**2,000 Guineas Discussion Thread**

[pre]DDDDDDDDDDDDDD88DD8DD88DDDD8DD8DDNDDDDD8888DDNDD8DDDDDDDDD8DDDDDDDDDNNDDD8DDDDDDDDDDD88DDDD8888D888888DD8888888888D8888D
DDDDDDDD8DDDDD88DD8DD88D888DDDDDD8DDDDDD888DDDDD8DD8D8DD8DDD8O8D88DDDD8888888D8DD8D888D8D8D888888888888DD8OO88888888DDDD
DD8DDNDDDDDDDDDDDDDNDDDD8DDDDDDDDDDDDDD8888D8DD8888888888888888D8D8D888DD888OO888O888O88OD88O888888888888888O8888D888DDD
DDDDDDDDDD8DD888888D888D8888DDDDDD8DDDD88888D8D8D88DD888O88DD88DDDDDDDD8D8888D8O8OO88888O8O8OOO8D888888888888D888D8D8ODN
DD8DDD88DDDDDDD88D8D88888888DDDND88888D8888D8D888888888D8888D8D88DDD8D8D888OD8888Z88888OOO8O8OOOOO88888888888888888888DD
DNDDDDDD8DDDDD8D8DD88O88O8O8DD888D8D888888O8OO8888O8888888888D8DD88DD8888D8O88ZO88888OOOOZO8OZZOOOO8O888O88888888888888D
DDNDDD8DDDDDDD888D8888O8888DDD88DD8DDDD8O8O8O888888ODD8D888DDND8NND88DD8D888D88D8DD88OO88O888OOO88888888OOO88888888D8DDD
DDDDDD8D8D8DDD88D88O8O8O8888DDDDDD88D8888O888888888888D8NO$==??I+?+=7OI,~=?I:~,$788DDDD8OO8888OOOO88888888O8O88DD888DDDD
8DDDDD8D88DD888888OO8OOO88888DD8DD888O8O88OOO888888O8DIZ~~I$O88N?7888D$ZO:DOO+==,+,:D8D88O8O888O8OOO888O8888888D88DDD8DN
DDDDDD88DDDDDD88OOOO8OOOO8888888DD888OOOOOOOO8888D88OD,,=788O7Z78+8O888ZOOO$Z7$$?+=~=ID8O8OO88OOO8O888OO88OO8O888888DDDD
DNNDDDDDD8DD888888O8888888D8D8DDDD8888O8O88O88888DN$8:+??II8O$D8$D7DDDDDO8DD8OOZ?$II=,Z88D8O8888O8888888OOO8OD8DDDDD8DDD
DNDDD8888D8888O888O888O8D888D8DD88888O88O8888D8D8N~+++?88Z8DND8DZDNDDDD88D888DNDN8DII?:ODD888O8OO88O888OO88888D8DDDDD8DD
DDDD88D8D88D8888888OO888888DDD8888888OO8O88888DD+,ZZD8OZZ888888O8DDDD8888D8OOO8DZ7DD$I=~$888D8OO8D88888OO88O8DDDDD8DDDDN
DDDDDDD88888O888888OO8OOO88DD8D8888888O88O8888D=,~O7I?=,8D8O8D8Z8ND88OZ7???7$+$ODNDO$$I+?$8D8O8888888OOO8888DD88DDDDDDDD
DDDDDD8DDD88O8O888OOOOOOO888DDD8O8888OOOZO8O88:,O~$7O?DD8OD8OOD8D887?I?+?+~,..~=78OZ$?7=:+OD888O88888888O8D88888D8D8DD8D
DNDDDDD88D888888888OZZOOOO8DD88888888OOOOOOO87:I+8Z8?D88OOOOZZZ$$7IIIII?I7++~:.:~IO8$77$+==$8O8888D8888O888888D8888DDDDD
ND8D8DD88888888ODOOOOOOOO888D8D888O88OOZOOO88+,D877+7I$?=~=+??????IIIIIIII7II+:::IO88OOODI~+88D88888888888DZO88888DDO8DD
DDDDD888D88O8O8888O=777O88DD88DOO888Z8O8O888O~.ZOOO=~,,~=+?I??+++++???I7I77I77+==IO88DND8DI=~D8D88DO88D8888O888D8D8DDDDD
DMNDDD8D8888O88OOO~=7$IIO88DD888OOOOO8OOO88OZ~:+N8=..,+????++++?++++???I?II7$$7?+?8D8DDDD88?==D88DD88D88DDDOOZODO888DD8D
