fao chris stickels

No he didnt vartz, he put 4mm(x2) 2mm(x2) and had 1.4 of rain and ended up with a controvertial Saturday with divots and a reversed draw bias.

thought you'd had enough vartz?

you're in a minority of one it seems

tell you something?

Ground Control to Major Vartz... Come in please your time is up..

Academic Rambler 24 Jul 11:37
"MIDDLE IS QUICKER"

APMSL


CHRIST BURN YER MONEY

I know when I'm beat!
Like I said earlier chaps, good luck with the campaign both the substance and the delivery are flawless.

cheers.

I reckon he'll water the middle tonight and winners will fly up the rails tomoz

Agree with Flyingbolt, good on the round course but good to soft on the straight.

just going back to interview...did u see how stickles was dressed? looked like he had slept in the same clothes and had just gotten up. hair all over the place. looked like a man totally stressed.

If you cant stand the heat, get out of the irrigation chamber.....

One last point Vartz the BHA directive is only guidelines there is no hard and fast rules, how can there be with the unpredictabilty of the British weather, so the clerks won't be shot at dawn [lord help us] if they produce fast ground once in awhile, all we ask is for a bit of common sense and for a clerk to show a bit of their own initiative, they are not tied to the BHA's apron strings, but hell you would think they were such is the regularity they spout out the same old guffaw when a microphone is trust in their face by a saliving lapdog "our aim is to produce good safe racing ground".
Good safe racing ground is easily achievable without having to water way in advance with the unpredictable weather, in this case it was very predictable! it was billboarded all week yet he still saw fit to water.
Nonsensical!!! no two ways about it!

stickels hasn't produced "good" ground, he's produced false ground.

vartz 24 Jul 17:33


" Zil I don't remember where I read it, but I think it's right. He put on 4mm every day during royal meeting to maintain didn't he, so seems to stack up to me?
I'm not trying to win an argument with anyone zilzal, just questioning whether there's any grounds for the abuse being heaped on an individual, that's all. "

the four letter abuse is unclled for vartz, but when people get very frustrated this can and does happen.

Katie Walsh on ATR has just walked the track and said the first 4f are good to firm and the last 3 are the slow side of good!

mr stickels please resign you incompetent cnut!

he has to go

times suggest ground is spot on. stickels told us middle is a bit quicker and that's proving spot on. Despite the heavy rain yesterday as we hit the middle part of the three day meeting the going is perfect for the big race, no advantage had on either side of the track for the handicaps
Now chaps, which of you has the backbone to apologise to the man for the ridiculous comments of yesterday?

Hello Geoff. Hows trix ?

^ wind up merchant

dont rise to it lads

Am i misreading times? Look to represent perfect ground don't they?

I suggested yesterday round course stick reading of 8.5 and a straight course reading of 9.3 which was as near spot on this morning, now seeing as hes given 9.9 as g/s in the past(see Clerkwatch) its around Good(g/f in places) they havent smashed any course records yet even given theyve just had a heritage handicap

I still maintain that he would have been better putting 4mm on the monday

:^0

:^0 vartz

no apologies from the foul mouthed abusers? None at all?
What's wrong with the ground?

:^0 vartz

He's thought it safe in the past to race on 11.7 vartz, you asked for a prediction yesterday and i gave you one

So you dont want a debate, Fifth Colomnist ??

COC-IST THREAD

REPORTED

I don't think vartz is disputing any of that Zil, he/she is however probably correct regarding the abusive comments made yesterday.

absolutely fair enough zilzal. just wondering what those who were abusing stickels, accusing him of overwatering, producing false ground, going that would be measured in fathoms etc have to say now that we're racing on what times say is good, g/f or even g/f, especially when you consider forecasts throughout the week and the very heavy rain yesterday, i'd say stickels deserves plenty of praise. we've all asked for more complete going stick readings too, he's given those both days and they look to be spot on. I know it's too much to ask for some to give praise or even admit they may have been wrong but an apology for some of the cruder and more outlandish insults might be in order from some (not from you of course zilzal).

