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Southwell is the best track to back on bar none. There are not enough meetings unfortunately - Lingfield and Wolver' allowed too much racing, Epidemics of trouble in running which aids**racing.
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Southwell would be forced to switch to polytrack if the BHA had any interest whatsoever in esuring racing took place on a semi-level playing field.
I know some shrewdies use this different surface to their advantage, but for the good of the long term future of the game there really ought to be unifomity amongst the a/w surfaces.... Because if you think trouble in running is a get out of jail card for the serial miscreants, what about the old "didn't handle the fibresand/polytrack guv, he's better on the fibresand/polytrack"? |
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empty 10 Oct 12:12
"He said that 36 of the 42 meetings since the opening of the relaid Flemington track in September 2007 had been a Dead 4 on race morning." So the statiscal evidence does not suggest hard ground as Moyglare Stud is stating. Empty, I'll be very quick with the point regarding what my issue with believing the Australian track guides is. The meetings are rated on the scale of a Fast 1 to a Heavy 10 - that is acknowledged, but there is a separate penetrometer reading which does not always correspond to the actual going description. For example, the Dead 4 rating on the morning of last year's Melbourne Cup was actually proven on the penetrometer to be quicker than yesterdays Good 3 at Caulfield. You can not believe the Dead 4 guide as to whether it's quick or even hard ground or not. They will rate a track a Good 3 at "worst" even if there were a drought for 6 months. |
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I cannot agree with you on this point at all, jonjo.
There are some horses, admittedly, often the slower ones that can only act on fibresand. The surface is totally fair, rarely if ever do you see the farcical paceless races often witnessed on polytrack. There are no downsides to fibresand imo and it is without doubt the best of the aw surfaces. |
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Muqbil, it would nae bother me if Kempers, Lingers & Wolvers all went fibre-optic........I just think it's utterly barmy to have different a/w surfaces. Pick one & stick with it.....
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Nothing wrong with Fib
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Nothing wrong with Fibresand i was going to say as surely the British racing way of thinking has always variety is the spice of life
If we want one surface Jonjo, then cant we also insist Kempton run the other way round and also leafy takes out their annoying false straight. Uniformity could know no ends. So id stick with southwell and even have a surface somewhere inbween the 2 like Wolves used to be. |
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Interesting comment Jose
It sounds like dodgy going descriptions are a worldwide problem and other racing organisations may find the objective measurement of the Going Stick a useful tool to use. |
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Newmarket's clerk of the course, Michael Prosser, said on Sunday that after 19.5 mm of rain last week the ground was officially good. However, with no rain forecast before Saturday, he has not ruled out watering.
Wonder if the use of the hosepipe by Prosser had an influence on Sir Mikes decision to go Stateside |
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After that fiasco on cambridgeshire day I have no illusions where prosser should be shoving his godforsaken hosepipe !!!!
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It's been a wonderful year JC :)
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one of the biggest days racing of the year was completely ruined for punters and racegoers by the uneven bias at newmarket on cambridgeshire day and yet it was allowed to slip by unmentioned by anyone in the racing media.
champions day can now slip by unmentioned as far as I'm concerned. no more bets at newmarket. |
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SALISBURY - Flat (Updated:12/10/2009 at 11:22)
Going SOFT, GOOD TO SOFT IN PLACES (GoingStick: 7.8 on Sunday at 12:00) Weather SUBSEQUENT TO A VERY HEAVY DEW ON MONDAY MORNING AND WITH THE GRASS STILL WET THE GOING HAS BEEN UPDATED. But we'll not bother with objective measure despite it being part of the rules of racing What do the BHA do about this from the racecourses - Zip,, nothing at all |
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i like how the ground has dried out at Windsor and going stick is now 7.8 from 7.1
However the going has no changed from g/s to g/s (S) in places |
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As stated before Koo, the going stick has superceded the antique methodolgies
Take say one of your horses PP histories which may read something like GS 7.0 - rating 65 GS 7.8 - rating 70 GS 6.5 - rating 64 GS 7.6 - rating 72 You can quickly work out that running your horse on 7.6 + is probably the best option for him/her and your bank balance. |
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so the drier it gets at windsor the softer it gets.
do they even bother looking at what they're telling us anymore. |
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They cetainly don't seem to take any notice of the objective measurement is telling them Outpost.
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I'm not convinced half of this lot are TAKING any readings now...
There's no bugger overseeing this shambles & nobody pulling them up about it when they dont update/post readings or take their watering policy to ridiculous levels as we've seen at Newmarket & Ascot recently....... The sooner this debate gets cracking in public & we can tare into these worthless yaks the better now. I've absolutely had it when people like Prosser can actually be considering sloshing water on a track at this time of year with the heavy dews & rain forecast is just beyond parody |
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If these people can not be trusted to supply basic information like GS readings then all is lost i reckon.
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jonjo 12 Oct 16:11
...... The sooner this debate gets cracking in public & we can tare into these worthless yaks the better now. It would take a silver tongued clerk who could effectively trade blows with you m8 :) It would be like some of those aweful maulings witnessed at PMQ! |
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Somebody should be putting the pressure on Prosser this week, it's scandalous to be considering "irrigating to maintain a beautiful surface" it should be very much on the fast side if the forecast is correct not good and Sariska shouldn't be running if Bell does as he says.