NMDDDD8D88OOO8888I~=$ZII888DD8O8O88888O88O88Z~=$DZ,.,+II????+====+++???IIII7$$I++=7DDDDDD$I~+=7D8D88888888888O8888DDD8DD
DDDDDDDD8O88O88OZ~:+77+?OO88D88DO888O8OO88888~IN8=..~???????+==++++????????I7$7I=++8NDDDDDDZ,+:?D8D88D88D8888O8D8DDDD8DD
NNDD8ND8O888OO8OZ~~=$7??88D8D888O888OO8O88888~$D$+.,~I??+??+++?++?+?+I?+???7IZ$$+===?ODDNNDD$++~~ODD888DDDD88D8D8DDDDDDD
NDNNNNDD88888D88Z:~+7$??O8DO888O888O888O8888Z=?$D?:~II???+?+=++++++++++?????I$O+=~:~=$ZODDDDOZ8~=IDD8888DDD8888DDDD8DDDD
NDNDDD8DO8OO8D8OO~~=I7++ZDDDD8DOOD8D8888888D8=?ONZ++I7I?II?++++?+?+++?++++ODDND8D?,:~?ZDODDN8Z78D+7ODDDDDDD88888888DDDDN
NDDDDDDD888OO888O~~=II==ZD88DO8OO888888888DD8~88ND??III????+?+?+???+II7DNNND7?7I$8Z7+~IODNMN887IDD$$8DDDDNDO8DDD8DDDNDDD
NNDDDDD8888O8888O~~~7I=+Z8DDD888O8O8OO8888D88=88D8I=+?II??I?+I?+++=+~NDNI+~~:~?77O8Z$++?DNNNN7Z+$D8Z$8N88DD8DDDDDDDDDDDD
NNDDDDD888O88888O~~=7$?+ZDDDD8888D8D888D888DN=ZNDO8=,+~II?7I?+~==~==+?IIDMMMMMNDND8O$=~=ODNNNMDO+D8D7DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
NDDDDDDD88O8DD888~==77?+$8DD8D888D88O888DDD8MIODDD8?,O8DDNMN8====~==?O8D8ZODM$I8N7$IZZ=?ZDND8D8ND+ZZ8ZDDDNNDDDDD8D88N8DD
NNDDDDDN8D8888888~~+7I?=788DDDD8DD88O888888DD7Z8NDD$=O7+~~~?DMMZ~=+?88OZ7IZI$ZZO?~+IZOO?$ONN88MNMN8I7ZNDDNNDDDD8DDD8DDN8
NDDDNDDN8DD88D88Z~~II?=~788D8D88888888DDDDD8ND+7DNNN=7I+OMMMMMND8+??OOOOZIIII$~~=+?7$O8OZODND$NNNNNM7$ZODNDNDDDDDDDDDNDD
MNNDNDNN8DDD8DD88~=?II++I8DND8DD88888O88O8DDD$+~8ND8I$$DMD,8O7I8I?~+$OOZI?====+=+?Z$ZONDZZNNNNDNNNNNN?7$ONNDDDD88DDDDDNN
NDNDDDND8DDDDDDD8=~=IIZII8DNND88888DD888DD88D+?=DNDNO+I87I$$IZO,++:+?OOZ$?++?+???7ZZO8ND8DMNNNDDNNNNND778NDNNDDNDDDNDNDD
MNNNDDNDDND8D88D8~~=?$7I?8D8NDDDDD8D88888DDDN?+?NNDNM=?+=?I7?==+?+?~?ZOOO?+++???I7ZZZDDMDOODNNNNNNNDNN$7DODNDDDDNDD8DDDD
MNNDNNNNNDDDDD8D8~~~I$$I?8DDDNDDD88DDD88888DN+?ZMNDNN7?~~~??++??777+?788O8I++???7$$ZO8DDDNDDNNNNNNNDNN8ZDD$DNN8NNDDNDDDD
NNNNNNNDDDOZ+=?7Z~~~?$$II8NZ?$$$ND8D88DD8DDDD+$DNMND88III==++?I7$III?I88OZ8D7I7I7$OO8DNDNNNNNNNNNNNN$MNO8DN$DNDNNDNDDNNN
NNNNNNNNN8?~=?I??:~~?$$I?8?7Z$$$?O88DDD8ODDD8$ZDNMDN$OO7III?+?I$Z777??$88OO8O777ZOO8DDNDNNNDMNNNMNN8OONNDDNN88DNNDDDDNNN
NNNNNMNNDZ~~=????=~~+$$I?ZOOO$$7??8DDD88DDDDDO88NNDDMONO$Z777$ZO8=7$~?I8$88OZZ7$ZZOODDDNNNNNDMMNNNNDND8NNDNNNDO8NDDDDNNN
NMNNNNN88+===??+?=~~=$$7?7OOZ7$7?IZZ7=Z8888DDZODDODDDMMDOZ$Z$O88??8N$Z88DD8OOZZ$ZZOODDDNNNNDMNNNNNNNN8DNNNNNNND8NNDNDNNN