btw vartz am laughing at ya :^0
good night

I would have stuck 4mm on with the f/c Vartz, what i do want (and i have been banging on about this for age)s, is a going stick reading taken after the last to ascertain how a track dries up
In the past he has given 9.9 as g/s and yet has a reading of as low as 9.3 on the course

that's ok nibbled, i don't mind you laughing at me funnily enough.

zil, i think that's fair enough. what we've had last 2 days though is a reading on the morning of racing. that's to be encouraged isn't it?
today's readings were taken i guess around 8 - 8.30 this morning and obviously will be faster now but that's a pretty good effort from stickels isn't it?
this is what I mean. the guy is passing on info , and all some want to do is hammer him??
I know you disagree with his watering policy itself, and like you i'd probably have preferred to wait and see re watering earlier on in the week but i don't htink that's always possible and given conditions he's done not too bad i'd say.

Stickles is a serial waterer and would be best served mounted on the top of one of those ridiculous fountains you see at a garden centre. Imo of course.

A timely reminder.

sorry chris

I thought this had got pulled, should've bought it back for Genki!

indeed ben, another class animal whose principal target became a showery watery mess of an effort on this rancid overwatered track.

Couldn't have put it better myself :D

is he watering yet?

Had a bit of rain today, latest is

Course Ascot
Next Race n/a
Report Date Wednesday 5th August 2009; 14:00
Going Good to Firm (Firm in places)
GoingStick Overall 10.7, Straight 10.8, Round 10.5 (at 9am)
Additional Information

Firm in places at 10.8 doesnt sound right for Ascots straight course, not of any interest as i wont be having a bet there this weekend

me neither zil

wonder if the message is getting through

FO stickels

........................,--~*"¯. . . . . . . . . ¯""*~-,,.........................
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......../::::_,,,_ : : : :~ . . . . . : | . . O . .| . . . . . . . . .. . . ,""-,\................
........|:,-": : : :"-, : : : . ',. . . . ."-,,__,,-" ." . . . . . . . . . . . ."",-'\...............
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.....................,-':::;;;;;;;;;;;;;; ) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . : : ' , - \..........
..................,-':::;;;;;;;;;;_,,,--" : . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . : : , ' , ',' |..........
.............,,~"_,,--~~**"¯- - " . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . : : : :, , ",", \................
.........,-"¯:¯¯:::::_, ; : : : : : . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . : : : : , ' ,' ," , . \..............
........."---~~*""¯/ : : : : : : : : : . : : : : : : : . . : : : : : : : ' ," ,', \ , ' . ,\.................
...................../ : : : : : : : : : : : : : . . . . . . . : : : : : :', ," - , ', , ' , ', "-,...........
..................../ : : : : : : : : : . . . . . . . . : : : : : : : : - , ' " - ' , ,- ', , . '-, "-,......
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................./ : ', : : : : : : : : . . . . . . . : : : : : :, : : " , -, ' "" , ", ." ,'," . ', " ', . ."-,
................|:::::, : : : : : : : . . . . . . . : : : : : : : : , . ." ,' - .,, ,' , . .," ", . ." ', ' . .|

vartz, you seem a decent bloke. I'm afraid you have done the equivalent of stumbling across the assassination attempt on Hitler and saying "Hey, what are you guys trying to do to the poor little fella with the moustache?"

I'm not sure how long you've been following the campaigns on here to try and get some level of recognition of the needs of those who fund the sport. Zil's Clerkwatch has been the main one - it's been running for a long time. It's been copied to journalists and to the 'authorities'. Betfair were approached to host ta radio debate with volunteers from each interested party. Nothing has happened, nothing has changed. Stick readings have been faithfully noted and reported; racetimes have been recorded and compared - hundreds of unpaid man hours have gone into it. For nothing.

What is happening with watering/going reports crystallises the impurities that are killing racing as a viable sport. Sit down at a planning meeting with any racecourse board when they list the customers they must please - you will not find 'off-course punters' anywhere on the notepad. Join the same people at a budgeting meeting when raising revenue is discussed and you'll find punters at the top of the page via the Levy.

