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Jan Vermeer's targets please?
Jan Vermeer's targets please?
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Replies: 98
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will be a travesty if they do not let him go... Epsom should be for the best horses
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Aidan O'Brien's Jan Vermeer (6-4 favourite) put himself right in the Investec Derby picture with an authoritative display in the Airlie Stud Gallinule Stakes.
Carrying a 7lb penalty for his victory in the Criterium International in November, Johnny Murtagh was content to settle his mount in mid-division behind the pace-setting Bobbyscot. Murtagh merely had to shake the reins at the son of Montjeu and the response was immediate as he cruised past Bobbyscot, who did well to hold off several challengers for the runner-up spot. Paddy Power cut the winner to 7-1 co-second favourite from 12s for the premier Classic, alongside stablemates Cape Blanco and Midas Touch. O'Brien has the first four in the betting as St Nicholas Abbey is their 2-1 market leader. O'Brien said: "He came here a couple of weeks ago for a canter and Johnny felt he'd be ready for a race in a couple of weeks and that is the way it was. "He was very impressive and he has always had loads of class. There will be a good bit to come and the race will bring him on a lot. "Johnny was very impressed and we'll now have to decide whether he goes to Epsom or to the French Derby. "He's not short of speed and won his Group One last year with a lot of ease. "We have Cape Blanco, St Nicholas Abbey, Midas Touch and this one and in an ideal world we'd like to divide them between Epsom and France. "Hopefully we'll have made a decision by a week on Monday but Viscount Nelson is definitely in the mix for the French Derby after his run in the Guineas." |
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Sh1t !! 29's last week and was severely tempted and didn't. damn the it's a definate,possibly,maybe certain to line up in the derby,completely fooooooked off
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We have Cape Blanco, St Nicholas Abbey, Midas Touch and this one and in an ideal world we'd like to divide them between Epsom and France. backs up the poster who said SNA and MT for Epsom and CB and JV for France.
I still think Jan vermeer's off to France.. Meath the only horse they've run at Epsom after the Gallinule? |
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I think SNA and Midas Touch will go to the derby, Cape B to the French and Jan Vermeer to the Irish.
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Michael Tabor will want to win the Epsom Derby not some imitation.
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why would they want to send cape blanco to the french when thats there only hope of winning at epsom
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If Jan Vermeer misses Epsom that is confirmation that Balldoyle don't think they have anything that can beat SNA.
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Ballydoyle know very little IMVHO. Consistently get it wrong, especially in Derby as to what is their best chance.
JAN VERMEER = DERBY WINNER. Just hope its Epsom and not a poor imitation. |
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I often wonder if they deliberately put stable jock on the wrong horse to misdirect.
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Il be surprised if JV wins the Derby on second thoughts,would like to see CB win personally having backed him at 25/1,o'Brien knows where he stands having won the Dante so if he doesnt send CB to Epsom then in all probabilty he fears nothing from York,the stat with Meath finishing last in the Derby having won the same race JV did yesterday is a worry and the 2 week gap still,wouldnt be confident backing SNA at the prices but Midas Touch could turn out to be winner in the end after the run at Leopardstown and the strong links the Derrinstown has to subsequent Derby winners,JV will probably go to the Irish Derby as one or two have suggested,CB to France(b o llox!) and the Abbey and MT to Epsom......
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Jan Vermeer has twice beaten Midas Touch and was impressive. Genuinely no decision made re running plans yet. He was bound for the French Derby but Murtagh really impressed and they're all having seconnd thoughts. Kevbetting superstar thinks Ballydoyle know very little. Well, they have the first four in the betting for the Derby so they must be doing something right. Bet Frankie wouldn't mind riding for them.
Fame And Fortune will be like Duke Of Marmalde, an awesome four year old. Coronation Cup, Irish Champion and the Arc looks the likely route. |
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Thats not what I said.
Who is Fame & Fortune? |
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He's talking about ****
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Frankie rode a classic winner for them before....
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epsom . a definite possible
chantilly. a definite possible |
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I was just thinking the Irish derby because they usually give horses a 4 week break before running them before a classic. On the other hand he doesn't appear to be as hard to train as other horses, so might be ready by 5th/6th anyway.
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Well, they have the first four in the betting for the Derby so they must be doing something right.