NNNNNNND$===+????~~~=7$$?IZOI77$I?O7$I+?88DDDNO8NDD8NMMMD8Z$ZZZI7I?7ZZNNMNDDDDDDD888DDDNNNNNNNNNNNNNNDDNNNDNNNDDNNNDNDNN
MMNNDNND====+?++=~~~=7$$7?77+?$7I7ZI7I??$8NNDNO88DDNNNMMND8OZ$Z77$ZO8N8ONNDD8DNNNN8DDNDDNNNNNNMNNNNNNNDNNNDDDNDNNDDDDDNN
MNNN8N?+=~==+???~=~=+7$$$$7+=?777$7?+II?+ONNN$ODDD8DDNMMNND8OZ$OO8O88NN88ZZOO8DDDNDNDDNDNNNNNNNNNNNMNNNNNDDNNDNNDDNNNDDN
MNDN==++7==~++??=~==?7$$$$I==777$$7++7$7??NNNDDDD8NNNNNNNNNDNOO8NDZ$$OOOOO8OZZ$OO8DNDDDNNMNNNNDDDDNNMNNMNDDDDDNNNDDNDDND
MM?==++I$===+??++~==?$$$$Z?+?+Z$ZZ$77ZZ$7?8MM8NND8NNNNNNMMNNNDDNN8ZZZ7I?7?ZOO$$$OODDNNDDNNNNNNNNNNNNNNMMNNNNDDNNNDDDDNNN
NM~=+?I$Z===?777I+++I$ZOOO$7$ZZZOO88ZOOO$I?NMDN8DDDDNDMNNMN8NNDDO$7IZ$7I7III7$$OO8DNDNNNNMMNDNDDDNNMMMNNNNNNDDNNNNNNNNNN
MN=+=+I$77==?77777IIIZOOO$$$OZ$Z8888OO8OO$??MM8DDDNNNNNMNNNN8NND8$Z$$7$ZZ8N88888NDNNDNNNNNNNDDDDNMNNMNMNNNNNDDNNNNNDNNND
MNN~=+7$ZZ++?I7I77I+?$OOZ$$$ZOZO8888OO88OOI?NNDNNDNNNNNNNNNNNNNNDOOZ88D88888DDDDDDNDNMNNNNNNDDDNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNND
NNN8=++I$$7+??II7Z$7?IOOO$$$ZOZO8888OOOO8O$IDNDNDNNNNNNNMNMNNNNND88DD88DO888OODDDDNNNNNNNDDDDDDNDNNNNNNNNMD8NNNNNDDNNNND
MNNN$==?I77????I$7$$I?ZOO$$ZZOZZ888OOOO888ZIINNMNNNNNNMMNNMMNNNNNDND8888ZZOO8ZDDDNNDMNNNND888DDDDNNNNNMNNNNNNNNNMNNNNNMD
MMNNDI==+?7=++??$$$77?IZO$$7ZOOZ88OOO88888O7IMNMNNMNNMMMMMNMNMMMMNNDDDD8$ZZOO8DDNNNNNMNND8O8D88DDNNNNNNNNNNNDMNMNNNNNNNN
MMNNND~==???+?+?7$$$7??IOZ77ZZOZ8888888888O$?DMMNNMNMMNMMMNNMMMMNNNNN88OOO8O8DDNNNNNNND888OO88DDDNNNNNMNNNNNNNNNMNNNNNNN
MMNNNNO==+?I?++?77$77I+?$O$$$ZOZ888OOOO888OZIZMNNMNMMMMNMMNMMMMMMMDNDD888DD888DNDNNNND88D88D888DDDNNNNMNNNNNDNNDMMNNNNNN
NMNNDNND?+=+I???II777I??IOO77$O888OO8888888OI7MNMNNMNMNMMMMNMMMMMMNDND8ONDN8DDNNNNNNDO88O88O888DNDNNNNMMMNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN
MMMNNMNNND??++?IIII777I??ZO87$OO8OOOO888888O7INMNNMMMMNMMMMNNMNNMM8DDDNNNNNNDNNNNNNO8OOOO8O88DDN8DNMNNNNMNNNNDMNNNNNMMNN
MMNMNMMMNMMNO???+?IIIII?+$OO7IOZ8OZOO888888O$7MMMNNMMNNMMMDNNNNOMDD8DDNDDNDOO8888OZOZZOOOO888DDD8NMNNNNMNNNMNDNNMNNMNNMM
MMMNNMNMMMMNMNDI++?IIII?+?ZO$7OOOOOOZ8888888$IMNNNMMMMNNNMN8NMDZMDD8ZZZOZZOOZO88O8ZZZOOO888ODD88DNNNNMNNNNNNNNNMNMNNMMMM
MMMMMMMMMMNMNNMMN$?+????++?ZO7OOOOZOOOO8888O$$MMNNNNMMNMMNNN$M8Z$MDDOOZZ$$ZZOO8OZZ$ZZZOZOOO8DO8DNDNNNMNNNNNNNNMNNNNNMNMN
MMMMMMNMNMNNNNNNNMN$++???+?IO$OOOOZZZOOOO88O7$NMMNNNNMMNNNNNOZ8OZ$NOOOZZ$$$ZOO8OZZ$$ZZOOOOO8OZODNNDNNNNNNNNNNNNNMNNNMNNN
MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMNMMM+=+???I$ZZZOZ$$ZZZO88OO$DDNNNNNNNNMNDDDOZIZO?$8ZOZZZ$$Z88OOOZZ$ZOOZZO8O$ODNDDDNNNNDNNMMNNNNNNNNNNNN
MMMMMMMNNNNNMNMNMNNMDNI++?+?$ZZZZ$$$$$ZO88OOZDNNNNNNNNNNNNDDOZZ7IZ+=OZZZZO$$$O8OOZ$$ZZOOO8ZZ8NDNDDNNNNNNNMNNDNMNNNNNNNNN
NMNMMMMMNNMNMMMMMNNND8D+++??7Z$$$$$77$O88OOOONNNNNNMNNNMNND8DOZO7?7$+?O$ZZ$Z$$ZZ$$$ZOOO88$$ZDND8DNNNNMMNNNNNNMMMNNNNMNNN
MNMNNMMMNMNMMMNMNNOND7MO++??I7$7$$77$ZO8OO8ODNNNMNNMNMNMNNDD8O$$$ZII??I?$ZZZZ$$ZZ$ZZZO8O$$8DND8O8NNNNNNNNNMMMNMNNNNNNNNM
MNMNMNNNNNNNNMMNNNN$OZ$N=++??77$$7II7OOOODZONNDNNNNMMMNNNNDDD88Z$Z$Z$7I??I?I7Z888D8ZZO$Z$DDN88Z8NNNNDDNNNNNDNNMMNMMNNNNN
MNNNNNNNNNNMNNNMNDDZ777+Z=???I77IIIIZOOOD$DNNDNMMNNNNMDNNNDNNDDDZ$Z$ZZ77$7777I7777$ZZ$7ODDD8OO8DDNNNNNDNNNNNNNMMNMNNMNNN
NNNNNNNNNNNNDNNMMDDOZ7?$=I$??77III7$$ZO8$ONN8DNNNNMNMNNDNNDDNDD8D8Z$ZZOZZ$$$$7$77Z$$ZZDNDDOOZ8DDNNNMNNNNNDNNNMNNMMMMNMMM
MMMNNNNNNNNDNNMNNDD8$$Z7??IIZI??I777Z8Z$ODD8ONNDNNNNDNNDNNDDDD88DD888Z$ZOZOZZZZZZ$$ZO8N8DOZZODDNNNMNNNNNNNNNNMNNNMNNMMNN
NMNNNNNNNNNDNNNNNMDD8$$ZZ77II+I7$$$7Z$$8DDOODNNNNDNNNDNNNDDDDDD88DDD88O8ZZ$Z$$Z$$ZO888D8OZZDDDDNMMDNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNMMMNN
NNNMNNDNNNNNNNNNNNDDD88$ZZZ$$$77I7$$$ZDDDOO8DNNNNNDNDDNDNNDDDDDDDD8DD8OOZZZZOZ$ZOND88D88ZODD8DNNNNNNNMNNNNNNNNNNNMNNMMNN
NNMMNDNNNNNNNNNNNNND88DO8$OZZ8ZZ$OZZZD8DOO8NDNNNNNNNDDNDDDDNDD8NDD888OZZOZZ8ZZ888DDDD8OZZDDDDNNMMNMNNNNNNMNNNMMMNNNNNNNN
MMNNNNDNNNNNNMMNNNNMN8DD88OZ$Z$ZZ$Z8888Z$DNNMNNNDNDNNNNNDDNDNDDDD888DOO888O8DDD8DD8D8OZODDDDNNNNNMMMNNNNNNNNNMNNNNNNDNNN
DNNNNNMNNNNNMNMNNNMNNND88OZZZZOZODD888ZZ8DDNNNNNNNMNNNNNNDDNDDDDDDDDDD8DDDNDDDDNDD8D8ODDDDNNNNNMMMNMNNNNNNMNNNMNMNNNMNMN
MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMNMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
~~::~MMMMMMM~::~MM::~MMMMMMMMMMMMMMM::ZM?:~MMMMM~:~~:MMMMMMM=:::$MI::DMMMMMMMMMMMMMM::~MN:~MMMMMM:~:~DMMMMMMM~:~~MM:~~MM
:M~~M:MM~M$~MMMMM:MM8:MMMMMMMMMMMMMM:M~:D~:IMM:O:M+:O:MM:MM:8MMMM:MMM~MMMMMMMMMMMMMM:M:::$~M+MO~:ZM~~IMMOZM:~MMMM+=MM~7M
~MMN:=MO~M:~MNM=~~MMO~MMMMMMMMMMMMM=:MINM~N~MM:Z~MMMZ~MM:M8~OMMD:~MMM~MMMMMMMMMMNNMM:MM~M:~~ZM~~:MMMM~MM~$M~:MMMM:DMM~DM
~MMMMI~NM~MM::NM~~MM~MMMMMMMMMMMMMM=:MMM::MM~ZM~:MMMMO~ZM$OMI~ZMZ:MM:OMMMMMMMMMMMMM8:NMN$:MM+~MM~MMMMM:~MM?M8:?NM:MM~~MM
MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
GlassGiant.com [pre]