Stickels, to some extent, is the sacrificial lamb; he is the composite of the Kirkland Tellwrights, Katharine Selfs and others, all of them happy to cultivate a media personality, none willing to take responsibility when their judgement proves wrong.

As has been mentioned, the formal threads have been very civilized. Given the response of 'racing' to such threads/campaigns, I think posters can be forgiven the odd expletive aimed at a representative of an establishment which is, increasingly quickly, suffocating the sport many of us have followed for most of our lives.

If shame is to be cried on anyone, it's the BHA and their apologists. Shame on them all.

Very well said Steeple, totally agree. I'll be honest I've only ever seen vartz that one time and don't remember him before or since, anyone else?

excellent stuff steeple apu

no never ben, he clearly knew/was chris, and caught the name on the thread, and felt the full force!!

Well said Steeple

Just for the doubters amongst people, I know The above poster and the positions he has held in racing which have not been in the lower echelon , yes abuse is not helpful, but is a reaction to the inertia in which they regard their customers. The time is drawing closer in which there will be a point where racing goes along the same point as greyhounds, as a avid racing fan, win or lose personally, it makes no difference, i want to see a healthy sport, ran well, free of corruption and in the fairest way possible, i have come to the conclusion that the BHA and the main trade paper along with Channel 4 are not serving the industry in this way.

I dont pretend to be a big player, but just a lifelong fan who wants to see racing in its best light

As regards Vartz, there may be, and expected in this climate of spin, a few "fifth columnists " appear on these threads, indeed a apologist by the name of corbiewood appears by magic on any bookmaker thread and indeed the joker(circa 2009) will** off any thread attacking the status quo.

Attack them at every opportunity

The media do my head in, they completely ignore what we say. After Ayr someone should have taken it by the scruff of the neck, ATR did to an extent but it wasn't exactly Paxman-esque. The fact a similar thing has happened at Catterick this week shows that British racecourses are not being run properly and something needs to be done about it. Genki's Stewards Cup victory was another chance to reopen the Royal Ascot debate and actually say to Stickles, "Look it's time you held your hands up, the pace angle excuse you came up with is rubbish because Markab led the SC field and with trainer's quotes backing me up I'd suggest the surface was inadequate."
If I see the ground has been watered I pretty much ignore the meeting now because I know it doesn't ride true. It's getting to the point where we need to categorise horses as to if they will go on loose ground, it's not fair on punters, many of whom just rely on the simple one word description they give at the start of the day. We've mentioned on here many times about the root structure at racecourses and I've still not heard anyone in the media challenge Clerks on root structure.

WE ARE WATCHING

you have been warned

LOVE YOU CHRIS :x

Had a great Ascot this year, thanks.

^ lucky guesser alert

:^0

Aye.

Massive profits though,hth.

ffs :^0

Hes certainly done a hatchet job on the straight course for it to be a lower reading than the round one, we will be bleeding watching, dont worry

Check the going by race time analysis. It shows the ground at Ascot on Sunday as FIRM according to all the races' times. He should have put more water on you dullards.

Well his stick must be knackered as it read nearly three points below its peak

breeding idiot please fo ta

nibbledat. Suck it. OK?

Breeding Iriot 30 Sep 18:31


Check the going by race time analysis. It shows the ground at Ascot on Sunday as FIRM according to all the races' times. He should have put more water on you dullards.

Indulge a dullard & tell me why he should have put more water on?
Were there loads of injuries that didn't get reported, or did you believe the stick reading he gave out & did your conkers on the soft ground horses?

The only conkers I did on Sunday were in private and with my missus. I think you are suggesting a bit of pocket talking here but I think that says more about you than me.

Back to the subject....the ground on Sunday at Ascot rode FIRM (according to that independent and non emotional concept - time). Even those wanting good, fast ground surely see that FIRM ground is no good. If you don't agree with that then I guess I know something else about you too! I am sure you agree though.

Hope that explains my point. My reason for being interested has nothing whatsoever to do with punting. Amen.

