Horse Antepost
There is currently 1 person viewing this thread.
These 122 comments are related to the topic:
Frankel to get stuffed in the Guineas (Official Layers Thread)
Frankel to get stuffed in the Guineas (Official Layers Thread)
sort by:
Show
per page
Replies: 122
|
By:
:journalists:
|
|
By:
Was happy to lay SNA for 2000 last year as hedidnt have the milers pedigree. Wont be laying Frankel as he has shown astonishing turn of foot for a Galileo colt.
Expect it to win ****as but it wont be a STS. Nothing ever will. |
|
By:
interesting Figgis that you have rated as good as Makfi's Guineas already, hadn't got Frankel quite that good yet.
Yes he could regress, seen plenty of 2yo champions do that. Was very disappointed we never saw anything of St Nicholas Abbey, especially being by Montjeu, so Frankel being by Galileo no guarantee that will train on either. But the Dewhurst still the premier 2yo chmpshp race in UK and history littered with those who did train on at 3 to at least the Guineas. In the last 40 years New Approach, Sir Percy, Shamardal, Rock of Gibraltar, Pennekamp,Zafonic, Dr Devious, Ajdal, El Gran Señor, The Minstrel, Wollow , Grundy , Mill Reef, Nijinsky II Stats wise, Frankel even money to make it. Guess that doesn't make him value if betting for the Guineas now. |
|
By:
I'm convinced Frankel is just like Zafonic - a 2 year old whose development is well ahead of his peers - and who will maintain that superiority through to next May but no further.
|
|
By:
Pedrobob, the thing about many of those horses you mention is they were all up to scratch as top 2yos but they hadn't run overly fast. I can't say about the likes of Nijinsky and Mill Reef because they're a bit too long ago for me to compare but even Zafonic's Dewhurst wasn't exceptionally fast, if you compare it to the Rockfel on the same card.
|
|
By:
Despite the title of this thread, it is very hard to find any real hope for layers.
|
|
By:
Do Godolphin still want to win the Kentucky Derby?
Has K. Abdullah ever sold a horse to Godolphin? |
|
By:
this isn't just the frankel to get stuffed in the guineas thread.
this is the OFFICIAL thread  |
|
By:
Yesterday Frankel beat a maiden winner by 2 1/4 lengths. The third home is still a maiden.
Frankel's four races. Dwelt Tracked leader (3 horse race) Took keen hold, held up in last Hampered soon after start, took keen hold, held up in last pair In the 2000 Guineas he will need to avoid getting slowly away, being hampered, taking a keen hold, and being held up in last (might result in traffic problems). He needs to be educated to get away well and hold a position. The opposition will not be as weak next time. |
|
By:
Guineas'fields can often be weak. Frequently some very ordinary horses finish within 3 or 4 lengths of the winner.
|
|
By:
So now the Dewhurst was a weak field, PRICELESS.
|
|
By:
lol, can't get away from market principles underperforming, hence 1-2-3-4 of 4/6, 25/1, 33/1, 50/1 - alarm bells of caution should be ringing on that - but equally can't get away from the horse's manner of victory, crowded start, pulling, loose ground, speed figures, etc.
|
|
By:
We must face up to the truth. Beforehand that looked the best Dewhurst for generations and it was run in a very fast time, relative to other races on the day. I can't find any solace in the fact that the 2 main dangers "underperformed", because these were going to be Frankel's main rivals in the Guineas.
I was confident that St Nick wouldn't stay a true run mile, and I was proved right. I knew that Dunguib was overrated, and he got beat at Cheltenham. But this is different, I can't see any flaws in Frankel. I had already laid him for the Guineas before yesterday's race, and now there is nothing I can do about it. The best thing to do is to concentrate on the jumps for the next 6 months and see what happens. |
|
By:
Dream Ahead and Saamidd definately did not run to their form.
The 'wrong' horses filled the minor places behind Frankel, so the form can't be rated through the roof, though I am not denying the performance and potential superstar status. |
|
By:
.Marksman. Joined: 13 Jul 10
Replies: 198 17 Oct 10 21:49 I was confident that St Nick wouldn't stay a true run mile, and I was proved right. Are you on crack-cocaine by any chance ? I'm pissed and even i spotted what you're after saying. |
|
By:
 |
|
By:
f u ckin g hell................marksman. just the st u pidest statment ever.......... i'm going to bed happy now, he makes me feel real good about myself, je s u s.
|
|
By:
really.............. f u c k i n ba d
|
|
By:
wondersobright Joined: 13 Jun 06
Replies: 451 17 Oct 10 23:18 Dream Ahead and Saamidd definately did not run to their form. The 'wrong' horses filled the minor places behind Frankel, so the form can't be rated through the roof, though I am not denying the performance and potential superstar status. It depends what you deem to be their form, Saamidd's reputation was more hype than substance and his best speed figure from me was only 3 lengths per mile ahead of his Dewhurst run, similarly Dream Ahead was only 3 lengths behind his Middle Park figure (ran in a time slower than Hooray ½ an hore earlier). The only standout performance ahead or behind his previous best was Aiden O'Briens Roderic O'Connor who could yet turn out to be a high class performer so to say the form is unreliable because the wrong horses filled the places is very short-sighted |
|
By:
I must be explain myself to people who, last night, were I either p1ssed or up past their bedtime. Each of St Nic's wins as a 2yo came in very slow run mile races. In each of these he showed a tremendous turn of foot to out sprint his rivals in the 2nd half of these races. All his speed figures in these races were poor. Aidan talked him up as a potential Guineas and Derby winner, but I believe this was just talk as I don't think he was really regarded as a Derby horse. It was important that his reputation was inflated by connections, to enhance his stud value. If you watch the replay of the 2000 Guineas with an open mind: Just pretend that you know nothing about the horse. In this race, he appears to be well placed, and travelling well, then doesn't find much near the finish. A horse who needed further would have been out paced, and been nearest at the finish.