:^0 good start Gunny

A pleasing start to the thread.

Only bets I've had are Azmeel and Workforce both from last season. :|

Sorry, Gun - had to be Jesus on a Sunday imo :)

Couldn't name a single flat horse, tbh :|

Had a little on Commissionaire of Gosdens @ silly prices, only won a maiden but @ 200+ worth a few quid

The other one I like is Fencing Master, who ran a cracker on his 2nd start in the Dewhurst.

SNA will be odds on if he turns up, but cannot be 100% confident he will turn up.

.

Do like Fencing Master to,but Derby imo.

You really think he'll be odds on TV ?

THink they're gunna be all out for him to win the Guineas/Derby double after what happened last season.....

Likes of Canford and Arcano will make it interesting

Arcano will p1ss up imo (*possible uninformed/drunken claim imo) :0

not interested

Whats going to beat him??

2nd favs a sprinter isnt he.

Awzaan & Arcano only raced over 6F, need to prove they stay.

Elusive Pimp Derby shirley.

Workforce could be an e/w @ 20/1 & Alf Nobel on his work earlier looked well @ 33/1.

Plenty of water to flow yet though.

Nib :^0

Why you not interested??

will start getting interested once punchestown is out of the way :)

Depends if O'Brien goes into hype mode, could be the best they've ever had with the speed to win the July Cup ;\

When is the Guineas iyo ?;|

first weekend in May?

TD

Or he stays real well and could win the Leger :^0

1st may

steinbeck snaffle job

non runner myth

If Steinbeck turns up Im never betting again, sick of all this guff hes out/in.

*sorry and wins

non-runner? like binocular, solwhit, punchestowns and forpaddy were non-runners?

dont believe a word of it ;)

good luck mp B-)

anyone know what the Godolphin horses are for the 2000?

Kingsfort shortest in the betting, but haven't heard anything recent ...

Godolphin dont get going till June/July do they??

Not usually TV

I'm on Canford Cliffs as well (nicked 16s couple of minutes after the Coventry), think he lines up in the Greenham as a prep.

I think people are writing off Canford Cliffs a bit too easy saying he's just a sprinter.His Coventry win with Xtension way back is top form and connections feel he'll stay the trip.They thought that he was wrong in France later and yet was only just beat by Arcano and Special Duty who a lot of people think is home and hosed for the 1000G.Of course there is a doubt about the trip but it is factored into the price.I think he will give SNA most to do.

Good point TMB, there was a definite lack of confidence going into the Morny which was strange after Ascot. I think he's got a good chance.

KINGSFORT ONLY HAS TO TURN UP I AM TOLD WHAT MORE CAN I SAY

TMB: To be fair, though, Xtension's performance in the Coventry (where he finished ahead of the disappointing Rakaan, Moran Gra and Treadwell) was nowhere near as good as his later efforts over 7f (most notably his third in the Dewhurst). Make no mistake, I'm a fan of Canford Cliffs and he was very impressive at Ascot (where he landed me a nice ante-post touch at 16/1), but that Coventry form is not as strong as it looked at the time (the 3rd, 4th and 5th are the best guide to the level of the form) and it's quite possible that his Prix Morny third is as good as he is, regardless of what the connections say. As far as his stamina is concerned, I cannot believe that a son of Tagula will ever win the Guineas: the overwhelming majority of his best offspring are 6-7f horses and CC fits that mould perfectly. He may well win the Greenham, but he'll probably be running on empty in the final furlong of the Guineas and he's likely to be swallowed up by the true milers/stayers like St Nicholas Abbey.

Im on Pounced £100 e/w at 50/1. Got that after his Ascot debut but before his Newbury maiden win and subsequent Group race runs.

I think that is the way it will pan out James.Have just been reading my racehorses annual and there is some hope that CC can stay the trip on his dams side.I also think that he looked a horse with tremendous scope although i do concede that I have not seen him in the flesh.I asked SOF about SNA's confirmation and he gave the horse a glowing reference.Paddock inspection a must for me on the day of the race.Have been the last few years and most of the winners have looked streets ahead in the ring.

I remember you saying Lozzy that Pounced was Gosden's best juvenile and he certainly did the business for you in the States.

Is Pounced not being aimed at the Kentucky Derby Lozzy ?

james, I understand you doubting Tagula can produce a guineas winner but there is more stamina on the dams side and R.Hannon jnr has said CC will "definitely" get the mile. I think he's got a pretty good shot.
SNA may well use the guineas as a prep for the derby, he'll come around 4th, Aiden will say how pleased he was with the run and anyone who's backed him will be tearing their hair out.

I cannot think of another horse who has shown blinding acceleration outside CC and SNA in last years 2yo races.I know you need to stay but you must have the necessary speed as well.

yes, I just think SNA is terrible value for the reasons outlined above. I'm also on Awzaan who I think has shown a really good cruising speed. As always, too much guesswork involved to be too confident.