Care to confirm that the 2 year old you (Jonjo) saw win at Ascot in July and said that would not act on fast ground is indeed Sea Lord?

Breeding Iriot 01 Oct 00:12


The only conkers I did on Sunday were in private and with my missus. I think you are suggesting a bit of pocket talking here but I think that says more about you than me.

As you calling people who disagree with you 'dullards'says about you old son ;-)

Back to the subject....the ground on Sunday at Ascot rode FIRM (according to that independent and non emotional concept - time).

No it didn't, it rode good to firm.
Even those wanting good, fast ground surely see that FIRM ground is no good.
Why? Dont cite injuries, because there are no stats exclusively for flat racing... ;-)

If you don't agree with that then I guess I know something else about you too! I am sure you agree though.

No, I dont agree, & the other thing you now know about me is that I dont blithely accept that firm ground = injuries on the flat...without seeing some evidence, rather like the 'non-emotional concept' you are keen to promote earlier ;-)

Hope that explains my point. My reason for being interested has nothing whatsoever to do with punting. Amen.

Well it would be nice if you explained what your reason IS for being interested in this, because it cannot be horse welfare? ;-)

Care to confirm that the 2 year old you (Jonjo) saw win at Ascot in July and said that would not act on fast ground is indeed Sea Lord?

Happy to do so.
Hope you're not trying to expose my obvious frailties as a race reader there matey, because that's already been done & you could have picked far better examples than this horse who despite running a gallant 2nd on gd/fm (as the clerk told you it was) at Newmarket, last time, was actually running on one of the lowest stick readings( 8.2 I think?) of the season on the Rowley mile & in true Johnston fashion had only just returned to the favoured front running tactics, following the usual 'unexplainable' effort at Haydock (dropped to6f perhaps?) where an overall time just 2secs abovestandard would tell you the going was closer to good than on the soft side......was 'slow' by 4secs when he won on the laughably labelled gd/fm at Ascot & they were strung out like washing...I'd not decide the ground purely on a race time, but you seem to want to?
:-)

comments like "fo stickels" dont really help the cause tbh

Lol at BI for having a go at Jonjo about race reading. Feel free to have your own opinions and then maybe you can criticise others. I like the way you didn't confront the issue on Clerkwatch so you can take the moral high ground due to the abuse dished out to Mr Stickels. If you read the thread you'd see no one actually had a gripe about Stickels' handling of the surface last week but confidence was swayed before racing by a going stick reading a long way below what is usually termed good to firm for Ascot. Given past history (mysterious changing draw bias for example) punter's faith in the track has wavered. I also have a quote from Chris stating that the ground wasn't as firm as Royal Ascot, despite the times being slower and he also stated it was good to firm and not firm as you seem to think so at least get your facts right.

Ben - sorry, I couldn't even begin to be bothered to read "clerkwatch" - life is too short. So you are off piste with your analysis.

Jonjo - bravo and appreciate your defence. We can agree to disagree, I hope.

You'll have to take my word for it that my disappointment with the firm ground had nothing to do with punting, it was in relation to a much more expensive hobby! Indeed, my nap of the day was Record Breaker for all the obvious reasons.

A masterpiece of aftertiming there m8 :^0

Do you ever have any naps b4 the race ?? :^0

Julius, calm down. Not relevant but thanks for assisting.

No probs BreedingIriot.
It's all about opinions.

If you read the thread you'd see

I assumed you hadn't tbh.

.

How apt ;)..in fact this was a good thread imo,plenty of juicy debate on here :^0

proper seethefest from AR on this thread :^0

threw in a few nuggets to get some seeth overdrive going, miss the aul codger :(

he ain't far away Plat ydc ;)

We are watchin you

Nibber [;)]

Academic Rambler     24 Jul 09 14:44 
vartz,

thanks for that totally cringeworthy input

now you can FO too

Quality thread this,great read and funny

ASCOT SET TO WATER

Officials at Ascot are likely to turn on the taps over the weekend ahead of the Royal meeting.