With the money they spend they should have the first 6 in the betting. And when it comes to "tipping", they evidently know very little. |
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It would appear I can't abreviate Fame and Glory
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With the money they spend they should have the first 6 in the betting. And when it comes to "tipping", they evidently know very little.
Don't kid yourself,they know,who is a big backer?why should they tell anyone anything?Thats up to the experts,or is it? some still wear rose tinted glasses,as last Sat'shows. |
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Their track record in deciding Derby is pretty poor
Last year RVW & Oratario not that long ago |
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fallon picked gypsy king not oratorio.
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To Charlton 2005 - If spending money is the key, how many do Godolphin have at the head of the Derby betting? Still, they won the German Guineas, I suppose.
Aidan O'Brien was Champion Jumps Trainer in Ireland in his first four years holding a license, no big money behind him starting off then. Anyway, lets not argue, we all love the game. Fame And Glory is the real deal now, and he handles every kind of ground. A Derby winner and runner up last year, yet in his trainer's opinion is only now really coming to the boil. They brought the jug to the well too often with Duke Of Marmalade, hope they are more selective this time. Shouldn't he be 6/4 for the Arc or am I missing something obvious? |
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JV would surely be better suited to 12f than 10f? Hardly had more than a strenuous canter so the 4 week rule doesn't apply. Has he more proven credentials than SNA? Yes. Send him to Epsom AND The Curragh
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I think you are missing something Ballhopper...a few screws ! how should he be 6/4 for the Arc when we're at the end of May. I don't know where to start with that one !!
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Shouldn't he be 6/4 for the Arc or am I missing something obvious?
the fact that he looked woefully one paced for a speedy track like longchamp in last years arc or his dire performance in the subsequent champion stakes might have something to do with it [smiley:crazy] |
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F&G has won 2 poor races easily. Wait until he starts meeting the 3 y olds then we will see how good he is. I think they should win everything they can before July because then the game will be well and truly up.
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Okay, 6/4 way over the top. No question about last year's form tapering off badly Mythical Prince, and you could be right about three year olds brigust1 - though I suspect it will take a good one to beat him - the point I'm trying to make, badly perhaps, is that connections actually think he's a lot better this year than last.
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I think they are hopeful and so far it looks like he's going the right way,its fine winning a couple of races early on including a soft GR1,he will have to up it this summer if he is still going to look serious.
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Fair enough Prima Donna, you could well be right. But I've being going racing a long time and - whatever about being better this year than last - the staggering improvement he's shown between his races this season is something rare.
His next port of call is the Prince Of Wales and it will take something special to hold him there. I see Starspangledbanner in all the betting lists for the Kings Stand but the Golden Jubilee the much more likely target. |
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I don't think he's shown any improvement between his last two races has he? Recharge beaten another two lengths but the extra half furlong would easily account for that. Using Hallicarnassus as a line he's beat nothing worthy of a proper Group 1.
On the Arc he has the big stat to overcome of no horse ever having come back to win the Arc after running down the field in the previous year. |
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F&G is too one dimensional in his racing style. Won't suit a typical arc
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what three year olds do you think are that good though Brigust1 ?
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Look at the top 6 of the Derby market, reckon there is one in there that will be better than him, no idea which one though! Planteur and Sarafina from France could be anything. Some very good 3 year olds this year, will be tough for the older horses imo towards the end of the season.
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Never really been a fan of F & G tbh, thought he was flattered in the Derby and then just fell apart after STS kept crushing him. Think he is seriously inferior to Rip Van Winkle as well.
He does seem to run well at the beginning of the season though and not sure which 3 year old would be battle hardened against him, but he may have fallen to pieces by then anyway. |
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yeah its hard to believe that for all his faults his level of performance on sunday doesnt put him a long way in front of all the three year old colts, certainly at this stage
however i agree with the one dimensional thing, basically the horse has one long withering run, but if conditions dont suit that, then he aint gonna win |
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F&G is a borderline Gp1 performer at best. Surprised hes been kept in training.
Wont win a seriously contested Gp 1 ever. |
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"YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS"
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Fecking only 1 1/2l 2nd in english derby to a wonder horse.....then finished close up to it again........and again.......
You CANNOT be serious.........SURELY  |
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"Never really been a fan of F & G tbh, thought he was flattered in the Derby and then just fell apart after STS kept crushing him."
STS crushed everything.........yet here is F & G back after taking his 3yo beatings, handing them out.Get real, will take another superstar to beat him in the proper races, and I've not seen one.......yet......... |