Richie-O, re: the stamina on the dam's side of Canford Cliffs' pedigree. His dam Mrs Marsh is an unraced half-sister to Baltic Dip (who, although by Derby winner Benny The Dip, was a 6f winner and seemed not to stay 7f+ when tried at longer trips), Pina Colada (a 5f winner by Sabrehill, who later raced over longer trips in the US), Trois (a multiple 9f winner on the all-weather) and Triple Sharp (a 10f winner on the flat and winning hurdler). Mrs Marsh's dam Drei (by Lyphard out of Triple Tipple) was a once-raced maiden (finishing 4th in a mile maiden at Yarmouth, where she made no progress in the last 2f). I think it's fair to say that the dam's side of CC's pedigree is 'mixed', to say the least: it throws up a mixture of sprint winners and 9-10f horses. CC's half-brother Zeeran (by Barathea) was such a modest performer that it's anybody's guess what his 'trip' may have been, but there was nothing in his seven racecourse appearances to suggest that he would have stayed a mile. CC shapes like a typical son of Tagula - he has shown loads of speed as a juvenile, may just about get 7f, but is highly unlikely (in my opinion) to last a mile in Group 1 company, despite the connections' protestations to the contrary. I will be looking to lay him if he shortens in the betting after the Greenham.

SNA has exactly what I look for in a Guineas winner - a great cruising speed, a devastating turn of foot and sheer class.

Yes but SNA is 5/2, are you backing him at those odds? Re CC, I understand doubting he'll get a mile at Grp1 but I don't think you can say with any certainty that he won't. And you have to treat connections comments with caution, I agree. Anyway, good luck james, nice debating with you

I must admit that I'm in the CC camp. I got the big prices for the Coventry after his debut (not aftertiming as I posted that at the time), and after the Coventry I took the 16s from Joe C. I lost in France but the race has turned out to be better than I thought at the time so hopes rekindled. I'm torn though as I think jamesp may well be right. CC may stay the mile but well enough at Group 1 level? Will he be able to quicken or have nothing left to do so? Still I nailed my colours to the mast all those months ago so despite the doubts I shall stand my bet and not look to lay off but rather look for an alternative nearer the time as a saver.

And of course the Morny form augurs well for SD in the 1000 :-)

Had a little bit on Classic Calori, was told he was aiming for this at the beginning of the season, Saturdays win wasn't too bad with the traffic he had to come through. 130's still seems a little bit of value.

Cape Blanco for me.
SNA is a lay.
Will give reasons later.

Why not give reasons now Allstar?