Clerk of the course Chris Stickels is delighted with the state of the going at the moment, but he feels some watering is needed as he is keen to start the fixture on no worse than good to firm ground.

"The track is in good shape at the moment. The going is good, good to firm in places," he said.

"It's been strange this week because we were forecast an awful lot of rain and haven't received it. The last rain we did have was Tuesday morning. We had 14 millimetres overnight Monday into Tuesday, but despite rain being forecast every day, we haven't had any since.

"There's been a lot of rain to the south of us, but we've only had a few spits and spots and nothing really. I would have liked to have seen a bit of rain to be honest. This ground will now start to dry up a bit. I can see us putting a bit of water on over the weekend to hold it where it is.

"The aim is to start the meeting on good to firm to good ground and we need to apply a bit of water in order to achieve that."

The forecast for the five days of the meeting itself is pretty settled.

"The long-range forecast for next week does keep changing a little bit," Stickels told At The Races.

"Now I think it's going to remain mainly dry. There is an outside chance of a shower. There is certainly a chance of a shower on Monday but the forecast has been changeable and it wouldn't worry us if we had an odd shower during the week.

"It could be breezy and the maximum temperatures at the beginning of the week about 18C to 20C. It's due to warm up for the last couple of days of the meeting, Friday and Saturday, but we are not talking really hot, about 22C and 23C. It should be largely dry but quite breezy."



fyi

Has he done a Kirkie?

Hope this thread doesn't need using tomoz,but i fear the worst

Ascot ground watered after day of records

BY GRAHAM DENCH 6:42PM 16 JUN 2010

ASCOT was watered on Wednesday evening with the aim of producing ground "somewhere between what we had on day one and day two", according to clerk of the course Chris Stickels.

Bright sunshine and a fresh wind saw the going change to good to firm, good in places before racing on Wednesday, from good, and there were course records in the Jersey Stakes, the Hunt Cup and the Queen Mary.

The wind was from behind in the straight, which was clearly a factor, and it must be remembered that the new track is still in its infancy, having reopened only in 2005.

Stickels, who reported 3mm of evapotranspiration on Tuesday and "probably a little more" yesterday, said: "Thewind was clearly a factor in the records and the jockeys weren't complaining.

"I'm going to put 6mm on the straight course tonight and 4mm on the round course. That should take us back to either good, good to firm in places or good to firm, good in places - somewhere between what we had on Tuesday and today."

He expects Thursday's weather to be "similar, but with slightly less wind".

Plenty of watering to be done on that far rail I think for Stickells - the watering can will be out already.

Nothing changes with this idiot,even now he's watering when rain is forecast

The going will be good for day one of Royal Ascot and Chris Stickels, the Ascot clerk of the course, said: "There is the chance of a shower before racing but hopefully we won't get too much. It should be warm after that and the ground is good."

Sums up the bloke - he is now willing no more rain hits the course given he has over-watered the track already.

exactly johnny

Ascot Racecourse ‏@AscotInsider 6m
#RoyalAscot Goingstick reading as at 8.30am: Standside 8.9, Centre 9.0, Farside 9.1, Round 8.3


will he be able to keep the hosepipe  away if we don't get anymore rain !

he fecking better turnip mate

we'll see

Nearside yest, farside today - obv went to level it up with a bit of water last night

how are you supposed to punt? ffs, the near side had no chance today

what will it be tomoz?

Its fkin impossible, they can say there was nothin done but a blind person can tell they tried to level up the bias last night with water and made a balls of it! Was completely reversed today

no rain so far

Ascot Racecourse ‏@AscotInsider 49s
#RoyalAscot Goingstick readings as at 8.30am: Standside 9.8, Centre 10.1, Farside 10.1, Round 9.3


we have proper fast ground,lets keep it that way

Today we have flat racing as it should be,run on FAST ground #trackrecords #speed

He put 4mm on last night and its now raining

Mark Johnston Racing ‏@MJR_Middleham 4m
Rain on top of watered ground at Ascot. Why, oh why, do they do it?