one of the best backed horses of the festival i would say but will punters keep the faith.

Still think FR is a brilliant jumper Alvarado? The Arkle will find him out just like previous false favourite Mulligan.

Finians doesn't need to make all he just needs to be prominent.

FR Just needs to be allowed to go the pace he wants(within reason of course),if that means leading then so be it.
its quiet clear to me that the horse wont settle unless he does.

interesting he never had a problem being held up over hurdles tho

brillant performance i was almost certain hed get beat today horrible track/ground/jockey but he won well and would of beaten poor likmurry 3or 4l which is fine

Dident we have this with tidal bay 3 years ago cant jump wont win rubbish the clues in the title NOVICE chase the horse is still a novice im glad he made mistakes u learn from your mistakes he,ll get the job done for the arkle

interesting he never had a problem being held up over hurdles tho? what do you see when you watch horse racing other than those you bet on because that is one of the most stupid comments ive ever read

one of the most stupid comments you've ever read?? that a pretty big shout how long have you been reading the betfair forum for?

Normally if horses settle over hurdles they will surely do the the same over fences. Maybe tinkler was to blame but hasnt always made all so i dont think it just because of that.

Ghizao to back money has just been wiped out which doesnt look ideal.

If hes not running i no longer have any interest in this thread, the arkle or finians Rainbow anyway

I think it was obvious they used this race to se if FR would settle in behind and jump. He didnt. PLAN A  will no doubt be resorted to for the big test. Fair play to the hendo team, they are leaving nothing to chanc with this horse.

yep,its all about March,and sure he will be given every chance,now they know exactly how to get the best out of him.Then its all about whether this horse is as good as i think he is

Amazing how many people were ready write off Finian's Rainbow because he never put up the breathtaking performance they expected.

When good horses are 100% spot on you can expect a high class performance but if they are sent racing short of a gallop the chances are you'll get a performance like the one we just witnessed.

Considering he's trained by Nicky Henderson who has been doing the same thing for years with his Cheltenham horses I am surprised anyone can take that race seriously.

No different than Binocular's somewhat lackluster performance but you can expect a different Binocular come March as you can a different Finian's Rainbow.

Ghizao I like. He is a different type than those PN has been sending recently and he will prove a real thorn in Medermit's side.

Medermit doesn't have a terribly high cruising speed although he does find for pressure, but the last thing he wants is Ghizao who, is a brilliant jumper, setting a hell for leather pace on the second half of the race or maybe even before that.

Finian's Rainbow's got such a high cruising speed it won't bother him one bit, but Medermit will find it way too hot and shouldn't even be going for the Arkle IMO

I think class will prevail and Finian's will come out on top if he jumps a good clear round but Ghizao is one very good horse.

but race fitness hasnt got anything to do with his jumping Ron has it? or maybe you could argue it has towards the end of the race after fatigue kicks in but all his mistakes last time came in the first mile.

I'm not writing him off because he isnt quick enough or doesnt have the engine to win an arkle im writing him off because i dont think he jumps well enough.

And to be honest im not completely writing him off anyway just think hes far too short.

The thing that most bothers me about this horse is his lack of big field experience in a chase. The thought of him hurtling towards the first 2 fences with 10 or 12 horses around him frightens me to death. Its not his fault as he keeps frightening off the opposition and he did cope in big field hurdle races so may be fine. If he can safely negotiate the first few then I think he will win but I suspect it will be a 'hold your breath' and 'close your eyes' race for some of us who have backed him!

tidal bay 2008 arkle everybody was saying the same about him trust with barry back on board on better ground and when hes trained to the minute and ridden positvely again he,ll take some pegging back i thought he was clever on saturday he was getting in close to many of them and was fiddling his way over them i thought he handled them well and when this horse meets one right hes breathtaking

Interesting to hear Mick Fitz the other day saying he was talking to A. Maguire who said before the race that the horse needs to be bowling along at his own pace to get into a rythm over fences. He just wants to go his own pace and when he does he's electric. He just didn't like the ride he was given the other day. I wouldn't be concerned about his jumping tbh. He's never looked like falling and Barry will ride the horse how it suits him best. The Kingmaker was a trial. The only concern is that he's never been over fences in a big field because everyone is scared of him. I wouldn't let it worry you too much though as he will be in front on his own as usual for all of the Arkle anyway. [;)]

Exactly right imo,been saying the same thing myself.Its more than obvious to me that he needs to be allowed to go the pace he is comfortable with,and if WE know that MM,then i am bl00dy sure his connections do!!

I forget who mentioned it but was a great point that the horse didnt need to be on front over hurdles so why now? Some people just have blind faith. It would also concern me that he didnt seem to handle coming down the hill at cheltenham. We'll see though

2 races over fences from the front he jumped ok,one race held up he did not.Take from that what you want,it could be he suddenly cannot jump well,or it could what i believe that he prefers to be allowed to go a pace he wants and feels comfortable with over fences.
Not blind faith for me,just what i honestly believe.
As you say,we will see.

I think horses are like you and I Geton how you perform in your job very much depends on how you feel on the day. If Nicky has let him down a bit and I'm sure he will have he wouldn't exactly be 100%in the pink so it would affect his overall performance not just the end result. Could be even more reason why he made a couple of minor errors early doors or it could be he doesn't like being among horses.

For me he looks as good a novice as I've seen in a very long time and that race didn't mean didly sqaut.

tbh Ghizao terrifies me he jumps like he has been doing it all his life. One of the leaps he put in at Cheltenham would have made Arkle proud he must have cleared the fence by a foot. He will really test Finians Rainbow but to answer the thread starters question "when we going to see this so called flying machine?" I'd say it's a safe bet not until about 2.05pm on the 15th of March[;)]

i did question why he didnt need to make all in his hurdles races.....

DEC thought it was the most stupid comment hes ever read...not just on the form but period.

which i thought was a bit harsh even if he didnt agree.

Agree with pretty much everything you have said Rondetto. I think either Finians Rainbow or Ghizao will win the Arkle barring accidents. Medermit is a massive lay for me at the prices as he wont be able to go the pace in the Arkle and had a very hard race last week.

GET ON just for u i will explain horses that jump a fence maybe enjoy it more than going over hurdles or maybe a year older and more developed and see their races out better or maybe there bred for chasing or maybe the trainer finds something different and if i go on all night there will be a lot more maybe's so back to the first point he enjoy's it and attacks his fences and wants to go a fast pace and maybe theres a lot more reasons well maybe there is

yep maybe one or all of those are the case.

i was just posing the question and i dont see how it was that silly.


or maybe you shouldn't make such bold statements and maybe u dont know as much about racing as u think

maybe,
only 5 letters,but a mighty big word when it comes to trying to work out races at the festival!!