I was unable to make these points at the time, because I was banned from the forum. And it was only when I (wrongly) thought that a opening a new account would benefit me, that I could get back on the forum. |
|
By:
St Nic's speed figure in the RPT was excellent, if you factor in that the straight was getting slower, which it obviously was.
|
|
By:
If you take 5/4 Frankel right now you are simply stupid.
|
|
By:
.Marksman. 18 Oct 10 10:04
I must be explain myself to people who, last night, were I either p1ssed or up past their bedtime. Each of St Nic's wins as a 2yo came in very slow run mile races. In each of these he showed a tremendous turn of foot to out sprint his rivals in the 2nd half of these races. All his speed figures in these races were poor...... Speed fig I had for St Nic's Curragh 2yo debut at the Curragh suggested he was already up to Group 1 class with normal improvement. And his Racing Post speed fig was on a par with any 2yo in Europe maybe bar Canford Cliffs in the Coventry |
|
By:
.
|
|
By:
What did it beat last run? LAY LAY LAY
|
|
By:
metro john Joined: 02 Jan 07
Replies: 1612 19 Oct 10 12:11 What did it beat last run? LAY LAY LAY ermmmm? ... on the clock? ... every other horse that ran at Newmarket in 5 group races and a heritage handicap on Champions Day ... that's all! |
|
By:
anyone recall how many other Dewhursts where run quicker than the challenge.
I think Shamardal from memory. |
|
By:
I JOINED THIS FORUM YESTERDAY TO HOPEFULLY CHAT TO A FEW PEOPLE WHO UNDERSTAND RACING WITH THE EXCEPTION OF A HANDFULL OF PEOPLE PFTRADER INC IT APPEARS TO ME THAT TO MANY ON HERE LIKE TO LAY HORSES AND SIMPLY SLAG OFF OTHERS KNOWLEDGE HOW ON EARTH PEOPLE COULD CRITICISE FRANKEL PRIOR TOO OR AFTER DEWHURST IS BEYOND ME.WEVE READ STATS NOW ABOUT FRANKEL WHOM I THINK IS V SPECIAL AND WILL WIN GUINEAS AND CAN UNDERSTAND SOME FOLKS RESERVATIONS OF BACKING ANTEPOST DUE TO 6 MONTH LAYOFF BUT YOU CANNOT LAY A HORSE LIKE THIS ON PERFORMANCE THE FACTS SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES,,AND THE PROBLEM WITH DREAM AHEAD PRIOR TO DEWHURST WAS THAT HE BT STRONGSUIT WHO DIDNT TURN UP FOR A RACE AND TINHAT !!!!
|
|
By:
geoff m Joined: 23 Feb 03
Replies: 1410 19 Oct 10 14:48 anyone recall how many other Dewhursts where run quicker than the challenge. This century, this has happened in 2009 (Beethoven), 2007 (New Approach), 2006 (Teofilo) and 2004 (Shamardal) |
|
By:
looks like the frankel form wasn't so bad after all
|
|
By:
my major concern would be that he's simply a very good 2yo,
and the advantage will diminish over winter. bred to be a stayer but not in my eye. |
|
By:
yep, one of the 'trees' he beat by 10l at Ascot now a G3 winner.
|
|
By:
:lammer had won a Gr 2 in France b4 today according to C4
|
|
By:
The winner of that was disqualified though for interfering with the 3rd so it was by default really.
|
|
By:
jay..b# Joined: 25 Dec 07
Replies: 364 12 Oct 10 19:05 I notice mythical prince has not posted his bet Shocking that anyone can get off over Frankel winning a mickey mouse race last time out beating a 103 rated, exposed rag. was that the same rag that won the horris hill today  |
|
By:
At Doncaster Frankel beat Rainbow springs by 13l, that horse subsequently was 3rd in the Group 1 Prix Marcel Boussac on Arc day, at Ascot Frankel beat Klammer by 10l who subsequently won the Group 3 Horris Hill.
Those are the only 2 subsequent performances of Frankels last 3 races beaten horses, anyone who doubts his form needs their head seen to. |
|
By:
Klammer put up a career best speed fig by some way yesterday, big compliment to Frankel
|
|
By:
I rated Klammer 84 on my scale for that win which is consistant with Dux Scholars ratings this year as I have his best 3 runs at 81,83 and 84. Klammer hit the line 2.3 seconds faster than the impressive Zoowra later over c/d (though figgis would probably say it pi$$ed down in between)
Frankel ran an 89 from me in the Dewhurst but the Ascot race was slowly run and having circled the field and had the race won very early I wonder how much actual effort the other jockeys put in as on this subsequent run's form, Klammer should've finished a bit closer |
|
By:
...then again after the slow early pace, his finishing time would've been dictated by sprinting speed and speed stamina which only demonstrates Frankel's superiority in that respect.
|
|
By:
Klammer may have run his best race yet in the horris Hill, but the fact is that he paid a huge complement to Frankel.
I am more an more of the view that Frankel is amazing. He was quite disappointing in the Dewhurst. had he not been barged into at the start and become far too free and "buzzzed up", I strongly suspect he would have done another 10 length demolition. |