yyyyyyyyyyhyhhhhhhhyssssssoooossoso+++oosssssssssso+/:---::/osoosoossssssssssssssssssssoo+ooossyyyyy
yyyyyyyyyhyyyhhhhhysssoo+:.````...` ``.-:+oossssso+:-..--/+++oo+ooossssssssssssssssssssooossssssssyy
yyyyyyyyyyyyyhhhhhs+:--....-:///++//::-:-.:+ooooo+:-...-:/oooo++/+ossssssssssssssssssso++osssssssssy
yyyysssyyyyyyyhho:.`.---::///++/+osssshy/:`.-+oo+:-...-:/+oooo+/++ooooooooooooooooooooo++oosssssssss
yssssssyyyyyys:.`.::/+oosoosoooos++ooohys++--.-/:-...-:/+ooooooo++oooooooooo+/----..------://+osssss
sssssssyyyys/``./ossyhhhhddhyssoooo+/os+sss++/-.``````.--::/+oooo++oooooo+/::./::-::--///:://--/+oss
sssssssyyyo:``-+yyhhhdmmmmmdhyo+///oyyosydhyo/-.`````...-`..-......--::/:--/ooso++/:::::/+//:::..:+o
ssssssssso:--:+ssssyddddmmmmdys+oosyhyhdddhho:--:-:::::::///:--.--.`````.-/oyy++++sssosyyss+o++/--.-
ssssssso/:---://+osssyhdmmdddyo+osyhmddmmmhs++//:::///ooooo+////:/:--:::/+ohmhys+ooososdmdhsyyyso//:
ssssssso+/:-:/++++ooyhmmmdhhyysoshddmNNNmys+/://+://::+//+++/+/++++++++o++ydNhyo++///osyhdddyhyyso/:
sssssso++//::/++++syhdddddhyssoyddNNNMmys+///:--/:--------::+:+/+++sosssyshNNmyoyo+osyyyhddmdhyyys::
ssssssoo++++++oossyyhdmddhyo++shhmNMMmy++/-:-..-:--....----::::////+osyhdddmNNmdhysdmmdmmmmmdhyhyo/+
yssssssssooos+ooosyyhddddysssssshmNMmo+/-......---:-.`.:-.--::::/:/+ssydmmddmmNddhhdNmmmmmmmdddmhs+/
ysssssssssyy++++ooosyhhys++ooooshdNmo/::``...-----:-.....---::/:::++oysyymNNNNNmddhhyyyhdddhhhdhsoo+
ysssyysssys/::///+oyyssss++++ooshdho/:-`..---::::--:--::::-::-:-://+oo+sysmNNNmmdhsooosyhddhhyyso+o+
oooyyssss+///:--:++oosyyso++oossyho:-.`..-::/::-:////:/:+::::::::+/o++oyyhdNMNNdyso+///osyhhhhhsys+/
oosysssyyyysoo++/:/+ssyysooooossys:--.-//:://---::::/+////+//:/:-/++++ooyddmNmmdysso+/:/+syyhhysooo:
ddysssyymdo+//+/:--/++oo+++/+++++:-/:::///::-....--://///++++o++++++//o+syyhddhysooo+o++shhyssyys+::
myssossyNhyyyhy+:.`-:::::::/++/:--:-oyso:::--.:+soo/::////+ossysoo+o+/o+osyyyyyssooo+/++shdhyoso+/::
dyssssshNMMNNmdho:` `.:/://+++:-.--.hmmo--::+sso+oyhs+/+++ossssso+++o+os/osysyhdysoso//+yhyhyo++://+
sooooosmMMMMMNmhs+:. `.-/+++/--..--+so/--:o+++//+oshdoosssyysyysyssoo/soo+ssyyhyoooo/:+hhyoo+///++o
/+oooohmMMMMMMMmhyo/-` `.::--..:::++oo:-/+oooosssssyysyysooydNNms+os++oo+osyyys+/+o+/+ssoo+/:/+ooo
:/ossydmMMMMMMMNmdhs+/:--` ``.--/oossys/:ossyyyyyysssyshyssosyddho+/ooo++++osssoo///++/+//+/+/+oooo
/+syhdmNNMMMMMMMMmdyyssoo/:-..`.-/soso+:.syhdmdddhhyyhysdhhhdyysoo++++so++++ossooyo://o//+++oooooooo
+oyhddmNNNNhmMMMMmdhhyyysso+/:--:/+sso. :dmNNNNNmmmmmhsoyhddhyyyssso+oo+++o++oooymhs/+/++++ooooooooo
oshddmmNNNyoohNNdhhhyyyssssoo/:::/+so/.:dNMMMMMMMMMNmyso++ohhdhhhyssooooo+oooo+sdddd+o+/++oooooooooo
shddmmNNNdooooyhhhyssssso+++++//:/+++++sdmNMMMMMMMMNms+////oyddhhyos+oosoo+ooooddhhhyys+/ooooooooooo
yhddmmNNmsoooooosyyssooo+/:--:/+/:/o+++shdhdMMNMNNNmm+//+osyyyhhhsssosssooooosdmdddhdhhy+++ooooooooo
hhhddmmNhooooooooosysoo++/:--.-----/+++sooydNNNNmmmmyshdhssssyhyysyssssssssosmdddddddmhyho++oooooooo
hhhdmmmmo+ooooooo+ossooo++//:-......:+++o:/shdddddhysymNmyssyhhyhhhyyssssysydmmdmmmdmddhhyy+oooooooo
dhddhyhh+oooo++++oyhysso++++:--``...`:+oo+/+osyyyyysydmmhyyyhdhhhhhyysyyyydmmNNdmddddddhdhhs+oooooo+
dhho+:/++ooooo++oymmdysoo++++/:--.````-/osyoossyyyhdmmdhyhhhhdhddhyyyyhhdNNNNmmdmmdhdhddddhho+oooo++
ddyoossoooooooooyddmNNdysoo+++/:-..``..-:/osyyyyhdmmddddhhddddhhhdhhhmNNNNNNNmmmdmdddddddddds+ooo+++
dhoshhhsooooooohdhddmNMmhyssoo++:--....-.:/+osyydddmmmmmmddmmmmmmmmNNNNmmmmmmmmmddmmmdddmmmdhoooooo+
osdmNmdssoo++oyhhhhhmNNMmhyyssoo//:---.-/osyhhddNNNNNNMMMNNMMMNNNNNNmmmmmmmmmmdddmmmmddddddddsssooo+
+ydNNdy+//+osyysyssyhmNNyyhhyyso+//:--/shhdmmmmNNNNNNNNNNNNmNNNNmNmmdmddddmmmmmdmdmdmmmmmdmdhyssoooo
-:/osso:--/ohdhsssyhdNmyooshhyyso++//+oyyhmNmmNmmddmmmmNmmmmmmmmmmdmmmdmmdmmmmNmmmNmmmNmmmmddyssoooo
...```````-+shysssydddyoooooyyyysso++shhdhddmMMNNNddmmdmdddmmdmmmdmmdddmNmNmmmNmmmmmmmmdmmmmdyssoooo

Not saying he'll be good enough but INLER very interesting for 2010.

Not sure TD Gunner. I am hoping obviously that he turns up for Newmarket, but he will need fast ground.

Nice form boost there down B-)

B-)

canford cliffs will need cut in the ground if he is to win a guineas it

will be at the curragh imo .

the fast ground done for him in the prix morny.

Who gives a fcuk ?:|

plenty on here.

the lay preacher 28 Mar 15:38
canford cliffs will need cut in the ground if he is to win a guineas it

will be at the curragh imo .

the fast ground done for him in the prix morny.




Deep Impact 28 Mar 15:39
Who gives a fcuk

Canford Cliffs nice orse en all that, but is there a bus he can jump on 2F out??

Wont stay will it??

I dont think he will stay a mile imo Rock City the 2nd.

What you like Prima??

I like SNA cant see what will beat him,at best a place for CC.

Sorry, lads - Classics talk bores me to tears :| Multiple entries, who rides who, gallops reports etc. - tend to deal with the race on the day, tbh as it's impossible to know how horses have progresed from 2 to 3 (unless seen on a racecourse prior to the day). The guesswork, whispers, smoke/mirrors etc. drives me mad & i will try to refrain commenting on Guineas-related thread until the final field is known :)

not sure if it will stay or not but i am sure he needs softish ground.