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THE Turftrax Going Stick, a prototype measuring device that scientifically records a combination of penetration and shear, and also logs data electronically for analysis, may see the days of the trusted walking stick as a devise to measure
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THE GOING at Newmarket remains good and, with little rain forecast, clerk of the course Michael Prosser is prepared to water if conditions threatento dry out too much. :0
The Rowley Mile saw 19.5mm of rain last week but only a small amount is predicted to fall in the build-up to Champions Day. "It is going to be mainly dry now until atleast the end of the weekend," said Prosser. "At this stage only light precipitation is forecast on Tuesday evening into Wednesday and even then you are talking 0.5mm to 1mm tops. We have good ground. "The drying out process will be slower at this time of the year than at the heart of the summer. We will monitor the situation and if it needs irrigating to maintain a beautiful surface then that is what we will do." This man should duet with sky high robbie williams imo. He is insane !! |
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Out of Interest has anyone of journalistic credibility questioned his ridiculous watering policy on the eve of the cambrideshire ????
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irrigating to maintain a beautiful surface
Surely he only has to produce a safe surface under his remit, not a good looking one. There's no need to water this time of year with dews and less evaporation. |
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if it needs irrigating to maintain a beautiful surface then that is what we will do."
Sound like these COC think it's a Gardener's World Competition. |
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Majority of Punters, trainers, owners, jorno's have little interest, the governing body does not Govern
Result : COC, racetrack just does what it likes. |
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A few days away from one of the Premier meets in racing calender and COC does not even bother to provide GS readings for thosethat may be interested.
I don't think this a good way to run or attract people to invest in this sport. |
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CHELTENHAM - Jump (Updated:12/10/2009 at 12:54)
Going Good to Firm. (GoingStick: 9.0 on Monday at 07:00) Premier NH racetrack has a meet that takes place on same day and shows a totally different attitude by looks of it. |
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Prossers statement was below big bold headline
"Bell keeps watch on ground at Newmarket for Sariska" "Bell is mad keen to run the filly in the group 1 race but believes she won't be seen at her best unless conditions remain good or softer for what will be her final start of the year" Trainer threatens to take out race second fav and the current fav FAG has a preference for some give in the ground. Trigger for Michael to lash it on without any fear of repercussions. |
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What he should come out and say is..
" If your horse wants cut in the ground, go to f****** Ascot in June. :p |
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or "Go buy faster horses"
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From the Rancid Post, comments by readers obviously not allowed........
Newmarket could water for Champions Day By James Burn5.57PM 13 OCT 2009 THE going for Champions Day at Newmarket was described as good on Tuesday and director of racing Michael Prosser said he would consider watering the course if no rain fell in the build-up to Saturday. The two-day fixture, which begins on Friday, features two Group 1 races - the Jumeirah Dewhurst Stakes and Emirates Airline Champion Stakes - and the valuable Totesport.com Cesarewitch. Prosser said:[b] |
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I think we already know the answer JJ. :(
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I came on here to voice my concerns about what's going on at Newmarket in advance of this weekends meeting. However, there's nothing i can really add to what's already been said by Jonjo, Goldenfleecer etc. I used to think that Prosser was one of the better clerks (well at least with regard to the Rowley mile course as the July course has often been overwatered) but the thought of watering on ground at this time of year with a going stick reading of 7.7 is absolutely scandalous.
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jonjo 14 Oct 04:39
SH!T OR BUST TIME FOR THE GOING STICK - BHA, DO YOU BELIEVE IN THIS TOOL, OR THE ONE THREATENING TO WATER NEWMARKET? couldn't have put it any better myself JJ you just have a way with words |
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There was a hoss I thought a potentially stonking bet at 20s for this weekend at HQ, but how could you possibly bet in the knowledge that the clerk may water with the market leaders preferring cut, and after the fiasco of the bias the other week?
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Exactly John, the more water that goes on the more likely there is to be a strip of ground that it misses or doesn't cover properly (usually up one of the rails) and turns a big field race into a farce. These draw biases always seem exaggerated when water is applied. There is no way the ground is going dry out to hard or even outright firm this time of year.
Bell said: "I am very pleased with her and she looks in fantastic form. Kieren gave a nod and wink, which says it all. "The ground is damp as opposed to drying out, and for the first time there is a bit of rain around. Provided I am happy with her I am mad keen to run." Which is exactly what you'd expect to happen this time of year, really makes you wonder... The Racing Post should be questioning it themselves instead of idly writing whatever comes out his mouth. We should be able to comment on it as well. |
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The golden highway @ Cambridgeshire meeting may well have been created by overnight watering.
There was an almighty wind blowing from the far side to near side rail & could well have ended up with the far rail"missing" the overnight dowsing. |
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"It would be ideal if we received a millimetre or two"
You don't want any rain when the reading is 7.7 and to think that you do i think suggests you have taken absolutely no notice of previously recorded data. |