More for the Derby but any opinions on Zeitoper? Is he being aimed at either race or is he going abroad? Not quoted by many bookies.

Zeitoper is not being aimed at the Guineas, he's bred to be well suited by 10-12 furlongs. No specific plans for this horse at present.

Jan Vermeer still not certain to run in Guineas

BY BRIAN FLEMING 6:07PM 28 MAR 2010

JAN VERMEER, as short as 14-1 for the StanJames.com 2,000 Guineas, is back in light work, but whether he makes it to Newmarket on May 1 is still uncertain according to trainer Aidan O'Brien.

Winner of the Group 1 Criterium International at Saint Cloud in November, Jan Vermeer, who is second favourite behind stablemate St Nicholas Abbey for the Investec Derby, suffered a slight setback which put him on the easy list recently.
"Nothing has changed with Jan Vermeer and we don't know whether he'll make the Guineas," O'Brien said on Sunday. "He's back in light work and only time will tell if he catches up in time."

St Nicholas Abbey is also favourite for the 2,000 Guineasand O'Brien, who confirmed Steinbeck will not run in the season's opening Classic, reported no such problems since he worked after racing at the Curragh last Sunday.

He said: "All is well with St Nicholas Abbey and as I said before Steinbeck won't run in the English Guineas. At this stage we don't know where he'll run next."

Jan Vermeer for the Guineas?

Are they Crazy....can't believe their contemplating it tbh

bluster - they know he will go for Epsom... marketeering!!!

dynasty ;)

I still wouldn't be laying at the odds that others have. They ran RVW in the guineas and derby last season. Who's to say they won't run both SNA and Jan Vermeer in both ?

Richard Hannon firmly believes Canford Cliffs will take all the beating in the StanJames.com 2000 Guineas.

The East Everleigh handler is not fazed by all the talk about ante-post favourite St Nicholas Abbey ahead of the Newmarket Classic in May.

And he reports last summer's Coventry Stakes winner, who has not raced since finishing a close third in the Prix Morny, to be on course to reappear in the Greenham Stakes at Newbury next month.

"He has strengthened up and started to fill his frame, and, more significantly, he is looking much more relaxed than he was last season," he told his website, www.richardhannonracing.tv.

"He has done a couple of proper bits of work and will do another one later in the week, and we could not be happier with him.

"Nothing was able to give him a tow in the Coventry, but we think he will be better when he gets a lead, and, while some professionals are suggesting that he will prove a sprinter, we don't see the Guineas mile being a problem.

"We all think that he is the real deal and the best we have ever had on the place in 40 years.

"We might possibly take him to Kempton for a spin on the Polytrack, but the plan is definitely to go for the Greenham, and then all roads will hopefully lead to Newmarket."

Hannon has both Ryan Moore and Jimmy Fortune on standby should stable jockey Richard Hughes be unsuccessful in his appeal against a suspension that would mean him missing the Guineas.

"If there is any justice Hughesie, who was putting the welfare of King Supreme first at Kempton, will win his appeal, but we won't be losing any sleep about jockeys, and Ryan Moore and Jimmy Fortune have both been down to ride out recently," Hannon remarked.

The trainer also had news of several of his other 2000 entries, Dick Turpin, Lucky General and Carnaby Street, plus the speedy Monsieur Chevalier.

"Dick Turpin has also done very well through the winter," Hannon revealed.

"He was a big two-year-old, so he was always going to improve, and, though we had to take our time with him because of the wet weather, he is going well, and, he, too, could go for the Greenham. It is not ideal running both, but they have different owners, and Newbury is the perfect place to start.

"No decision has been about where to kick off with Lucky General, but Carnaby Street could represent us in the Craven, and he is another who has thrived during the winter.

"It will be tough for Monsieur Chevalier this season, but he proved a real money-spinner last year and I have no doubt that he will win races again this summer.

"The way he runs brings me to think that he could get seven furlongs, which would increase our options, because it is always hard for a three-year-old sprinter to hold his own against the older horses until Royal Ascot time.

The fact that Moore would take the ride is quite significant

moore must ride workforce

He will Grizly as its the winner!

Is it standard practice for a jockey to go down to a yard and ride out a horse he will be running against in a 2000 guineas. I'm not familiar with the goings on at yards ?

I was thinking that Graeme - surely Ryan Moore won't be on Canford Cliffs if Workforce runs

ttt?

Seems to confidence now on betting markets behind Workforce.

xtension on the spaff :)

Wilbertros 31 Mar 18:30
I was thinking that Graeme - surely Ryan Moore won't be on Canford Cliffs if Workforce runs


Money comes in for workforce after Moore tests one of his fancied rivals out. Sneaky dogs that they are.

Given that Dancing David is entered for the Feildon in less than a week and will probably have a near favourites chance does anyone else think its worth a punt on here at 100-1 + and lay back just before the Feildon? Or hold on to a bit until after and hope he wins.